TM30: unclear what to do if mother stays in rented house

[Chris747]

I have a quick TM30 question. I rent a detached house from a Thai landlord. Rental contract is in my name. Now my mother visits and stays 2 weeks at our house. She stays during the whole time she's in Thailand in our house.

 

Who is responsible for the TM30? Landlord or myself?

 

thanks, Chris

[jumbo]

Is she does not need services from immigration than I would not worry about any registration from anyone

[richard_smith237]

My take on all this TM30 issue: 

 

If you have dealings with Chaengwattana Immigration or another Immigration office, i.e. for an extension of stay etc then do a TM30.

 

If your exposure to Immigration is only ever going to be via a border, i.e. flying in and out of Thailand via an Airport or travelling via a land boarder crossing then TM30 compliance is not checked. 

 

I’m in and out of Thailand frequently (monthly), I’ve never filled out the TM30. It’s never been asked for at an airport. 

Edited September 11, 2019 by richard_smith237

[elviajero]

1 hour ago, Chris747 said:

Who is responsible for the TM30? Landlord or myself?

It could be both. The landlord definitely, you maybe.

 

If a report isn’t made — and they consider you as the Possessor of the property (as a tenant) — they could fine you for not reporting.

[Dominion]

Just say you went camping if anyone asks. Easy.

[bbi1]

1 hour ago, Dominion said:

Just say you went camping if anyone asks. Easy.

Or say you've been sleeping homeless on the streets or on the beach. 

[lamyai3]

13 hours ago, elviajero said:

It could be both. The landlord definitely, you maybe.

 

If a report isn’t made — and they consider you as the Possessor of the property (as a tenant) — they could fine you for not reporting.

How would they do so - is there a system in place that is used to actively chase down the house owner / possessor for failing to submit a TM30 report, or is this just a theoretical risk?

 

The only punitive actions I've heard of regarding the TM30s have been those targetted at foreigners in need of immigration services, aside from the occasional condo raid. 

[WorriedNoodle]

15 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

If you have dealings with Chaengwattana Immigration or another Immigration office, i.e. for an extension of stay etc then do a TM30.

I went on Monday to CW to do an annual retirement extension and the TM30 was never mentioned - I had proof with me, but kept it to myself. I noticed the TM30 queue mostly empty as well.

[AgMech Cowboy]

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

If a report isn’t made — and they consider you as the Possessor of the property (as a tenant) — they could fine you for not reporting.

And if during her 2 week stay she never goes to immigration, who is going to fine you/him/her?

[Jaxxper]

17 hours ago, elviajero said:

It could be both. The landlord definitely, you maybe.

 

If a report isn’t made — and they consider you as the Possessor of the property (as a tenant) — they could fine you for not reporting.

In theory, but if no interface with the immigration office in the two weeks I wouldn’t bother registering.

[AAArdvark]

1 hour ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

And if during her 2 week stay she never goes to immigration, who is going to fine you/him/her?

The only possibility would be if the Thai Immigration super computer actually tied the TM-6 to TM-30s. Once the submarine is paid off they may then move on to the super computer (and people who know how to program it).

[Chazar]

16 hours ago, Dominion said:

Just say you went camping if anyone asks. Easy.

Bury her under the floorboards/concrete, easier.

[robertson468]

16 hours ago, Dominion said:

Just say you went camping if anyone asks. Easy.

Or within 24 hours went sailing around Thailand!

[Chazar]

4 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

I went on Monday to CW to do an annual retirement extension and the TM30 was never mentioned - I had proof with me, but kept it to myself. I noticed the TM30 queue mostly empty as well.

Read that fines were "suspended" maybe they are starting to turn a blind eye?

[Peter Denis]

4 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

I went on Monday to CW to do an annual retirement extension and the TM30 was never mentioned - I had proof with me, but kept it to myself. I noticed the TM30 queue mostly empty as well.

I understood from other TVF posts that when you do an annual retirement extension, the IO has to follow a checklist which includes checking whether a current TM30 has been filed.  And if that's the case they will not ask you about it.  

[phetchy]

21 hours ago, richard_smith237 said:

 

If your exposure to Immigration is only ever going to be via a border, i.e. flying in and out of Thailand via an Airport or travelling via a land boarder crossing then TM30 compliance is not checked. 

 

I’m in and out of Thailand frequently (monthly), I’ve never filled out the TM30. It’s never been asked for at an airport. 

But is acquiring a multi re-entry permit for in and out trips not 'exposure to immigration'?  

[elviajero]

5 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

How would they do so - is there a system in place that is used to actively chase down the house owner / possessor for failing to submit a TM30 report, or is this just a theoretical risk?

The only way they can know a TM.30 hasn’t been made is when the foreigner deals with immigration or they make a visit to a hotel, private property etc.

 

[elviajero]

2 hours ago, AgMech Cowboy said:

And if during her 2 week stay she never goes to immigration, who is going to fine you/him/her?

No one, unless immigration make a visit to the property, which is possible but unlikely.

[phetchy]

7 minutes ago, elviajero said:

The only way they can know a TM.30 hasn’t been made is when the foreigner deals with immigration .......

 

Eg. 90 days, re-entry - even a residency certificate for car or motorbike purchase?  Unlikely I know, but as usual it largely depends on the side of the bed the IO got out of this morning.

Edited September 12, 2019 by phetchy
emphasis

[chilly07]

You as Possessor but as she will have a TM6 with your address for 2 weeks it is highly unlikely TI will ever check but they could in theory pick it up when you do your extension

[elviajero]

17 minutes ago, phetchy said:

But is acquiring a multi re-entry permit for in and out trips not 'exposure to immigration'?  

Only if you acquire the permit from a local immigration office who might check that a TM.30 has been filed. They won’t check at the airport.

[elviajero]

12 minutes ago, phetchy said:

Eg. 90 days, re-entry - even a residency certificate for car or motorbike purchase?  Unlikely I know, but as usual it largely depends on the side of the bed the IO got out of this morning.

Yes it can potentially be checked during any interaction with immigration services.

[Peter Denis]

19 minutes ago, chilly07 said:

You as Possessor but as she will have a TM6 with your address for 2 weeks it is highly unlikely TI will ever check but they could in theory pick it up when you do your extension

Is your mother going immediately after arrival in Thailand to your house?  If she intends to stay 1 night in a Hotel before going to your place, she can put the name of the Hotel on the TM6 arrival form. As mentioned by other posters, after that Immigration  will never know that she stayed at your place unless you report it yourself or your place is raided by Immigration (which is extremely unlikely). 

[phetchy]

A UK neighbour of mine has recently returned from a 6 month visit to the UK.  He has a retirement extension until November and (conveniently) his 90 day reporting is also now due at around the same time, so he able do his 90 days and retirement renewal on the same day and apply for a new multi re-entry when he picks his passport up the next day. 

 

As he left Thailand before all the new banking regs came in and the TM30 was extant but not enforced, he was blissfully unaware of the possible pitfalls awaiting him here on his return.  He was kept up to date from friends here but chose to adopt the "it'll never happen" attitude.  Needless to say, despite opinions to the contrary, he went from the airport to his company owned house in Pattaya and imagines that come November with no TM30, all will be fine when he goes to Soi 5 Jomtien.

 

I know that his bank deposits are not enough to do a legit retirement extension and he won't have a TM30 when it comes to his 90 days and re-entry permit.  He intends to do all the formalities himself.  Not a position I'd like to be in.  Bit of luck and maybe the current administration will have realised the harm these new regs are doing and we'll be back to normal.  Cup of tea anyone?   

[jimn]

Dont be so paronoid Chris. Why bother? Unless she is going to immigration for some reason, who on earth will know she is staying with you. Get real and stop over thinking things.

[Peter Denis]

2 hours ago, phetchy said:

A UK neighbour of mine has recently returned from a 6 month visit to the UK.  He has a retirement extension until November and (conveniently) his 90 day reporting is also now due at around the same time, so he able do his 90 days and retirement renewal on the same day and apply for a new multi re-entry when he picks his passport up the next day. 

 

As he left Thailand before all the new banking regs came in and the TM30 was extant but not enforced, he was blissfully unaware of the possible pitfalls awaiting him here on his return.  He was kept up to date from friends here but chose to adopt the "it'll never happen" attitude.  Needless to say, despite opinions to the contrary, he went from the airport to his company owned house in Pattaya and imagines that come November with no TM30, all will be fine when he goes to Soi 5 Jomtien.

 

I know that his bank deposits are not enough to do a legit retirement extension and he won't have a TM30 when it comes to his 90 days and re-entry permit.  He intends to do all the formalities himself.  Not a position I'd like to be in.  Bit of luck and maybe the current administration will have realised the harm these new regs are doing and we'll be back to normal.  Cup of tea anyone?   

If his retirement extension is only due in November he has still plenty of time to be in compliance with TM30.  He only needs to ensure that a TM30 has been filed from the location where he is residing, prior to visiting his provincial IO.

But that's just a minor thing, compared to him not meeting the financial requirements for an extension of stay (I presume you are refering to the 800K THB on a thai bank-account, 2 months prior to the extension of stay).

Hope he can still fix that one before his appointment at IO is due,

Edited September 12, 2019 by Peter Denis

[Max69xl]

On 9/11/2019 at 2:50 PM, richard_smith237 said:

My take on all this TM30 issue: 

 

If you have dealings with Chaengwattana Immigration or another Immigration office, i.e. for an extension of stay etc then do a TM30.

 

If your exposure to Immigration is only ever going to be via a border, i.e. flying in and out of Thailand via an Airport or travelling via a land boarder crossing then TM30 compliance is not checked. 

 

I’m in and out of Thailand frequently (monthly), I’ve never filled out the TM30. It’s never been asked for at an airport. 

Immigration never asks for TM30 reports at the airport. If you never ever visits any Immigration office,then don't worry about it. 

[Max69xl]

14 hours ago, WorriedNoodle said:

I went on Monday to CW to do an annual retirement extension and the TM30 was never mentioned - I had proof with me, but kept it to myself. I noticed the TM30 queue mostly empty as well.

If you have done the TM30 report, you would have the Receipt of Notification or a copy of it stapled inside your passport. What kind of "proof" do you have? 

[Max69xl]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

If his retirement extension is only due in November he has still plenty of time to be in compliance with TM30.  He only needs to ensure that a TM30 has been filed from the location where he is residing, prior to visiting his provincial IO.

But that's just a minor thing, compared to him not meeting the financial requirements for an extension of stay (I presume you are refering to the 800K THB on a thai bank-account, 2 months prior to the extension of stay).

Hope he can still fix that one before his appointment at IO is due,

"He only needs to ensure that a TM30 has been filed from the location where he is residing, prior to visiting his provincial IO."

Several offices are quite tough about doing the TM30 report within the timeframe after being reported somewhere. Some offices doesn't ask for the TM30 to be done when applying for the 1 year extension, and doesn't even look for the Receipt of Notification stapled inside the passport. 

[tingtongfarang]

Another confusion i see on the horizon are a couple of retirees i know of who are completely oblivious to this tm30 malarkey, 

One friend infact has 3 phones none of which are smart, Similar to old nokia phones, he has one for each country, thailand, uk and dubai,

The appropriate phone will be taken out the drawer before traveling, they have nothing to do with or any interest in the internet of things,

How are they supposed to know about this tm30?

Edited September 12, 2019 by tingtongfarang