What they don't tell you about clearing off to Vietnam

[wisperone]

5 hours ago, robsamui said:

 

Most of you will already know that the currency is insane. Bank notes with 6 zeros. It’s not so much the silliness of the numbers – it’s that there are SO many different notes in use.

LOL...yes, when not use to so many zeroes, sometimes the brain doesn't quickly register the amount. I found myself always counting the zeroes to make sure I wasn't making a mistake. Watching others at the counters paying, everyone seemed to have the same problem. The cashiers were generally helpful in helping people sort it out as they know the colors related to different bills and will point to what you have in your wallet.

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Langkawee said:

HCMC and newrby is where the losers are, the North won the war, the North is a salt of the Earth place, history defined that with the courage of defeating the Yankees and French. Stay away from the losers.  

Is life completely different in the north of Vietnam ?

Is there no crime or fake alcohol etc ?

[Langkawee]

1 hour ago, brokenbone said:

body too broken to try to acclimatize in any new environment, even more if i have to spend half a day trying

to get what i want, i cant even do that.

 

if i had a properly working body i would

appreciate the lower cost tho, and inconveniences wouldnt be such a drag.

i just hope i die before i have to leave,

relocating is too painful

How old are you? The Who, hope I die before I get old, has its benefits.

[sanemax]

They dont tell you about the incessant noise of the motorbikes beeping their horns , the noise does get mentioned , but not to the extent that exists .

    The beeping is non stop incessant and is the min reason why I couldnt live in Vietnam

[Langkawee]

10 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Is life completely different in the north of Vietnam ?

Is there no crime or fake alcohol etc ?

I walked 10 to 20 kilometres every day for a month with tablet in my hand guiding me to places inn both HCMC and Hanoi and smaller towns, was never snatched. Hanoi has class, HCMC and southern areas more like the Southern Islands of Thailand. There is BIG C, no need to buy fake alcohol anywhere in Vietnam if one uses their brain. Still people can be nice in HCMC.

[Langkawee]

24 minutes ago, Langkawee said:

I walked 10 to 20 kilometres every day for a month with tablet in my hand guiding me to places inn both HCMC and Hanoi and smaller towns, was never snatched. Hanoi has class, HCMC and southern areas more like the Southern Islands of Thailand. There is BIG C, no need to buy fake alcohol anywhere in Vietnam if one uses their brain. Still people can be nice in HCMC.

As Marvin Gaye sang, believe none of what you hear and half of what you see. Certainly don't believe much you read in the media, including Thaivisa, in Vietnam you dont have the farang prejudice, nor in any other SE Asian country. 

[blackcab]

Off topic posts have been removed.

[blackcab]

A quality post full of good information. I'm moving this to the Vietnam Forum.

 

Thanks for taking the time to write this @robsamui.

 

 

[Thaiwrath]

2 hours ago, madmen said:

geez that's just crazy. Thanks for exposing the scaming. I think those running from tm30 form Will be jumping from frying pan in to the fire!

Also, many people going there are expressing how easy tourist visas etc. are to get.

That was the same in Thailand not that long ago. It was so easy to go from anywhere in N.E. Thailand to Vientianne and get a visa year after year, but the Thais saw what was happening, and put a stop to it.

What happens when the Viet Government clamps down ? What is plan C ?

[gunderhill]

6 hours ago, Yinn said:

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

Same old  clap trap I see, impressive ignorance.

[gunderhill]

38 minutes ago, Thaiwrath said:

Also, many people going there are expressing how easy tourist visas etc. are to get.

That was the same in Thailand not that long ago. It was so easy to go from anywhere in N.E. Thailand to Vientianne and get a visa year after year, but the Thais saw what was happening, and put a stop to it.

What happens when the Viet Government clamps down ? What is plan C ?

What if, can go on forever.

[robsamui]

5 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

robsamui, that's a pretty fair description of life in Vietnam, having just spent almost two years living in Vung Tau, southeast of 
Saigon, and a much earlier spell on the west side of the Delta.

 

A few remarks: 

 

Viets are very security conscious. The worst times for crimes are after any big sporting event (gambling) in which a lot of people will lose big amounts of money, their motorcycles and cars or even their homes. I know one foreigner whose heavily gated and barred house was broken into and numerous big bikes, cash and other valuables were stolen, despite there being a security guard. He believes it was an inside job, while they were away briefly, because the robbers took the window bars and front door bars apart and no one saw or heard anything.  The robbers needed the money to pay off their debts with the mafia, the victim told me. It was right after a major soccer series. On the other hand, after say the World Cup, there will be lots of almost new expensive motorbikes in the second-hand shops. I'm not joking. 

 

I never had any such crime problems and felt completely safe in Vung Tau. Overall, everyone was nice and friendly. Never felt the shops were ripping me off, except for a couple of minor incidents of over-charging. 

 

Regarding currency. Keep 500,000, 200,000 and 100,000 VND notes separate from the lower value notes. The blue 500,000 and 20,000 notes look very similar, as do the reddish 200,000 and 10,000 notes.

 

In tourist areas, with big weekend influxes, get your money out of the ATM beforehand. Machines often go empty or offline in the weekend onslaught. 

 

I determined I was not going to ride a motorcycle in VN in any way, shape or form. I've ridden scooters for years in Thailand and Cambodia. The Viets are the most unpredictable, brainless riders I've ever seen. In a one-month period, no less than 4 people I know, 3 foreigners and 1 Viet, had serious accidents. Of course, almost no one has a licence or insurance. Victim pays. 

 

There's absolutely nothing like the Thai 7-11s in VN. Although there are a couple now in Saigon. Circle K is the best run convenience chain. Family Mart is not bad either. Vinmart expanding crazily but not well managed and pretty useless from my point of view. All of them are raising their game though, bit by bit. 

 

However, I learned to buy basic supplies only from the chain stores. The mom and pop places, I believe, sell dodgy or counterfeit items like booze and water. A friend had independently decided to do the same. I voiced my suspicions about a mineral water of a well known label and he revealed he came to the same conclusion because he felt sick a number of times. Me too.

 

Last, booze. Lots of counterfeit whiskey, vodka, Jagermeister. Tends to be fake booze in bars that sell it for unbelievably low prices, such as buy one, get one free. Regular headaches led me to suspect contaminated Black Label and Jagermeister. Stopped drinking them, immediately no more headaches. I switched to Jameson, which seemed quite OK, but later someone said he felt they were counterfeiting that too. Felt the same about the cartons of Mevius Wind Blues I was buying at a popular foreigners' market compared to the somewhat better packs I bought  at Circle K in Saigon. But the Thai ones are far superior. 

 

OK, this is starting to get rather negative. It's part and parcel of why I left Vietnam. 

 

 

Thanks  so much for this. It's perceptive and astute and has added to my perception of the country. Much obliged!

[brokenbone]

5 hours ago, Langkawee said:

How old are you? The Who, hope I die before I get old, has its benefits.

early 50

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, Thaiwrath said:

Also, many people going there are expressing how easy tourist visas etc. are to get.

That was the same in Thailand not that long ago. It was so easy to go from anywhere in N.E. Thailand to Vientianne and get a visa year after year, but the Thais saw what was happening, and put a stop to it.

What happens when the Viet Government clamps down ? What is plan C ?

I am on a few ex-pat FB Vietnam pages and there are often complaints about how difficult it is to get visas to stay long term in Vietnam

[Jack Mountain]

Thx for the report. Question, are there gated community Villages like in Thailand? How much for a rental house 2 bedroom,2 bathroom, community pool if available?

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, Jack Mountain said:

Thx for the report. Question, are there gated community Villages like in Thailand? How much for a rental house 2 bedroom,2 bathroom, community pool if available?

You could have a look online to see Vietnamese property rent availability , but condos /hotels/accommodation is about 1/3 rd  more than in Thailand , (Thai prices away from the tourist areas, that is )  

[jesimps]

Food for thought there. Thanks for taking the time to post.

[bangkok12345]

I made this move from Bangkok to HCMC myself 12 years ago for work, in my mid 20s - naively thinking “just neighbors, can’t be THAT different”, just to make similar experiences than yours, now I can just laugh about it and it’s entertains me reading the OP ???? 

[Kerryd]

So many foreigners (in Thailand) gripe and moan about having to do the TM.30s and 90 day reports.
Imagine if they had to renew their visa every 90 days !

As I've mentioned in other threads, there is a huge difference between visiting a place and actually living there. The OP's post helps highlight that difference. I've also mentioned that one has to consider what one is willing to put up with (or without) when deciding to live in a foreign country. Obviously there are cheaper countries to live in than Thailand, but the downside(s) may be more than most are willing to accept.

Some more detailed information would be helpful though.
Such as, can foreigners own land there or is it like Thailand ?
How much are the (3 month) Visas (if there is any cost) and what are the requirements (if any) ?

Do they have reporting requirements like Thailand ? 
What are the internet speeds and packages like (price-wise) ? Also, the availablity outside of the major cities.

Many foreigners love their "footie" (or other English language programming such as news and movies), what are the TV services like ? (Cost and availability).

One thing I hated about Cambodia was the noise, especially for wedding ceremonies where they blast the music as loud as possible ALL DAY LONG. Frik - it seemed every village and town we went through had at least one wedding happening everyday ! That alone is enough to for me to never want to move there.
It's already been mentioned about the constant honking in Vietnam. (I noticed India was like that as well - people would start honking the moment they saw another vehicle, even if it was on the other side of a divided, well lit, 4 lane highway at 2 in the morning !)
What about other noise such as weddings, blaring announcements on loudspeakers, bars/karaokes blasting music until the wee hours, etc.

The availabilty of foreign foods would be an issue for some, especially if living away from the larger cities. Not much different from Thailand in that case, except that Thailand seems to have a 7/11 or Family Mart (or both) on almost every city block or in every village of more than a thousand people (and it's pretty easy to get stuff delivered if ordering online). Of course, that would be the more expensive option which would rule it out for those seeking greener "cheaper" pastures. Again, it depends on what a person is willing to give up in exchange for a cheaper cost of living.

Medical clinics and healthcare would also be a consideration (for some of us). It's obvious that a lot of foreigners in Thailand can't afford Health Insurance (if they can't afford to meet the financial requirements and are using agents to get around that, I seriously doubt they are splashing out for health insurance either). Those people wouldn't care about such matters in a place like Vietnam either, but others might.

Years ago (almost 25 years ago now, when I was still in the Army) I was trying to find a place I might like to retire to one day. I made a list of some countries in SE Asia, Central and South America that might be suitable.

I never even considered Vietnam (or Laos), mainly because of their communist governments. Other places have shaky governments as well but I've never trusted a communist government and certainly wouldn't want to live under one. Cambodia was shaky as well back then (the UN had a peacekeeping mission there back in '93 at the same time I was on a peacekeeping mission in Croatia). 
It seemed to be the common thread amongst all the "cheaper" retirement destinations - shady governments that could crumble (or go rogue) in an instant. The places with seemingly more stable governments (like Belize and Costa Rica) were also the more expensive options.

All that being said, it is nice to hear from people that actually live in a place (as opposed to just visiting it for a weekend) as it can be a real eye opener, especially for all those "That's the final straw ! I'm leaving Thailand and moving to (wherever) because (wherever) is so much better then here !" people. (Not that it'll stop them from saying that. Might make a few of them change their supposed destination to a different greener cheaper destination though !)

 

[yimlitnoy]

If you keep going you will be most popular in this forum. We are learning a lot from your experience. Thank you for this and do not stop. 

[blackjack69]

Something worth reading at last, well done.

[phkauf]

Just a couple of thoughts based on my Vietnam experience (more than 20 trips). 

- I find the people to be as friendly as Thais, maybe even more so. I travel alone and very often are asked to join a group at a bar or dinner - one newlywed couple I shared a table with in Da Nang even wanted to pay for my dinner! 

- Shopping while not as ubiquitous as Thailand, is still good. They have Big C and other big chains. While not a 7-11 every 100 meters, there's Family, Circle K and many local options. Plus they don't have the extortionate retail monopolies as in Thailand, so prices are more reasonable.

- Crime has never been an issue for me (again more than 20 visits) but I am aware of the various tourist related scams and don't do stupid stuff. In fact, violent crime against foreigners is almost zero due to severe penalties.

- Food is amazing, as good as Thai food. Coffee is great, especially the better quality stuff. Beer is cheap as can be - same price as water and Coke in most places. No stupid taxes and restrictions to protect local billionaires as in Thailand.

- Scenery is better than Thailand, although Thai beaches overall are slightly better.

- If you make an effort to speak their language (as difficult as Thai, especially with different regional dialects) and learn their customs, you will be so much the better. Amazing how no turns to yes, with a little effort on your part.

 

Otherwise thanks for the hints about shipping stuff and your experiences. I am thinking of making a move to Da Nang if I do leave BKK. 

 

[Truthhurts]

Good report. 

Must say I am bewildered.

I read on here many times that thailand was ruined/finished etc and that anywhere else was better.

Just goes to show eh.

Grass, greener etc etc

[Truthhurts]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

So many foreigners (in Thailand) gripe and moan about having to do the TM.30s and 90 day reports.
Imagine if they had to renew their visa every 90 days !

As I've mentioned in other threads, there is a huge difference between visiting a place and actually living there. The OP's post helps highlight that difference. I've also mentioned that one has to consider what one is willing to put up with (or without) when deciding to live in a foreign country. Obviously there are cheaper countries to live in than Thailand, but the downside(s) may be more than most are willing to accept.

Some more detailed information would be helpful though.
Such as, can foreigners own land there or is it like Thailand ?
How much are the (3 month) Visas (if there is any cost) and what are the requirements (if any) ?

Do they have reporting requirements like Thailand ? 
What are the internet speeds and packages like (price-wise) ? Also, the availablity outside of the major cities.

Many foreigners love their "footie" (or other English language programming such as news and movies), what are the TV services like ? (Cost and availability).

One thing I hated about Cambodia was the noise, especially for wedding ceremonies where they blast the music as loud as possible ALL DAY LONG. Frik - it seemed every village and town we went through had at least one wedding happening everyday ! That alone is enough to for me to never want to move there.
It's already been mentioned about the constant honking in Vietnam. (I noticed India was like that as well - people would start honking the moment they saw another vehicle, even if it was on the other side of a divided, well lit, 4 lane highway at 2 in the morning !)
What about other noise such as weddings, blaring announcements on loudspeakers, bars/karaokes blasting music until the wee hours, etc.

The availabilty of foreign foods would be an issue for some, especially if living away from the larger cities. Not much different from Thailand in that case, except that Thailand seems to have a 7/11 or Family Mart (or both) on almost every city block or in every village of more than a thousand people (and it's pretty easy to get stuff delivered if ordering online). Of course, that would be the more expensive option which would rule it out for those seeking greener "cheaper" pastures. Again, it depends on what a person is willing to give up in exchange for a cheaper cost of living.

Medical clinics and healthcare would also be a consideration (for some of us). It's obvious that a lot of foreigners in Thailand can't afford Health Insurance (if they can't afford to meet the financial requirements and are using agents to get around that, I seriously doubt they are splashing out for health insurance either). Those people wouldn't care about such matters in a place like Vietnam either, but others might.

Years ago (almost 25 years ago now, when I was still in the Army) I was trying to find a place I might like to retire to one day. I made a list of some countries in SE Asia, Central and South America that might be suitable.

I never even considered Vietnam (or Laos), mainly because of their communist governments. Other places have shaky governments as well but I've never trusted a communist government and certainly wouldn't want to live under one. Cambodia was shaky as well back then (the UN had a peacekeeping mission there back in '93 at the same time I was on a peacekeeping mission in Croatia). 
It seemed to be the common thread amongst all the "cheaper" retirement destinations - shady governments that could crumble (or go rogue) in an instant. The places with seemingly more stable governments (like Belize and Costa Rica) were also the more expensive options.

All that being said, it is nice to hear from people that actually live in a place (as opposed to just visiting it for a weekend) as it can be a real eye opener, especially for all those "That's the final straw ! I'm leaving Thailand and moving to (wherever) because (wherever) is so much better then here !" people. (Not that it'll stop them from saying that. Might make a few of them change their supposed destination to a different greener cheaper destination though !)

 

Great great post

[TPI]

17 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

So now your life have many problems. But is cheaper. 

 

Maybe you can find the cheaper worse country and be more happy. Ethiopia is very cheap.

 

Good luck Rob.

 

The other thred talk about all the farang in Thailand will leave to go live in Vietnam. 

How many really go?

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

 

i go there before. Is interesting. 

But....

the people spit INSIDE the restaurant, bar, etc. Yuk.

And not smile. Not “ow jai”

Noi Yinn, I can see you're angry at people talking about leaving the LOS but think of it this way...if they leave you wont have to look at them any more and you can be happy?

[Letseng]

17 hours ago, robsamui said:

if you read the OPs post , he makes it clear that the cost of living in Thailand is now too high, and that Vietnam is between half and 2/3 of the cost.

Cost of living is linked to standard of living.

[Leatherneck]

19 hours ago, robsamui said:

Actually - it's not! The info above relates to the pitfalls of people coming to live here, and if that isn't you, then you'll find it boring.

I'm in Nha Trang, which has a climate the same as Koh Samui. The central part of the city is crammed full of different nationalities, with little Viet cafes side-by-side with nightclubs and Aussie pubs and market stalls, the streets are tree-lined and hung with fairy lights, a Grab motorbike costs 50 baht to go 6 Km across town, there are events and displays happening frequently . . . the only thing I miss are bars on the beach. Apart from that it's fun - and it's permanently affordable!

Excellent write-up...spot on on many aspects of living in Vietnam IMO. 

 

Been traveling regularly in Vietnam since 2004 and have been in more places than most Vietnamese (according to my Vietnamese friends). The past four years or so I have been in-country about 4 months every year. During that time I've contemplated making the permanent move over but haven't pulled the trigger...at least not yet. Two of the main reasons are points that you brought out: ATM machine withdrawals and driving licenses. Banking in Vietnam is still in the Stone Age. I've checked with a number of banks about opening an account and there are so any restrictions and requirements that it makes my head spin. And since I am retired and would not be working and have a work permit, that was a deal breaker. So I would be left with using ATM machines and only be able to make microscopic withdrawals on a constant basis just for daily living. And the restrictions on driving licenses is just as bad, especially that licenses are only valid for the length of one's visa. I've had some agents tell me that they could get me one-year visas (not totally confident about that though) so at least I could have a one year license (but that pales by comparison to having a 5-year Thai license).

 

As for the Vietnamese, I find them to be much more friendly and trusting than most Thais. I've made many more good Vietnamese friends just traveling there than I have made Thai friends living here. I also like that most Vietnamese don't treat me like a walking ATM machine. I'm always arguing with my Vietnamese friends about who's gonna pay for coffee, lunch, dinner, etc...I'm considered their guest and they always want to pay. Only a few times have I ever experienced similar hospitality in Thailand.

 

As for living in Nha Trang, not sure what to say about that so I'll just say it. I was there in March and after that trip, I said I'll never go back there again. The place is definitely not for me anymore. The problem is that I first went to Nha Trang in 2004 and experienced it when it was really great back then. But it's a hellhole now IMO...too many tourists, way too much development, terrible traffic, a lot of unhappy non-local Vietnamese who really don't want to be there but need the work, etc.  And it's only gonna get worse. But if you like it there, good luck.

 

Hen gap lai.

 

 

 

 

[CHiangMaiMuu]

18 hours ago, Yinn said:

 

So now your life have many problems. But is cheaper. 

 

Maybe you can find the cheaper worse country and be more happy. Ethiopia is very cheap.

 

Good luck Rob.

 

The other thred talk about all the farang in Thailand will leave to go live in Vietnam. 

How many really go?

i think they not like the farang? Because you killed there grandfather, rape the grandmother and bomb there house. Burn the village.

 

i go there before. Is interesting. 

But....

the people spit INSIDE the restaurant, bar, etc. Yuk.

And not smile. Not “ow jai”

I served in the war in Vietnam, in 1969-1970, and I lived there for about 4 months altogether this year.

And I have to say YOU ARE A GODDAMN LIAR.

First place, people in Vietnam never did believe that trash that the communists said about the Americans in Vietnam; the common people had to go through the years of hell when the Viet Cong came in the night to their villages and took their rice and raped their daughters and took their sons to train to be savage killers. In some parts of the country, in Quang Nam province, many of the local people were refugees from North Vietnam who had left their homes to get away from the communists. They looked to "us" - Marines in the C.U.P.P.  units along side the South Vietnamese Regional Forces - to protect them from the guerillas. I used to go through the village with the Navy Corpsman (like a nurse) to translate for him, since I had gone to the 3-month Vietnamese language course in the States. The Corpsman treated the villagers illnesses as best he could. The Vietcong raped them and beat their children.

 

Second place,  even if you don't believe that, you are 100% wrong in what you say about the Vietnamese people's attitude to farangs. The people that I asked in the spring of this year in Vietnam said that the communists lied about the Americans. My young Vietnamese friend in Quy Nhon, whom I hired as a language teacher and guide, told me her mother told her the Americans were good to her. She worked on an Army base back then and, even after the brain-washing they did on her she still says - quietly - that the communists lied. My friend's older brother down in Saigon also said the same thing about the Viet Cong. He is making it as businessman, in spite of the oppression by the communists some people are making it because they are naturally entrepreneurs, resourceful and courageous. And they have to remain quiet or they die. And they want American advisors and tourists and investor.

 

People like you - you remind of the American Air Force veteran - who sat out the war in England and also thinks the Americans "lost" in Vietnam - you think that by not being there and by listening to propaganda 

put out by cowards who sent young people out to murder other people you are experts on the issue. Even the facts that they took out 60,000 of our boys and we killed over a million of them does not impinge on your mind.

 

The people in South Vietnam do not hate us. The people who work for the government is Vietnam have a more positive attitude to us that the Thai government. Clearly that is shown by the fact that the government makes it easier for farangs to move to Vietnam and move around in Vietnam without nonsensical restrictions. 

 

And they are able to write the English language better than you.

[Misab]

Thank You Robsamui, for a very good information.  I am still in the lucky position that I can stay in Thailand but you never know when the day come and the Thai Bahts come up where I cannot stay anymore.

I hope someone living in the Philippines and someone living in Malaysia also would write what they don’t tell us about living there.

 

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

14 hours ago, sanemax said:

They dont tell you about the incessant noise of the motorbikes beeping their horns , the noise does get mentioned , but not to the extent that exists .

    The beeping is non stop incessant and is the min reason why I couldnt live in Vietnam

 

After about six months, I thought I was becoming immune to the sound of horns. But it didn't last. Every day, there will be several incidents of guys leaning on the horn all the way down the street or an intercity bus with its over-amped horn or multi-tone horn that pierces your spinal nervous system. During which you issue a stream of colourful language or raise an inconspicuous middle finger. Or you can be trapped in a taxi or Saigon-bound limo van while the driver holds his left hand on the horn button the entire route. Bangkok is an oasis of quiet after this.