Opponents of 'no-deal' Brexit defeat PM Johnson, who promises an election

[Jip99]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

I disagree, this is democracy functioning as it should do, the democratically elected members of the house are fighting for what they see as the best way forward for the country in a legal way, different from the beer mat banging at the local pub by people (of both sides) who only have a limited view of the repercussions of their opinions. It is considered discussion over flag waving patriotism.

As for violence on the streets that was never the British way (not withstanding the knife stabbings), the French will dig up cobble stones and hurl them at the police, the British write letters to the 'Times'.

 

 

The arrogance of "we know better" will have consequences.

[Jip99]

31 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But Boris said at least a hundred times in the last weeka that he does not want a GE. Was he lying?

 

 

No

[bannork]

4 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

The arrogance of "we know better" will have consequences.

The consequences of a no deal Brexit are far more frightening than the anger of ill-informed leavers who don't realise how difficult it will be to set up new trading deals post no deal Brexit.

[AlexRich]

That little dog will be getting sent back to the dog pound .... poor little sod.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I fear London will soon make Hong Kong look tame. You can't just remove people's democracy because they chose a course unpopular with the elite and benefits brigade. If people are worried about their pensions converting badly to baht just wait until the molotov cocktails start flying. There has been ample chance to deliver Brexit. Due process, peace and democracy have failed the people, what comes next...?

Civil disobedience or worse cannot be far away...

[GalaxyMan]

11 minutes ago, JoePai said:

I have realised the remoaners have been right all along when they say I did not know all the true facts before voting to leave, so I decided to do a little research.

 

I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters, and that we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration, our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats, and had to pay eye-watering amounts for the privilege.

 

I did not know more than 10,000 EU officials get paid more than our prime minister.

 

I did not know that unlike the UK, 18 countries get more back from the EU than they put in.

 

I did not know that the EU occupies over 45 buildings 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe.

 

I did not know that the EU parliament spends 150million Euros a year moving to Strasbourg every month for 4 days committee meetings, any attempt to stop this stupidity is vetoed by France.

 

I did not know that the EU has had a huge luxury shopping Mall built in Brussels for the exclusive use of EU employees.

 

I did not know that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.

 

I did not know that many of them (like the Kinnocks) end up as millionaires as a reward for looking the other way.

 

I did not know that Clegg was lying when he mocked Nigel Farage for saying that an EU army was being planned.

 

I did not know that the EU had been financing the mass movement of industries from UK to mainland Europe.

 

I could go on and on but suffice it to say that I have never for a moment doubted the correctness of my decision, I am so glad that the remoaners prompted me to look deeper into the bureaucratic absurdity of being in the EU.

 

As an American, I find this fascinating, and sad. An American economist, Nobel laureate Paul Krugman, has from the get-go said that the whole EU was built half-assed backwards, that they needed to start with common basic policies, not invent a currency then figure out the rest. He has long predicted that the way the EU is structured is not conducive to longevity because the foundation upon which it is built is flawed. The corruption is neither surprising nor unexpected; governments are inherently corrupt, being primarily composed of professional liars. The UK is paying the price for its centuries of colonization, it would seem, all of its former colonies' citizens moving to the UK legally when overlordship disappeared. It would seem that the UK dug its own grave.

[AlexRich]

13 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

He doesn't want one, but when Parliament is acting against the result of the democratic referendum there is a solid case to let the people decide (again!).

 

Funny how all the Remainers have been crying out for a second vote, and when they get their chance they don't want it because they know they'd get smashed at the polls and you'd end up with a massive Leave majority in Parliament.

 

The opposition are likely to vote against a General Election so they can keep their Remain Parliament and continue to frustrate the process for another couple of years. For Remainers complaining about the pound weakness, buckle in because these games are only making it worse and embarrass the UK political system even further.

 

Where you crying as you wrote that? I thought Brexit was about “taking back control” by Parliament? Now it seems to be about tinpot dictators shutting down parliament to deny elected representatives a say? Labour not falling into a trap that would enable Johnson to engineer “no deal” ... Johnson looking increasingly rattled now that he is getting some push back. He looks increasingly like a loser ... a fitting end to his career as a political chancer.

[AlexRich]

5 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Civil disobedience or worse cannot be far away...

 

LOL ... old people smashing up tea rooms, and wastrels setting fire to the Benefits office? I’m scared.

[kamahele]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I fear London will soon make Hong Kong look tame. You can't just remove people's democracy because they chose a course unpopular with the elite and benefits brigade. If people are worried about their pensions converting badly to baht just wait until the molotov cocktails start flying. There has been ample chance to deliver Brexit. Due process, peace and democracy have failed the people, what comes next...?

Um, the PM is the elite.... As for democracy, all of those who voted against a hard Brexit were elected by the people unlike the leader of Hong Kong who was appointed by Mainland China. The citizens of the UK may choose not to vote for them in the next election. 

[DannyCarlton]

5 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

LOL ... old people smashing up tea rooms, and wastrels setting fire to the Benefits office? I’m scared.

Angry old expats picketing the British Embassy.......Oh, they've just demolished it!

 

Anyone know where the new one is?

 

OK, let's gather in Nakon Nowhere, have a few beers and throw eggs at a cardboard cut out of Corbyn. That'll show 'em!

[Orac]

31 minutes ago, JoePai said:

I have realised the remoaners have been right all along when they say I did not know all the true facts before voting to leave, so I decided to do a little research.

 

I just voted to leave because I thought our sovereignty was being compromised by foreign unelected masters, and that we were compelled to have unlimited uncontrolled immigration, our laws and export agreements dictated by Brussels bureaucrats, and had to pay eye-watering amounts for the privilege.

 

I did not know more than 10,000 EU officials get paid more than our prime minister.

 

I did not know that unlike the UK, 18 countries get more back from the EU than they put in.

 

I did not know that the EU occupies over 45 buildings 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe.

 

I did not know that the EU parliament spends 150million Euros a year moving to Strasbourg every month for 4 days committee meetings, any attempt to stop this stupidity is vetoed by France.

 

I did not know that the EU has had a huge luxury shopping Mall built in Brussels for the exclusive use of EU employees.

 

I did not know that every day queues of chauffeur driven cars with their engines running, wait outside EU establishments while their occupants go in, sign in for their attendance allowance and expenses, then come straight back out and are driven away.

 

I did not know that many of them (like the Kinnocks) end up as millionaires as a reward for looking the other way.

 

I did not know that Clegg was lying when he mocked Nigel Farage for saying that an EU army was being planned.

 

I did not know that the EU had been financing the mass movement of industries from UK to mainland Europe.

 

I could go on and on but suffice it to say that I have never for a moment doubted the correctness of my decision, I am so glad that the remoaners prompted me to look deeper into the bureaucratic absurdity of being in the EU.

 

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head there identified the problem with the thought process going on here.

 

Your first paragraph says you knew very little about the EU so did some research which appears to be going to a pro brexit facebook page and copy/pasting some anti EU screed.

 

It is no wonder we are in such a state if people just take someone elses points and claim them as their own rather than actually doing the reseatch they claim.

[stephenterry]

Not a lot to say. Seems like Johnson's bullying approach only riled the tory rebels, and will continue to do so. 

 

As for a GE that is most likely once a no-deal is garbaged, I consider that the Lib Dems would be kingmakers by joining a Labour coalition government. That's if they've got any respect for deciding what's best for the country - which clearly Johnson doesn't. 

 

He'll probably go down in history as the most reviled PM ever. Not that I'll be around to witness it as this brexit garbage is likely to stink out Westminster for years ahead. 

 

 

[DannyCarlton]

1 minute ago, Orac said:

 

I think you have hit the nail on the head there identified the problem with the thought process going on here.

 

Your first paragraph says you knew very little about the EU so did some research which appears to be going to a pro brexit facebook page and copy/pasting some anti EU screed.

 

It is no wonder we are in such a state if people just take someone elses points and claim them as their own rather than actually doing the reseatch they claim.

He probably was sent the information from a very nice lady who sent him personal messages on Facebook. (a.k.a Dominic Cummings and AIQ. The "European Army" was the giveaway, complete fiction often quoted in many of the 60 million+ PMs sent by AIQ and Cambridge Analytica.)

 

Spambots, the new democracy.

 

 

 

 

=

[IAMHERE]

Is there a limit as to how many times the UK can kick this Brexit down the road ?

[TopDeadSenter]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

Not a lot to say. Seems like Johnson's bullying approach only riled the tory rebels, and will continue to do so. 

 

As for a GE that is most likely once a no-deal is garbaged, I consider that the Lib Dems would be kingmakers by joining a Labour coalition government. That's if they've got any respect for deciding what's best for the country - which clearly Johnson doesn't. 

 

He'll probably go down in history as the most reviled PM ever. Not that I'll be around to witness it as this brexit garbage is likely to stink out Westminster for years ahead. 

 

 

Likely this will come down to either a Lab/LibDem coalition or Brexit/Conservative coalition. My money is on the latter. London is just a small part of England, the rest of the country overwhelming wanted to regain sovereignty.

 Of course, should Lab/LibDem win an election they will let us have a 2nd election. A second vote, to make sure people really understood what they voted for. And then maybe a 3rd? All this time without actually assuming power and governing as per the electoral mandate. Right?!

[sungod]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

But Boris said at least a hundred times in the last week that he does not want a GE. Was he lying?

Corbyn changes his tune with the weather........

 

[flossie35]

3 hours ago, AlexRich said:

Boris Johnson single handedly destroys his own party ... instead of "taking back control" he completely loses control ... and his transparent ruse to force a General Election is likely to back fire badly ... he won't get that until "no deal" is off the table.

 

Rejoice, Rejoice, Rejoice!

 

 

Boris's incompetence was always his best feature. A blessing for the rest of us.

[elliss]

4 hours ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

They’re already backpedaling. Leadsom said those 21 MPs would get a second chance at the next vote. Does she really think anyone cares? 

    Only a matter of weeks , before Boris will be backpedaling out of Downing street ,

      The circus clowns , comes to mind , ah those were the days . 

       gbp on the up , 37 baht today..

 

[ThePioneer]

4 hours ago, webfact said:

will on Wednesday seek to pass a law forcing Johnson to ask the EU to delay Brexit until Jan. 31

At least they have smarten up so far in that they don't add a year anymore to the suggested delay date

[Chomper Higgot]

PM with gun to head of British economy receives instruction on why he should not put a gun to the head of his own Party.

 

Will he learn threats don’t work?

[DannyCarlton]

2 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Likely this will come down to either a Lab/LibDem coalition or Brexit/Conservative coalition. My money is on the latter. London is just a small part of England, the rest of the country overwhelming wanted to regain sovereignty.

 Of course, should Lab/LibDem win an election they will let us have a 2nd election. A second vote, to make sure people really understood what they voted for. And then maybe a 3rd? All this time without actually assuming power and governing as per the electoral mandate. Right?!

If we have an election after October 31st, highly likely, and we haven't left the EU, increasingly likely, Faerage has vowed to contest every seat. It's been shown in previous elections that Brexit/UKIP primarily takes votes from the Tories. Given the above scenario, this would be even more true in an upcoming election. This will split the Tory vote asunder and could possibly leave them as the 3rd party.

[JonnyF]

17 minutes ago, AlexRich said:

 

Where you crying as you wrote that? I thought Brexit was about “taking back control” by Parliament? Now it seems to be about tinpot dictators shutting down parliament to deny elected representatives a say? Labour not falling into a trap that would enable Johnson to engineer “no deal” ... Johnson looking increasingly rattled now that he is getting some push back. He looks increasingly like a loser ... a fitting end to his career as a political chancer.

Why would I be crying? It has no direct effect on me as I live in Thailand and earn in Baht and have done for over 12 years. 

 

I suggest you enjoy your gloating while it lasts though. Brexit will happen in the end, if Remainers want to drag this process on for another couple of years then they can accept the consequences for that but it won't change anything, there is no way this genie is going back into the bottle. You can force delay upon delay, there will be a General Election sooner or later. Revoke? Get ready for Farage, he isn't going anywhere either.

 

You can only ignore the wishes of the people for so long. If you wish to harm the country by putting it on hold for another 2-3 years while Parliament embarrasses itself then feel free, it won't change the result in the end. 

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Likely this will come down to either a Lab/LibDem coalition or Brexit/Conservative coalition. My money is on the latter. London is just a small part of England, the rest of the country overwhelming wanted to regain sovereignty.

 Of course, should Lab/LibDem win an election they will let us have a 2nd election. A second vote, to make sure people really understood what they voted for. And then maybe a 3rd? All this time without actually assuming power and governing as per the electoral mandate. Right?!

We'll see. I would expect that Lib Dems would construct their manifesto to declare that voting for them means the UK stays in the EU. 

 

As for farage stating that he wouldn't contest against the tories providing Johnson says he would exit with a no-deal, shows what a scumbag he is. 

[Rookiescot]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

We'll see. I would expect that Lib Dems would construct their manifesto to declare that voting for them means the UK stays in the EU. 

 

As for farage stating that he wouldn't contest against the tories providing Johnson says he would exit with a no-deal, shows what a scumbag he is. 

Think the Lib Dems would want a second referendum.

[Chomper Higgot]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Why would I be crying? It has no direct effect on me as I live in Thailand and earn in Baht and have done for over 12 years. 

 

I suggest you enjoy your gloating while it lasts though. Brexit will happen in the end, if Remainers want to drag this process on for another couple of years then they can accept the consequences for that but it won't change anything, there is no way this genie is going back into the bottle. You can force delay upon delay, there will be a General Election sooner or later. Revoke? Get ready for Farage, he isn't going anywhere either.

 

You can only ignore the wishes of the people for so long. If you wish to harm the country by putting it on hold for another 2-3 years while Parliament embarrasses itself then feel free, it won't change the result in the end. 

You’ve made enough posts on the matter of Brexit to reveal it does matter to you, direct effect or not.

[Orac]

8 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

He probably was sent the information from a very nice lady who sent him personal messages on Facebook. (a.k.a Dominic Cummings and AIQ. The "European Army" was the giveaway, complete fiction often quoted in many of the 60 million+ PMs sent by AIQ and Cambridge Analytica.)

 

Spambots, the new democracy.

 

 

 

 

=

 

It is of course a load of hyperbole and opinions dressed up as fact.

 

I do see he is claiming as fact:

 

"I did not know that the EU occupies over 45 buildings 2 of which were purpose built monuments of grandeur and are the largest buildings in Europe."

 

Maybe he can redeem himself by actually doing some research and backing this up with a link.

[AlexRich]

3 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Likely this will come down to either a Lab/LibDem coalition or Brexit/Conservative coalition. My money is on the latter. London is just a small part of England, the rest of the country overwhelming wanted to regain sovereignty.

 Of course, should Lab/LibDem win an election they will let us have a 2nd election. A second vote, to make sure people really understood what they voted for. And then maybe a 3rd? All this time without actually assuming power and governing as per the electoral mandate. Right?!

 

For the last month Boris Johnson has been charging around the UK with a bag of Philip Hammond's savings making spending announcements left, right and centre ... as well as charming our European friends and trying to con them that he is serious about a deal. So far so good, and with no opposition to deal with you get a boost in the polls.

 

But that mask slipped only recently, the pursuit of "a deal" was a sham and the real objective was to run down the clock, engineer a "no deal" Brexit and then go to the polls once we are out of the EU, but before the disaster of "no deal" becomes apparent to voters, thereby eliminating the threat from the Brexit Party, ensuring victory. That's what prorogation was all about. And now he looks increasingly rattled and less assured. It turns out that he's mistaken Dominic Cummings inspired bullying as a strategy. But neither he nor Cummings are half as clever as they think they are ... and voters are waking up to him. Expect another hung parliament with the Lib Dems forcing through a second referendum. Factor in demographics and death statistics and we'll find that the current "will of the people" is Remain.

 

Don't shoot the messenger.

 

 

[elliss]

1 hour ago, MarineEquine said:

If there is a general election Labour will be annihilated. 

 You speak for the British electorate ?. 

  One TV forum member one vote,  in the name of democracy..

 

 

 

[JonnyF]

3 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

If we have an election after October 31st, highly likely, and we haven't left the EU, increasingly likely, Faerage has vowed to contest every seat. It's been shown in previous elections that Brexit/UKIP primarily takes votes from the Tories. Given the above scenario, this would be even more true in an upcoming election. This will split the Tory vote asunder and could possibly leave them as the 3rd party.

Absolute nonsense once again ????. Farage said yesterday he will stand aside for a No Deal. This is about as valid as your claim that Remainers would respect the result of a second referendum if they lost, which I also proved to be a complete lie with direct quotes from the leader of the Lib Dems. You really should try sticking to the truth. Please see below.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1173241/Brexit-news-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-Boris-Johnson-general-election-no-deal-latest

 

 

 

[Rookiescot]

5 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Absolute nonsense once again ????. Farage said yesterday he will stand aside for a No Deal. This is about as valid as your claim that Remainers would respect the result of a second referendum if they lost, which I also proved to be a complete lie with direct quotes from the leader of the Lib Dems. You really should try sticking to the truth. Please see below.

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1173241/Brexit-news-Nigel-Farage-Brexit-Party-Boris-Johnson-general-election-no-deal-latest

 

 

 

The important words are "if no deal Brexit is delivered".

This is of course the no deal Brexit that Farage claimed he didnt want prior to the referendum.