Max69xl Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 3 hours ago, seajae said: we went to Phuket yesterday to pick up some things and stayed overnight due to the heavy rain and too many idiots on the road then returning this morning, as we didnt stay away from our house for 24 hours we should not have to submit either forms going by the law as it is written, guess I will find out next week when I do my 90 day report. If the place you stayed at asked for your passport, they probably reported you. If they did and your local Immigration office has the last address in the database, good luck trying to convince them that you didn't go away for >24 hours. But,as you say,you will find out next week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 25 minutes ago, bluesofa said: I agree that's what the TM 28 says it's for. I just find it safer to believe no one in immigration and take as much paperwork as I possibly can to avoid a wasted trip. I posted on another topic that two IO's in the same immigration office gave three different answers to one question on two separate days. They probably didn't attend same 1 day workshop. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 1 hour ago, Max69xl said: If the place you stayed at asked for your passport, they probably reported you. If they did and your local Immigration office has the last address in the database, good luck trying to convince them that you didn't go away for >24 hours. But,as you say,you will find out next week. I have to go twice to Bangkok and each time stay for just one night to get a passport renewed, unless I use a "dodgy" service. So I started enquiring about the need for TM30s because I don't like to keep hassling my landlord. This was before this recent TM28 issue began. A friend of mine told me he showed only his Thai driving license when booking into a Bangkok hotel, because then they don't report him as staying there. He said when he returned to his province the IO showed him his information on the computer screen and there was no report from the hotel. So recently I asked a "Foreign Volunteer" at Phuket Immigration about making a TM30 report after a one-night trip to Bangkok. I was told that you can stay in a hotel overnight and show them your Thai driving license instead of your passport. Then they "don't report you". This is the "Smart way", I was told. So even though I didn't mention showing the driving license as ID, the volunteer confirmed what my friend had told me. But I don't see why the hotel can't report you because your driving license has your passport number on it. But it doesn't have your Immigration number on it - the 8 digit number on the TM30 "Receipt of Notification" in your passport that starts with your postcode's first two digits, then the letter "B", then 5 numbers. So maybe the hotel uses that number to report you. So I may now have blown wide open this method of avoiding being reported by a hotel as I am sure there are Immigration personnel reading Thaivisa. But I don't care - you have to break eggs to make an omelette - the "omelette" in this case being a reporting system that is clear, easy and sensible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 6 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said: I have to go twice to Bangkok and each time stay for just one night to get a passport renewed, unless I use a "dodgy" service. So I started enquiring about the need for TM30s because I don't like to keep hassling my landlord. This was before this recent TM28 issue began. A friend of mine told me he showed only his Thai driving license when booking into a Bangkok hotel, because then they don't report him as staying there. He said when he returned to his province the IO showed him his information on the computer screen and there was no report from the hotel. So recently I asked a "Foreign Volunteer" at Phuket Immigration about making a TM30 report after a one-night trip to Bangkok. I was told that you can stay in a hotel overnight and show them your Thai driving license instead of your passport. Then they "don't report you". This is the "Smart way", I was told. So even though I didn't mention showing the driving license as ID, the volunteer confirmed what my friend had told me. But I don't see why the hotel can't report you because your driving license has your passport number on it. But it doesn't have your Immigration number on it - the 8 digit number on the TM30 "Receipt of Notification" in your passport that starts with your postcode's first two digits, then the letter "B", then 5 numbers. So maybe the hotel uses that number to report you. So I may now have blown wide open this method of avoiding being reported by a hotel as I am sure there are Immigration personnel reading Thaivisa. But I don't care - you have to break eggs to make an omelette - the "omelette" in this case being a reporting system that is clear, easy and sensible. The volunteer are not allowed to tell you to use the drivers license. It's against the law not reporting you and using the drivers license when checking in, is not allowed. Probably they are not licensed or just lazy. The reason for asking for the passport is that they need name, nationality,passport number and the TM6-card number,maybe even entry stamp date to fill in the TM30 form. That's why they normally takes a few copies. This is just an explanation how the hotels/guesthouses are supposed to do it. I don't personally care a bit if they don't report me, and there are many small nice hotels and guesthouses all over Thailand that never report foreigners. But they have to do it by law. If you're staying at proper hotels and licensed guesthouses they will ask for your passport,and they will submit the TM30 report. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 4 hours ago, Wongkitlo said: Yes. You obviously have not read the other person's posts.He seems to think that immigration has a central database which will be able to keep track of everyone but I do not think that is the case. Every province is independent. I was saying even if they did have a central database it would not work because it would rely on human input. There does seem to be alot of confusion in this thread about whether people need to submit after a short stay in another province,even if less than 24 hours. Naturally anybody posting in this thread would not be a tourist staying in a hotel. Sent from my SM-J730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Of course they have a central database. That's the whole idea. How do you think the local Immigration office in a province would know that someone has been staying in a BKK hotel? When I say they don't care about tracking tourists,I mean it's impossible because of the many hotels and guesthouses which are not submitting the TM30. But tourists normally leaves Thailand before the visa expires,so they know they have left when they go through Immigration at the airport. That's why you return the TM6-card to the IO,and he scans your passport. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsetBkk Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 52 minutes ago, Max69xl said: Probably they are not licensed or just lazy. if, by "they", you mean the hotel, it is a four star hotel in Sukhumvit area. Sorry, no numbers, no names. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 26 minutes ago, JetsetBkk said: if, by "they", you mean the hotel, it is a four star hotel in Sukhumvit area. Sorry, no numbers, no names. In that case a 4 thai star hotel. Not same rating system here as they use in international hotel chains. They rate themselves. It's not very often you find a "proper" hotel in Sukhumvith area who accepts a drivers license and not submit the TM30. But there are loads of hotels in that area, so anything can happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spermwhale Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 This fiasco just keeps getting worse and worse. "Oh don't worry about the TM30 you won't be punished, but by the way YOU have to file the TM 28 every time you come back from abroad or another province." Thailand has become a sick joke. Can't wait to leave this joke of a country... a few more months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aledale Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 I think the point is that the foreign have to fill in TM28 in case the owner will not deposit the TM30 by 24 hour in order to declare the address. After that all the problems and the fine will be on the owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martinhp Posted September 1, 2019 Share Posted September 1, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 11:59 AM, BigBadGeordie said: So as I understand this, I did a 90 day report yesterday (TM47), and I have gone to stay at my friends for the weekend I have to complete a TM28 and my friend has to complete a TM30 within 24 hours. On returning home on Monday I have to complete another TM28 and my wife has to complete another TM30 within 24 hours to say I have returned? Madness!! yes sure this is another rule there have no point but i dont understand why the goverment think all the landlords need to do there job for free and even get a fine if they dont nothing is free here not even to own a hotel they must pay an amount for every single report a hotel from 30 rooms up need to hire a person to do this job why the think free it does not help others anything only work why should that be free or if free the immigration officers must conduct the work for the government ,they pay them salary how they do up to them but dont ask working people to do it and for free. as for the tourist they are acutely geast here invited by the government on the behalf of the thais its the same as you going to a restaurant and before you finished your meal you have to fill out a form where you stay and so on. who like that this is about respect which they are rather harsh on when inflict others but when its within it seams not to matter equally reremind of the sim card registration it is with no point it have not help as "intended" like tm30 never will pure dictatorship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DannyCarlton Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 6:02 AM, ThaiBunny said: You're living in a xenophobic, authoritarian country. That's the reality Am I bovvered? Does it affect me? No. That's the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 10 hours ago, aledale said: I think the point is that the foreign have to fill in TM28 in case the owner will not deposit the TM30 by 24 hour in order to declare the address. After that all the problems and the fine will be on the owner. Even if this works in Phuket,it will never work in others provinces. They will still always demand a TM30 to be reported by "someone". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wongkitlo Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Of course they have a central database. That's the whole idea. How do you think the local Immigration office in a province would know that someone has been staying in a BKK hotel? When I say they don't care about tracking tourists,I mean it's impossible because of the many hotels and guesthouses which are not submitting the TM30. But tourists normally leaves Thailand before the visa expires,so they know they have left when they go through Immigration at the airport. That's why you return the TM6-card to the IO,and he scans your passport. Went today to Chonburi for tm30. On serial tourist visas. One trip to Bangkok, one to Trat. Asked each time if they reported to immigration. Back from border run. In and out in 5 minutes. No fine. Either they don't know or they don't care. Sent from my SM-J730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 7 minutes ago, Wongkitlo said: Went today to Chonburi for tm30. On serial tourist visas. One trip to Bangkok, one to Trat. Asked each time if they reported to immigration. Back from border run. In and out in 5 minutes. No fine. Either they don't know or they don't care. Sent from my SM-J730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Jomtien Immigration does not require a new TM30 report if, let's say an expat goes somewhere within in Thailand,and comes back to the same address. He just does his next 90 days report as usual. Jomtien Immigration do understand the problems with TM30 reporting for expats. But, if a Pattaya-expat leaves the country on a re-entry permit,then he is supposed to submit the TM30 at Jomtien Immigration when he comes back. That's because he now has a new Departure Card = TM6 with a new number. The old number is connected to the latest TM30 report. If Immigration police were smarter, the IO behind the TM30-desk or the IO behind the 90 days report desk could just change TM6-card number and entry date in the computer. So easy, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred white Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 12:52 PM, billsmart said: You need to limit your friends to those who live within your own province... ???? Or don't say anything. Unless you stay in a hotel they'll never know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred white Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 hours ago, Max69xl said: Jomtien Immigration does not require a new TM30 report if, let's say an expat goes somewhere within in Thailand,and comes back to the same address. He just does his next 90 days report as usual. Jomtien Immigration do understand the problems with TM30 reporting for expats. But, if a Pattaya-expat leaves the country on a re-entry permit,then he is supposed to submit the TM30 at Jomtien Immigration when he comes back. That's because he now has a new Departure Card = TM6 with a new number. The old number is connected to the latest TM30 report. If Immigration police were smarter, the IO behind the TM30-desk or the IO behind the 90 days report desk could just change TM6-card number and entry date in the computer. So easy, really. The tm30 might make a little sense if you leave the country but for travel within the borders of Thailand it's stupid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 12:52 PM, billsmart said: You need to limit your friends to those who live within your own province... ???? Or report nothing, don't think Imm. have the man-power to visit every house in Thailand everyday to asertain if a potential criminal farang happens to be staying there. If visiting a friend - report nothing to anyone - how will they know you are visiting - only if you tell them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 5 minutes ago, Fred white said: The tm30 might make a little sense if you leave the country but for travel within the borders of Thailand it's stupid You're right. I'm happy I don't need to report when I come back from another province. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Denis Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 9/1/2019 at 9:06 AM, seajae said: we went to Phuket yesterday to pick up some things and stayed overnight due to the heavy rain and too many idiots on the road then returning this morning, as we didnt stay away from our house for 24 hours we should not have to submit either forms going by the law as it is written, guess I will find out next week when I do my 90 day report. I doubt you will get away with this, because if the Hotel has filed a TM30 that Hotel will turn up as your latest place of stay in the IO database. Even if you stay only 1 hour after the TM30 has been filed by the Hotel, a new TM30 has to be filed to document your 'next stay'. Please keep us informed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 1 hour ago, Fred white said: The tm30 might make a little sense if you leave the country but for travel within the borders of Thailand it's stupid Stupid - - fast becoming the "hub of stupid" it is unbelievable how stupid these latest enforcements are becoming - - just shows a complete lack of anything approaching intelligence. Ok, re-entering the country there maybe a need to ensure your details are correct - but for a 24 hour local visit, stupid in the extreme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wongkitlo Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 Jomtien Immigration does not require a new TM30 report if, let's say an expat goes somewhere within in Thailand,and comes back to the same address. He just does his next 90 days report as usual. Jomtien Immigration do understand the problems with TM30 reporting for expats. But, if a Pattaya-expat leaves the country on a re-entry permit,then he is supposed to submit the TM30 at Jomtien Immigration when he comes back. That's because he now has a new Departure Card = TM6 with a new number. The old number is connected to the latest TM30 report. If Immigration police were smarter, the IO behind the TM30-desk or the IO behind the 90 days report desk could just change TM6-card number and entry date in the computer. So easy, really. No. If you search tm30 and Chonburi immigration you will find an interview with immigration. For long stay visas they dont need a tm30 for travel within Thailand but for tourist visas they do. There are several articles and an audio file.Sent from my SM-J730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mngmn Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 1:47 PM, bearpolar said: They prefer having people calling them monkeys not stayu in their country they are trying to preserve thailand. As much as the tm30 annoys me, i will never complain about it. I want Thailand to stay thais and i want whiny angry racist sexpats to go back home. Immigrants have destroyed my country and i'd prefer if immigrants didnt destroy thailand. Err you are an immigrant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
My 2 cents Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 1:01 PM, losername said: According to the full article the TM28 only has to be done on returning to your home location and the TM30 is done by the person (hotel in my case) where you stay while away. Read carefull and keep in mind, the moment that the landlord files for a TM30, your adres is changed and therefore you need to report a change of adres. Again, if you get back at home... merry around... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lkv Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 3 hours ago, mngmn said: Err you are an immigrant Most are not immigrants, perhaps himself also unless he has PR/citizenship. That's why they call them non-immigrant visas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 3:49 PM, rooster59 said: Foreigners just need to make sure that they fill in a TM28. Then they need to explain what they are to immigration staff. I tried to do one in Chiang Mai and the officer didn't know what it was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted September 2, 2019 Share Posted September 2, 2019 On 8/31/2019 at 4:09 PM, Vacuum said: TM28 vs TM30, They are the same! On top of that, a TM47 is also required every 90 days. They are not the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hooliganzone Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 I went to an island on Friday for 3 nights the hotel I had booked did not ask me for my passport or any ID and I didn't fill anything out, I just paid for the 3 nights and left a 500 baht deposit they gave me the key and that was that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 1 hour ago, Hooliganzone said: I went to an island on Friday for 3 nights the hotel I had booked did not ask me for my passport or any ID and I didn't fill anything out, I just paid for the 3 nights and left a 500 baht deposit they gave me the key and that was that. the system is so full of holes it's a joke - but that's normal in LOS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max69xl Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 46 minutes ago, Artisi said: the system is so full of holes it's a joke - but that's normal in LOS. Yes,and many small hotels or guesthouses are not licensed even if you can book a room at, for example Agoda. Some small family hotels doesn't have a clue about TM30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LivinginKata Posted September 4, 2019 Share Posted September 4, 2019 42 minutes ago, Max69xl said: Yes,and many small hotels or guesthouses are not licensed even if you can book a room at, for example Agoda. Some small family hotels doesn't have a clue about TM30. So So true. The average Thai wants nothing to go with any form of Gov official. Small hotels worried that occupancy number shared with Tax Dept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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