After Germany hints at compromise, France tells UK: no new Brexit deal

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

More likely to be a Con/Brexit coalition IMHO.

As a Tory voter, obviously you would say that. As a Labour voter, obviously I would say otherwise.

 

The biggest obstacle to a Tory success it organising tactical voting in marginals. The Tories, Brexit party or their supporters aren't exactly the brightest pennies in the bucket.

[BritManToo]

Just now, DannyCarlton said:

As a Tory voter, obviously you would say that. As a Labour voter, obviously I would say otherwise.

 

The biggest obstacle to a Tory success it organising tactical voting in marginals. The Tories, Brexit party or their supporters aren't exactly the brightest pennies in the bucket.

Last vote I cast was for Arthur Skargill's Socialist Labour Party.

Not sure that makes me a Tory.

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, BritManToo said:

Last vote I cast was for Arthur Skargill's Socialist Labour Party.

Not sure that makes me a Tory.

Well in that case, Corbyn and Momentum are right up your street! He needs your vote!

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Well in that case, Corbyn and Momentum are right up your street! He needs your vote!

I won't vote for any party that doesn't have the forced redistribution of land and the ending of building restrictions for private homes as number 1 and 2 in it's election manifesto. (redistribution from the Aristocracy, church, government, RSPB and National trust to name a few)

[vogie]

11 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

As a Tory voter, obviously you would say that. As a Labour voter, obviously I would say otherwise.

 

The biggest obstacle to a Tory success it organising tactical voting in marginals. The Tories, Brexit party or their supporters aren't exactly the brightest pennies in the bucket.

Whilst Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott are, is this what you are telling us, it would seem it is the Labour voters that are deficient in the old grey matter department.????????????

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, vogie said:

Whilst Corbyn, McDonnell and Abbott are, is this what you are telling us, it would seem it is the Labour voters that are deficient in the old grey matter department.????????????

Corbyn and McDonnel yes, I'd take them any day over, Johnson, Gove and JRM. Abbot? Well we all know why she's in the cabinet!

[stephenterry]

Back to the topic, which is yet another Brexit one. I would have hoped that responses would be few and far between, but now they're veering off course.

 

I believe Johnson wants a deal that would be agreed by parliament, but there's little doubt unless a solution to the backstop is found and approved by the EU, Johnson would be heading on a collision course with parliament.  

 

And that would see the end of his tenure as PM without a doubt. Why? Mainly because the prospect of a no-deal would be constitutionally unacceptable by parliament, and if he ignores that and pushes through a no-deal by hook or by crook, the ramifications would blow Britain apart.

 

Best of luck...

 

 

[david555]

[Laughing Gravy]

2 hours ago, david555 said:

"But like most remoaners on here they are not even from the UK. Astounding." 

 

 

No we are not , but we are from the E.U...…. that other part involved ..you know ? Proved again you think you are the only important one , hilarious such a ……..yes...…. arrogance

 

And don't worry , we accepted already longer your leaving.. but not that nagging trying to push your stubborn demands thru endlessly 

Well the only comparison I can see is that Holland and the UK had referendums on the EU. The difference is the UK government have accepted the peoples decision where the Dutch government totally ignored it. Very democratic. I guess that's why you have mentioned the UK can revoke article 50. no thanks we believe in democracy.

 

Is that why you are so interested in the Brexit threads as you are a serial poster, although usually slating the UK and telling us all we have made a huge mistake.

 

I am glad you accept we are leaving. Because we are. Shame your country didn't have the backbone to do the same.

[david555]

15 minutes ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well the only comparison I can see is that Holland and the UK had referendums on the EU. The difference is the UK government have accepted the peoples decision where the Dutch government totally ignored it. Very democratic. I guess that's why you have mentioned the UK can revoke article 50. no thanks we believe in democracy.

 

Is that why you are so interested in the Brexit threads as you are a serial poster, although usually slating the UK and telling us all we have made a huge mistake.

 

I am glad you accept we are leaving. Because we are. Shame your country didn't have the backbone to do the same.

"Shame your country didn't have the backbone to do the same."

 

 

We don't think with our backbone sir …. we use our common sense brain ..! 

[Laughing Gravy]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

"Shame your country didn't have the backbone to do the same."

 

 

We don't think with our backbone sir …. we use our common sense brain ..! 

Well good for you. I am glad you are happy to be ruled by the Germans. I am happy we don't have your common sense brain.

[stephenterry]

I have no issue in leaving the EU with a deal and a transitional period. That is the sensible course of action. And it could prompt both the UK and the EU to reevaluate how they interact going forward. Clearly, this needs much work on both sides to move successfully into the future. 

 

On the other hand, I do have an issue with a no-deal. Under no circumstances could I support a possible break up of the UK, and if a no deal occurred I would welcome the GE  - and a change of government- that would follow.

[david555]

1 minute ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well good for you. I am glad you are happy to be ruled by the Germans. I am happy we don't have your common sense brain.

They are family …. they are our nephews …..century's already , only when they come to visit our country's they stay too long (2 times almost 5 years stay ) , need to kick them out or they never leave …..lol 5555

Besides your royal Family have running a big part of that German blue blood in their veins …..lol

[MRToMRT]

 

 

*****

I deleted my post as I realized it did not come to a logical conclusion.

[neverceasetobeamazed]

On 8/22/2019 at 6:24 AM, DannyCarlton said:

Do you live on planet Brexit? Of course there's plenty of time to have a vote of no confidence in the government and call a GE. Did you not read the timeline I posted here yesterday? If a GE were to be called the EU would undoubtedly give us an extension beyond October 31st, particularly if 2 parties campaigned on the platform of a confirmatory vote. Those 2 parties would undoubtedly form a coalition government and a confirmatory vote will be called. The Great British People will democratically vote to repeal Article 50 and this whole debacle will be at an end and we can all go back to being friends again. and a lot of the rank animosity can be removed from this forum.

 

As for the protesters outside the Cancellory, as another poster said, could be expats in Germany, who overwhelmingly want to remain in Europe but more likely Germans who see us Brits as good friends and realise the damage it will do to to both the 27 remaining countries in the EU, Germany in particular, and much more so the UK. A no deal Brexit was never on the table, get over it and prepare for sunny days when we finally decide not to abandon our European brothers.

Wishful thinking.  Time really is limited.   The only window of opportunity is shown on this graphic:

 

The vote of confidence, should it be tabled will not succeed as the Pro-EU conservatives, Independents and about 40 Labour Party members will not support it.

 

I admire your bravado, but in reality there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden!

 

Plus the Pro-EU Conservatives have I understand, decided to wait until the end of September to see if it looks like Boris can get a deal before attempting to legislate against a no-deal in the light of the comments from Angela Merkel and the reported comments yesterday of Mr Macron in which the French President suggested the EU Withdrawal Agreement could after all be amended to allow the UK to quit the bloc with a deal.

 

Apparently it is reported that the concession saw the Prime Minister raise his hands in the air in apparent triumph on his return to Downing Street from his talks in Paris.  Mr Macron, in a seeming shift from his hard-line refusal to consider any renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement, conceded an “intelligent” solution to break the deadlock over the Irish border backstop could be found with “goodwill” on both sides. 

 

 

[bert bloggs]

On 8/22/2019 at 5:55 AM, Forethat said:

"As Johnson arrived, protesters outside the Chancellery gates shouted "Stop Brexit". 

 

Now why would German protestors do that? Do they know something remoaners on here don't? If UK leaves the EU there will be so much more left for the Germans...what on earth could they have figured out...? 

We all know why they want us to stay ,money ,once we leave they will have to shell out more of it ,not our fault that loads of countrys were allowed to join the EU to scrounge off it .

[david555]

 

7 minutes ago, MRToMRT said:

I am now starting to believe that article 50 HAS to be revoked. I think the numbers in parliament  for Boris getting away with no deal are not enough so he would need to revoke it as the legal alternative. If he wants an election he needs to revoke it because there would not be time. If he wants a renegotiated deal he will have to revoke it because 30 days is not enough for the EU to renegotiate IMHO. 

Oh no ….not that  all over again.....that's not fair play …..

[Laughing Gravy]

23 minutes ago, david555 said:

They are family …. they are our nephews …..century's already , only when they come to visit our country's they stay too long (2 times almost 5 years stay ) , need to kick them out or they never leave …..lol 5555

Besides your royal Family have running a big part of that German blue blood in their veins …..lol

Again glad your happy to be ruled by them. I have said before I am happy to be friends with other European countries.

 

Don't forget the EU is not Europe, it is an entity. I lived in Germany, great people. That doesn't mean I want them telling us what to do whether directly or under the flag of the EU.

 

 

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Although a Labour voter all my life, I too have no time for Corbyn and his middle class gang of luvvies a.k.a. Momentum who have stolen the Labour party from the ordinary working man. Who represents us now? No one.

I think a degree of tactical voting is required in marginal cvonstituencies to prise the HOC from the alt right Tories.

Who willl form the new Government?

I can see the SNP making further gains in Scotland, possibly a clean sweep. Plaid Cumru in Wales? Possibly. I think that the party with most to gain is the Lib Dems who could do very well, I would probably vote for them. Who knows even Sinn Fein could make an appearance at Westminster, Jeremy and Gerry are bessie mates!

IF not a Lib/Lab coalition maybe a multi party coalition as in Germany, probably not a bad thing. Whatever the coalition, it would be pro remain or at least publically, pro confirmatory vote.

I was a member of the LP and gave a lot of time fighting against the evil witch in the 1980s, I left in disgust when Blair invaded Iraq. I now support the SNP, the LP in Scotland is a busted flush, too long they thought the country was their private fiefdom, and they are imploding with the long slow death of Unionism. So yes to your SNP gains.

The looney left have indeed stolen the LP from decent moderate MPs and members, who had intelligent leaders among them, only a few on the current Front bench apart from Starmer and Thornbury could you describe that way. I don't agree with your luvvies comment on Momentum though. They are largely kids, students etc,  inspired by Corbyn's rehashed Benn speeches. That generation are not remotely as fixated on class as the TV one is.

 

Merkel and Macron just played Boris for the fool he is. A coalition government is now the only way to escape from no deal disaster. The problem is many MPs supporters of this find JC too much to stomach. I have no confidence that JC's controllers will let him stand aside for a leader capable of attracting wider support, with them the ideology always comes before the country.

 

 

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I won't vote for any party that doesn't have the forced redistribution of land and the ending of building restrictions for private homes as number 1 and 2 in it's election manifesto. (redistribution from the Aristocracy, church, government, RSPB and National trust to name a few)

Forced distribution of land is good in principle, difficult to do but worth pursuing. You will find that many of the Aristocracy have sold their land already to Oil sheiks, and Russian Billionaires.

 

[BritManToo]

2 hours ago, vogie said:

t would seem it is the Labour voters that are deficient in the old grey matter department.

Did they all vote for Brexit?

[BritManToo]

8 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

Forced distribution of land is good in principle, difficult to do but worth pursuing. You will find that many of the Aristocracy have sold their land already to Oil sheiks, and Russian Billionaires.

 

Google 'top land owners in the UK', the top 50 are almost all Dukes and lords.

 

Not difficult to do, grab all the land from those owning more than 50 acres, give every Brit citizen an acre with the right to live on it. Shoot those who protest.

[Nigel Garvie]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Google 'top land owners in the UK', the top 50 are almost all Dukes and lords.

 

Not difficult to do, grab all the land from those owning more than 50 acres, give every Brit citizen an acre with the right to live on it. Shoot those who protest.

I happily stand corrected, I suppose I was relying too much on my personal experience of seeing what happened to Highland estates, rather than speaking to Mr Google for a more general picture.

 

Isn't shooting a bit too quick and painless?

[MRToMRT]

57 minutes ago, david555 said:

 

Oh no ….not that  all over again.....that's not fair play …..

I deleted it because it would be an "extension" rather than a revocation of article 50. I realized I was wrong.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

Back to the topic, which is yet another Brexit one. I would have hoped that responses would be few and far between, but now they're veering off course.

 

I believe Johnson wants a deal that would be agreed by parliament, but there's little doubt unless a solution to the backstop is found and approved by the EU, Johnson would be heading on a collision course with parliament.  

 

And that would see the end of his tenure as PM without a doubt. Why? Mainly because the prospect of a no-deal would be constitutionally unacceptable by parliament, and if he ignores that and pushes through a no-deal by hook or by crook, the ramifications would blow Britain apart.

 

Best of luck...

 

 

Why on earth would you think the responses be few and far between, bearing in mind even more posters from EU countries than the UK seem to be posting on these various brexit threads - and all the threads receive more than a few posts!  But I can understand that you were hoping this would be the case.....

 

But to respond to your main point, I do agree that the ramifications one way or another will be significant.

 

We disagree insofar as I think the ramifications of parliament forcing remain, will far outweigh the ramifications of actually leaving.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Well the only comparison I can see is that Holland and the UK had referendums on the EU. The difference is the UK government have accepted the peoples decision where the Dutch government totally ignored it. Very democratic. I guess that's why you have mentioned the UK can revoke article 50. no thanks we believe in democracy.

 

Is that why you are so interested in the Brexit threads as you are a serial poster, although usually slating the UK and telling us all we have made a huge mistake.

 

I am glad you accept we are leaving. Because we are. Shame your country didn't have the backbone to do the same.

Whilst I agree about referendums that were against the EU having to be voted on again.... I'm not as confident as to the UK govt. genuinely accepting the referendum result....

 

IMO they're still looking for a BRINO agreement that they can sell to the electorate.

 

'Don't count your chickens until they've hatched' springs to mind ☹️.

[DannyCarlton]

4 minutes ago, <deleted> dasterdly said:

We disagree insofar as I think the ramifications of parliament forcing remain, will far outweigh the ramifications of actually leaving.

It won't be parliament forcing remain it will be the people via a confirmatory vote.

 

If and when we decide to remain, the whole sorry episode will be quickly forgotten as we return to the status quo and get on with building a better future for our children.

 

If, God forbid, we did leave, we would be constantly reminded of what a terrible mistake we made, as we see the economy, employment and standards slowly descend to those of a 3rd world country.

[dick dasterdly]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

I have no issue in leaving the EU with a deal and a transitional period. That is the sensible course of action. And it could prompt both the UK and the EU to reevaluate how they interact going forward. Clearly, this needs much work on both sides to move successfully into the future. 

 

On the other hand, I do have an issue with a no-deal. Under no circumstances could I support a possible break up of the UK, and if a no deal occurred I would welcome the GE  - and a change of government- that would follow.

If the EU had any sense it would have realised that a multitude of reforms were needed - but instead they decided the best idea was to become even more obstinate.....

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, neverceasetobeamazed said:

Wishful thinking.  Time really is limited.   The only window of opportunity is shown on this graphic:

 

The vote of confidence, should it be tabled will not succeed as the Pro-EU conservatives, Independents and about 40 Labour Party members will not support it.

 

I admire your bravado, but in reality there are no fairies at the bottom of the garden!

 

Plus the Pro-EU Conservatives have I understand, decided to wait until the end of September to see if it looks like Boris can get a deal before attempting to legislate against a no-deal in the light of the comments from Angela Merkel and the reported comments yesterday of Mr Macron in which the French President suggested the EU Withdrawal Agreement could after all be amended to allow the UK to quit the bloc with a deal.

 

Apparently it is reported that the concession saw the Prime Minister raise his hands in the air in apparent triumph on his return to Downing Street from his talks in Paris.  Mr Macron, in a seeming shift from his hard-line refusal to consider any renegotiation of the Withdrawal Agreement, conceded an “intelligent” solution to break the deadlock over the Irish border backstop could be found with “goodwill” on both sides. 

 

 

Of course your graphic doesn't include the fact that, at the request of government, the EU will agree to extend the date beyond Oct. 31st.

 

Also, your presumption that the vote of no confidence will fail, is seriously flawed it will be backed by just about every MP apart from some, but not all, Tories.

 

As for Boris's trip to Europe, uour version of events is just a fantasy. Merkel gave Boris 30 days to come up with an alternative to the backstop (which is an impossibility, even Boris postiulated that it would take him 2 years) or the backstop stays. Macron point blank told Boris that the backstop stays.

[DannyCarlton]

12 minutes ago, <deleted> dasterdly said:

If the EU had any sense it would have realised that a multitude of reforms were needed - but instead they decided the best idea was to become even more obstinate.....

Agreed. And UK could have played a big part in implementing those reforms if it decides to remain. Better standing inside the tent pissing out than outside the tent pissing in.

[dick dasterdly]

24 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

It won't be parliament forcing remain it will be the people via a confirmatory vote.

 

If and when we decide to remain, the whole sorry episode will be quickly forgotten as we return to the status quo and get on with building a better future for our children.

 

If, God forbid, we did leave, we would be constantly reminded of what a terrible mistake we made, as we see the economy, employment and standards slowly descend to those of a 3rd world country.

I've no doubt you believe all of the above....

 

Personally, I'm equally sure that parliament forcing remain (whether it be by parliamentary measures, or another referendum with the options of 1) accept deal 2) remain) - will lead to simmering resentment for a long time to come.

 

But as I've said for a long time now - politicians clearly can't be trusted, so another referendum on whether to accept the  politicians 'deal' or leave with no deal is probably a good idea.

 

Unfortunately there is no time for this anymore, so we will have to wait until the Boris/EU deal (that I'm pretty sure will be accepted by parliament) - and then see the reaction of the electorate at the next GE.