webfact Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 OPINION Saving Thai Airways By Tim Newton PHOTO: The pleasant smile and wai won’t fill aircraft seats anymore Whilst it’s always a generally pleasant experience flying Thai Airways, the airline, in a business sense, is a basket case racking up nearly a decade of losses, first under the Yingluck Shinawatra Government and then the military government of the NCPO. Most people in aviation circles agree on the main challenges for the national carrier. • Entrenched nepotism and cronyism • Top heavy management • Contracts for older staff which do not reflect aviation business realities in 2019 • Uncompetitive pricing So do what QANTAS did in Australia in 2003. QANTAS was Australia’s legacy airline which had similar long-standing contracts and Union issues that made it difficult for the national carrier to compete in the modern aviation business. It battled for decades with the staff, all on cushy contracts, and the Unions were resistant to change as well. So they started JetStar, a completely separate company headquartered in Melbourne, but under the wider QANTAS banner. It would take over the ‘leisure’ routes and compete as a low-cost carrier. As QANTAS slowly moved routes over to its cheaper subsidiary the parent airline had a much better argument to pay-out the older, uncompetitive contracts and lay-off the ‘old pot boilers’. JetStar was not a glamorous airline and lacked the reputation and brand-love of the ‘flying kangaroo’ but, as a business strategy, was a winner for QANTAS and gave them options to modernise the national airline business. The CEO, Alan Joyce, came through Aer Lingus in Ireland then the failing Ansett Airlines in Australia to completely turn Australia’s national carrier upside-down. The strategy worked. The model has been repeated by other national airlines. Thai Airways sort of tried the same strategy with Thai Smile in 2012. The offshoot of the parent Thai Airways International, would fly leisure routes for the national carrier but it was still owned entirely by Thai Airways and wasn’t set up as a separate entity so was subject to much of the same ‘handbrakes’ that was holding back Thai Airways from competition in the modern aviation market. Brand Thai Airways is starting to look a bit tired. The Thai smile, orchids, pleasant staff wai-ing to the camera is all a bit naff when most customers in 2019 are looking for a safe, efficient, on-time airline, at a competitive price. Let’s face it, the seating is much the same, give or take, in just about any plane now. Unless you have the deeper pockets and can afford to sit closer to the front of the plane, you’re in cattle class whether you’re on Thai Airways, Air Asia or RyanAir. A Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 is much the same aeroplane no matter who is flying it. So what does Thai Airways have to offer customers these days that they won’t get on the many alternatives airlines flying on the same routes? Nice uniforms? A Thai stir-fry included in your airfare? (I’m battling to think of anything else…) At the same time their website , whilst much improved in the past 12 months, is still a bit ‘clumsy’ compared to other airlines, the fleet is starting to look a bit ‘tired’, the eight years of loss after loss is starting to noticeably weigh on the airline’s staff, and in many cases the airfares are simply too expensive. Unless you’re a huge Thai Airways fanboy or fangirl, there are fewer reasons every year to keep flying Thailand’s national airline. Thailand’s surging tourist industry, which despite a few blips this year will continue to grow, has provided a huge opportunity for Thai Airways to thrive and grow. Instead the airline’s management have squandered an enormous opportunity. Whilst calling for patience as they make (almost zero) changes, many other airlines have jumped into their flying space with newer aircraft, better promotions, cheaper flights and a better business plan. If Thai Airways was a private company they would have been out of business a decade ago. Instead they keep coming back to the Thai government with their hat out for contributions to bail them out of quarter after quarter of losses. The airline’s main backer, the Thai government, provides a massive disincentive for the airline to clean up the internal mess and modernise. Where’s the urgency to make the necessary changes when the government will always end up bailing then out? The airline has simply weaponised ‘saving face’ – the national carrier simply CAN’T fail. But maybe the view of Thai Airways as a potential profitable business is old-fashioned and the costs to the Thai taxpayer should be seen as an ‘investment’ into the country’s growing tourist industry. Middle Eastern airlines are operated in this way where they make massive losses but provide excellent service on modern aircraft dragging tourists through and to their airports and destinations. Now Thai Airways is asking for the Thai government to bankroll the purchase of new aircraft for its fleet. That the Thai Government seems in no rush to write out any more cheques to Thai Airways is a good indication that some hard decisions now need to be made. Source: https://thethaiger.com/news/opinion/saving-thai-airways -- © Copyright The Thaiger 2019-08-21 Follow Thaivisa on LINE for breaking Thailand news and visa info Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, webfact said: Saving Thai Airways Why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razek Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 9 minutes ago, webfact said: Contracts for older staff which do not reflect aviation business realities in 2019 • Uncompetitive pricing You have touched the pain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 10 minutes ago, webfact said: So do what QANTAS did in Australia in 2003. Owww! How alien! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sammieuk1 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Oh dear I need my sides stitching up now put a farang customer in charge anyone of them will do a better job than these clowns???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orton Rd Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Sack the lot of them and sell it to Air Asia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razek Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Very old stuff. Family staff ..bad service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Stick with something you're good at! A slow tug on a well oiled kite string! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotBenz8888 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Except for the direct flights, there's absolutely nothing that would make me choose Thai airways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just1Voice Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I took them once, when they still had flights to LA. Swore i would never fly them again. Food was crappy, served cold, and "air hostesses" were old, all well over 30, totally unattractive, and downright unfriendly, and even rude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justgrazing Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Stale , tired and overpriced .. I know no-one who even consider Thai Airways when travelling to and from the Kingdom .. The cord needs to be cut from the government bailouts and let them sink or swim alone .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterwhisper Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Just1Voice said: I took them once, when they still had flights to LA. Swore i would never fly them again. Food was crappy, served cold, and "air hostesses" were old, all well over 30, totally unattractive, and downright unfriendly, and even rude. You could have summed up the hostesses' attributes in one single word... menopausal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realfunster Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Saving Thai Airways by realfunster Privatisation. The end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sqwakvfr Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 It just got tougher for Thai. Due to the ongoing back and forth between Japan and S. Korea Korean Air has drastically cut it’s flight to Japan. Instead Korean Air has increased flights to SE Asia. For example flights from CNX to ICN are going to almost double in frequency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oztruckie Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Still a lot cheaper than Qantas from BKK to Melbourne,while Emirates was operating with Qantas on BKK to Melbourne route bus. class was around 84k but,After Emirates terminated their service Qantas jacked the price up to 120k but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trainman34014 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, PatOngo said: Why??? Because it's Thai Hi-So's pet plaything ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cadbury Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, webfact said: Saving Thai Airways Thai Airways is beyond the point of salvation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katipo Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 "Let’s face it, the seating is much the same, give or take, in just about any plane now. Unless you have the deeper pockets and can afford to sit closer to the front of the plane, you’re in cattle class whether you’re on Thai Airways, Air Asia or RyanAir. A Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 is much the same aeroplane no matter who is flying it" Nope, totally disagree, and the writer loses all credibility when making such an incorrect statement. Just follow the below link for a beginners course in the differences between different economy seats in different airlines. Spoiler alert, Thai airways rates better than most with a 32" average pitch, and an 18" seat width. Ryan Air fyi, 30" and 17". https://www.seatguru.com/charts/longhaul_economy.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, realfunster said: Saving Thai Airways by realfunster Privatisation. The end. Fierce resistance will come from these groups. 1. Unions - retrenchment 2. Right groups - “ sai na“losing national identity 3. MOF - losing 51% control In conclusion, privatization not going to happen. They will be bail out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fex Bluse Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 37 minutes ago, Katipo said: "Let’s face it, the seating is much the same, give or take, in just about any plane now. Unless you have the deeper pockets and can afford to sit closer to the front of the plane, you’re in cattle class whether you’re on Thai Airways, Air Asia or RyanAir. A Boeing 737 or Airbus A320 is much the same aeroplane no matter who is flying it" Nope, totally disagree, and the writer loses all credibility when making such an incorrect statement. Just follow the below link for a beginners course in the differences between different economy seats in different airlines. Spoiler alert, Thai airways rates better than most with a 32" average pitch, and an 18" seat width. Ryan Air fyi, 30" and 17". https://www.seatguru.com/charts/longhaul_economy.php For experienced flyers (like expats), this sort of thing matters. However, the average tourist travelers would not have a clue. Nor would they choose airlines based on such refined details. So, I think you are correct but not for the majority of flyers. For most, economy is economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolpush Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, RotBenz8888 said: Except for the direct flights, there's absolutely nothing that would make me choose Thai airways. And the Business Class separate check in and Immigration lanes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
natway09 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Over 30 old ? ,, come on !!!! I have a question though Assume 10 high level diplomats travel from the Foreign Ministry BKK- London in Business class. Does Thai Airways invoice the particular Ministry & actually get paid or just has to absorb the cost ? If not there is your first problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Srikcir Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 2 hours ago, Orton Rd said: Sack the lot of them and sell it to Air Asia Thailand simply sells its 51% stake and no more worries how the airlines operates or who might buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teddy3943 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Saving face is the weakest Characteristic of Thai people. (not only Thais, but most of the Asian people). Because saving face has a higher status then honesty or truth it causes a lot of big problems..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrPhibes Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 Another Thai elite family sucking off the governments teat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBWG Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 To survive in the current aviation climate an airline needs people at the top with decades of aviation know how rather than individuals appointed via nepotism and cronyism. The most successful airlines do not have a national at the helm, think Emirates, Cathay Pacific CEO Rupert Hogg has through an act of integrity just become available and has extensive experience of running a profitable airline in the Far East surely an ideal candidate. Will it happen no and Thai will continue on it's downward flightpath. TBWG https://www.ibtimes.com/cathay-pacific-ceo-praised-not-giving-names-staff-joining-hong-kong-protest-2815487 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misterwhisper Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 1 hour ago, Katipo said: Thai Airways, Air Asia or RyanAir Interesting that you would group Thai Airways with these two bottom-of-the-barrel airlines. What does that imply about Thai... hmmm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnyboy2018 Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 I was disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 3 hours ago, webfact said: • Entrenched nepotism and cronyism • Top heavy management • Contracts for older staff which do not reflect aviation business realities in 2019 • Uncompetitive pricing Sorry, are we talking about the govt here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasThBKK Posted August 21, 2019 Share Posted August 21, 2019 11 minutes ago, Misterwhisper said: Interesting that you would group Thai Airways with these two bottom-of-the-barrel airlines. What does that imply about Thai... hmmm? Actually Air Asia had way better planes the last times i used them compared to Thai. All new Airbus 320neo. very nice planes for short haul and mid. Quote In June 2011 AirAsia ordered 200 Airbus A320neos at the Paris Air Show.[64][65] The planes were originally due to become available in 2015, and the deal was one of the largest ever for commercial aircraft in a single order.[64] The deal was worth US$18 billion at list prices, although AirAsia will have obtained a substantial discount from those prices.[65] The deal makes AirAsia Airbus' single biggest customer.[66] On 13 December 2012, AirAsia placed an order for an additional 100 Airbus A320 jets, splitting it between 64 A320neo and 36 A320ceo.[67] At the Farnborough International Air Show in 2016, Air Asia ordered 100 A321neos at an estimated cost of US$12.6 Billion dollars at list prices.[68] Air Asia plans to fly these larger aircraft to airports that have infrastructure constraints.[69] AirAsia received its first A320neo In September 2016. With this, the total number of orders that AirAsia had placed for the Airbus A320 family had gone up to 575, reaffirming the carrier's position as the largest airline customer for the Airbus single aisle product line.[70] Please do not group them with the Thai Airways junk, they are in fact way better -.- Costwise, we flew to maldives... 4 hour flight. Was 320 USD for AirAsia with return from DMK, same flight would have been 7XX USD with Thai from Swampy. Totally not worth it to use Thai Airways and pay 400 bucks more for a 4 hour flight just to get an older plane ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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