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China's State Council calls for Shenzhen integration with Hong Kong, Macau


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5 hours ago, Redline said:

It basically chose who could run for government office-do you remember?  

What freedom did China take away from the Hong Kong citizens ?

The freedom to choose who would run Hong Kong ? During the British Colonial era, Hong Kong was not a democracy, the people of Hong Kong were never actually given the freedom to vote for who would be their leader. It was a British Empire place, and the British government chose.

Hong Kong had a lot of freedom of religion during the Colonial era. And Hong Kong still does have a lot of freedom of religion. None of the Christian churches in Hong Kong are claiming that their right to praise the Lord Jesus has been reduced since 1997.
And about freedom of speech. Hong Kong's newspapers were not totally uncensored prior to 1997. And today, Hong Kong people can actually say what they want to say, just like prior to 1997.

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17 hours ago, 727Sky said:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2019/08/13/u-s-intelligence-positions-hong-kong-as-proxy-conflict-with-china-thankfully-president-trump-sees-trap/#more-168200

 

When China got Hong Kong back in 1997 Hong Kong produced roughly 25% of China's GDP.. Now it is around 3% so China can take the gloves off without much damage to their total GDP. Anyone who thought China would abide by the agreed rules laid down by the 1997 transfer and let Hong Kong alone until 2047 was very myopic on world affairs and China in particular..

As far as a full blown war over Hong Kong IMO it will not happen so you can basically kiss The past Hong Kong goodbye once the Chinese communist make their move to settle things ... Do you think they will hesitate to kill and disappear hundreds and thousands of residents in Hong Kong ? I don't..

Good news is there will be many new organ donors so the prices should fall for new hearts, Kidneys, and Lungs coming out of China.(sarc)


"When China got Hong Kong back in 1997 Hong Kong produced roughly 25% of China's GDP.. Now it is around 3%".

And this comment is totally true. Prior to 1997, Hong Kong was a gate-way for trade between China and the rest of the world.
Basically, goods made in China were 'exported' to Hong Kong, stored in warehouses and then re-exported to Europe and America. Also, dealers would import goods into Hong Kong from Europe and America, and then re-export the goods to mainland China. And off-course, make a profit from doing this.

We're in a different world today. Goods produced in Shanghai are packed onto ships in Shanghai, and the ships sail directly to America and Europe, Hong Kong's role has been reduced massively. Hong Kong is still a massive financial centre, raising finance (loans, investments,capital) but again, the financial services are supporting or backing business projects in mainland China.

Hong Kong's wealth was built on China, but China needs Hong Kong a lot less, compared to previously. And if Hong Kong does drift away from China (a bit like Britain drifting away from Europe) well, Beijing can easily reduce the flood of Chinese tourists who enter Hong Kong. This really will damage Hong Kong's economy in a serious way.

Who needs who more ? Does Hong Kong need China, more than China needs Hong Kong ? Does Britain need Europe, more than Europe needs Britain ?  ????

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1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Okay, I'ill make you happier with a comment that is not nonsensical.
The men who are turning up in China, to buy body parts for themselves, just about every single one of them are ethnic Chinese. Body parts are never transported out of China. Men turn up in China, get the replacement body part fitted, and then fly out of China.

I think the same happens in India. It probably happens anyplace where the regard for human life doesn't exist but the regard for money, however earned, does.

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On 8/19/2019 at 11:30 AM, thaibeachlovers said:

Did anyone actually believe that China wouldn't renege on that agreement? No wonder anyone with sense is looking to escape to another country.

All made possible by Nixon-Kissinger, especially Kissinger and the man who led Kissinger down the rosy path, J. Stapleton Roy.

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19 hours ago, Morch said:

 

Another country doesn't necessarily imply the UK. As for how people in the UK feel about it - doubt you've got a clue, or that you "quote" is based on anything much. Try harder.

I should think that Hong Kong Chinese people seeking refuge in UK would be welcomed by the British people.The Chinese population of the UK is well liked and respected for their industry.They would add tremendous value being mostly young and well educ ated.

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17 hours ago, Traubert said:

 

So even the western 'China Specialists' appear to have missed the innuendo there because they're still hooked up on 'Communism,' whereas China isn't.

If you mean they're not preoccupied with theoretical Marxism you are correct although it's surprising even now how Marx,Engels and Hegel are widely taught.If you think that Communist Party discipline is not observed, you are wildly mistaken.The rule of the Party is absolute and is tougher than ever under President for Life Xi.

 

On the separate question of whether the Chines Government will clamp down violently there is little doubt Beijing will do so if they consider HK is getting completely out of hand.They know that it will cause intense short term and medium term problems for China (sanctions, Western hostility, reaction in Taiwan etc) especially if there is mass bloodshed.But they are ruthless intelligent people who have learnt the lessons of Tianmen where they took a short term hit of Western fury but steered a course through in the longer term.

 

It must never be forgotten the Chinese leadership is very high calibre though with a feral morality.All this in the context of a regime which has and is taking its people out of poverty on a scale never seen in human history.

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33 minutes ago, jayboy said:

If you mean they're not preoccupied with theoretical Marxism you are correct although it's surprising even now how Marx,Engels and Hegel are widely taught.If you think that Communist Party discipline is not observed, you are wildly mistaken.The rule of the Party is absolute and is tougher than ever under President for Life Xi.

 

On the separate question of whether the Chines Government will clamp down violently there is little doubt Beijing will do so if they consider HK is getting completely out of hand.They know that it will cause intense short term and medium term problems for China (sanctions, Western hostility, reaction in Taiwan etc) especially if there is mass bloodshed.But they are ruthless intelligent people who have learnt the lessons of Tianmen where they took a short term hit of Western fury but steered a course through in the longer term.

 

It must never be forgotten the Chinese leadership is very high calibre though with a feral morality.All this in the context of a regime which has and is taking its people out of poverty on a scale never seen in human history.

it is an authoritarian regime, but seems much softer than the former Eastern bloc. I don't buy the fairy tales of the oppressed Chinese - tens of millions travel outside China every year and go back happily. Compare that to the Eastern bloc defectors. Looks like the majority of Chinese are able to tolerate more or less their regime.

 

The Pearl River conglomerate project was planned long before the Hong Kong protests and the execution is under way. It it supposed to rival or surpass the Silicon Valley in the US. It will be fairly long time when that happens, if at all.

 

The Hong Kong protests are just means and tools to subvert China to prevent it to become the world's top economic power. If the China was not authoritarian but fully capitalist the script would still be more or less the same. As they say, its all about money.

 

 

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6 minutes ago, gearbox said:

it is an authoritarian regime, but seems much softer than the former Eastern bloc. I don't buy the fairy tales of the oppressed Chinese - tens of millions travel outside China every year and go back happily. Compare that to the Eastern bloc defectors. Looks like the majority of Chinese are able to tolerate more or less their regime.

 

The Pearl River conglomerate project was planned long before the Hong Kong protests and the execution is under way. It it supposed to rival or surpass the Silicon Valley in the US. It will be fairly long time when that happens, if at all.

 

The Hong Kong protests are just means and tools to subvert China to prevent it to become the world's top economic power. If the China was not authoritarian but fully capitalist the script would still be more or less the same. As they say, its all about money.

 

 

Not sure this is an adequate response - in fact it is slightly fatuous.The Chinese Government (intelligent and wise leadership) has of course produced the goods while the Eastern Bloc (stupid Stalinist morons) didn't.Furthermore there's a huge and growing middle class in China which is broadly loyal to the ruling Communist Party in Beijing underpinned by economic success and a wide spread nationalism. Essentially Beijing has a Faustian pact with its people, namely that political rights are largely denied on condition the economy continues to grow and living standards increase.I agree that most Chinese go along with this though you are deluded to believe that the many instances of cruel repression are "fairy tales". The problem for the Chinese rulers in addition is that real growth on the basis of the last 20 years is unsustainable.Countless problems ahead.

 

You descend into absurdity when you suggest the events in HK are motivated by an attempt to destabilize Chinese economic progress.Grow up.

 

I don't see why China shouldn't be the world's leading economic power.For centuries it was and the period 1800 - 1980 was just a temporary aberration.

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21 minutes ago, jayboy said:

 The problem for the Chinese rulers in addition is that real growth on the basis of the last 20 years is unsustainable.Countless problems ahead.

 

You descend into absurdity when you suggest the events in HK are motivated by an attempt to destabilize Chinese economic progress.Grow up.

 

I don't see why China shouldn't be the world's leading economic power.For centuries it was and the period 1800 - 1980 was just a temporary aberration.

 

The Chinese rulers are not interested anymore in growth based on producing thongs and t-shirts. They want the tables turned, their children and grandchildren producing high value strategic goods like chips and robots, and our children and grandchildren doing the t-shirts or working in bars and hotels. Hence "China 2025" and beyond.

 

Do you really think that the attempts to cripple Huawei have anything to do with security or IP theft? Huawei is the company which has submitted the most patents worldwide recently. It is all about market share and profits. There are other Chinese based high-tech multinationals rising rapidly, and their universities are moving very rapidly in the rankings too. 

 

The increased globalisation means the winners taking almost all, and the rest whatever is left. The Chinese want to move to the winner positions in a number of areas.

 

The West response to the Chinese threat so far doesn't seem adequate. Instead of finding ways to increase competitiveness, it resorted to the old "divide and conquer" stuff which doesn't appear to work so far.  In theory, an authoritarian regime should not be able to produce a world class multinational as Huawei, but somehow it happened. Interesting times ahead.

 

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2 hours ago, jayboy said:

I should think that Hong Kong Chinese people seeking refuge in UK would be welcomed by the British people.The Chinese population of the UK is well liked and respected for their industry.They would add tremendous value being mostly young and well educ ated.


It would be great if the majority of people in Britain would totally support a large number of Chinese entering Britain. Yes, hardworking, qualified, and talented, and have money entering into Britain. And it would be great if the women would be allowed in, on the grounds that they have a husband or boyfriend in Britain.

But I don't think lots of British people actually want more coloureds coming into Britain. I think about a third of all British people are actually against any more coloureds coming into Britain. It's not a simple case of just saying "they come over here, they're cheap labour, they bring down wages, they push up rents and house prices".

Even the foreigners who have got good jobs, qualified, and who bring money into Britain, there is still the accusation of "there's too many coloureds in our country, the sheer numbers are causing the indigenous British people to lose whatever sense of British identity and culture, they're causing house prices to rise higher and higher, Britain is an island, it's already over-crowded, we don't want to tear up the country-side in South-East England to build more houses, even if the foreigners are paying good money for houses, Britain is for the British, it's not for the rest of the world, even if the foreigners have got money......"

That Brexit, a democratic vote, lets be honest, one of the main incentives for those voting Brexit was to "cut down on the number of foreigners in Britain". And those who want to cut down the number of foreigners, most of them feel "it's more important to reduce the number of coloureds rather than reduce the number of them East Europeans". Off-course, Brexit is not going to reduce the number of coloureds in Britain, it will simply reduce the number of East Europeans in Britain, but that's another story.......

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22 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:


It would be great if the majority of people in Britain would totally support a large number of Chinese entering Britain. Yes, hardworking, qualified, and talented, and have money entering into Britain. And it would be great if the women would be allowed in, on the grounds that they have a husband or boyfriend in Britain.

But I don't think lots of British people actually want more coloureds coming into Britain. I think about a third of all British people are actually against any more coloureds coming into Britain. It's not a simple case of just saying "they come over here, they're cheap labour, they bring down wages, they push up rents and house prices".

Even the foreigners who have got good jobs, qualified, and who bring money into Britain, there is still the accusation of "there's too many coloureds in our country, the sheer numbers are causing the indigenous British people to lose whatever sense of British identity and culture, they're causing house prices to rise higher and higher, Britain is an island, it's already over-crowded, we don't want to tear up the country-side in South-East England to build more houses, even if the foreigners are paying good money for houses, Britain is for the British, it's not for the rest of the world, even if the foreigners have got money......"

That Brexit, a democratic vote, lets be honest, one of the main incentives for those voting Brexit was to "cut down on the number of foreigners in Britain". And those who want to cut down the number of foreigners, most of them feel "it's more important to reduce the number of coloureds rather than reduce the number of them East Europeans". Off-course, Brexit is not going to reduce the number of coloureds in Britain, it will simply reduce the number of East Europeans in Britain, but that's another story.......

Horrible post at multiple levels.

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3 hours ago, gearbox said:

it is an authoritarian regime, but seems much softer than the former Eastern bloc.

Oh, so soft, so soft.

Quote

The tribunal heard evidence that some hospitals in China offer organ transplants with very short waiting times. This would be impossible without a large bank of people with known tissue types who can be killed to order, said Nice, a former UK judge 

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2206874-prisoners-in-china-are-still-being-used-as-organ-donors-says-inquiry/#ixzz5wgnm415B

 

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1 hour ago, tonbridgebrit said:


It would be great if the majority of people in Britain would totally support a large number of Chinese entering Britain. Yes, hardworking, qualified, and talented, and have money entering into Britain. And it would be great if the women would be allowed in, on the grounds that they have a husband or boyfriend in Britain.
 

 

Be careful what you wish for. Google for "bamboo network". Within a generation or two the Chinese descendants will outsmart the locals.

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19 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

What freedom did China take away from the Hong Kong citizens ?

The freedom to choose who would run Hong Kong ? During the British Colonial era, Hong Kong was not a democracy, the people of Hong Kong were never actually given the freedom to vote for who would be their leader. It was a British Empire place, and the British government chose.

Hong Kong had a lot of freedom of religion during the Colonial era. And Hong Kong still does have a lot of freedom of religion. None of the Christian churches in Hong Kong are claiming that their right to praise the Lord Jesus has been reduced since 1997.
And about freedom of speech. Hong Kong's newspapers were not totally uncensored prior to 1997. And today, Hong Kong people can actually say what they want to say, just like prior to 1997.

We aren’t talking about the past ???? it’s over.  I don’t think you’re ignorant 

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The murderous chinese communist dictatorship, which killed 30 million people, conducts nazi style medical experiments on political prisoners, and as we read this is chip and pinning its people is possibly the most malign dictatorship that has ever existed in human history. The Chinese communist dictatorship make the Nazis look like teddy bears. 

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