Retirement Visa - Spend Half the Year Elsewhere?

[donnacha]

If I get a retirement visa, would there be any problem if I actually spend half of each year out of Thailand?

Does the 90-day reporting requirement apply if you are not actually in the country?

Can I simply fly back in and file 90-day reports for each 90 days that I am in Thailand, and renew the retirement visa itself on the same date each year within Thailand?

Thanks in advance for any insights anyone can share.

 

[elviajero]

6 minutes ago, donnacha said:

If I get a retirement visa, would there be any problem if I actually spend half of each year out of Thailand?

A visa, no.

 

An extension of stay, almost certainly not. They are unlikely to deny an application, but they might query why it’s necessary if you don’t live in the country.

 

6 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Does the 90-day reporting requirement apply if you are not actually in the country?

No.

 

6 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Can I simply fly back in and file 90-day reports for each 90 days that I am in Thailand, and renew the retirement visa itself on the same date each year within Thailand?

You can renew the stay permit (extension of stay) at the same time every year.

 

90 day reports are only required if you stay in the country for 90+ days.

[crazygreg44]

When you are on a one-year Extension of Stay Permit based on Retirement,  and leave the country, the 90-day reporting duty stops.

 

The 90-day reporting clock starts again with day number one upon re-entering the country.

 

What you will need is a re-entry permit for each trip abroad to keep your Extension of Stay alive when you re-enter.  There are multiple re-entry permits and single re-entry permits available at your immigration or at some airports

 

Myself I live on EOS based on retirement since 15 years and stay out of the country for 6 months every other year, doing a new EOS every year around the same date

Edited August 22, 2019 by crazygreg44

[lamyai3]

No problem, and in fact it skirts around dealing directly with immigration, as long as you have any necessary re-entry permits. You can extend your retirement visa 30 or 45 days ahead of time depending on your local office. 

 

The issue would be more about the increased expense of having two home bases, as a lot of things (rental, mobile / broadband contracts etc) work to a one year minimum agreement. But if you can afford to cover both, or can find decent rentals on a shorter lease it could be a nice way to live. 

[LomSak27]

Just now, lamyai3 said:

No problem, and in fact it skirts around dealing directly with immigration, as long as you have any necessary re-entry permits. You can extend your retirement visa 30 or 45 days ahead of time depending on your local office. 

 

As Martha Stewart would say ....... 'This Is A Good Thing'    

[donnacha]

Thank you @elviajero, @crazygreg44, @lamyai3, and @LomSak27, I am grateful for your advice and very pleased that what I want to do is possible.

The reasoning behind living with one foot in Thailand and one foot in Europe is that my woman has a pretty good setup in Chiang Mai but, after this year, she recognizes that it is too dangerous to stay there during the burning season. So, our plan is to get out in January, spend 90 days bumming around the Schengen zone, then 90 days in a cottage in Ireland, then back to Thailand for the nice half of the year.

I think we can probably make it work financially and my hunch is that the variety will be stimulating rather than draining. I'm hoping that she can get into a relaxed rhythm and that her online business will keep her occupied wherever we happen to be. I am aware that staying in one place would probably be better for my own business focus but am gambling that changing the scenery on a regular cycle will keep things from getting stale. We'll give it a shot for a few years anyway.

[overherebc]

30 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Thank you @elviajero, @crazygreg44, @lamyai3, and @LomSak27, I am grateful for your advice and very pleased that what I want to do is possible.

The reasoning behind living with one foot in Thailand and one foot in Europe is that my woman has a pretty good setup in Chiang Mai but, after this year, she recognizes that it is too dangerous to stay there during the burning season. So, our plan is to get out in January, spend 90 days bumming around the Schengen zone, then 90 days in a cottage in Ireland, then back to Thailand for the nice half of the year.

I think we can probably make it work financially and my hunch is that the variety will be stimulating rather than draining. I'm hoping that she can get into a relaxed rhythm and that her online business will keep her occupied wherever we happen to be. I am aware that staying in one place would probably be better for my own business focus but am gambling that changing the scenery on a regular cycle will keep things from getting stale. We'll give it a shot for a few years anyway.

What you want to do sounds good.  Hoping to do similar soon.

Re' retirement extension. It obviously means 800,000 baht tied up in Thailand, I take it that's not a problem but you are not allowed to work on retirement extensions, not sure if that's a point for you to consider.

[ICELANDMAN]

The too hot est stressful, I'm also considering living only 6 months in Thailand, a good solution to change food and live in another environment is also good for health.

[donnacha]

2 hours ago, overherebc said:

It obviously means 800,000 baht tied up in Thailand, I take it that's not a problem but you are not allowed to work on retirement extensions, not sure if that's a point for you to consider.

 

Thank you.

 

Yes, the 800K is unfortunate, it would have been lovely to just keep using the tourist visas, but I suppose it doubles as an emergency nest egg tied to the currency of the country I may spend much of the next few decades in.

 

As for working, it is taking a Thai job or soliciting for business client work here that is illegal. There is no law against working on your own projects if they have no economic tie to Thailand. Business people on vacation had been doing that for decades before the Digital Nomads decided they invented it. Writers, too, have a long history of coming here to work on their books. Certainly, no one cares what Mr. Falang Ba is doing on his laptop if he quietly gets on with it.

[MiclB]

'been doing fine with this structure for a long time; no in-country work, etc.  You can almost avoid all 90 day reporting if you watch your calendar closely.

[overherebc]

22 minutes ago, donnacha said:

 

Thank you.

 

Yes, the 800K is unfortunate, it would have been lovely to just keep using the tourist visas, but I suppose it doubles as an emergency nest egg tied to the currency of the country I may spend much of the next few decades in.

 

As for working, it is taking a Thai job or soliciting for business client work here that is illegal. There is no law against working on your own projects if they have no economic tie to Thailand. Business people on vacation had been doing that for decades before the Digital Nomads decided they invented it. Writers, too, have a long history of coming here to work on their books. Certainly, no one cares what Mr. Falang Ba is doing on his laptop if he quietly gets on with it.

Working on line is something many people do. Best understanding is that it's a grey area re' Thai law on the subject. 99% just do it and keep quiet about it and it doesn't seem to raise a problem.

Another actual visa you could  take a look at is the O-A long term visa. You have to get that in your home country though. You can use finances there to support the application. It can last for two years and gives one year entry each time you arrive in Thailand.

eg O-A visa valid from 1/1/2020 to 31/12/2020. You arrive on 4/1/2020 and get stamped in for 365 days. Means if you stay longer than 90 days then you do 90 day reports, and there will be a health insurance requirement, details should be reported on here soon.

( Back to dates. )  If you leave and enter Thailand on 28/12/2020, just before the use by date and enter again on 29/12/2020 you still get stamped in for a year but during that second year if you leave Thailand you need a re-entry permit to keep the second year live.

Re-entry single 1000 baht multi re-entry #800 baht.

 

[OJAS]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

my woman has a pretty good setup in Chiang Mai

Are you married to her, and, if so, is she a Thai national?

 

Assuming “yes” answers to both questions, a further option that you might wish to consider is to obtain a single-entry non-O visa for marriage each year from the Royal Thai embassy or consulate in your home country. You would then be granted a 90-day permission to stay upon your subsequent return to Thailand, which you could, in due course, then extend by a further 60 days for the purposes of visiting her – thus making it possible for you to stay in Thailand for up to 150 days continuously.

 

If 5 months in Thailand, 7 months in Europe would work for you, the only dealings that you would then need to have with the Chiang Mai Immigration Office would be in the form of a 60-day extension application plus single 90-day report each year (subject, of course, to their TM30 requirements having already been complied with as necessary).

[overherebc]

24 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Are you married to her, and, if so, is she a Thai national?

 

Assuming “yes” answers to both questions, a further option that you might wish to consider is to obtain a single-entry non-O visa for marriage each year from the Royal Thai embassy or consulate in your home country. You would then be granted a 90-day permission to stay upon your subsequent return to Thailand, which you could, in due course, then extend by a further 60 days for the purposes of visiting her – thus making it possible for you to stay in Thailand for up to 150 days continuously.

 

If 5 months in Thailand, 7 months in Europe would work for you, the only dealings that you would then need to have with the Chiang Mai Immigration Office would be in the form of a 60-day extension application plus single 90-day report each year (subject, of course, to their TM30 requirements having already been complied with as necessary).

Re the 60 day extension, my local Imm' doesn't mention anything about a 90 day report when I do the 60 extension. Maybe they consider it done as you are getting the 60 days.

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, donnacha said:

Thank you @elviajero, @crazygreg44, @lamyai3, and @LomSak27, I am grateful for your advice and very pleased that what I want to do is possible.

The reasoning behind living with one foot in Thailand and one foot in Europe is that my woman has a pretty good setup in Chiang Mai but, after this year, she recognizes that it is too dangerous to stay there during the burning season. So, our plan is to get out in January, spend 90 days bumming around the Schengen zone, then 90 days in a cottage in Ireland, then back to Thailand for the nice half of the year.

I think we can probably make it work financially and my hunch is that the variety will be stimulating rather than draining. I'm hoping that she can get into a relaxed rhythm and that her online business will keep her occupied wherever we happen to be. I am aware that staying in one place would probably be better for my own business focus but am gambling that changing the scenery on a regular cycle will keep things from getting stale. We'll give it a shot for a few years anyway.

IMO you should use a Non-immigrant O-A visa from you home countries Thai Embassy rather than annual extensions of stay issued by immigration. That way you don’t need to tie money up in Thailand, and if you plan your visits well it’s possible to get two 6 month visits from one visa.

[ThaiBunny]

Why would you bother going through the rigmarole of an "O" visa when you can get an METV from your home country that will give you six months (with extensions + one visa run) with far fewer hoops to jump through?

[Suradit69]

9 hours ago, donnacha said:

 

If I get a retirement visa, would there be any problem if I actually spend half of each year out of Thailand

 

If you mean an extension of  stay based on retirement, remember you'll still need to keep baht 800,000 in a Thai bank most of the year or have proof you've sent at least baht 65,000 from abroad to your Thai bank account EVERY month, not just those months when you're present in Thailand.

 

The 90 day report is only required if you are in Thailand for 90 uninterrupted days. Every time you're out of the country and return, the count to 90 days begins again from day one.

 

Regardless of what visa or permission you use, you'll still need to contend with your immigrations office's interpretation of the rules regarding the "dreaded" TM.30.

[Tony125]

6 hours ago, overherebc said:

What you want to do sounds good.  Hoping to do similar soon.

Re' retirement extension. It obviously means 800,000 baht tied up in Thailand, I take it that's not a problem but you are not allowed to work on retirement extensions, not sure if that's a point for you to consider.

Your point is inncorect. You "can" work on a retirement visa = extension of stay just not in Thailand. Many ex-pats have yearly extensions of stay for retirement but have multi rentry permits and spend time in their home countries  or traveling in other parts of Asia and the word (working ) but using Thailand as their home base.

[Tony125]

10 hours ago, elviajero said:

A visa, no.

 

An extension of stay, almost certainly not. They are unlikely to deny an application, but they might query why it’s necessary if you don’t live in the country.

 

 

Your point is inncorect. You "can" work on a retirement visa = extension of stay just not in Thailand. Many ex-pats have yearly extensions of stay for retirement but have multi rentry permits and spend time in their home countries  or traveling in other parts of Asia and the world ( sometimes working ) but using Thailand as their home base.

See crazygreg44's post #3 he has been on Retirement extensions for 15 years and uses Thailand as his home base but doesn;t need to stay here  all year.

[Tony125]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

 

Thank you.

 

Yes, the 800K is unfortunate, it would have been lovely to just keep using the tourist visas, but I suppose it doubles as an emergency nest egg tied to the currency of the country I may spend much of the next few decades in.

 

As for working, it is taking a Thai job or soliciting for business client work here that is illegal. There is no law against working on your own projects if they have no economic tie to Thailand. Business people on vacation had been doing that for decades before the Digital Nomads decided they invented it. Writers, too, have a long history of coming here to work on their books. Certainly, no one cares what Mr. Falang Ba is doing on his laptop if he quietly gets on with it.

If you arrive with a SETV you would get 60 days and then extend that for 30 more at immigration for 1900 baht. After that go to say Laos and get another single entry and extend that for 30 days at immigration. That would give you 6 months in Thailand without tying up any money (800,000 baht) in a Thai bank. You also could extend your SETV at immigration for 60 days by reason of visiting a Thai wife.  Should have no problem with IO's at airport because technacly your only visiting twice a year.

[jacko45k]

4 hours ago, donnacha said:

Yes, the 800K is unfortunate, it would have been lovely to just keep using the tourist visas, but I suppose it doubles as an emergency nest egg tied to the currency of the country I may spend much of the next few decades in.

Sadly, if you spend it, you are in non-compliance with the terms of the extension. This may only be an issue when you try to renew and no-one yet really knows how this will work out.

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Tony125 said:

12 hours ago, elviajero said:

A visa, no.

 

An extension of stay, almost certainly not. They are unlikely to deny an application, but they might query why it’s necessary if you don’t live in the country.

 

 

Your point is inncorect. You "can" work on a retirement visa = extension of stay just not in Thailand. Many ex-pats have yearly extensions of stay for retirement but have multi rentry permits and spend time in their home countries  or traveling in other parts of Asia and the world ( sometimes working ) but using Thailand as their home base.

See crazygreg44's post #3 he has been on Retirement extensions for 15 years and uses Thailand as his home base but doesn;t need to stay here  all year.

I haven’t mentioned anything about working.

 

It doesn’t matter what people “do”; we all know immigration tolerate certain practices when it suits them.

 

To clarify: A ‘retirement extension’ is meant for a retiree (not working) — with a passive income or cash in the bank — that wants to live in the country. However, as long as you don’t work in Thailand they are not going to be bothered about what you do when you are out of the country. My only point is that immigration might want to know why someone is living 6 months outside the country that is applying for an extension of stay.

[dcnx]

11 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

The too hot est stressful, I'm also considering living only 6 months in Thailand, a good solution to change food and live in another environment is also good for health.

While I agree that it’s good for you, Thailand is anything but healthy. It’s a polluted mess.

[Mac98]

6 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

Why would you bother going through the rigmarole of an "O" visa when you can get an METV from your home country that will give you six months (with extensions + one visa run) with far fewer hoops to jump through?

Correct. And no need to tie up 800,0000 baht.

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Your point is inncorect. You "can" work on a retirement visa = extension of stay just not in Thailand. Many ex-pats have yearly extensions of stay for retirement but have multi rentry permits and spend time in their home countries  or traveling in other parts of Asia and the word (working ) but using Thailand as their home base.

For goodness sake.

Am I supposed to say don't forget you can work outside Thailand but can't work when you're inside Thailand.

[CMBob]

37 minutes ago, elviajero said:

My only point is that immigration might want to know why someone is living 6 months outside the country that is applying for an extension of stay.

I understand your speculation but do you know of a single instance when it's been an issue (or even questioned)?  

[overherebc]

5 hours ago, Tony125 said:

Your point is inncorect. You "can" work on a retirement visa = extension of stay just not in Thailand. Many ex-pats have yearly extensions of stay for retirement but have multi rentry permits and spend time in their home countries  or traveling in other parts of Asia and the world ( sometimes working ) but using Thailand as their home base.

See crazygreg44's post #3 he has been on Retirement extensions for 15 years and uses Thailand as his home base but doesn;t need to stay here  all year.

Just to be picky there is no such thing as a 'retirement visa'. The closest is an O-A long stay visa.

You can call a goose a big chicken but it isn't, it's a goose.

[amexpat]

9 hours ago, MiclB said:

'been doing fine with this structure for a long time; no in-country work, etc.  You can almost avoid all 90 day reporting if you watch your calendar closely.

Otherwise, you'll have to invest about five minutes on your computer to do the 90 days. 

[amexpat]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

Just to be picky there is no such thing as a 'retirement visa'. The closest is an O-A long stay visa.

You can call a goose a big chicken but it isn't, it's a goose.

What if you call a pedant a PITA? 

 

BTW, the counter at CM immigration says "Retirement".  Want to correct them? 

Edited August 23, 2019 by amexpat
clarity

[overherebc]

17 minutes ago, amexpat said:

What if you call a pedant a PITA? 

 

BTW, the counter at CM immigration says "Retirement".  Want to correct them? 

Retirement what? Goose? Chicken?

One is a visa, one is an extension.

Edited August 23, 2019 by overherebc

[donnacha]

Thank you @OJAS, @ThaiBunny, @ICELANDMAN, @MiclB, @Suradit69, @Tony125, @jacko45k, @dcnx, @CMBob, @amexpat, @Mac98, and thanks again to @overherebc and @elviajero for the further clarifications.

It is a complex area, further complicated by the trend since 2012, and accelerated after the 2015 coup, of various options becoming more complicated. So, I am not merely looking at what is viable today but, also, what is likely to remain viable in 5, 10, 20 years time. 

My hunch is that all tourist visas, even the SETV, will continue to become more restrictive as Thailand continues to chase the mirage of five-star tourists who spend big and leave quickly. Someone, somewhere at the top, has decided that long-stay farangs are a problem.

My employment/business situation falls between the cracks and the gaps in my knowledge - despite reading many threads - were looming over me. Thanks to all of you, I now have a firmer grasp of my options. Thank you to everyone.

My conclusion is that the retirement category is likely to remain somewhat protected, as long as you have that 800K and, no doubt soon, useless Thai medical insurance. Probably best to bite the bullet and set myself up somewhat officially, rather than worry about changing tourist visa rules, having 20K in cash every time I arrive, avoiding female IOs etc.

Regarding marriage, I might just be commitment phobic, but my perception is that the harmony in our relationship is finely balanced on the fact that I can walk away at any time. I won't, but my lady's fiery nature is moderated by the fact that I could. As it stands, we pretty much never fight, she has accepted my position that I won't tolerate or participate in petty arguments, and it is actually something of a relief to her as her two previous marriages were to particularly weak men (one Thai, one English) whom she ended up dominating and not respecting.

We are not going to have kids, she has no financial need to live in the West, I shudder to think of the level of wedding her rich family would expect me to fund, and have noted that marriage does not do you any particular favors with immigration here - a smaller bank deposit but far more ongoing paperwork, I would not have the patience and, again, it is likely to become more restrictive over time.

Certainly, without kids in the picture, marriage for visa purposes would be a somewhat extreme move.

In truth, I no longer like Thailand as much as I once did, crazy that we have to jump through so many hoops to spend time here.