TM30 or TM28 or both?

[phetchy]

This is doing my head in.  Can anyone please tell me which procedure to adopt under the following circumstances -

 

I live in a house in Pattaya owned by my wife.  I am going to the UK for 3 weeks in Oct/Nov and my wife will be going to her village up country, where we (she) also have a house.  When I re-enter Thailand, I am heading straight to the house in Pattaya for two or three days before going up to the village and stay there for a week and then return to Pattaya with my wife.

 

I will of course put the Pattaya address on the TM6, but do I immediately report my return to Thailand at Pattaya Immigration with a TM28 completed by myself, or do I present a TM30 with copies of the required docs (and power of attorney if necessary) completed and post dated by my wife prior to her going up country, or do I give them both a TM28 and TM30?   

 

Just to make it more complicated, do I take a TM28 and or TM30 to the local police station nearest to the wife's village for my weeks "out of Province" stay and then report again to Pattaya immigration in a week's time?  I'm tempted to forget this scenario as Immigration will be none the wiser of my trip to the village as there will be no hotel stay to link me to. 

 

Any advice much appreciated.

[DrJack54]

I would do nothing. 

Do you need attend imm office any time soon? Extension etc

Edited August 22, 2019 by DrJack54

[Peterw42]

OP, which immigration office will you be visiting in the future for 90 day/extension. if its jomtien, they dont ask or check if a TM30 has been done.

If you really want to comply, do a TM30 for the office you will be visiting. If no plans to visit up-country immigration, no need to do a TM30 there.

Pattaya will have no idea you went to another place for a week (no report filed) then came back.

 

Forget about TM28, its not enfourced, asked for, required.

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Peterw42

[4MyEgo]

32 minutes ago, phetchy said:

Can anyone please tell me which procedure to adopt

When you re-enter Thailand, you have to go and do your TM30 at your local immigration, usually within 24 hours.

 

I wouldn't worry about the village, as you said, no one knows and your not staying in a hotel, that said, their law says you must report to them every time you return from another province that you have stayed at for more than 24 hours, so that call is yours, worst case scenario, you get fined if they somehow fined out, "up to you" as they say.

Edited August 22, 2019 by 4MyEgo

[Martyp]

The TM28 is used only if you change your permanent residence. If you were to sell your condo in Pattaya and move into another condo then you would file a TM28. Otherwise you are supposed to file a TM30 each time you stay overnight at a new location. Whether or not TM30 is required for travel within Thailand depends on your local Immigration office. Travel to a house in the country is something no one is going to know about unless you have some interaction with the police.

[phetchy]

Thanks folks.

 

I thought that the best option would be to report with TM30, filled in by the wife before I leave LoS, at my usual reporting office in Soi 5 Jomtien on my return and forget registering my trip up country.  As a backstop if I do get stopped and questioned as to my movements, I will now always have a completed undated TM30 in the car so if I'm stopped going to or returning from the village, I can say "Oh yes officer, of course I will report as soon as I get there".  Hopefully the adage that bull**** baffles brains is global and might see me through. 

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by phetchy
apologies for indecorous language

[jackdd]

When you arrive at the house in Pattaya your wife has to submit a TM30 for you within 24 hours

Technically the owner / housemaster / possessor of the house in the village would have to report you there with a TM30, and when you go back to Pattaya your wife has to report you again with a TM30

As others suggested, just don't do the report in the village (they will probably not do it anyway), nobody will care and then you don't have to do a new one when you are in Pattaya

TM28 is not enforced, even though i saw a post by somebody who claimed he was fined for a missing TM28, but maybe he just mixed this up with the TM30, because it seems a bit odd that he is so far the only person who i've heard of.

 

19 minutes ago, phetchy said:

I will now always have a completed undated TM30 in the car so if I'm stopped going to or returning from the village, I can say "Oh yes officer, of course I will report as soon as I get there".  Hopefully the adage that bull**** baffles brains is global and might see me through. 

A regular police officer won't know about TM30 and also won't care.

[Jumbo1968]

21 minutes ago, jackdd said:

When you arrive at the house in Pattaya your wife has to submit a TM30 for you within 24 hours

Technically the owner / housemaster / possessor of the house in the village would have to report you there with a TM30, and when you go back to Pattaya your wife has to report you again with a TM30

As others suggested, just don't do the report in the village (they will probably not do it anyway), nobody will care and then you don't have to do a new one when you are in Pattaya

TM28 is not enforced, even though i saw a post by somebody who claimed he was fined for a missing TM28, but maybe he just mixed this up with the TM30, because it seems a bit odd that he is so far the only person who i've heard of.

 

A regular police officer won't know about TM30 and also won't care.

I was going to be fined for not doing a TM28 at Jomtien 3 years ago, 3500 baht but after ‘detaining’ me upstairs for nearly 3 hours and also going too the ATM for the money they let me off.

I do a TM28 as requested by Jomtien every time I come back to Thailand from the U.K. even though I return too the same address.

The owner lives in Germany so has no idea of my comings and goings so I cover my backside by doing a TM28.

[phetchy]

2 minutes ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I do a TM28 as requested by Jomtien every time I come back to Thailand from the U.K. even though I return too the same address.

The owner lives in Germany so has no idea of my comings and goings so I cover my backside by doing a TM28.

 

30 minutes ago, jackdd said:

When you arrive at the house in Pattaya your wife has to submit a TM30 for you within 24 hours

Hence my dilemna. To TM28 or to TM30 - that is the question.  If I submit a TM30 on my wife's behalf, she will be 350Kms away (and I will) for the next week if anything is queried.. 

[sirineou]

 This is ridiculous. Poor Op does not even know what he needs to do anymore.

I am married to a lovely Thai lady for about 13 years now so i calculate that I have being coming to Thailand for about 15 years now. As the OP , we own our own house (wife does) and after her parents passed away , we own the house in the village. 

Lately we have being coming to Thailand twise a year. I fill the litle card  on the plane , stating where we will be staying (our house)  is that the TM30? never really looked at it twice.  While in Thailand, we travel everywhere, I don't know what the hotels do, but I never filled or reported anything, Sometimes we  stay at small local hotels, Wife goes in, gets a room, we go to the room and sleep, no one asked for my passport, except major resorts as when we went to Krabi. Every time we  fly home, we spend the night at a hotel near the airport in Bangkok, 

Wife checks in while I wait by the bags , we never give them my passport, so how can they report me? 

As I said we have being doing this for over 15 years, Not sure is I have being lucky so far , but if I have to report every litle move, it would be a major hussle. 

I go to Italy where my sister lives, other than my arrival i don't report everywhere we go. (we take one or two day trips all the time), same in Greece where my brother is retired, I arrive there, fill my litle ,where i stay .card, and that's it. We travel to the Islands, to the summer homes etc, no one ever said a thing.

Same, same in many countries I have traveled in.

IMO this is a very strange situation in Thailand.

All these new requirements are another nail in the coffin of my full time retirement in Thailand. TM30s , bank deposits, visa extensions, inconsistent immigration rules, health insurance requirements etc (no one seems to know what they need to do anymore) 

Might even sell the house there if I can, and buy a litle place near my brother in Greece. Who wants all these hassles in  their golden years. 

I have being reading these threads for months now, I still don't know what i need to do to be legal.

End of rant.

[Jumbo1968]

52 minutes ago, phetchy said:

 

Hence my dilemna. To TM28 or to TM30 - that is the question.  If I submit a TM30 on my wife's behalf, she will be 350Kms away (and I will) for the next week if anything is queried.. 

You could do what I do a TM28, if your wife never goes near Immigration it’s not a problem.

Mm just thought it might not be possible as you would need a rental agreement of course you can buy a rental agreement book and complete it yourself signed by your wife.

I bought one from the Stationary shop next to Harbor Mall as my owner lives in Germany, her sister filled it in.

I did a TM28 the other day, copy of rental agreement, TM28 form, copy of passport photograph page, copy passport page showing arrival date and copy of TM6 arrival card.

It was checked at reception and the bottom part returned to me, I stapled it in my passport myself.

[AgMech Cowboy]

I did a 90 day border bounce on Tuesday, took a TM-28 with copy of passport, copy of TM6, entry stamp copy, copy of Non-O visa, TM-30, signed copy of my wife's ID card and the appropriate copy of her house blue book page to Pathum Thani immigration yesterday. IO said thank you and gave me a signed receipt. I live with my wife. No rental agreement is required. The wife did not attend and there were no questions.  Waited in line for 10 minutes (at the most).

 

If you don't stay in a motel/hotel there is no need to contact the out of town immigration.

Edited August 22, 2019 by AgMech Cowboy

[offset]

2 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

You could do what I do a TM28, if your wife never goes near Immigration it’s not a problem.

Mm just thought it might not be possible as you would need a rental agreement of course you can buy a rental agreement book and complete it yourself signed by your wife.

I bought one from the Stationary shop next to Harbor Mall as my owner lives in Germany, her sister filled it in.

I did a TM28 the other day, copy of rental agreement, TM28 form, copy of passport photograph page, copy passport page showing arrival date and copy of TM6 arrival card.

It was checked at reception and the bottom part returned to me, I stapled it in my passport myself.

Hua Hin are asking for a copy of blue book and owners ID when doing a TM28, when I asked why they changed the requirement because they not ask for them before the IO said anybody could make a rental agreement so it seems they are onto this scam 

[Jumbo1968]

31 minutes ago, offset said:

Hua Hin are asking for a copy of blue book and owners ID when doing a TM28, when I asked why they changed the requirement because they not ask for them before the IO said anybody could make a rental agreement so it seems they are onto this scam 

I have a genuine Rental Agreement albeit I supplied the Rental Book.

[jackdd]

1 hour ago, offset said:

Hua Hin are asking for a copy of blue book and owners ID when doing a TM28, when I asked why they changed the requirement because they not ask for them before the IO said anybody could make a rental agreement so it seems they are onto this scam 

Then do your TM28 at the local police station, probably they have no idea what it is and will accept it without any further documentation and you are good to go.

Edited August 22, 2019 by jackdd

[puck2]

3 hours ago, sirineou said:

<-------->.

IMO this is a very strange situation in Thailand.

All these new requirements are another nail in the coffin of my full time retirement in Thailand. TM30s , bank deposits, visa extensions, inconsistent immigration rules, health insurance requirements etc (no one seems to know what they need to do anymore) 

Might even sell the house there if I can, and buy a litle place near my brother in Greece. Who wants all these hassles in  their golden years. 

I have being reading these threads for months now, I still don't know what i need to do to be legal.

End of rant.

You write exactly in which direction the „elected“ military regime is going now.

 

Headline: nonsense bureaucracy: Exercised in March of this year. The secret order to the immigration offices to control if TM30 are filed. If not punish the „perpetrators“:

 

As already discussed here on TV the TM30 is as needless as a gun on the moon. Before March it rarely was demanded by the offices. And if, then only by the bureaucrats under the principle the law is the law … even if it was/is absolute nonsense.

 

The TM30 nonsense was strangely and illogically justified by the IMO. By filing TM30 the Thai bureaucracy would be able to catch the criminals among the expats („bad farangs out“). Must I explain how stupid such a conjecture is? Would a falang criminal tell the IMO: oh, here I am??!

 

But this is only an assertion of the IMO. The real reason for this bureaucratic nonsense – it is a money maker. Especially Pib's comments about the Chaeng Watana office (#10+#13 in threat: Receipt when TM30 filed online) and many, many others enlighten me: it's the money, stxxxx …. !

 

Milk the cow until the milk disappears!

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Then do your TM28 at the local police station, probably they have no idea what it is and will accept it without any further documentation and you are good to go.

I assume that's a joke.

[Jumbo1968]

5 minutes ago, puck2 said:

You write exactly in which direction the „elected“ military regime is going now.

 

Headline: nonsense bureaucracy: Exercised in March of this year. The secret order to the immigration offices to control if TM30 are filed. If not punish the „perpetrators“:

 

As already discussed here on TV the TM30 is as needless as a gun on the moon. Before March it rarely was demanded by the offices. And if, then only by the bureaucrats under the principle the law is the law … even if it was/is absolute nonsense.

 

The TM30 nonsense was strangely and illogically justified by the IMO. By filing TM30 the Thai bureaucracy would be able to catch the criminals among the expats („bad farangs out“). Must I explain how stupid such a conjecture is? Would a falang criminal tell the IMO: oh, here I am??!

 

But this is only an assertion of the IMO. The real reason for this bureaucratic nonsense – it is a money maker. Especially Pib's comments about the Chaeng Watana office (#10+#13 in threat: Receipt when TM30 filed online) and many, many others enlighten me: it's the money, stxxxx …. !

 

Milk the cow until the milk disappears!

The TM30 was enforced to catch owners who were not licensed and who weren’t declaring their income too the taxman.

Unfortunately the expat community have been caught up in this, it should only apply too business owners and if they don’t do a TM30 it shouldn’t be the expats responsibility.

[Max69xl]

13 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

OP, which immigration office will you be visiting in the future for 90 day/extension. if its jomtien, they dont ask or check if a TM30 has been done.

If you really want to comply, do a TM30 for the office you will be visiting. If no plans to visit up-country immigration, no need to do a TM30 there.

Pattaya will have no idea you went to another place for a week (no report filed) then came back.

 

Forget about TM28, its not enfourced, asked for, required.

 

TM28 = Change of Address, meaning changing permanent address, for example when moving to another province. 

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

I was going to be fined for not doing a TM28 at Jomtien 3 years ago, 3500 baht but after ‘detaining’ me upstairs for nearly 3 hours and also going too the ATM for the money they let me off.

I do a TM28 as requested by Jomtien every time I come back to Thailand from the U.K. even though I return too the same address.

The owner lives in Germany so has no idea of my comings and goings so I cover my backside by doing a TM28.

You are confusing the TM28 with the TM30. TM28 is used for Change of Address,meaning the permanent residency. When coming back from abroad to same address you or someone else submit only the TM30 at your local Immigration office.

[Jumbo1968]

31 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

You are confusing the TM28 with the TM30. TM28 is used for Change of Address,meaning the permanent residency. When coming back from abroad to same address you or someone else submit only the TM30 at your local Immigration office.

The TM 28 states at the top in capital letters,

FORM FOR ALIENS TO NOTIFY THEIR CHANGE OF ADDRESS OR THEIR STAY IN THE PROVINCE FOR OVER 24 HOURS.

 

If leave Thailand when I come back I have to inform Immigration of my stay which will be more than 24 hours even though I am returning too the same address.

If I had an Extension of Stay/Retirement Visa I would not have to but because I am on a Multi Entry Non O Visa I have too as I was informed by Jomtien.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2019 by Jumbo1968
Addition

[Max69xl]

4 hours ago, sirineou said:

 This is ridiculous. Poor Op does not even know what he needs to do anymore.

I am married to a lovely Thai lady for about 13 years now so i calculate that I have being coming to Thailand for about 15 years now. As the OP , we own our own house (wife does) and after her parents passed away , we own the house in the village. 

Lately we have being coming to Thailand twise a year. I fill the litle card  on the plane , stating where we will be staying (our house)  is that the TM30? never really looked at it twice.  While in Thailand, we travel everywhere, I don't know what the hotels do, but I never filled or reported anything, Sometimes we  stay at small local hotels, Wife goes in, gets a room, we go to the room and sleep, no one asked for my passport, except major resorts as when we went to Krabi. Every time we  fly home, we spend the night at a hotel near the airport in Bangkok, 

Wife checks in while I wait by the bags , we never give them my passport, so how can they report me? 

As I said we have being doing this for over 15 years, Not sure is I have being lucky so far , but if I have to report every litle move, it would be a major hussle. 

I go to Italy where my sister lives, other than my arrival i don't report everywhere we go. (we take one or two day trips all the time), same in Greece where my brother is retired, I arrive there, fill my litle ,where i stay .card, and that's it. We travel to the Islands, to the summer homes etc, no one ever said a thing.

Same, same in many countries I have traveled in.

IMO this is a very strange situation in Thailand.

All these new requirements are another nail in the coffin of my full time retirement in Thailand. TM30s , bank deposits, visa extensions, inconsistent immigration rules, health insurance requirements etc (no one seems to know what they need to do anymore) 

Might even sell the house there if I can, and buy a litle place near my brother in Greece. Who wants all these hassles in  their golden years. 

I have being reading these threads for months now, I still don't know what i need to do to be legal.

End of rant.

The law behind the TM30 is very simple: EVERY foreigner has to be reported where they are staying,at a hotel, guesthouse or in a house owned by the wife or family. Who is submitting the TM30 is not that important,but again,the law says it has to be submitted. Recently the new boss for immigration in BKK ordered other immigration offices to start enforcing the law. Many hotels and guesthouses are not licensed and therefore never reports customers. If you're staying at a proper hotel,they will for sure ask for your passport,and they should not accept your wife checking you in. If they don't ask for your passport,then don't bother, it's not really your problem.

When coming back from abroad,you are also by law demanded to submit the TM30 once more. Annoying,yes,but I'm just explaining the law.

Edited August 22, 2019 by Max69xl
Typo

[jackdd]

34 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

I assume that's a joke.

No, why should it?

 

22 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

TM28 is used for Change of Address,meaning the permanent residency.

We (people without permanent residency status) don't have a permanent residence, because we only in Thailand temporarily, and because we don't have one, we also can't change it. All we have is a "current address".

If this current address changes (you stay somewhere for more than 24 hours), you (people on retirement and dependent visas / extension and some others) have to inform your local police station so that they know that a foreigner is staying in their area. This is the purpose of Immigration act 37 (3) and (4), using form TM28.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

No, why should it?

 

We (people without permanent residency status) don't have a permanent residence, because we only in Thailand temporarily, and because we don't have one, we also can't change it. All we have is a "current address".

If this current address changes (you stay somewhere for more than 24 hours), you (people on retirement and dependent visas / extension and some others) have to inform your local police station so that they know that a foreigner is staying in their area. This is the purpose of Immigration act 37 (3) and (4), using form TM28.

You must be smoking good stuff. Police stations have zero to do with everything related to immigration. 

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You must be smoking good stuff. Police stations have zero to do with everything related to immigration. 

You should read more and post less, immigration act section 37 (3):

Quote

Shall notify the police official of the local police station where such alien resides, within twenty–four hours from the time of arrival. In the case of change in residence in which new residence is not located the same area with the former police stations, such alien must notify the police official of the police station for that area within twenty-four hours from the time of arrival.

As we can see, the law says police station (in also says this in the original Thai version, the translation is about correct), not immigration division or office. So obviously this is supposed to be done at the local police station.

Edited August 22, 2019 by jackdd

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

The law behind the TM30 is very simple: EVERY foreigner has to be reported where they are staying,at a hotel, guesthouse or in a house owned by the wife or family. Who is submitting the TM30 is not that important,but again,the law says it has to be submitted. Recently the new boss for immigration in BKK ordered other immigration offices to start enforcing the law. Many hotels and guesthouses are not licensed and therefore never reports customers. If you're staying at a proper hotel,they will for sure ask for your passport,and they should not accept your wife checking you in. If they don't ask for your passport,then don't bother, it's not really your problem.

When coming back from abroad,you are also by law demanded to submit the TM30 once more. Annoying,yes,but I'm just explaining the law.

One part of your post sensible. "The new boss".

Think his name BIG ORG. Replaced BIG JOKE. 

Thinking he will be replaced soon. 

[DrJack54]

1 minute ago, jackdd said:

You should read more and post less, immigration act section 37 (3):

 

 

As we can see, the law says police station (in also says this in the original Thai version, the translation is about correct), not immigration division or office. So obviously this is supposed to be done at the local police station.

You cannot notify tm30 at local police. 

[Max69xl]

8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

No, why should it?

 

We (people without permanent residency status) don't have a permanent residence, because we only in Thailand temporarily, and because we don't have one, we also can't change it. All we have is a "current address".

If this current address changes (you stay somewhere for more than 24 hours), you (people on retirement and dependent visas / extension and some others) have to inform your local police station so that they know that a foreigner is staying in their area. This is the purpose of Immigration act 37 (3) and (4), using form TM28.

If you move to another province you need to submit the TM28 to the local Immigration,because you change your address, and the TM30 has to be submitted for staying at the new address. You can call it current address if you want,but if you have a yellow housebook, it's also your "permanent address". It has nothing to do with a PR visa.

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You cannot notify tm30 at local police. 

Of course not, we were talking about TM28, not about TM30. As i suggested before, read more, post less, then you don't miss such details.

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Of course not, we were talking about TM28, not about TM30. As i suggested before, read more, post less, then you don't miss such details.

So I move from bkk address to live in udon thani then I drop into cop shop for chin wag and file tm28. Possible?.

Happy to stand corrected.

Personally I would go to udon imm