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British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-hour strike


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British Airways pilots ground planes in unprecedented 48-hour strike

 

2019-09-09T000311Z_1_LYNXNPEF88001_RTROPTP_4_IAG-BRITISH-AIRWAYS-STRIKE.JPG

FILE PHOTO: A British Airways Airbus A320-200 aircraft sits on the tarmac at Heathrow Airport in London, Britain January 8, 2019. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls/File Photo

 

LONDON (Reuters) - British Airways pilots began a 48-hour strike on Monday, grounding nearly all its flights and disrupting the plans of thousands travelers in unprecedented industrial action over a pay dispute.

 

The British Airline Pilots Association (BALPA) last month gave the airline notice of three days of industrial action in September, in the first ever strike by BA pilots.

 

"We understand the frustration and disruption BALPA's strike action has caused our customers. After many months of trying to resolve the pay dispute, we are extremely sorry that it has come to this," BA said in a statement.

 

"Unfortunately, with no detail from BALPA on which pilots would strike, we had no way of predicting how many would come to work or which aircraft they are qualified to fly, so we had no option but to cancel nearly 100% of our flights."

 

Following strikes on Monday and Tuesday, another day of industrial action is scheduled for Sept. 27.

 

Both sides say they are willing to hold further talks.

 

BALPA has said British Airways (BA) should share more of its profits with its pilots. BA has said the strike action is unjustifiable as its pay offer was fair.

 

Thousands of customers have had to seek alternative travel arrangements, and the airline has come in for criticism over how it handled communications with passengers before the strikes.

 

"We hope we can find a way of resolving this dispute. We've been trying very hard to do so for the best part of nine months now but here we are now sadly having to take industrial action," BALPA General Secretary Brian Strutton told BBC radio.

 

He said they were willing to compromise but BA were not prepared to "budge".

 

The airline dismissed a new offer by BALPA last week as an "eleventh hour inflated proposal" that was not made in good faith. BALPA had said it would have called off the strikes this week if BA had engaged with the offer.

 

A spokeswoman for Prime Minister Boris Johnson has urged both sides to end the dispute.

 

The UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) is investigating the airline after it enraged some travelers by wrongly telling them their flights had been canceled.

 

The regulator also reminded the airline to tell customers their rights. During the strikes, BA must offer passengers reimbursement for canceled flights, alternate travel arrangements under comparable conditions or a new flight at a later date.

 

 

(Reporting by Alistair Smout and Michael Holden; Editing by Emelia Sithole-Matarise and Edmund Blair)

 

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-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-09-09
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15 hours ago, madmen said:

sack them all. This happened in oz many moons ago they were made redundant.. no troubles replacing them

 

I know a few pilots. Most sadly are greedy self entitled bar stewards who think they're fully entitled to vast sums for driving a computer controlled plane!

 

Many very competent pilots from less developed countries would be happy to replace them.

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22 hours ago, webfact said:

BALPA has said British Airways (BA) should share more of its profits with its pilots. BA has said the strike action is unjustifiable as its pay offer was fair.

But they do not want to share the losses.

 

If they want to profit from BA's good fortune then they should buy shares in BA, 

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I expect my travel plans to be impacted by this strike, so be it.

 

The pilots are right to fight for the best conditions they can get. 

 

Look around at what weak unions and workers unwilling to support unions has delivered; businesses driving wages and conditions to the floor.

 

Wages declining, work place pensions stripped, zero hour contracts, working people reliant on welfare (AKA State Subsidies to low paying businesses) and all the while obscene levels of boardroom pay and bonuses.

 

I’ll put up with a delay to my travel, the pilots have a right to collectively fight for better pay, good luck to them.

 

 

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I expect my travel plans to be impacted by this strike, so be it.
 
The pilots are right to fight for the best conditions they can get. 
 
Look around at what weak unions and workers unwilling to support unions has delivered; businesses driving wages and conditions to the floor.
 
Wages declining, work place pensions stripped, zero hour contracts, working people reliant on welfare (AKA State Subsidies to low paying businesses) and all the while obscene levels of boardroom pay and bonuses.
 
I’ll put up with a delay to my travel, the pilots have a right to collectively fight for better pay, good luck to them.
 
 


Yes, all a result of joining the EU.

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I really do hope that the British Airways pilots can see how stupid and absurd their action is. Passengers flying with BA, are going to be pretty angry about their flights being cancelled. These pilots are destroying British Airways, they're cutting their own throats.

How damaging is it, when you stop flights for two days ? Very damaging. In Hong Kong, a bunch of mindless idiots went and took over Hong Kong Airport, and caused flights to be scrapped, for two days. The mindless idiots knew that they had made a mistake. That's why some of them tried to apologise after the two-day takeover.

Now then, BA pilots, are you willing to apologise for the disruption that you have caused ? Do it, apologise, and apologise deeply. Are you really dumb enough to strike again in two weeks time ? 
Actually, do it, go and cut your own throats, strike again in two weeks time. Let's see how stupid and dumb you really are.

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9 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

I really do hope that the British Airways pilots can see how stupid and absurd their action is. Passengers flying with BA, are going to be pretty angry about their flights being cancelled. These pilots are destroying British Airways, they're cutting their own throats.

How damaging is it, when you stop flights for two days ? Very damaging. In Hong Kong, a bunch of mindless idiots went and took over Hong Kong Airport, and caused flights to be scrapped, for two days. The mindless idiots knew that they had made a mistake. That's why some of them tried to apologise after the two-day takeover.

Now then, BA pilots, are you willing to apologise for the disruption that you have caused ? Do it, apologise, and apologise deeply. Are you really dumb enough to strike again in two weeks time ? 
Actually, do it, go and cut your own throats, strike again in two weeks time. Let's see how stupid and dumb you really are.

Or.... replace ‘BA Pilots’ with ‘BA Management’ and you get the otherwise of the coin.

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7 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I know a few pilots. Most sadly are greedy self entitled bar stewards who think they're fully entitled to vast sums for driving a computer controlled plane!

 

Many very competent pilots from less developed countries would be happy to replace them.

 

      Can they speak english ? .    555

   

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8 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

I know a few pilots. Most sadly are greedy self entitled bar stewards who think they're fully entitled to vast sums for driving a computer controlled plane!

 

Many very competent pilots from less developed countries would be happy to replace them.

 

Somehow doubt that the "most" bit is actually factual. What I am sure of, is that you can't "drive" one of them computer controlled planes, even if anyone dreamed of letting you have a go. There's a wee bit more to it than that.

 

As for your views on competency level of pilots from "less developed countries" - again, doubt your views are supported by fact. Or that you're much of an authority assessing such levels of competence.

 

People have a right to strike for a variety of reasons. Even pilots.

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50 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Or.... replace ‘BA Pilots’ with ‘BA Management’ and you get the otherwise of the coin.

 

I doubt said poster gives a toss about the strike, other than a chance of having a go at the HK protestors. Other than that one involving an airport - not much similarities.

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Seems to be a little misleading. The article I read said the opposite. BA are refusing to allow flights to go ahead as they have no idea of which pilots may report for work or which aircraft they are qualified to fly.

Its not a strike. Its a lockout.

Well done BA.

Bring it to a head rapidly and resolve the issue. Unions dragging this sort of stuff out for extended periods need pulling in to line.

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3 hours ago, natway09 said:

Just fire the bloody lot

Not too far off.

Planes can take off and fly themselves. They can also land quite easily and safely without human intervention.

Its only the myth of 'safety' that stops it happening, which is quite ironic as the last two mass murderers of note were both commercial aircraft pilots.

AI will see the end of the glorified aerial bus driver in the not to distant future.

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25 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Somehow doubt that the "most" bit is actually factual. What I am sure of, is that you can't "drive" one of them computer controlled planes, even if anyone dreamed of letting you have a go. There's a wee bit more to it than that.

 

As for your views on competency level of pilots from "less developed countries" - again, doubt your views are supported by fact. Or that you're much of an authority assessing such levels of competence.

 

People have a right to strike for a variety of reasons. Even pilots.

Wrong. If you can fly a simulator you can fly a new generation aircraft. That's how 95% of all current pilots learn or older pilots get upgraded. The fantasy of an aircraft pilot being something special finished two decades ago.

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24 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Not too far off.

Planes can take off and fly themselves. They can also land quite easily and safely without human intervention.

Its only the myth of 'safety' that stops it happening, which is quite ironic as the last two mass murderers of note were both commercial aircraft pilots.

AI will see the end of the glorified aerial bus driver in the not to distant future.

 

   Agree , remove human error , and piloks with suicidal flight plans. 

 

   

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28 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Wrong. If you can fly a simulator you can fly a new generation aircraft. That's how 95% of all current pilots learn or older pilots get upgraded. The fantasy of an aircraft pilot being something special finished two decades ago.

 

No, I'm not wrong. Not anyone can fly an airplane. Never mind a commercial one.

If it was that easy, passengers could have been recruited, on the spot, to fly the canceled flights.

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10 hours ago, Bluespunk said:

Clever move on the part of the union. 

Yes, really clever if you were part of the trade union movement in the 1970's. It's hardly the highlight of industrial action innovation Not so clever these days when the company simply locks you out. What's good for the goose etc as the saying goes.

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10 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Yes, really clever if you were part of the trade union movement in the 1970's. It's hardly the highlight of industrial action innovation Not so clever these days when the company simply locks you out. What's good for the goose etc as the saying goes.

Keep telling yourself ba has the upper hand if that makes you feel better. 

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I’m amazed at some of the ridiculous statements made by people here that have no idea what they are talking about.

 

1). There is currently not a single commercial aircraft that can even taxi to the Rwy threshold let alone take off by itself. 

 

2) for an aircraft to “land by itself” requires not only the aircraft to have the capability (not all do and those that do often have faults not allowing them to. A small fault in one system which may seem unrelated to auto land may affect its ability to do so), but the correct ground equipment must also be able to link with the systems on the aircraft to do it. All major airports normally have this ability - but even hkg airport is limited to a reduced autoland capability. Then of course - no aircraft and no airport has the ability to taxi the aircraft to the bay. 

 

3) saying that “it’s just a computer” that controls the aircraft or the autopilot shows an incredible lack of knowledge in commercial pilot operations. It would be like saying by turning on your home computer it will magically do all your tax returns. 

 

4) for the guy talking about the 1989 pilot dispute in Australia - it cost at least two airlines (TAA and Ansett), tens of thousands of jobs, extreme distress amongst not just pilots but all staff not to mention billions in the economy. To this day the effects of bob hawke and his determination and illegal activity (to get airforce pilots to crew passenger flightsto screw the unions) - is still being felt. I know you won’t, but you can read all about it here: http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/aviation/pd89_document.htm

 

as for “no troubles replacing them” you must be joking. There is a world wide pilot shortage - especially in Australia where pilots can get better pay and conditions working for China southern, JAL or even emirates and Qatar. 

 

5) as can be seen in many posts here, the respect once given to pilots has slowly been eroded by a lack of knowledge that “these things fly themselves” which is odd considering autopilots have been around in one form or another since 1912. Computers (flight management systems) have replaced two crew members - a navigator and a flight engineer.  But the role of the pilot has remained unchanged. It’s just the information is being presented in a different format.

 

 

Unless you’re French, getting to the point of going on strike is not made lightly. No one wants to damage the revenue of the company they work for. Please read: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/09/strike-british-airways-pilots-pay-pension-cuts-airline

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7 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

I’m amazed at some of the ridiculous statements made by people here that have no idea what they are talking about.

 

1). There is currently not a single commercial aircraft that can even taxi to the Rwy threshold let alone take off by itself. 

 

2) for an aircraft to “land by itself” requires not only the aircraft to have the capability (not all do and those that do often have faults not allowing them to. A small fault in one system which may seem unrelated to auto land may affect its ability to do so), but the correct ground equipment must also be able to link with the systems on the aircraft to do it. All major airports normally have this ability - but even hkg airport is limited to a reduced autoland capability. Then of course - no aircraft and no airport has the ability to taxi the aircraft to the bay. 

 

3) saying that “it’s just a computer” that controls the aircraft or the autopilot shows an incredible lack of knowledge in commercial pilot operations. It would be like saying by turning on your home computer it will magically do all your tax returns. 

 

4) for the guy talking about the 1989 pilot dispute in Australia - it cost at least two airlines (TAA and Ansett), tens of thousands of jobs, extreme distress amongst not just pilots but all staff not to mention billions in the economy. To this day the effects of bob hawke and his determination and illegal activity (to get airforce pilots to crew passenger flightsto screw the unions) - is still being felt. I know you won’t, but you can read all about it here: http://www.vision.net.au/~apaterson/aviation/pd89_document.htm

 

as for “no troubles replacing them” you must be joking. There is a world wide pilot shortage - especially in Australia where pilots can get better pay and conditions working for China southern, JAL or even emirates and Qatar. 

 

5) as can be seen in many posts here, the respect once given to pilots has slowly been eroded by a lack of knowledge that “these things fly themselves” which is odd considering autopilots have been around in one form or another since 1912. Computers (flight management systems) have replaced two crew members - a navigator and a flight engineer.  But the role of the pilot has remained unchanged. It’s just the information is being presented in a different format.

 

 

Unless you’re French, getting to the point of going on strike is not made lightly. No one wants to damage the revenue of the company they work for. Please read: https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/sep/09/strike-british-airways-pilots-pay-pension-cuts-airline

Once the TOGA button is clicked computers take over the throttle so all the pilot has to do is rotate and follow the cross hairs. Depending on company policy he may be required to hit the AP ASAP and disengage on finals so yeah a monkey could do it up to that point except landing can be tricky but the real pilot value comes in when things go wrong.  Many great stories, Think Captain sully pulling off a perfect crash landing in the hudson

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53 minutes ago, madmen said:

Once the TOGA button is clicked computers take over the throttle so all the pilot has to do is rotate and follow the cross hairs. Depending on company policy he may be required to hit the AP ASAP and disengage on finals so yeah a monkey could do it up to that point except landing can be tricky but the real pilot value comes in when things go wrong.  Many great stories, Think Captain sully pulling off a perfect crash landing in the hudson

I like a lot of your posts on other topics, but I feel you are getting a lot of information from wrong sources here. Sorry for my lengthy post.

 

so all the pilot has to do is rotate and follow the cross hairs”. While true, it’s not as straight forward as that.

Even after the TOGA switches are pushed, the aircraft can not take into consideration the conditions. Wind, rain, snow, rwy contamination, other aircraft. Engine failures on the ground or in the air. Windshear. Or any number of other things that are not necessarily emergencies - but if not dealt with correctly could certainly turn into one. So while you may have seen a video of a normal take off being performed and it looks so easy, there is a significant amount of things going through the pilots minds. Actions before V1, actions after V1. Under what conditions will I abort or continue. Under each scenario - what will my actions be if I have to evacuate - where will I evacuate? Will it be on the rwy or will I try and taxi off so the rwy is still usable? If it’s a high speed abort - what about the brakes catching on fire and the wheels plugs melting? what if there’s a tyre blow out versus a fire warning? Have I mentioned that we haven’t even gone through 80 kts yet? 

 

Once the autopilot is engaged, you still have to control the computer. It doesn’t just do everything. Negotiating with atc about climbing / descending, avoiding other aircraft or poor weather. If something goes wrong are you at a safe altitude for speed control with an engine failure or will have to descend? What are the closest airfields and are they suitable to make an emergency landing at? Is your destination weather ok? If it’s not what are your options? Do you have enough fuel to do what you want to do? If not, what are your new options? Continual fuel checks to make sure the aircraft isn’t leaking fuel. Coordinating with other aircraft about turbulence reports, diverting to avoid volcanic eruptions (a lot more frequent than you might think). If you depressurise - are you too heavy to clear the mountains / high terrain? Do you know where the high terrain is? Will you need to dump fuel in order to clear terrain it if an engine fails? Can you make it back on one engine or can you continue to a more suitable airfield? If you get a cargo fire that you can’t contain - are you going to ditch? Sick pax - can you divert to save their lives? China just decides to close their airspace as you are approaching their fir - what are you going to do? Where will you go? Being constantly up to date on ever changing procedures and rules. And now add to the mix fighting with management over ever decreasing conditions and the public perception that a monkey can do it. I’ve only listed some things off the top of my head. So I’d like to meet the strategically shaved monkey that can do any of that and as it stands there is no commercial airliner that can automatically do any of that.

 

The real pilot value is being continually so on top of things that the emergencies don’t surprise the pilots leading to a hull loss or loss of life. Sully didn’t just fluke that - he had run through that exact scenario at the airport and that runway and planned for it by himself. Years of training and preparation. And pilots - the good ones, will run those types of scenarios for every runway and every airport they go in and out of so that the worst thing a pax has to worry about is how long it will take you to get through immigration.  

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9 minutes ago, ncc1701d said:

I like a lot of your posts on other topics, but I feel you are getting a lot of information from wrong sources here. Sorry for my lengthy post.

 

so all the pilot has to do is rotate and follow the cross hairs”. While true, it’s not as straight forward as that.

Even after the TOGA switches are pushed, the aircraft can not take into consideration the conditions. Wind, rain, snow, rwy contamination, other aircraft. Engine failures on the ground or in the air. Windshear. Or any number of other things that are not necessarily emergencies - but if not dealt with correctly could certainly turn into one. So while you may have seen a video of a normal take off being performed and it looks so easy, there is a significant amount of things going through the pilots minds. Actions before V1, actions after V1. Under what conditions will I abort or continue. Under each scenario - what will my actions be if I have to evacuate - where will I evacuate? Will it be on the rwy or will I try and taxi off so the rwy is still usable? If it’s a high speed abort - what about the brakes catching on fire and the wheels plugs melting? what if there’s a tyre blow out versus a fire warning? Have I mentioned that we haven’t even gone through 80 kts yet? 

 

Once the autopilot is engaged, you still have to control the computer. It doesn’t just do everything. Negotiating with atc about climbing / descending, avoiding other aircraft or poor weather. If something goes wrong are you at a safe altitude for speed control with an engine failure or will have to descend? What are the closest airfields and are they suitable to make an emergency landing at? Is your destination weather ok? If it’s not what are your options? Do you have enough fuel to do what you want to do? If not, what are your new options? Continual fuel checks to make sure the aircraft isn’t leaking fuel. Coordinating with other aircraft about turbulence reports, diverting to avoid volcanic eruptions (a lot more frequent than you might think). If you depressurise - are you too heavy to clear the mountains / high terrain? Do you know where the high terrain is? Will you need to dump fuel in order to clear terrain it if an engine fails? Can you make it back on one engine or can you continue to a more suitable airfield? If you get a cargo fire that you can’t contain - are you going to ditch? Sick pax - can you divert to save their lives? China just decides to close their airspace as you are approaching their fir - what are you going to do? Where will you go? Being constantly up to date on ever changing procedures and rules. And now add to the mix fighting with management over ever decreasing conditions and the public perception that a monkey can do it. I’ve only listed some things off the top of my head. So I’d like to meet the strategically shaved monkey that can do any of that and as it stands there is no commercial airliner that can automatically do any of that.

 

The real pilot value is being continually so on top of things that the emergencies don’t happen in the first place. Sully didn’t just fluke that - he had run through that exact scenario at the airport and that runway and planned for it by himself. Years of training and preparation. And pilots - the good ones, will run those types of scenarios for every runway and every airport they go in and out of so that the worst thing a pax has to worry about is how long it will take you to get through immigration.  

a thoughtful, informative post and correct. 

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On 9/10/2019 at 9:15 PM, emptypockets said:

Wrong. If you can fly a simulator you can fly a new generation aircraft. That's how 95% of all current pilots learn or older pilots get upgraded. The fantasy of an aircraft pilot being something special finished two decades ago.

That's interesting can you fly "a simulator" ? The online course I did for a new type last year took about 2 weeks studying several hours a day. This is completed before any procedures trainer/ SIM sessions, where they give you 30 minutes for preflight preparation. How many sessions do you think one will need until one does not require every minute of those 30 to not get behind?  Then push back, where in real life it takes the full attention of the flight and ground crew to avoid a hugely expensive even fatal ground accident. Now taxi out and cross some active runways. Huge potential for disaster. We have not even got to the fantasy point where "the plane flies itself it is all automated isn't it?" Hear it all the time usually by people making a steering wheel motion with the arms. Explaining  aircraft automation with people is difficult as the subject requires specialized terminology and knowledge of flight operations to be easily discussed. 

 

 

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