Thailand's foreign businesses balk at stricter immigration tracking

[NCC1701A]

"Let's see. I killed that guy last night. What was it I needed to do today? Oh yeah, my TM30."

 

[sunnyboy2018]

58 minutes ago, dhind1 said:

Sorry my friend, as soon as you try to do a 90 day report and or renew your visa, they will be requesting your TM30. If your particular immigration office is not requesting this then you are definitely lucky and I would not expect it to last long.

 

 

I have never been asked for one in 4 years. I live in a rented condo and travel in and out of the country and around the country. Maybe they will ask for one future.

[kotsak]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

The next news will be, TM30 is dropped for business people but the old farts who have lived here with their families for donkey's years without causing trouble will have to comply with TM30.

TIT style logic which means it's very probable ????

[Jingjock]

1 hour ago, dhind1 said:

Sorry my friend, as soon as you try to do a 90 day report and or renew your visa, they will be requesting your TM30. If your particular immigration office is not requesting this then you are definitely lucky and I would not expect it to last long.

Done a ninety day report last week, no TM30, was in and out 1 minute 20 seconds. It was stated that retirees living in at the same address, did not need it unless they have moved. I report to Jomtien

[sunnyboy2018]

6 minutes ago, Jingjock said:

Done a ninety day report last week, no TM30, was in and out 1 minute 20 seconds. It was stated that retirees living in at the same address, did not need it unless they have moved. I report to Jomtien

Which authorities said this and where? Can UJ clarify this?

[asiaexpat]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

All laughing aside, the tm30 requirement does make it difficult for a person like that to find a place to stay. He cant stay in hotels or guest houses so that either leaves dodgy places, houses of friends (would you let a murderer in?), or the streets. 

Ya, I just watched three guys check into a Chinese owned room in my condo building,. AirB&B rental for two weeks and condo forbids such rentals so I am sure no TM 30 was filed (owner in Hong Kong.) Juristic person does not make reports or even check on short term renters. 

[flyfrog]

I just come back from Europe, I work here and have work permit, do I have to get that TM30 paper?

[gunderhill]

3 hours ago, Biikqth said:

I suspect that the government will hold the line until a large company, such as a motor vehicle manufacturer, says that it is relocating from Thailand because the restrictions are impacting on the happiness of its expat employees and causing them to want to leave Thailand.

Wife deals with Toyota employees finding them accommodation THEY ARE  NOT  HAPPY.

[DavisH]

3 hours ago, Jacob Ree Smog said:

Oh my, I've been hearing a lot about this TM30 hoo-ha over the last few months. Can't say I've ever done one nor plan to do one in the future. I'm predicting that in six months time or so this nonsense shall be dropped completely due to pressures from business and local Thai people losing money. None of my fellow peers have every filled one out either. It all seems a tad silly in this day and age.

Which is your immigration office?

[bluesofa]

24 minutes ago, Chiang Mai Bill said:

Is the Thai public data infrastructure is capable of compiling the TM30 reports that, once entered on to a central database by personnel in police stations all over the country, will be compiled together, processed into a huge database broken down into area, then city, towns, villages, alphabetically -- taking into account the names of peoples of different nationalities -- then searched for the names of any undesirables and overstayers? 

 

Of course, the data will have to be updated on a daily basis adding to it, taking off those 'tee-em-thirtyers' who have moved from their hotel/apartment/residence and who 'may' be re-entered when they move to another address to ensure not too many duplicates are entered! Of course, the expiry dates of visas will be interlinked with Immigration's database to ensure farangs have left the kingdom (or not!)! Phew!

 

Seems they have a very sophisticated bit of software here !  Very!

Ha ha ha! Sophisticated!

About fifteen years ago when TM30 was only done by hotels, the house rental company I worked for registered to do the same. After months of faffing about by immigration, we received a login and password.

 

Their database then was available to browse by any registered user.

I wandered around Chonburi province in the database, being able to list people by different categories really easily.

I remember there were over fifteen Chinese illegal immigrants  who had been caught and deported within one month.

[prakhonchai nick]

1 hour ago, Bob12345 said:

All laughing aside, the tm30 requirement does make it difficult for a person like that to find a place to stay. He cant stay in hotels or guest houses so that either leaves dodgy places, houses of friends (would you let a murderer in?), or the streets. 

Plenty of dodgy places and short-time "hotels" that do not require any ID............(so I am told) ????

[gunderhill]

41 minutes ago, Bantex said:

My Thai wife took my first TM30 to the local immigration office last week and it was dealt with quickly and receipt issued within a couple of minutes. As she was leaving she was told not to fill in any more TM30’s for me but to just phone them instead on my return as needed as they know who I am and that I have a Thai family and I don’t work. My local IO also thinks the TM30 will be dropped soon as they can see no benefit to it.

Wife has  a  customer for a room today  called  her  from  immigration who were  asking my Wife for his TM30 when he hasnt even moved into the  bloody  room yet!!  How  stupid is  that

[AI5AASIA]

1 hour ago, Jacob Ree Smog said:

As a matter of fact I just did my 90 day report last week. No mention of TM30, I was in and out the office in 20 minutes. Piece of cake. 

I guess you could also post in your 90 day notification and no need for TM30 report 

[gunderhill]

1 minute ago, AI5AASIA said:

I guess you could also post in your 90 day notification and no need for TM30 report 

or heaven forbid online.

[peter14]

i bought 2 condo  but i feel like a criminal.... sure get the  ..... out of thailand  you spent  too many  days here !!!! shame on  Thailand !   f ine..  I love the Philippines !

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, dhind1 said:

Sorry my friend, as soon as you try to do a 90 day report and or renew your visa, they will be requesting your TM30. If your particular immigration office is not requesting this then you are definitely lucky and I would not expect it to last long.

 

 

Bridges to be crossed when you come to them. 

[Charlie1]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

All laughing aside, the tm30 requirement does make it difficult for a person like that to find a place to stay. He cant stay in hotels or guest houses so that either leaves dodgy places, houses of friends (would you let a murderer in?), or the streets. 

Also today on Thaivisa: Hua Hin: Two hundred Illegal hotels apply for amnesty

do you really think they wanted TM30 from their customers?

[Benmart]

3 hours ago, Jacob Ree Smog said:

Oh my, I've been hearing a lot about this TM30 hoo-ha over the last few months. Can't say I've ever done one nor plan to do one in the future. I'm predicting that in six months time or so this nonsense shall be dropped completely due to pressures from business and local Thai people losing money. None of my fellow peers have every filled one out either. It all seems a tad silly in this day and age.

My peers have done the TM 30 shuffle, so there appears to be those that try to obey the laws and those that don't. I've never run afoul of the law for complying, but certanly paid for ignoring it. I daresay, I wouldn't tell anyone in Thai authority, "A tad silly in this day and age" if I were trying to explain being a scafflow.

Up to you", as is said.

[CanterbrigianBangkoker]

3 hours ago, Jacob Ree Smog said:

Oh my, I've been hearing a lot about this TM30 hoo-ha over the last few months. Can't say I've ever done one nor plan to do one in the future. I'm predicting that in six months time or so this nonsense shall be dropped completely due to pressures from business and local Thai people losing money. None of my fellow peers have every filled one out either. It all seems a tad silly in this day and age.

Yes, I also imagine they'll soon drop the whole thing. It's a dated and totally irrational idea - one that's purpose seems to be completely unobtainable via this method. As others have said, what kind of subversive or terrorist would be staying in a public domain or ever even consider reporting their whereabouts?! Furthermore, it's near impossible to effectively implement or to even know whether such a law has been breached in the first instance. It requires voluntary reporting from us detestables ferringhis and/or the locals who are harbouring us ????.  So, what is the point of such a law? Especially one that is so hard to enforce? In a country like Thailand where even the most basic and easily enforcable edicts are rarely imposed, what hope is there that one as difficult to enforce as this ever will be!? It's farcical, and is simply a way for the greedy saps in government to generate more revenue. I agree with your appraisal - it'll be yet another flash in the pan, and will be removed from Thai legislation within the year I'd imagine, especially if bodies like the JFCCT and foreign embassies start protesting and making threats of decamping for greener pastures - as they should.

 

Typical Thai myopia I'm afraid. Pretty soon there'll have no feet left to shoot themselves in. ????

 

BTW - Love the avatar!

[TSF]

2 hours ago, outsider said:

 

True, that might make them have a serious rethink. But what I think they WILL do, if it comes to that, is to give exemptions to people from, say the auto industry, or people employed by companies that fall under certain 'exemptions'. TiT

I think you're right, they would do it like that, but others on marry & retire ext still do the TMs.

 

It's not the business foreigners they want rid of, it's the married & retirees, so they will keep hitting us with annoying and ever-increasing regulations, giving us the run around until we throw in the towel.

[trigpoint]

2 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

All laughing aside, the tm30 requirement does make it difficult for a person like that to find a place to stay. He cant stay in hotels or guest houses so that either leaves dodgy places, houses of friends (would you let a murderer in?), or the streets. 

Many low budget hotels and guest houses don't register you with immigration, some don't even ask for your passport, just cash in my experience, so it's quite easy to keep under the radar. 

[outsider]

16 minutes ago, TSF said:

I think you're right, they would do it like that, but others on marry & retire ext still do the TMs.

 

It's not the business foreigners they want rid of, it's the married & retirees, so they will keep hitting us with annoying and ever-increasing regulations, giving us the run around until we throw in the towel.

 

Well I guess it's working, if this survey is anything to go by:

 

 

[Jaxxper]

2 hours ago, dhind1 said:

Sorry my friend, as soon as you try to do a 90 day report and or renew your visa, they will be requesting your TM30. If your particular immigration office is not requesting this then you are definitely lucky and I would not expect it to last long.

 

 

I agree, if the office gets audited they will clamp down big time.

[Thaifriends]

I now dream of TM30 because I follow this forum regularly ????

[Thaifriends]

Thailand was taken for granted by many retirees and long term stay without a residense visa as follows:

1. Many worked without WP, earned by putting investment on Thai citizen's name, evade tax by doing so. Many provided false docs to get residense O

2. Many lived more then 3-6 months on tourist visa and visa run was considered a legitemate option

 

Now the govt seems to be more focused on above. Hope all goes well for everyone. Good weekend.

[Chongalulu]

3 hours ago, Bob12345 said:

All laughing aside, the tm30 requirement does make it difficult for a person like that to find a place to stay. He cant stay in hotels or guest houses so that either leaves dodgy places, houses of friends (would you let a murderer in?), or the streets. 

There will always be many places that don’t bother for this type to find. I find that nearly all hotels where my wife makes the booking and checks in they don’t request my details even when standing behind her,and if I wait in the car while she does...

[kimamey]

2 hours ago, madmitch said:

It is not difficult to find a guesthouse/Airbnb etc that does not report to Immigration

I would think that's especially the case since it seems it's the visitor not the guesthouse/Airbnb owner that pays the fine.

[bluesofa]

13 minutes ago, Thaifriends said:

I now dream of TM30 because I follow this forum regularly ????

I dream of Jeannie.

[Stevemercer]

'Another is that immigration officials are opportunistically stoking their cash flows with additional fees and fines'. 

 

The above quote from the article explains a some of Thailand's problems. The fix is to ensure that money from fines and fees etc collected by agencies all goes back into consolidated revenue (e.g. back to the Treasury) and agencies rely on their budget allocations rather than supplementing their incomes. Get rid of the incentive for agencies to line their own pockets with fines and fees etc.

[kimamey]

41 minutes ago, TSF said:

I think you're right, they would do it like that, but others on marry & retire ext still do the TMs.

 

It's not the business foreigners they want rid of, it's the married & retirees, so they will keep hitting us with annoying and ever-increasing regulations, giving us the run around until we throw in the towel.

I'm not disputing what you say but why is it that they want to get rid of the married and retired?  We may not all contribute large amounts but there must be a steady flow of extra money in the long term. It might be less than from tourists but it's not just for a couple of weeks and we are more likely to be here next year than a tourist.  Especially if we're made to feel welcome.