Trump heaps another 5% tariff on Chinese goods in latest tit-for-tat escalation

[Srikcir]

2 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

I am not even sure if that includes local and state debt.

It doesn't as U.S. states, counties and municipalities aren't allow deficit spending.

[stevenl]

14 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Home of CC Neville Chamberlain to "preserve peace in our time" tried to appease Germany.  Now many like yourself believe Trump should capitulate to China and have them continue their decades long practice of one sided trade where U.S. consumer buy their products and in effect  build their economy while they steal hundreds of  billions in intellectual property and put trade barriers to any USA product thereby hurting USA manufactures but again helping the Chinese.  The end game to that, is that the USA will in effect be providing the capital to make China the worlds largest economic power and rendering the USA impotent.  Free trade is fair trade where whatever impediments you place on imported products should likewise have reciprocal impediments to your exports.  

What many are saying here is that a coordinated effort together with the EU should be made towards China.

[jany123]

43 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

Home of CC Neville Chamberlain to "preserve peace in our time" tried to appease Germany.  Now many like yourself believe Trump should capitulate to China and have them continue their decades long practice of one sided trade where U.S. consumer buy their products and in effect  build their economy while they steal hundreds of  billions in intellectual property and put trade barriers to any USA product thereby hurting USA manufactures but again helping the Chinese.  The end game to that, is that the USA will in effect be providing the capital to make China the worlds largest economic power and rendering the USA impotent.  Free trade is fair trade where whatever impediments you place on imported products should likewise have reciprocal impediments to your exports.  

Wow... that’s a very very long bow to be stretching.

 

no one is suggesting that trade issues were not a problem, and that they should not be addressed... that China should be “appeased”.... but everybody other than trumpophiles do suggest that tariffs are not the way to address the problem, which is a direct result of western profiteering by employing slave style labor forces in China to increase their profits... y’all seem to forget about that, just as trumpophiles reject responsibility for the damage to Latin American economies caused by American profiteering. Y’all want to do a deal with the devil, but are unwilling to pay the price, and are intent on screwing world trade for everyone, because of it.

 

if Chinese predation exists as you claim, why are other nations not climbing on the now rolling circus wagons that are A45?

 

American companies now want to move where... back to America? No... they want to move to a new slave marketplace like Cambodia, as they are still intent on exploiting poor countries, but that’s OK, right? Because it’s about profit for them at the host nations expense, which is far from fair.

 

you support a false equivalence... If you need an historical (World War 2) example to equate to, look instead to the effect of 1930s tariffs on japan. Reap what you sow

[quandow]

A CEO of ANY successful firm would have been removed for cause if they had tried this same garbage. (BTW, why did the "s" word go back to being censored here?)

[soalbundy]

16 hours ago, neeray said:

The ramifications of this trade war are much greater than I can comprehend (and probably same for most people). I can't quite figure out whether this is one of Trumps many testosterone-loaded personal little wars that he feels compelled to win or if he is truly adamant about correcting a decades-long trade imbalance with China.

Time will tell.

It's right up there with his hate of Obama a great president of whom Trump is insanely jealous, for him it is impossible that an Asian country could rival and overtake America. 

[Srikcir]

17 hours ago, rooster59 said:

Trump heaps another 5% tariff on Chinese goods in latest tit-for-tat escalation

Joke is on Pro-Trump ally Boris Johnson.

British PM Boris Johnson says he'll ask Donald Trump not to escalate the trade war with China at the G7 summit

http://lite.cnn.io/en/article/h_08f0602f1a8bdf317ed7c47c7ee2482a

Trump and Johnson are due to meet on the sidelines of the summit Sunday morning. Will crow be included with breakfast?

[khunken]

Trade agreements are a win-win strategy. Tariffs are a lose-lose strategy.

 

I was never a fan of the TPP due to that it was giving more power to multinationals over individual country's legal systems. But it was far superior to tariffs, especially as it excluded China (& India).

 

Trump, blinded by his hate for anything Obama did for his country, has (again) taken the worst route possible for his own country and is increasing the chances of a world-wide recession. One would think that the reaction of US stock & bond markets to tariff escalation would make him think about the damage he's doing. But no, 'When ignorance is bliss, 'tis folly to be wise'.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Srikcir said:

A key to Article 25 is Vice President Pence (whom Trump just confirmed as his running mate in the 2020 election because of his loyalty) must make the determination of inability. https://www.thedailybeast.com/wanna-get-rid-of-trump-forget-the-25th-amendment 

Furthermore, to reach a determination requires the majority support of the Cabinet secretaries. Three of the 21 Cabinet-level positions still have acting directors: Homeland Security, Labor and the Small Business Administration. While the UN Ambassador position has been filled, Trump downgraded the position so its no longer part of the Cabinet. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2019/07/24/whos-charge-many-months-acting-cabinet-secretaries/?noredirect=or  So must there be a full Cabinet before a majority can be met?

Of course the POTUS can at any time fire any Senate confirmed Cabinet holder. If he thought there might be some wavering Cabinet member towards Article 25, he could start winnowing down the cabinet numbers.

Article 25 is not going to happen. 

 

quote "Of course the POTUS can at any time fire any Senate confirmed Cabinet holder. If he thought there might be some wavering Cabinet member towards Article 25, he could start winnowing down the cabinet numbers."

 

The problem with winnowing down the cabinet members is that there will be a point where NOBODY will want to be in the Cabinet (confirmed or not) as the cost to them will be too high. 

 

What happens then?

[Morch]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

quote "Of course the POTUS can at any time fire any Senate confirmed Cabinet holder. If he thought there might be some wavering Cabinet member towards Article 25, he could start winnowing down the cabinet numbers."

 

The problem with winnowing down the cabinet members is that there will be a point where NOBODY will want to be in the Cabinet (confirmed or not) as the cost to them will be too high. 

 

What happens then?

 

Can always appoint a favorite horse.

[AlexRich]

5 hours ago, soalbundy said:

It's right up there with his hate of Obama a great president of whom Trump is insanely jealous, for him it is impossible that an Asian country could rival and overtake America. 

Correct, and his infantile policy of destroying anything initiated by Obama has lost him a key strategic move in this area, the Trans Pacific Partnership would have given the US significant influence in the area, instead of the Chinese Belt and Braces initiative. His policy of bullying and humiliating allies is playing into China’s hands. If Trump survives in 2020 he might find that these countries join together and push back on the US. The follow up to “Art of the Deal” is entitled “How to lose friends and alienate countries”.

[KKr]

21 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

He jus becoming increasingly unhinged, and he is hellbent on destroying the economy. He seems to think that Xi, and the Chicoms will just cave. Not going to happen. The harder he pushes, the more entrenched they will become. He has a modest amount of skill. Enough to negotiate a deal on a small apartment building in NYC. He is in way over his head with China, North Korea, Russia, and the like. This guy is incompetent beyond the wildest nightmares of his supporters, and for those of us who did not support him, we just have to suffer through this nightmare scenario. 

 

When he says: "We don’t need China and, frankly, would be far better off without them. The vast amounts of money made and stolen by China from the United States, year after year, for decades, will and must STOP," Trump tweeted on Friday morning. He is wrong. The US needs China far more than China needs the US. The US is stradled with historic debt, and Trump is spending money like a drunken sailor. Projected deficit for 2019 is upwards of a trillion dollars. This from a guy who swore he would bring the deficit down. Nice job with that one. The Chinese debt, if you take into account local, state and federal obligations is about 46% of GDP. The US debt is well over 100% of GDP, and I am not even sure if that includes local and state debt.

 

The Chinese are sitting on trillions of dollars in cash and US backed securities. The US? Barely any cash at all and debt that is unsustainable in the long run. So, who needs who? I do not like the Chinese government. But, there is no question about them eclipsing the US, within our lifetimes. And Trump is feeding right into their plans. He is allowing them to court, and establish close relations with nations that the US is pushing away, with policy that is so fabulously ignorant, it boggles the mind. 

allow me to add the agricultural exports from the US to China that have been, predictably, given an import tariff. 

""According to the article, U.S. agricultural exports to China fell from $19.5 billion in 2017 to $9.2 billion in 2018 -- a plunge that could deliver a hard blow to the Trump administration. It is a good story with a bird's-eye view of the possible consequences of the trade war"". from NikkeiAsia

[spidermike007]

1 minute ago, KKr said:

allow me to add the agricultural exports from the US to China that have been, predictably, given an import tariff. 

""According to the article, U.S. agricultural exports to China fell from $19.5 billion in 2017 to $9.2 billion in 2018 -- a plunge that could deliver a hard blow to the Trump administration. It is a good story with a bird's-eye view of the possible consequences of the trade war"". from NikkeiAsia

 

There is no doubt that Trump is going to be losing millions of votes, come 2020, due to the intensifying trade war with China, and his complete and utter inability to get a deal done, as promised. I also think fatigue is setting in. His poll numbers are dropping, and I believe some of that has to do with people just getting tired of his nonsense, and daily tirades. They are not useful or productive, on any level. Just a juvenile mind. and an insecure man with the thinnest skin of any world leader in history, lashing out at perceived slights. 

[KKr]

14 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

 

There is no doubt that Trump is going to be losing millions of votes, come 2020, due to the intensifying trade war with China, and his complete and utter inability to get a deal done, as promised. I also think fatigue is setting in. His poll numbers are dropping, and I believe some of that has to do with people just getting tired of his nonsense, and daily tirades. They are not useful or productive, on any level. Just a juvenile mind. and an insecure man with the thinnest skin of any world leader in history, lashing out at perceived slights. 

in my opinion, since he has been showing that he is a miserable president and people inside the US finally seem to acknowledge that fact, he may prove extremely dangerous.
To boost his ratings, he may now decide to revert to proving that he is a strong and determined leader of the world.

How do government "leaders" influence the masses' perception of powerful ?
One creates an enemy and becomes the defender of the nation and the democratic values world !
Following that theory, escalation of some minor conflict with a major military intervention, or perhaps an invasion of Greenland, the consequences whereof he can neither oversee nor manage, seems a real possibility in case re-election is becoming unlikely.

May He (with a capital, so that is not referring to The Donald) bless America.

[billd766]

On 8/25/2019 at 10:58 AM, spidermike007 said:

He jus becoming increasingly unhinged, and he is hellbent on destroying the economy. He seems to think that Xi, and the Chicoms will just cave. Not going to happen. The harder he pushes, the more entrenched they will become. He has a modest amount of skill. Enough to negotiate a deal on a small apartment building in NYC. He is in way over his head with China, North Korea, Russia, and the like. This guy is incompetent beyond the wildest nightmares of his supporters, and for those of us who did not support him, we just have to suffer through this nightmare scenario. 

 

When he says: "We don’t need China and, frankly, would be far better off without them. The vast amounts of money made and stolen by China from the United States, year after year, for decades, will and must STOP," Trump tweeted on Friday morning. He is wrong. The US needs China far more than China needs the US. The US is stradled with historic debt, and Trump is spending money like a drunken sailor. Projected deficit for 2019 is upwards of a trillion dollars. This from a guy who swore he would bring the deficit down. Nice job with that one. The Chinese debt, if you take into account local, state and federal obligations is about 46% of GDP. The US debt is well over 100% of GDP, and I am not even sure if that includes local and state debt.

 

The Chinese are sitting on trillions of dollars in cash and US backed securities. The US? Barely any cash at all and debt that is unsustainable in the long run. So, who needs who? I do not like the Chinese government. But, there is no question about them eclipsing the US, within our lifetimes. And Trump is feeding right into their plans. He is allowing them to court, and establish close relations with nations that the US is pushing away, with policy that is so fabulously ignorant, it boggles the mind. 

I just found this on Google

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/16/trumps-tax-cut-didnt-reduce-the-deficit--despite-his-many-promises.html

 

On the campaign trail, Trump first proposed a $10 trillion tax cut, far larger than any Republican rival’s, but insisted it wouldn’t boost the federal budget deficit because the economy would “take off like a rocket ship.”
Though Trump sharply pared back this proposal, he continued to maintain the deficit wouldn’t rise.
That claim was politically important for congressional Republicans who used it to convince holdout lawmakers to vote yes.
But even as growth has accelerated, the Treasury reported that the 2018 deficit swelled to $779 billion. That level, the highest in six years, marks a 17 percent increase over 2017.