Foreign Ministry not keen on allowing visa-free entry to Indians, Chinese

[JesseHumphry]

> to protect themselves from natural disasters in their own countries. 

I'm sorry but...why is that a negative? Maybe I'm naive and young but holy <deleted>, if you're keeping people out of your country with the knowledge that they're escaping natural disasters where they were born.....

I'm not sure how much more morally bankrupt you could be. 

[DrTuner]

They must be terrified of all the Chines and Indian billionaires that would flock here if the fee was waived.

[hotchilli]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

Meanwhile, the Association of Thai Travel Agents reportedly played down the concerns, saying visa-exempt stay would be a huge boon for Thailand’s tourism industry.

They're only interested in numbers not the criminal element !

[zydeco]

13 hours ago, snoop1130 said:

The unnamed source said that since both China and India have a huge population, their nationals were prone to entering Thailand illegally to either make a living or to protect themselves from natural disasters in their own countries. 

Here you have a government official who has looked at the facts on the ground and explained that making things easier for Chinese and Indians to come and stay in Thailand is a direct threat to the country's sovereignty. And there is ample evidence of the truth of this matter: Laos, Cambodia, and Myanmar. But the government, nonetheless, is determined to go ahead with this free and easy Chindia policy. On the other hand, despite massive evidence that not enforcing the TM 30 (over 40 years of evidence) rule has no effect on national security whatsoever, it is THAT rule that they have decided to come down hard on. Free and easy for Chindia, and hard as hell for expats with the TM 30. Who is being given a pass and who is being cracked down on? Does somebody have the number of expats by nationality so that we can see who is most effected versus who is not?

[zydeco]

6 hours ago, Selatan said:

The ethnic Malays certainly fear the Chinese more than the Indonesians, Bangladeshis and the Burmese because of the dominance of the Malaysian Chinese in the economy.

And because during the Malayan Emergency it was primarily Malayan Chinese who dominated the Communist insurrection.

[Ddbanksy]

11 hours ago, donnacha said:

I do sometimes wonder if the Thai authorities will ever recognize that it was a mistake to torpedo their reputation, built up organically over half a century, as an easy-going destination for Westerners.

Just this week, I was talking to a friend making his first visit to S.E. Asia. He will be using Kuala Lumpur as his hub because, somehow, he heard that Thailand are no longer happy to have Westerners coming in and out of Bangkok - he wants to visit Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam but has now arranged it so that he will have to make only one entry into Thailand. I have not said anything to him, but his understanding is that if you leave Thailand and then return a week later, you can be put in a cell and flown back to your home country.

I do not know how representative my friend is of casual Western travelers, but awareness of Thailand's anti-Western sentiment is clearly filtering into that mainstream. That represents a truly massive destruction of hard-won, irreplaceable brand value.

I understand the political reasoning - the Chinese government will never ask awkward questions about democracy - but it seems short-sighted to apply pressure to one group who have been reliably pouring money into your country for decades, in favor of other groups who may not ever actually deliver the five-star visitors that the Thai elites dream of.

I like Thailand, but it is not a five-star destination. For all the lovely things about Thailand, there are very real trade-offs. That's fine with me, because I am not a five-star guy. Thailand was, for decades, the right trade-off for me and many other westerners seeking a break from the world of 9-to-5 and competent driving.

I know that there are Chinese and Indian multi-millionaires, lots of them, but why would they come here? If you have real money, there are far better destinations. I am pretty sure that, at the end of this grand switch, the Thais will end up with roughly the same amount of tourists on roughly the same budgets, but will far less stability and long-term durability.

The real insanity is that they could have continued attracting tourists from both the West while simultaneously developing these new markets. Why jettison their existing market?

Spot on mate,normal western tourists are now more dubious to come,especially families.

 What do Indians and Chinese bring to the Kingdom??

I've worked and been amongst these kind of dirty,ignorant,arrogant,rude,selfish people over 25 years in there own countries,Buddha help us!

[zydeco]

29 minutes ago, JesseHumphry said:

Maybe I'm naive and young

Yes, you are.

[ancharee]

10 hours ago, holy cow cm said:

And that country is? The Vatican city?

 

As it stands, all of us as it feels have been demonized so it really cannot be any of our previous home countries of where we are from. As it feels now is as being perceived as an undesirable criminal being ostracized for looking left, or then looking right as the bank account may not meet their high rolling standard. Or on a more superficial line, heavily scrutinized and badgered by the immigration because...…... ? Xenophobic or a feel that of superiority.

 

Yeah I understand that the Thai race is more superior and greater to all the other races. I just keep on forgetting it as my brain is not as good as it used to be. Maybe I need to read Moby <deleted> again. Or was that to watch the series of Flipper again? Such a contemplation.

The age of consent in the Vatican city is 14 and is one of the most corrupt places on the planet.

[Chrisswe]

That's right, they must see the consequenses of there' action's, not only see the money !!!! 

[DrTuner]

12 hours ago, donnacha said:

I understand the political reasoning - the Chinese government will never ask awkward questions about democracy

Bingo. That's what matters, even more important than the tourist dollars.

[holy cow cm]

15 minutes ago, ancharee said:

The age of consent in the Vatican city is 14 and is one of the most corrupt places on the planet.

And your point is? Fits in perfect here then. 

[gtm2k]

Perhaps FM reading too much TV!

The chinese+indians dont care much about free visas, as much as they care about air fares. They'll keep coming much to the sadist amusement of "soon to be dead" retirees of TV and some grumpy old men sitting in the FM. 

 

On a larger note, constantly milking farang dollar is what the folks here want. Their DNA is sequenced to believe that the farang will keep coming with their green paperback as long as the smiles, sun and sand are available along with a 3$ margerita over the sunset. 


 

[wahpiangeh56]

Its baffling to begin with.Why Single out the Chinese and the INdians?

[elliss]

12 hours ago, Traubert said:

'An unnamed source said.......'

 

Ok.

 

           HP .

[elliss]

3 minutes ago, wahpiangeh56 said:

Its baffling to begin with.Why Single out the Chinese and the INdians?

 

      Non whites .

 

[MacMan2000]

2 hours ago, MartinKal said:

It seems that Thailand is moving into closer relations with the two regional powers. China is the world's number 1 economy in PPP and India will be number 2 within a decade. That's the marketing focus.

 

Its looks more of a idiological focus then a marketing one, india can save them up to a point..

[Pedrogaz]

Finally someone from the Foreign Ministry talking sense.

[otaku00]

If u let Indians in massively, you should legalise prostitution. The percentage of sex tourists is higher for Indians than for Westerners. Wanting to squeeze them and at the same time pressuring whores - esp on the beach - is ridiculous. If u want more Indians, u are saying that u want more misbehavior and a larger sex business.

[nickmondo]

5 hours ago, donnacha said:

If that any sort of reflection of current farang levels in Thailand, it is truly shocking. We really are on the way out ☹️

yes, and one less to add to that in November......me.

[emptypockets]

5 hours ago, donnacha said:

Could not agree more with everything you said.

The magical ability to boost their tourist industry and economy is right there in their hands: allow the people who already have the "Thailand habit" to stay for longer.

The rule should be 90 days visa exempt for all advanced nations, but let people come in and out, so that Thailand can once again be a safe hub for all S.E. Asian tourism, possibly saving Thai Airways from bankruptcy along the way.

Each tourist should have a maximum of 6 months within any 365 day period. So, you could bounce in and out, getting a 90-day stamp each time and use as much or little of that as you want, but if you have already been present in the country for, say, 4 and a half months, you would only get a 45-day stamp.

No tourist could stay for more than 90-days in one visit or six months in one year. That would eliminate the possibility, which seems to worries immigration officers so much, that the tourist is secretly living in the country or taking a Thai job.

Within those lines, there should be no question of anyone being denied entry. The publicity around each denial sends a ripple that further erodes the credibility of Thailand as a major air hub. The uncertainty is the damaging thing.

The flexibility of such a system would once again establish Thailand as a relaxed destination and easy choice.

Instead, they continue to move in the opposite direction. 60-day single-entry tourist visas from the UK embassy now require bank statements proving a certain level of income, flight tickets, and your hotel booking. None of that was required when I got mine last year. It is insanely restrictive for a simple, short-term, single-entry tourist visa. I am now pretty much restricted to a 30-day visa waiver entry plus 30-day extension. The next shoe to drop will be mandatory insurance. Thailand is making less and less sense as a destination.

Am I crazy to think that there were a considerable number of people who liked to spend their winters in S.E. Asia and primarily Thailand?

Regular people on relatively normal incomes would put aside money throughout the year so that they could spend three months having a nice, relaxed time in sunny country with nice food and the occasional massage while their friends at home dealt with dreich weather and winter gloom.

They wouldn't spend a fortune, but it was real money, going into the Thai economy and creating jobs.

To get there, they would have one hell of a long plane journey and, beyond a certain age, that really takes it out of you. For a lot of people, going to all that hassle for just a month or two and returning before the winter has ended simply isn't worth all the hassle.

I wish there was some way to sit down with whoever is making these decisions and help them see that what they are breaking will not be as easy to replace as they imagine.



 

Perhaps your substantial  efforts may be better put to use sorting out your home countries immigration problems and let other sovereign nations make their own rules? 

By the way,  what is an advanced nation?  Obviously you've never been to any of the big cities in China. 

 

[eddysmit]

13 hours ago, donnacha said:

I do sometimes wonder if the Thai authorities will ever recognize that it was a mistake to torpedo their reputation, built up organically over half a century, as an easy-going destination for Westerners.

Just this week, I was talking to a friend making his first visit to S.E. Asia. He will be using Kuala Lumpur as his hub because, somehow, he heard that Thailand are no longer happy to have Westerners coming in and out of Bangkok - he wants to visit Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam but has now arranged it so that he will have to make only one entry into Thailand. I have not said anything to him, but his understanding is that if you leave Thailand and then return a week later, you can be put in a cell and flown back to your home country.

I do not know how representative my friend is of casual Western travelers, but awareness of Thailand's anti-Western sentiment is clearly filtering into that mainstream. That represents a truly massive destruction of hard-won, irreplaceable brand value.

I understand the political reasoning - the Chinese government will never ask awkward questions about democracy - but it seems short-sighted to apply pressure to one group who have been reliably pouring money into your country for decades, in favor of other groups who may not ever actually deliver the five-star visitors that the Thai elites dream of.

I like Thailand, but it is not a five-star destination. For all the lovely things about Thailand, there are very real trade-offs. That's fine with me, because I am not a five-star guy. Thailand was, for decades, the right trade-off for me and many other westerners seeking a break from the world of 9-to-5 and competent driving.

I know that there are Chinese and Indian multi-millionaires, lots of them, but why would they come here? If you have real money, there are far better destinations. I am pretty sure that, at the end of this grand switch, the Thais will end up with roughly the same amount of tourists on roughly the same budgets, but will far less stability and long-term durability.

The real insanity is that they could have continued attracting tourists from both the West while simultaneously developing these new markets. Why jettison their existing market?

I would think your excellent comment sums it up for many Westerners like me as well,good to read an honest appraisal

[emptypockets]

3 hours ago, Sonhia said:

What are the main reasons tourists visit Thailand, more so than.any other country within SE Asia? In my opinion the answer is very easy to find and clear to see, THE SEX INDUSTRY, which is illigal but allowed to continue. I wonder why...

 

Let's be honest,  is it really for temples? Food? Smiles? Harmony? Relaxation? Cheapness (NOT ANY MORE), polluted seas / beaches with the most dangerous roads in the world plus highest gun related crimes not forgetting human plus animal rights violations etc etc etc..!

 

Thais have had it far too good for far too long, becoming very arrogant and rasist whilst demonstrating a lack of respect in their HIGH HORSE approach plus handling toward foreginers.who, let us not forget, have been for decades and still are, the main bread and butter for Thai nationals..

 

Thailand resembles to me much the same as many other run down S E Asian.countries, so what is the attraction of the place? Personally, I see none anymore because Thai have finally altered  my opinion of both them plus the place, to one of dislke. When I think  I, as have many thousands of FARANG, have wasted years of efforts plus a lot of money on a nation.of people who simply look at me as just another ATM, a low life tourist scum, I cannot help but feel bitter.

 

Thai do not respect me plus tousands of other non Thai for the combined contributions made, with mostly good intentions,, to a nation of people that once had jack, who now simply mock and look down on many FARANG in their smile at your face, but put the knife in the back, brash mannerisms. 

 

Attempting to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear just does not work. Thai should consider looking at themselves plus their enviroment, which they alone created. Both are far from being hospitable, polite or paradise.

How much did she take you for mate? 

[Pedrogaz]

I don't think there is ever any analysis as to why the farangs are leaving/not coming to Thailand. Here what counts as analysis is the Big Man in the room expresses his opinion and then everybody agrees. If the Big Man said it was raining outside and everybody looks out of the window and saw it was a sunny day with a cloudless sky, they would still agree. It is the problem of teaching deference to the hierarchy.

So no one knows what contribution of the strong Thai baht, how much is due to the lousy corruption, how much due to lack of personal safety from accidents or crimes....etc NO ANALYSIS IS DONE, just a pronouncement. Which is why nothing changes here....the political system is PRONOUNCEMENT, CRACKDOWN, THEN BACK DOWN THE SNAKE UNTIL SQUARE ONE.

 

My personal reason for coming to Thailand was the quality of the upstanding and noble police force. IN the UK I never saw a photo of a lot of jolly smelling policemen standing round a vicious perp for a photo op.....and I think the UK is all the poorer for that.

[atyclb]

mfa and their satellite thai embassies/consulates stand to lose a lot of revenuse with such a move. likely embassies already lost revenue as  it has become very difficult to obtain 1 year visas in nearby se asia countries

[emptypockets]

2 hours ago, GAZZPA said:

Agree 100%. it is already more challenging due to the exchange rate to visit or live in Thailand. Add the unwelcome feeling it just isn't worth it. I can't think of reason to visit anymore, and I believe many are holding onto the "good old days" but now realising its pretty much over. The leaving of many will continue. There are quite simply better places to go now.  They dont want farangs in their country, fair enough, they will soon get their wish.

 

What unwelcome feeling would that be?  The one that some sad, dejected posters go on about incessantly? I can understand some Thais getting sick and tired of the bar stool, balloon chasing cheap charlies amongst the forum membership but my feelings are the exact opposite. I don't live in Pattaya or Phuket which is where I suspect many of these member reside. 

It would be good to hear from some Isaan based members and see if they get this unwelcome feeling from people in their community. 

[Baerboxer]

8 hours ago, MacMan2000 said:

 

Great post, Thanks !

 

It is really amazing how they can't make the connection between the way they treat the long term\frequent visitors to repercussion it will have on the casual tourists.

 

When a country acts in a way that is precived as unjust to one of your fellow countryman, people will generally blacklist this country on thier next travel plans..

 

They can't dance on both wedding..

You can't treat expats like criminals, and then expact their countryman to come here and spend money.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately "Cause & Effect" is missing from the education syllabus along with "Critical Thinking". 

 

That, when influenced by face keeping, a belief they're never ever wrong, and a belief that education only adds a little to the unbounded knowledge they're born with, prevents any such thoughts ever entering their heads.

 

Just like if there are less tourists we should put the prices up to compensate mentality.

 

Mind you the FM are right to worry about Indians. I have many Indian friends and lived and worked there. Visa free travel would be seen by many Indians as an invitation for come, stay as long as possible and work.

[remorhaz]

I'm from Panama and if you look at the visa map of S.E. Asia you see visa on arrival, e-visa online, visa exempt for 30 days, and a big dark hole with ADVANCED VISA REQUIRED where Thailand is.  I can literally go to any other country that borders Thailand without any sort of major fuss.  China is easier for me to visit.  It didn't used to be that bad but lately the paperwork requirements have gotten extreme and worse I now must pay for everything in advance, receipts required for accommodation, and if they say no all monies are lost.  This is new and obviously not the experience of everyone.  If you're from England or Canada or such you still get your visa on arrival or visa free access but for those who say there hasn't been a change .. yes... yes there has been and its now much harder to visit.  This is part of a trend.  

 

This being said replacing Westerners with poor Indians who are much more likely to go on overstay IMHOP isn't going to change this trend they'll just make it harder for everyone else.

[Percy P]

13 hours ago, donnacha said:

I do sometimes wonder if the Thai authorities will ever recognize that it was a mistake to torpedo their reputation, built up organically over half a century, as an easy-going destination for Westerners.

Just this week, I was talking to a friend making his first visit to S.E. Asia. He will be using Kuala Lumpur as his hub because, somehow, he heard that Thailand are no longer happy to have Westerners coming in and out of Bangkok - he wants to visit Thailand, Cambodia, Laos and Vietnam but has now arranged it so that he will have to make only one entry into Thailand. I have not said anything to him, but his understanding is that if you leave Thailand and then return a week later, you can be put in a cell and flown back to your home country.

I do not know how representative my friend is of casual Western travelers, but awareness of Thailand's anti-Western sentiment is clearly filtering into that mainstream. That represents a truly massive destruction of hard-won, irreplaceable brand value.

I understand the political reasoning - the Chinese government will never ask awkward questions about democracy - but it seems short-sighted to apply pressure to one group who have been reliably pouring money into your country for decades, in favor of other groups who may not ever actually deliver the five-star visitors that the Thai elites dream of.

I like Thailand, but it is not a five-star destination. For all the lovely things about Thailand, there are very real trade-offs. That's fine with me, because I am not a five-star guy. Thailand was, for decades, the right trade-off for me and many other westerners seeking a break from the world of 9-to-5 and competent driving.

I know that there are Chinese and Indian multi-millionaires, lots of them, but why would they come here? If you have real money, there are far better destinations. I am pretty sure that, at the end of this grand switch, the Thais will end up with roughly the same amount of tourists on roughly the same budgets, but will far less stability and long-term durability.

The real insanity is that they could have continued attracting tourists from both the West while simultaneously developing these new markets. Why jettison their existing market?

But the Western Countries money has halved in value against the Baht by over 50% over The last ten years . The £ before 2008 was 78-9/£ now 37.54B. So your paying twice the amount in your countries money for the same item so westerners are not coming but where do they go. The situation In relation to money is the same In most countries .

In relation to the Thai Baht things are cheap for westeners. If your retired he it's a different thing unless you've planned 20years previously.

[Percy P]

48 minutes ago, nickmondo said:

yes, and one less to add to that in November......me.

And where are you going to. I think you will be back.

[Percy P]

8 hours ago, Selatan said:

In the past, Malaysia used to give visa exemption to Chinese tourists and Malaysia's tourist numbers were even higher than Thailand's back then. But the Malaysian authorities later removed that privilege when they realised that a huge number of Chinese "tourists" had failed to leave, and so Thailand's tourist numbers overtook Malaysia's. 

 

Why would the Malaysian authorities worry about the presence of illegal Chinese immigrants when there were far higher number of illegal immigrants from other countries, numbering in the millions, working illegally in Malaysia? Well, we have racial politics in Malaysia to blame for that. The ethnic Malays certainly fear the Chinese more than the Indonesians, Bangladeshis and the Burmese because of the dominance of the Malaysian Chinese in the economy.

 

But, now that China has become far richer than in the past, I wouldn't be surprised if Malaysia may once again grant visa exemption to Chinese tourists in the near future if the economy goes down.

It's not to good now the reason to issue free visas. This move will add to foreign reserve a vital thing as foreign good purchased out of the country can not be paid for in Thai Baht.