Is all of Thailand polluted now?

[NCC1701A]

5 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

 but I don't feel the need to look for them, or photograph them.

why not? i do. i want everyone to see it. do you think the people who live in the houses want to look at the filth what is piled up outside their window? do they have a choice? no because of the filthy pigs. 

 

you are lucky you live in a clean place. trash everywhere you look here. impossible not to see it. it is part of the soil now. you can't take a walk without seeing this under your feet.  

 

 

 

[villagefarang]

This is what my area roads look like.

 

 

 

[NCC1701A]

25 minutes ago, villagefarang said:

This is what my area roads look like.

you are lucky you live in a nice area. where do you live?

[jvs]

I went on a trip a few years ago,took the truck because the road was supposed to be rough,

when i got there there was a sign saying 4x4 only.Going downhil was ok but it was already dark.

Not a smart thing to do because it was the end of the world,but not really.an old copper mine it had not been used for years but people still living there,very quiet and beautiful but there was also garbage!!Too bad.

[villagefarang]

14 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

you are lucky you live in a nice area. where do you live?

East of Chiangrai. 

[Dumbastheycome]

The   world is polluted. What  can  be seen is  a lesser percentage  of  what is  .

Hell  yeaah ! 

 

My generation has compelled  me to  impose a  horrible legacy to  my  family's future  generations  if  they  can survive the deceptions  of  the  current times.

[billd766]

On 8/23/2019 at 9:38 AM, Jimbo2014 said:

Its worse than  you can imagine.  A horror movie.  Garbage on all the beaches and around the resort areas, toxic food in the supermarkets.  Im dreading November to February again, the whole of Asia gets blanketed in a thick smog owing to open burning of agricultural fields.  The education level is terrible.  On the one day a month they have no plastic bags in supermarkets I hear people in lines complain, even though everything else is layered in 3 layers of thick plastic.  Paradise lost.  We holiday in places like Australia now.  Its a shock how clean our own countries are by comparison.

That is not always true. My son and anybody who travels in my pickup KNOWS that the trash goes either into the trash bag in the pickup or the bin when we get home.

 

In my first marriage in the UK my family were taught to do the same and carry on the tradition.

 

People of all ages and all nationalities need to be taught what to do, over the years if necessary and after a while it becomes automatic. 

[Isaanbiker]

I prefer areas like Chiang Mai where it's so obvious what's causing the bad air.

 

 On the other hand there are so many plastic factories in Rayong province and their products' waste is mostly invisible and people die of cancer. One of them was my brother in law's wife not long ago.

 

  They talk about the environment at schools, but nobody really cares.

 

Some people just throw their garbage out where they want, others make an oil change into a rice field, without knowing what damage they do to the environment. 

 

  With the "new" goverment, the chances got from slim to nil to see light at the end of the tunnel. 

 

   

[Isaanbiker]

31 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That is not always true. My son and anybody who travels in my pickup KNOWS that the trash goes either into the trash bag in the pickup or the bin when we get home.

 

In my first marriage in the UK my family were taught to do the same and carry on the tradition.

 

People of all ages and all nationalities need to be taught what to do, over the years if necessary and after a while it becomes automatic. 

But kids at schools might do English projects covering the topic and the used material later lands somewhere. Laughable, but it's too crass. 

 

    The teachers aren't educated enough to know the problems, how could they teach their students something they have no idea of? 

[Isaanbiker]

1 hour ago, NCC1701A said:

why not? i do. i want everyone to see it. do you think the people who live in the houses want to look at the filth what is piled up outside their window? do they have a choice? no because of the filthy pigs. 

 

you are lucky you live in a clean place. trash everywhere you look here. impossible not to see it. it is part of the soil now. you can't take a walk without seeing this under your feet.  

 

 

 

The last photo looks like the area got hit by a flood. Could that be?

 

   Also our area got hit a couple of years ago and you could see such hills of garbage everywhere. But not for long. 

[Jack james]

They have all this money for roads, but dump sewage in ocean, and cannot put garbage bins on streets. Stupid!

[NCC1701A]

1 hour ago, Isaanbiker said:

The last photo looks like the area got hit by a flood. Could that be?

 

   Also our area got hit a couple of years ago and you could see such hills of garbage everywhere. But not for long. 

no. it is trash dumped on the road. very common here.

[uhuh]

Just now, Dolphin99 said:

Not that I have any intention to mount a defense of the eternal virtues of Chinese civilization, but frankly, I can count the number of foreigners I have met that speak Chinese better than an epileptic deafmute on a single hand.  The fact that your "source" is a 50 year old book is also not doing your case any wonders.

 

I reiterate, people like you are very rarely complaining about the problems blacks, muslims, or latinos are causing in our societies.  But you are all plenty happy to clap to war hawks talking about fighting the Chinese government, or occasionally bombing one of Israel's enemies like Syria or Iran.

 

Chinese are about the only ethnic group you can openly call evil and predatory on television.  They are far from perfect, but again, I challenge you to say the same sort of thing about blacks. Feel free to try and restore my faith you are an honest person.

Why should i say anything bad about black people? I don't know any!

But i know a lot of Chinese,  and speak their language maybe better than English.

 

My source is not a book,  my source is decades of immersion in China.

 

Yes, Bo Yangs book is old,  and young Chinese do not always fit his description.  But when I read the book, and told my Chinese friends that I didn't agree with Bo Yang, it was they who told me that his description was still valid. I still feel things are improving,  though. 

 

BTW I am certainly not clapping to the likes of Trump or Bolton. 

[Dolphin99]

9 hours ago, uhuh said:

Why should i say anything bad about black people? I don't know any!

But i know a lot of Chinese,  and speak their language maybe better than English.

 

My source is not a book,  my source is decades of immersion in China.

 

Yes, Bo Yangs book is old,  and young Chinese do not always fit his description.  But when I read the book, and told my Chinese friends that I didn't agree with Bo Yang, it was they who told me that his description was still valid. I still feel things are improving,  though. 

 

BTW I am certainly not clapping to the likes of Trump or Bolton. 

Not that I support Trump but he is the only president since Carter that has rejected wholescale military escalation, and has been derided by the "anti war left" for it.  Obama oversaw the invasion of libya fyi.

 

No country is even remotely the same as 50 years ago. You sound woefully out of touch, like the pathetic dying boomers talking about how good the economy is today, because it was good 50 years ago.  Should we use Thailand's environment from 50 years ago as evidence that no heavy metals pollution is destroying Rayong?

 

China has its share of problems, and they certainly arent going to go away any time soon, but all of this open hatred towards Chinese is just talk from cowards who feel empowered by the military sponsored media to racistly attack people who won't fight back.

There are plenty of other groups of people more selfish than the Chinese, but you are a coward, and you know it is verboten to criticize them.

[Jimbo2014]

12 hours ago, billd766 said:

That is not always true. My son and anybody who travels in my pickup KNOWS that the trash goes either into the trash bag in the pickup or the bin when we get home.

 

In my first marriage in the UK my family were taught to do the same and carry on the tradition.

 

People of all ages and all nationalities need to be taught what to do, over the years if necessary and after a while it becomes automatic. 

My statement is largely true - for the vast majority of Thais.  Unfortunately the government is very slow to do anything.  'Light' awareness campaigns have started but they are not backed by any form of action or policy.  Its always kick the can down the road in Thailand.  If the government was serious they would implement strict measures.  A concerted public awareness campaign backed by severe fines enforced by police that actually do something.  Companies and resorts guilty of dumping would be subject to criminal and civil charges.  Low hanging fruit like plastic straws and cups would be banned.  I dont see this happening.

[Dolphin99]

2 hours ago, Jimbo2014 said:

My statement is largely true - for the vast majority of Thais.  Unfortunately the government is very slow to do anything.  'Light' awareness campaigns have started but they are not backed by any form of action or policy.  Its always kick the can down the road in Thailand.  If the government was serious they would implement strict measures.  A concerted public awareness campaign backed by severe fines enforced by police that actually do something.  Companies and resorts guilty of dumping would be subject to criminal and civil charges.  Low hanging fruit like plastic straws and cups would be banned.  I dont see this happening.

Industrial fines cannot even be properly levied in Europe, so I think your skepticism is warranted.  I think that indicates that fines are not the appropriate solution though.

 

FWIW industrial pollution is probably the bigger threat, though people here dont seem as keen on the issue as plastics. I suppose I should plan to stay far south.

[Jimbo2014]

5 hours ago, Dolphin99 said:

Industrial fines cannot even be properly levied in Europe, so I think your skepticism is warranted.  I think that indicates that fines are not the appropriate solution though.

 

FWIW industrial pollution is probably the bigger threat, though people here dont seem as keen on the issue as plastics. I suppose I should plan to stay far south.

For air pollution - Unfortunately here in Bkk and across Asia between December and March the main causes of pollution are: Poorly maintained (and over sold) diesel vehicles, open burning of crops, cremation of bodies and factories.  Factories are only part of the problem unfortunately.  We wouldnt live here if we didnt have to for 4 years.  Accountable inspections of industry and testing of water and air samples are effective in America, Canada - but some companies fall through the gap and regulation is lax in some industries such as mining.  Staying south sounds like a healthier bet.

[4675636b596f75]

1 minute ago, Jimbo2014 said:

cremation of bodies

I really wish you had kept that to yourself.

[Jimbo2014]

2 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

I really wish you had kept that to yourself.

LOL... Sadly they are highly toxic "In addition to harmless compounds such as water vapor, emissions include carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, nitrogen oxide, sulphur dioxide, hydrogen chloride gas, hydrogen fluoride, mercury vapour . Organic compounds such as benzenes, furans, acetone are also emitted and these react with the hydrogen chloride and hydrogen fluoride under combustion conditions to form polychlorinated dibenzodioxins (PCDDs) and polychlorinated dibenzofurans (PCDFs) both of which are carcinogens. A study by the Cremation Association of North America has found that filtering crematorium fumes has little effect on the toxins released.  However, when compared to yearly toxin release world wide, crematoriums contribute only a very small fraction of harmful compounds or greenhouse gases. "

[White Christmas13]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:07 PM, villagefarang said:

The green pollution where I live is just awful.

 

 

it looks like you are the only one living there

[White Christmas13]

6 minutes ago, White Christmas13 said:

it looks like you are the only one living there

 

[villagefarang]

1 hour ago, White Christmas13 said:

it looks like you are the only one living there

We do come across neighbors working in the fields or using the same trails to get to their orchards or rubber trees, but they are usually heading home on some form of motorized vehicle as we are heading out on foot.

 

 

 

 

[White Christmas13]

I could show you a million pictures just a few for a start

[villagefarang]

I have never been to that part of Thailand before.

[Brunolem]

13 hours ago, villagefarang said:

We do come across neighbors working in the fields or using the same trails to get to their orchards or rubber trees, but they are usually heading home on some form of motorized vehicle as we are heading out on foot.

 

 

 

 

How wonderful! 

 

Here in Sisaket and around, the "farmers" have long given up on growing rice in the traditional way (your photos)... they simply throw seeds in their fields in May or June, and hope for the best, freeing more time for daytime sleep in the process... 

 

[villagefarang]

1 minute ago, Brunolem said:

How wonderful! 

 

Here in Sisaket and around, the "farmers" have long given up on growing rice in the traditional way (your photos)... they simply throw seeds in their fields in May or June, and hope for the best, freeing more time for daytime sleep in the process... 

 

Sadly, things are drifting in that direction here as well.  Becoming more mechanized each year as it becomes harder to find people to work the fields.

[Dolphin99]

1 hour ago, villagefarang said:

Sadly, things are drifting in that direction here as well.  Becoming more mechanized each year as it becomes harder to find people to work the fields.

Machine grown crops from industrial countries are often cheaper than from countries that pay farm workers a dollar a day.  I am sure a lot of then would still be able to work the fields if they weren't getting undercut by predatory farming exports from America/Canada/Europe.

 

Thailand has a lot of problems, but I think this one is largely our fault.  We have managed to even outcompete African farm wages, and they make a dollar a day.  It is a race to the bottom

[Brunolem]

2 hours ago, Dolphin99 said:

Machine grown crops from industrial countries are often cheaper than from countries that pay farm workers a dollar a day.  I am sure a lot of then would still be able to work the fields if they weren't getting undercut by predatory farming exports from America/Canada/Europe.

 

Thailand has a lot of problems, but I think this one is largely our fault.  We have managed to even outcompete African farm wages, and they make a dollar a day.  It is a race to the bottom

Rice doesn't have much competition from the West, and machines can be used only to harvest it. 

 

Small farmers lose money when using machines to harvest rice. 

 

Most of them can't afford one, which is only worth for very big farms. 

 

So they have to pay someone to cut their rice, instead of cutting it themselves, by hand, with the help of their extended family and their neighbors, as they did before... a "I scratch your back and you scratch mine" system which worked very well for centuries. 

 

The only thing that farmers gain in using machines to harvest their rice, is time (a day of "work" or less, instead of 2 or 3 weeks), which they already have to much of on their hands. 

 

I have made the calculations for the local farmers, and they agreed with the conclusions, but couldn't resist the prospect of more hammock and less work time, whatever the cost... 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎8‎/‎23‎/‎2019 at 2:38 PM, Jimbo2014 said:

Its worse than  you can imagine.  A horror movie.  Garbage on all the beaches and around the resort areas, toxic food in the supermarkets.  Im dreading November to February again, the whole of Asia gets blanketed in a thick smog owing to open burning of agricultural fields.  The education level is terrible.  On the one day a month they have no plastic bags in supermarkets I hear people in lines complain, even though everything else is layered in 3 layers of thick plastic.  Paradise lost.  We holiday in places like Australia now.  Its a shock how clean our own countries are by comparison.

Your "clean" countries are not unpolluted. It's just less visible. Everything sold in supermarkets is contaminated by chemicals and covered in plastic. We eat the chemicals and excrete them into the sewage- which goes where? The plastic gets put in the bin and goes where?

The ocean is completely polluted, even if we don't see turds floating by. The air is polluted, even if it looks clean. How do you get around?

Humanity is killing itself off, whether by climate change caused by us or just poisoning ourselves.

Is there an answer? Short of a massive catastrophe killing off 75% of the population, I doubt it.

[Jimbo2014]

4 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Your "clean" countries are not unpolluted. It's just less visible. Everything sold in supermarkets is contaminated by chemicals and covered in plastic. We eat the chemicals and excrete them into the sewage- which goes where? The plastic gets put in the bin and goes where?

The ocean is completely polluted, even if we don't see turds floating by. The air is polluted, even if it looks clean. How do you get around?

Humanity is killing itself off, whether by climate change caused by us or just poisoning ourselves.

Is there an answer? Short of a massive catastrophe killing off 75% of the population, I doubt it.

I sadly agree with you.  We are the species that started world war 2 only 21 years after world war one ended.  Watched Chernobyl last night.  Haunting final comments "To be a scientist is to be naive. We are so focused on our search for truth, we fail to consider how few actually want us to find it. But it is always there, whether we can see it or not, whether we choose to or not. The truth doesn't care about our needs or wants. It doesn't care about our governments, our ideologies, our religions. It will lie in wait, for all time."