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Confused about Elite Visa.


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19 minutes ago, jacko45k said:
3 hours ago, jackdd said:

They could have written: Upon entry the person will be permitted to stay until the expiry date of the visa.

Isn't one year the maximum by law?

No. The maximum is determined by the reason for entry.

 

However, they have used section 17 which allows them to determine any length of stay. They could have gone for 5 years, but chose to go with 1 year.

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6 hours ago, elviajero said:

 

There is a report in another PE visa topic where an TE ex-member with an expired visa was denied a re-entry permit to protect their last 1 year stay.

Yes I read that, interesting. Let us hope they distinguish a similar scenario for someone applying for a multiple re-entry permit, after their Non-Imm-O-A has expired. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
7 minutes ago, rickthailand said:

i entered thailand 4 days before my elite visa expired i got stamped in for

1 year(6th year)  i went to chiang mai immigration and got myself a reentry permit and it was no problem.

 

rick

Have you had any hassle at Airports proof of money, proof of accommodation, on-ward ticket? Although I have spent less than 2 months in Thailand this year I feel a sense of unease without the escorts.

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I have an Elite card.
 
Did you know the 'Elite Visa' is nothing of the kind. Your Visa is simply a normal TOURIST Visa that allows a 90 day entry only, with the bonus of being able to send Elite staff to go and do your 90 day report. You can confirm this at the Elite office.
 
So effectively once you leave Thailand and your Elite card has almost expired, you would only be able to get at least one more 90 day entry, not 1 year. I know this because I asked at the head office.
 
 
 
 
I'm afraid this is not accurate.

The elite visa grants you a one year visa stamp upon arrival.

You can stay within the kingdom fur the entire validity of your visa without leaving once.

90 day reports are independent of the visa.
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Here is the latest.... technically yes you should be allowed an extra 12 months even if you exit and enter Thailand 1 month before it expires, it does not matter. Thats how visas have always been and that is always how it has worked. Except now they are trying to blackmail existing users into scaring them to renew their membership before it expires. Its not good practice at all and ive lost a lot of respect and trust for the so cal;led Elite visa when they insult intelligence with low ball Thai scare tactics... check this BS...length of your stay per each entry will also be terminated. no thats not true only if they make that problems at immigration which they shouldnt as its not the way extensions work.
Here is my advice... on your last exit entry do not use Thai elite staff at all, take your member card and go through the fast check in lane by yourself and get what you are entitled to without anyone interfering or telling you lies.
unnamed.thumb.jpg.0051e04e2d56d92ee75c7d3b1926850a.jpg

 

Edited by djlest
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Many countries have a 'must not arrive after...' with or without another condition of 'can stay until/must leave before...' hardly a loophole.

 

Thai multiple entry visa allows entry while valid, condition of stay is subject to the discretion of immigration officer at the port and any extension, if this become a problem, if you turn up on the very last day of validity of your visa, they could stamp you with a 30 days or something. 

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35 minutes ago, djlest said:

Its not good practice at all and ive lost a lot of respect and trust for the so cal;led Elite visa when they insult intelligence with low ball Thai scare tactics... check this BS...length of your stay per each entry will also be terminated. no thats not true only if they make that problems at immigration which they shouldnt as its not the way extensions work.

 

Yes, this is interesting, I'm almost half way through my 6th year right now and I will probably be renewing next year, unless of course they make problems for me in which case I won't be renewing at all.

 

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41 minutes ago, djlest said:

Here is the latest.... technically yes you should be allowed an extra 12 months even if you exit and enter Thailand 1 month before it expires, it does not matter. Thats how visas have always been and that is always how it has worked. Except now they are trying to blackmail existing users into scaring them to renew their membership before it expires. Its not good practice at all and ive lost a lot of respect and trust for the so cal;led Elite visa when they insult intelligence with low ball Thai scare tactics... check this BS...length of your stay per each entry will also be terminated. no thats not true only if they make that problems at immigration which they shouldnt as its not the way extensions work.
Here is my advice... on your last exit entry do not use Thai elite staff at all, take your member card and go through the fast check in lane by yourself and get what you are entitled to without anyone interfering or telling you lies.
unnamed.thumb.jpg.0051e04e2d56d92ee75c7d3b1926850a.jpg

 

That pretty much clarifies the position. If you’re in the country after membership expires the permission to stay is technically void. Exactly as it would be if someone loses a job of gets divorced.

 

They've warned you in writing and if anyone receiving this notification stays during year six they are on really dodgy ground.

 

People should be aware, if following your advice, that immigration could cancel the permit your stay, and could cancel it from when membership ended which could create a long overstay situation and possible ban. A long overstay would also prevent future membership.

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16 minutes ago, elviajero said:

That pretty much clarifies the position. If you’re in the country after membership expires the permission to stay is technically void. Exactly as it would be if someone loses a job of gets divorced.

 

They've warned you in writing and if anyone receiving this notification stays during year six they are on really dodgy ground.

 

People should be aware, if following your advice, that immigration could cancel the permit your stay, and could cancel it from when membership ended which could create a long overstay situation and possible ban. A long overstay would also prevent future membership.

The official announcement regarding this visa, issued by the minister of interior in writing, says something different: http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/law/law2/%A402/%A402-2e-2556-a0005.htm

Somebody who has Thailand Elite should contact them, include the link to the announcement from the minister of interior and ask them if there has been an update to this announcement. In case there hasn't been an update, you could ask them why they think they are above the minister of interior.

Edited by jackdd
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4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The official announcement regarding this visa, issued by the minister of interior, says something different: http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/law/law2/%A402/%A402-2e-2556-a0005.htm

Somebody who has Thailand Elite should contact them, include the link to the announcement from the minister of interior and ask them if there has been an update to this announcement. In case there hasn't been an update, you could ask them why they think they are above the minister of interior.

That is interesting, here's the google translation of the above link :

 

Quote

Announcement of the Ministry of Interior

Subject: Special permission for certain classes of aliens to enter the Kingdom
                 

Which is expedient to allow foreigners who have received a special membership card ( Thailand Privilege Card) Special entry into the Kingdom of Thailand

By virtue of Article 17 of the Immigration Act, 1979, the Minister of Interior With the approval of the Cabinet on 12 November 2012, hereby issues the announcement as follows:

Article 1   For foreigners who have received a special membership card ( Thailand) Privilege Card) since the date this announcement comes into force in Thailand Under the conditions and exempted, it is not necessary to comply with the Immigration Act 1979 in the case as specified in this announcement.
 

Article 2   Persons under Article 1 shall have the right to receive a special Privilege Entry Visa) from foreign embassies and consulates Or from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs or from the Office of Immigration For use for five years with an unlimited number of times throughout the membership card, with the exception of visa fees.

Article 3   When the person under Article 1 travels into the Kingdom The immigration official shall check and authorize to stay in the Kingdom for one year every time. Traveling to the Kingdom on an unlimited number of times

Article 4   Permission to temporarily stay After the expiration of the permit under Article 3, the immigration authority shall have the power to grant permission to continue for one year at a time. By submitting an application in accordance with the form and paying fees as specified in the Ministerial Regulations

 

Article 5 [ 1]   This announcement shall come into force from the day following the date of its publication in the Government Gazette.

Announced on 22 February B.E. 2556
Charupong   Rueang Suwan
Minister of the Interior

 

Edited by ukrules
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21 minutes ago, ukrules said:

That is interesting, here's the google translation of the above link :

The article you have highlighted is referring to an extension of stay and isn’t relevant to the statements in the TE letter.

Edited by elviajero
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8 minutes ago, jackdd said:

The official announcement regarding this visa, issued by the minister of interior in writing, says something different: http://web.krisdika.go.th/data/law/law2/%A402/%A402-2e-2556-a0005.htm

Somebody who has Thailand Elite should contact them, include the link to the announcement from the minister of interior and ask them if there has been an update to this announcement. In case there hasn't been an update, you could ask them why they think they are above the minister of interior.

That announcement changes nothing. The issue is the validity of a permit once membership ends.

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3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

Where does it say the validity of the permit ends when the membership ends?

Clearly permission to stay is based on being a member of TE.

 

TE expect members to leave the country at the end of the membership or renew. So people need to accept that the loophole is likely to get closed. There’s already been one report of an ex-member being refused a re-entry permit.

 

As I’ve written before the visa/permit is a benefit of membership. Very easy to understand.

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2 minutes ago, elviajero said:

Clearly permission to stay is based on being a member of TE.

 

TE expect members to leave the country at the end of the membership or renew. So people need to accept that the loophole is likely to get closed. There’s already been one report of an ex-member being refused a re-entry permit.

 

As I’ve written before the visa/permit is a benefit of membership. Very easy to understand.

What TE expects members to do just doesn't have any relevance, they don't make these rules.

The rules have been set in the announcement which i posted before, and are quite clear: Enter Thailand while your membership is valid and you will be permitted to stay for a year. No further limitations.

I understand that Thai Elite wants to maximize their profit and tries to cheat people, but it's just not in accordance with the official rules.

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3 minutes ago, jackdd said:

What TE expects members to do just doesn't have any relevance, they don't make these rules.

The rules have been set in the announcement which i posted before, and are quite clear: Enter Thailand while your membership is valid and you will be permitted to stay for a year. No further limitations.

I understand that Thai Elite wants to maximize their profit and tries to cheat people, but it's just not in accordance with the official rules.

That announcement outlined the basics. And immigration/TE are following those rules by granting a 1 year stay to members. But if you don’t renew, and are no longer a member, the rules obviously no longer apply.

 

Ultimately immigration can revoke anyones permission to stay once they are in the country regardless of the visa used to enter.

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This whole discussion just reinforces my long held belief that you cannot trust the Thai government and any of its shady outfits. Not now and certainly not five or 20 years down the line. I'll use that to my advantage and continue to pay as I go (someone will always be there who's corrupt enough to indulge me) - no prepaid "Elite" for me!

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2 hours ago, elviajero said:

the rules obviously no longer apply.

Yet they do and somehow I managed to do a 90 day report about two months ago after my 5 year visa (and membership) had expired but while still having 9 months of 'current and valid entrance stamp' remaining in my passport. I will do my next second 90 day report inside the 'extra year' next month.

 

If they change the rules they will stop issuing the entrance stamps that are valid beyond the membership date but I don't think it's that easy, immigration are clearly following the letter of the law - they're not going to retroactively apply it to people who are stamped in correctly as confirmed by immigration at the port of entry and every 3 months when we do the 90 day reports and then tell us we're all on overstay.

 

Remember - at the end of this extra year they will be encouraging us to pay them and become members again and I'm almost certainly going to stump up another 500k or 1m baht - just not until next year. If they took any such action against me then they would get nothing from me ever again and I know it's all about the money.

 

I don't think they can stop issuing the entrance stamps at the port because the rules say they have to issue a 1 year stamp every time you enter.

 

Edited by ukrules
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What is confusing for me is that before extending for the 6th year, we specifically went to CW immigration to ask them if it was legal. They told us it would be stupid not to do it as he was entitled to 1 year if he came back before expiry date. Could they retroactively change that?


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21 minutes ago, MsBom said:

What is confusing for me is that before extending for the 6th year, we specifically went to CW immigration to ask them if it was legal. They told us it would be stupid not to do it as he was entitled to 1 year if he came back before expiry date. Could they retroactively change that?

You only get a 6th because you’re still a member. The issue is whether or not immigration can cancel a permit to stay if the member does not renew; which they can. Whether or not TE/IB will actually do that only time will tell.

 

6 years was always a potential bonus. Membership was always advertised as 5 years.

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1 hour ago, ukrules said:

If they change the rules they will stop issuing the entrance stamps that are valid beyond the membership date but I don't think it's that easy, immigration are clearly following the letter of the law - they're not going to retroactively apply it to people who are stamped in correctly as confirmed by immigration at the port of entry and every 3 months when we do the 90 day reports and then tell us we're all on overstay.

The point I made earlier is that TE have now put it in writing so anyone receiving that notification doesn’t have a leg to stand on.

 

They haven’t changed the rules. Where does it say you can get 6 years for the price of 5 years membership. Permission to stay issued to a PE visa holder is no different to any other permit. Immigration can legally cancel it if the circumstances it was issued for change.

 

The possibility of 6 years has been discussed for the last 5 years, but it has never been guaranteed, and we’ve had to wait until the end of the first 5 years to see how or if TE would deal with this loophole.

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10 minutes ago, ukrules said:

It's not potential when you're half way through it - it's real.

 

The 6th year permit was never really going to be an issue. As I’ve said, the question was whether or not it would continue to be honoured once the membership expired.

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13 hours ago, digbeth said:

if you turn up on the very last day of validity of your visa, they could stamp you with a 30 days or something. 

Potentially we are talking here of people turning up with perhaps 29 days left of their Elite membership, only being given a permission of Stay of 30 days too. You may get the Privilege of a fancy golf cart to immigration and fast track immigration, but not the one year permission that is touted. Worse still, they dangle the sword of Damolcles over you, if you do get a one year stamp. 

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