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Thai-American US senator meets PM Prayut


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5 hours ago, yellowboat said:

You didn't.  Her achievements and sacrifice far outshine just about any soldier in uniform.  His do not, unless you can offer some insights of coup leader's great heroics.   The point being her meeting looked like a snow job, when she is obviously is 100 times the soldier his is, unless you can again show some insight into cha cha's great successes. 

 I know very litle about  and have no opinion, or make value judgments on Prayut Chan-o-cha. Without making any value judgments, I know he rose to the rank of General,  led a military coup, stabilized the country from what was occurring back then, governed for a few years, and was democratically elected Prime Minister, all not small achievements requiring big balls. I might not agree with motivations and methods but I do respect his commitment. He is certainly no lightweight.

Though I understand and sympathize with where you are coming  from, I think those with a negative opinion of this event, are overreacting. As far as political events are concerned , this one is pretty "Vanila" . 

Native daughter returns home, in her official capacity  offers  , not her opinion which she wisely keeps private, but the official US line . IMO Nothing to see here. 

   By the way, though I am a liberal, I am not a great fan of Democracy , if such thing has ever existed in modern history. IMO "Democracy" is a political device used to legitimise political skulduggery . It certainly never existed in Thailand where people were paid to vote a particular way.  

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59 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 I know very litle about  and have no opinion, or make value judgments on Prayut Chan-o-cha. Without making any value judgments, I know he rose to the rank of General,  led a military coup, stabilized the country from what was occurring back then, governed for a few years, and was democratically elected Prime Minister, all not small achievements requiring big balls. I might not agree with motivations and methods but I do respect his commitment. He is certainly no lightweight.

Though I understand and sympathize with where you are coming  from, I think those with a negative opinion of this event, are overreacting. As far as political events are concerned , this one is pretty "Vanila" . 

Native daughter returns home, in her official capacity  offers  , not her opinion which she wisely keeps private, but the official US line . IMO Nothing to see here. 

   By the way, though I am a liberal, I am not a great fan of Democracy , if such thing has ever existed in modern history. IMO "Democracy" is a political device used to legitimise political skulduggery . It certainly never existed in Thailand where people were paid to vote a particular way. 

Democratically elected you mean with a hand picked Senate majority of high ranking military officers

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2 hours ago, sirineou said:

IMO "Democracy" is a political device used to legitimise political skulduggery

could not agree more ….  it's nothing more than a smokescreen to try to hide the bribery, lies, hidden agenda's, and make it look like everything is above board and honest   !   if the tv farang believe that then they really are dreamers …. but I already knew that.

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11 hours ago, Fred white said:

Democratically elected you mean with a hand picked Senate majority of high ranking military officers

If indeed that was the case , it must be legal with in the democratic system of Thailand otherwise his election would had being challenged.

  As I said I am not a fan of the democratic process, But it is what it is. It gave as trump , and gave the Brits Johnson .  God save as all.

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On 8/25/2019 at 12:21 PM, yellowboat said:

"Ms Duckworth said she saw important developments in Thailand and was impressed with its political and economic development."

 

Sorry, Thailand has known peace for decades and is falling behind Malaysia and Vietnam due to military interference.  I see that is genuine apple polishing and sending the wrong signal from the American people to the average Thai person. 

Was she speaking for herself or officially on behalf of the American people?

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49 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Was she speaking for herself or officially on behalf of the American people?

I doubt very many casual tourists meet with the Thai P.M. I will also add in the U.S. system, the president has massive powers in setting the foreign policy agenda, and congress has more limited powers. As she isn't even in the current occupant of the white house's party you can't really say she represents current U.S. foreign policy. But the current occupant of the white house has certainly not confronted Thailand on democracy or human rights issues. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_United_States

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39 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I doubt very many casual tourists meet with the Thai P.M. I will also add in the U.S. system, the president has massive powers in setting the foreign policy agenda, and congress has more limited powers. As she isn't even in the current occupant of the white house's party you can't really say she represents current U.S. foreign policy. But the current occupant of the white house has certainly not confronted Thailand on democracy or human rights issues. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreign_policy_of_the_United_States

I am sure I read somewhere that she went up to Chiang Mai to see an elderly Thai relative. I didn't realise that it was an official visit.

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1 minute ago, billd766 said:

I am sure I read somewhere that she went up to Chiang Mai to see an elderly Thai relative. I didn't realise that it was an official visit.

I'm not saying it was an official visit. She obviously has family ties here and she's seen as "special" here because of her Thai background and historically high office for an American with that background. Also I think if people read her comments in FULL CONTEXT they weren't as much as a suck up as people are accusing her by only referring to the snippet. 

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An amazing woman. Arguably the most prominent and successful Thai-American ever? (And I'm a Tiger Woods fan.)

 

The caption for the OP photo should be: "The solider and the politician". The soldier is on the left. 

 

 

WiKi:

 

Duckworth was the first Thai-American woman elected to Congress, the first born in Thailand elected to Congress, the first woman with a disability to be elected to Congress, the first female double amputee in the Senate, and the first Senator to give birth while in office. Duckworth is the second Asian American woman serving in the U.S. Senate, after Mazie Hirono, and before Kamala Harris.

 

A combat veteran of the Iraq War, Duckworth served as a U.S. Army helicopter pilot and suffered severe combat wounds, which caused her to lose both of her legs and some mobility in her right arm. She was the first female double amputee from the war.[3] Despite her grievous injuries, she sought and obtained a medical waiver which allowed her to continue serving as a lieutenant colonel in the Illinois Army National Guard along with her husband, Major Bryan W. Bowlsbey, a signal officer and fellow Iraq War veteran. Both have since retired from the armed forces.

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 Senator Tammy Duckworth on Friday urged Thais to be patient with the "messy" nature of democracy  - "Real democracy is messy... I understand the frustration of those who want things to move faster in Thailand and I agree with you."

Wow, and she's being slammed on this forum for such a thought? Actually, for a Democrat, I applaud her realism -- "be patient" -- over idealism. And, of course, she's viewing this through the prism of Asia, for when it even has "democracies," they're managed democracies, at least the successful ones are  -- Singapore being a prime example. My main fear is that the current Thai attempt at democracy has wandered too far away from the "managed" concept, thus giving too many idiots a say.

 

Is there anyone reading this who wouldn't opt for a Thai Lee Kuan Yew as the head of government? Well, probably some -- after reading this quote:

 

Quote

Singapore's Lee Kuan Yew has said that developing countries need discipline more than democracy: "The exuberance of democracy leads to indiscipline and disorderly conduct which are inimical to development." To follow Mr. Lee's logic, The Economist proposes a thought experiment about "unguided democracy" -- the kind Americans and other Western countries have.

Quote

Assume a democracy of three persons (A, B and C) with $1 to divide among them. A logical solution is to share the dollar equally. But A suggests to B that they use their majority to vote a 50-50 spit for themselves, leaving C penniless. C counters with an offer to take 45 cents, leaving 55 for B, if B will vote with him against A. And so forth. The game has no stable solution. The three agree only that there ought to be more than one dollar in the pot. And for a generation that's the way Americans have played the game. Congress hypothesizes a $3 pot so that A, B and C all can be satisfied today at the eventual expense of tomorrow's children.

A benevolent despot can short-cut the problem. The strongman takes care of the army and his cronies, insuring regime stability, and shares out the rest, insuring rising prosperity.

It can be an effective way to run a country. Many of the current generation of Asian strongmen, advised by economists from Berkeley, MIT or Chicago, have chased economic growth. Unencumbered by niceties of human rights or messy political process, they have succeeded in forcing through measures that are bringing a better life to most people.

https://www.baltimoresun.com/news/bs-xpm-1995-08-12-1995224028-story.html

Anyway, this is from an old article (1995) -- but it has a lot of points that are still germane.

 

Prayut, under the new constitution, certainly doesn't have Suharto type rights:

"Unencumbered by niceties of human rights or messy political process, they have succeeded in forcing through measures that are bringing a better life to most people."

 

But, some of us wish he did.....

 

We'll just have to "be patient," as Senator Tammy says -- and see how the Thai version of managed democracy works out.

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On 8/26/2019 at 5:25 PM, yellowboat said:

Current achievements and selfless acts aside, yes it was.  Other than her misplaced support for the Thai government and this cowardly general, who is lucky even to meet a true soldier like her, I would agree with you.  She is 100 times the soldier he is.  Why give this coup leader any accolades at all?  It was a blown opportunity and a blunder on her part.  

Hmmm....so you would expect the President of the US to meet with the North Korean dictator and not give him any accolades at all?  I assume then that you are hugely disappointed with Mr. Trump as well. 

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4 hours ago, billd766 said:

Was she speaking for herself or officially on behalf of the American people?

Good question.  As a former duly elected official deserving of office, her actions can be perceived as speaking for the nation she represented, same as an ex-president.   If those comments were her own, she may have wanted to keep them off the record.

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23 hours ago, steven100 said:

could not agree more ….  it's nothing more than a smokescreen to try to hide the bribery, lies, hidden agenda's, and make it look like everything is above board and honest   !   if the tv farang believe that then they really are dreamers …. but I already knew that.

I cannot argue with an empty Carona bottle that does not know anything (his words), but you do, and yet you still take the path of least resistance.  Yes, you are correct in saying the west is not nearly as free as it once was.   More people during the Obama presidency renounced their US citizenship than in any time in history, so there is one supporting argument for you.   Let's talk about Taiwan.  Are the Taiwanese dreaming, or you do not know enough about Asia to actually there are better alternatives for Thailand.?  Tell us where the Taiwanese are failing.   Can Thailand ever compete with Taiwan or Malaysia?

 

You following that coward blindly and your "farang" thing gets old, but at least you try to argue, and you some likable try traits.  Traits that the wet blanket you worship is trying to marginalize.   

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On 8/25/2019 at 10:26 AM, DLock said:

 

I was thinking the same thing.

 

In the US, people can become a citizen and be elected a Senator - a Thai, or even a Muslim woman born in Somalia. People complain about US politics, but it's fair, diverse and democratic....and the people vote their President in....then they whine about it.

 

In Thailand, however...

In Thailand however, you marry a Thai citizen, live your life as a glorified tourist married to that Thai for years or decades constantly proving year to year, 90 day period to 90 day period, TM30 to TM30 that you aren't a criminal who deserves the boot.  In fact, you spend your entire life simply attempting to prove you're not a criminal deserving the boot.
But a Thai native can become a US Senator. Hummm.

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