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Getting out of a trap


moogradod

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3 hours ago, vinniekintana said:

Classed as old?    I chat up 40s-50s women quite regularly.

You will be surprised at their bloated sense of self-worth.

...but we are veering off-topic

They are classed old for work, and often replaced by younger in Thailand if do not have an key role in a company. 

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This IS what i would do. For me she HAS to look after her baby her self. She can not go out without taking her baby with her. She has to learn she wants to play adult games and get pregnant there are consequences. They teach sex education in school so her mother has to find out what happen. She think cant get baby standing up?The father HAS to pay something enforced by law. You and your wife could have taken her to another country for abortion. She has to learn she will loose her friends cos they can go out and she cant. No way would i want to be forced to take care of somebody else's child. Go to where she works and remind them there is a minimum wage about 11,000 a month. YOUR TRAPPED WITH A BABY THATS NOT YOURS. Failing that many places to work in your chosen town pattaya if she can speak english BUT She HAS TO TAKE CARE HER Baby not you or her mum. 

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9 minutes ago, helloagain said:

This IS what i would do. For me she HAS to look after her baby her self. She can not go out without taking her baby with her. She has to learn she wants to play adult games and get pregnant there are consequences. They teach sex education in school so her mother has to find out what happen. She think cant get baby standing up?The father HAS to pay something enforced by law. You and your wife could have taken her to another country for abortion. She has to learn she will loose her friends cos they can go out and she cant. No way would i want to be forced to take care of somebody else's child. Go to where she works and remind them there is a minimum wage about 11,000 a month. YOUR TRAPPED WITH A BABY THATS NOT YOURS. Failing that many places to work in your chosen town pattaya if she can speak english BUT She HAS TO TAKE CARE HER Baby not you or her mum. 

Obvious, you have not understood anything how thing works in Thailand. Huh

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21 hours ago, elcaro said:

Get her to learn how to code. It's free to learn online. After that she can pay to do the tests and get certificates. It seems intimidating at the start but there is always work to be found as a half decent coder with some certificates. Salary would at least triple and have a 5 day work week, then with freelance jobs on the side she will be able to make a decent living.

Certificates are useless. Well, at least in my domain.

 

A person has to have critical thinking skills, not just the ability to learning a programming language in "21 days."

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My first question is does she have any work ethic ie is she willing to work all day or lay down all day with her smartphone in an A/C room. 2. What about childcare when the baby is

born ?? 3. where is the father of her and her unborn child ? you might have to chew your own leg off to escape the trap as you put it. buy her a M/C and side car she could sell almost anything and make more money as her low wage seems to be a problem to you.

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19 hours ago, helloagain said:

This IS what i would do. For me she HAS to look after her baby her self. She can not go out without taking her baby with her. She has to learn she wants to play adult games and get pregnant there are consequences. They teach sex education in school so her mother has to find out what happen. She think cant get baby standing up?The father HAS to pay something enforced by law. You and your wife could have taken her to another country for abortion. She has to learn she will loose her friends cos they can go out and she cant. No way would i want to be forced to take care of somebody else's child. Go to where she works and remind them there is a minimum wage about 11,000 a month. YOUR TRAPPED WITH A BABY THATS NOT YOURS. Failing that many places to work in your chosen town pattaya if she can speak english BUT She HAS TO TAKE CARE HER Baby not you or her mum. 

Minimum wage is Chon Buri is 330thb per day (highest in Thailand that I’m aware of) 28x330=9240, not sure where you get 11000 from, and that’s if the business complies. During trial periods it can he less. 

There is no enforceable child maintenance in Thailand, not sure if you’re aware. 

While your other points regarding taking care of the child may be definable and ‘the right way’ to do it it’s impossible to care for a child 24/7 if you have no income, no food and nowhere to live, no? 

Telling people what should have been done in the past or should be done in an ideal world isn’t helpful in the harsh reality that is every day Thailand unfortunately 

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On 9/9/2019 at 9:59 AM, action said:

I think the low paid entry level positions are there to weed out the lazy folks who have no real work ethic.

We thought that as well. That's why she is currently still working there.

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1 hour ago, brianthainess said:

My first question is does she have any work ethic ie is she willing to work all day or lay down all day with her smartphone in an A/C room. 2. What about childcare when the baby is

born ?? 3. where is the father of her and her unborn child ? you might have to chew your own leg off to escape the trap as you put it. buy her a M/C and side car she could sell almost anything and make more money as her low wage seems to be a problem to you.

Thank you all for your well-meant advice. But be assured that taking care of the child of my Stepdaughter is not a problem. And of course nobody intends to force something on her what she does not want. All the other aspects have been catered for as well.

This thread is about a second-chance education. One may assume that other social aspects have been and will be thoroughly thought through.

As far as an own business for her is concerned – and be it as small as can be (Tricycle vendor) I am not so sure if she has the necessary entrepreneurial spirit yet. But it might be an interesting option to be considered in the future if there is a business case (product, market, cost, financing (me ????), possible pricing, competition, licenses required etc. etc. etc.)

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You talk alot about what you want for her... all good intentions, but much more important might be what she wants for herself... 
 
make sure she is involved in the process and assist where and how you can.
 
Best of luck to you... 
 
I am involved with helping many nephews and nieces... it runs from heart-warming to heart-breaking to totally impossible. Ultimately, it depends on their motivation and inclination. They all know their wants and inclinations better than I do. 

Bring a horse to water spring to mind .... if you see a glimmer of enthusiasm ... then go for it ... if not ... well at least you may feel better yourself that you tried ..


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20 hours ago, helloagain said:

This IS what i would do. For me she HAS to look after her baby her self. She can not go out without taking her baby with her. She has to learn she wants to play adult games and get pregnant there are consequences. They teach sex education in school so her mother has to find out what happen. She think cant get baby standing up?The father HAS to pay something enforced by law. You and your wife could have taken her to another country for abortion. She has to learn she will loose her friends cos they can go out and she cant. No way would i want to be forced to take care of somebody else's child. Go to where she works and remind them there is a minimum wage about 11,000 a month. YOUR TRAPPED WITH A BABY THATS NOT YOURS. Failing that many places to work in your chosen town pattaya if she can speak english BUT She HAS TO TAKE CARE HER Baby not you or her mum. 

 

20 hours ago, Tagged said:

Obvious, you have not understood anything how thing works in Thailand. Huh

The father left her beating her up and stealing her motorbike and papers (ID card) and did a run. Since there had been witnesses the police had been involved but with no tangible results. The father has as well threatened my stepdaughter (how serious that is remains a question though). The father is poor and child support is out of the question anyway, enforceable or not.

 

Bottom line: Father runs, no support for the child, even (possible) massive threats remain unheard, motorbike is destroyed. There will be no compensation for anything. The man walks free, problems remain with the girl it seems. The family of my wife is quite big though and everybody is helping the best they can. Regardless of the responsibility of my stepdaughter who helps as well. It is a family affair after all. I will focus on the support for my stepdaughter to enable her to care for all by herself in the future. Regardless of the obvious big mistake she has made. Hence this thread.

 

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On 9/9/2019 at 11:44 AM, AAArdvark said:

I assume that you mean forced to NOT finish high school.  Anyway, 8000 bht is not that bad for Thailand.  It is much better than most factory workers get and about the same as a new Police officer.

Correct. Finished in the sense of "finished early" = "stop". Well I think 8'000.-- THB IS bad. Never heard of someone earning less for 4x48 hours. 12 - 14K is the standard for cashiers in other supermarkets according to advertisements. 20K for someone with English and computer skills. I know a real example.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I believe that this is the link to the Chonburi Ministry of Education Office.

 

http://chon.nfe.go.th/krs/

 

I don't read Thai well enough to find the continuing education link on this page, but your wife or stepdaughter can probably find it and get in touch with them.  Every province has continuing education/adult education options for people who want to get their M3 or M6 certificates.  Classes are cheap (or maybe free) and are offered on the weekends so that working people can do this.  I have known a number of people who never finished High School, for various reasons, and used this option to finish their secondary education.

 

Generally speaking, skills and a good work ethic will get you promoted in Thailand, but when they are hiring people, they only look at their formal education.

 

Getting an M6 certificate will open many doors for her and will give her the opportunity to prove herself and get a better job.

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49 minutes ago, otherstuff1957 said:

I believe that this is the link to the Chonburi Ministry of Education Office.

 

http://chon.nfe.go.th/krs/

 

I don't read Thai well enough to find the continuing education link on this page, but your wife or stepdaughter can probably find it and get in touch with them. 

Great. My wife will have a look at the page. Thank you for the link, otherstuff1957 !

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On 9/8/2019 at 7:09 PM, moogradod said:

To put it politely the standards for Thai Citizens in Thailand seem to be quite different from where I have been living before. THB 8K for a month of 6 day weeks is less than a lawyer in BKK quoted me once for one single hour. And I have never heard of a reputable company employing someone without working contract and even without telling what salary one might expect. But maybe that is really the standard for young unexperienced Thai.

In my experience it should be 9,000 baht a month.

As an unqualified Thai she's got few prospects, but if she can speak English conversationally, a receptionist job in a good hotel may be the key to a better future.

 

BTW, since when did lawyers have to accept a normal wage? Their little club has found the ideal way to <deleted> the rest of us. I never had a good deal from any of them, but I still had to pay large. 

 

And I have never heard of a reputable company employing someone without working contract and even without telling what salary one might expect.

Not been long in Thailand then?

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On 9/8/2019 at 4:42 PM, Fex Bluse said:

Honestly, if she is from a class/caste the Thais consider low, her options will be heavily restricted. 

For example, if she is a poor girl from a family in Isaan, any education will have limited impact on her upward mobility withing the Thai context. 

Also, without any serious long-term strategic roadmap, Thailand is going down the pan which further limits the opportunities for average Thais. 

That said, the plan you've laid out is quite modest. And with no disrespect to you, it's the type of plan that a step parent, any step parent, would have. In other words, most step parents can't love a child as a biological parent might. 

Completely wrong on all counts.

My step-daughter is from a rural farm in Petchabun, her school didn't even have electricity.

After 9 years with me she's finished high school in Chiang Mai, and will complete University next year.

As a native English speaker, she already has job offers of around 25,000bht/month with local firms.

And I definitely love her more than any of my 5 natural children, 4 of whom are completely worthless.

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1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Completely wrong on all counts.

My step-daughter is from a rural farm in Petchabun, her school didn't even have electricity.

After 9 years with me she's finished high school in Chiang Mai, and will complete University next year.

As a native English speaker, she already has job offers of around 25,000bht/month with local firms.

And I definitely love her more than any of my 5 natural children, 4 of whom are completely worthless.

I'm happy for her and you. 

 

However, your anecdote does not dissuade my taking the opinion that Thailand has a definite caste in place that severely limits who can work where in Thailand. 

 

Neither do I consider 25,000 Thai Baht and the anticipated small annual salary increases successful when the higher caste kids, the ones I worked with and employed, and who are often morons, are earning 10x that amount several years into their careers. 

 

All types of Thai academics have written about the unfairness of the Thai system, though they stop short of calling attention to its Thai (usually Sino) elites who perpetuate it. 

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1 hour ago, Fex Bluse said:

Neither do I consider 25,000 Thai Baht and the anticipated small annual salary increases successful when the higher caste kids, the ones I worked with and employed, and who are often morons, are earning 10x that amount several years into their careers. 

Money isn't everything, 25k is enough to buy a house and live on quite comfortably in Chiang Mai.

Earning more doesn't make people more happy, if anything the opposite.

 

I don't want my kids to be rich or special or driven.

Happy is good enough.

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1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Money isn't everything, 25k is enough to buy a house and live on quite comfortably in Chiang Mai.

Earning more doesn't make people more happy, if anything the opposite.

 

I don't want my kids to be rich or special or driven.

Happy is good enough.

Fair enough and your absolute right to raise your kids how you think best. 

 

And, if people are happy in whatever station of life, who is to say they should change. 

 

I get it. 

 

I do, though, wish most Thais had more choices and access to opportunity was more fair. 

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5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

In my experience it should be 9,000 baht a month.

This would be it after the "trial time" (3 months). A really exuberant payrise from 8K. ???? Absolutely ridiculous.

 

5 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Not been long in Thailand then?

I was referring to the situation abroad, but I am actually surprised that very large reputable companies here dare to exert procedures which are unthinkable of everywhere else I know. And I am sad to see that the ones treated unfairly in these ways do not object at all. They simply accept it. First time I came to Thailand was back in 1975.

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5 hours ago, Fex Bluse said:

I'm happy for her and you. 

 

However, your anecdote does not dissuade my taking the opinion that Thailand has a definite caste in place that severely limits who can work where in Thailand. 

 

Neither do I consider 25,000 Thai Baht and the anticipated small annual salary increases successful when the higher caste kids, the ones I worked with and employed, and who are often morons, are earning 10x that amount several years into their careers. 

 

All types of Thai academics have written about the unfairness of the Thai system, though they stop short of calling attention to its Thai (usually Sino) elites who perpetuate it. 

Yeah. I think she should just go on down to Beach road and try hooking for b300 a throw.

 

What a <deleted> cynic. 25k not good enough? She's making 8k now in a dire job. What a horrible outlook on people and life. Blah blah blah.

 

Most Thai don't make 25k pm genius.

 

The guy wants to serious help a young woman who is in a pretty hopeless situation and all you do is spout pessimism, negativity and rubbish. Not even his blood kin. With a kid no less.

 

With the right family and a few breaks, lots of hard work it's possible to sort a life out. I've had a few students who had fought their wayi ntoa great school and overcome odds daily. Then on to Chulalongkorn every one of them!

 

She needs her GED and can go on anywhere she pleases with grades. SAT 1250 may even get her into Chulalongkorn BBA on a lucky day, Thammasat. Mahidol MUIC is a pretty easy in (hot tip). Recommend you work with her bring up her English skills. Mae Fah Luang might take her on scholarship but it's a long way from Chonburi.

 

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On 9/28/2019 at 6:35 PM, moogradod said:

This would be it after the "trial time" (3 months). A really exuberant payrise from 8K. ???? Absolutely ridiculous.

 

I was referring to the situation abroad, but I am actually surprised that very large reputable companies here dare to exert procedures which are unthinkable of everywhere else I know. And I am sad to see that the ones treated unfairly in these ways do not object at all. They simply accept it. First time I came to Thailand was back in 1975.

Thais do accept all sorts of <deleted>. Where I lived the roads were all falling apart because the corrupt people who made them used too little cement and stole the money. Did any complain- no. When the same people that stole their money came offering a few hundred baht to vote for them, they voted for them.

Thailand suffers from a lack of maintenance- no prizes for guessing where the maintenance money goes.

 

Thais make their own bed and they have to lie in it. Sometimes farangs that choose to live in LOS get caught up in the corruption, and need to learn that it's not wise to make a fuss. When in Rome etc.

 

My first time in LOS was in 1974, so I pipped you there. A very different country back then.

They may have progressed in many ways but somewhere along the way they lost their sanuk. The smile vanished years ago.

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  • 2 months later...
On 9/8/2019 at 3:23 PM, moogradod said:

Pragmatic. But you can do one thing without blowing off the other. These well off and overall acceptable farangs are not just waiting around the corner either. But it can work if you are lucky. My wife and me is the very best example. Happy together since 17 years now. But I suspect this is not that common.

 

For the time being some English and MS Office and Typing (I learned 10 finger system some 50 years ago in school and although I got my further edu at both Zurich University and ETH it was one of the more useful things I did ever learn) . And learning languages is extremely useful in particular. Opens up many possibilities. Plus the driving licenses - better to have them than just driving around without - even for a Thai citizen.

 

 

On 9/8/2019 at 3:23 PM, moogradod said:

Pragmatic. But you can do one thing without blowing off the other. These well off and overall acceptable farangs are not just waiting around the corner either. But it can work if you are lucky. My wife and me is the very best example. Happy together since 17 years now. But I suspect this is not that common.

 

For the time being some English and MS Office and Typing (I learned 10 finger system some 50 years ago in school and although I got my further edu at both Zurich University and ETH it was one of the more useful things I did ever learn) . And learning languages is extremely useful in particular. Opens up many possibilities. Plus the driving licenses - better to have them than just driving around without - even for a Thai citizen.

 

As one contributor has already said on this forum, the ability to communicate in English (as well as an outgoing personality) can get a girl of her age a job in the tourism industry - especially in Pattaya; hotel front-desk comes to mind.

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