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Conno

Experiences with AML/KYC why the people need Cryptos to succeed.

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A few thoughts on Anti Money Laundering / Know Your Customer AML/KYC rules.....I'd be interested to hear others take/experiences on this.

 

Firstly we all know that the increase in the level of AML/KYC hoops that the ordinary law abiding citizen has to jump through these days has gone up exponentially. 

 

Apart from it being a complete pain in the butt, what annoys me the most is how the powers that be [TPTB] try to sell AML/KYC i.e. It is a requirement we should all be somehow grateful for. Give up your privacy for your own protection and so on. 

 

Please note before I continue, I am neither a drug dealer, a terrorist, a gun runner or human trafficker, so why am I experiencing so many problems?

 

IMO it has nothing to do with protecting you and the system from rogue criminal elements, drug dealers, gun runners, terrorists etc, that's just Orwellian double speak. But everything to do with placing a huge hobnailed boot on the neck of every innocent man on the street. I suppose not much has changed from the Lord of the Realm/Peon slave days......just digitized. In other words AML/KYC is a system to guarantee the tax cows don't escape their forced milking on the government controlled tax farms. The drug dealers, terrorists, criminal elements narrative is an attempt at a magicians slight of hand to fool the mind and not a very convincing one at that. 

 

I have experienced numerous problems in the recent past including issues related to retiring to Thailand but still having financial links to the UK.

 

Most financial institutions under AML/KYC rules require you to now declare your residency. Then you need to back that up with things such as a local telephone number or a copy of a utility bill linked to your residency address. So what do you do if you don't have a home country address/telephone, are no longer resident there but wish to open some financial related GBP/Euro/crypto account? In other words it is now almost impossible to do this in your home country, unless you wish to be a little bit frugal with the truth and risk being found out. It's not that you wish to break the rules but rather you are compelled to do so if you don't wish to be denied a service which should be rightfully available. 

 

Another issue that has been turned upside down recently by using insidious tiptoe creep is the tenet that you are innocent until proven guilty. Anyone else notice that this no longer applies? You are now guilty by assumption and the onus is on YOU to prove your innocence, I'll give you an example.  

 

In the not too distant past my Father passed away leaving me his entire estate. I decide to add a portion of my inheritance to a brokerage account I had actively used and held for many years. I was stunned to log in a few days after wiring the funds to find I had been completely locked out. Thinking this was some kind of glitch I called the customer support help desk to be told that yes indeed I had been locked out of my trading account. I was then advised that the amount that I had transferred into the account had raised suspicion and under recently upgraded AML rules, additional proof of source documentation needed to be provided to activate my account once again!!!!!! Even if I wanted them to return the funds they would be forced by law to retain the currency received until I proved its legitimacy. Utterly unbelievable.

 

Understand the implications here....when you transfer currency to a third party institution to safe guard/invest on your behalf this currency in reality is no longer yours. You may be inclined to say to friends and family "Oh I have XYZ £$ in the bank. Nope, you have zero $£ in the bank is the truth.

 

Eventually I had to get a Lawyer to notarise a probate statement of account related to my fathers estate then submit it to the brokerage firm in question. I also had similar problems with the lump sum elements of my retirement plans. So in conclusion if you wish to operate any form of money market account these days you need to completely surrender any notion of financial privacy......

 

The Crypto White Knight arrives.

 

While all the above is difficult enough when related to the existing fiat money system, TPTB are now attempting to cast that very same net over the emerging crypto scene. I've only recently become interested in Bitcoin, blockchain and everything crypto and I'm pretty annoyed with myself for not understanding what this was all about years ago. Sure I had heard all the MSM stories of Bitcoin being used for only illegal purposes for years, Silk Road etc. In fact that should have caused a light bulb moment to go off in my head but it never did 😡. Unfortunately I was always too busy doing something else and never looked into it to the degree that it deserved. 

 

Now that I have I'm pretty excited. I have no idea if Bitcoin the currency is going to reach mass adoption but I'm hoping above hope that it eventually will. [However, blockchain the invention looks like it is here to stay] Bitcoin probably needs a few upgrades before mass adoption can really take off eg faster, more privacy/anonymity etc The developers are there and the issues are known so I feel it is the best chance we have presently of removing that boot from our financial necks. 

 

So to elaborate a little, the main problem I encountered when trying to buy my first BTC was the on-ramp/off-ramp fiat to BTC regulations combined with the AML/KYC issues highlighted previously.  These have proven to be as difficult to comply with and as equally privacy busting as anything found in the conventional fiat world. In my opinion, fiat fractional reserve currencies that we are all so used to and familiar with are in serious trouble. TPTB know this and globally a very small percentage of the people know this also. It is going to collapse, just as history tells us how previous versions of the same have ALWAYS done so. Just ask a Zimbabwean, a Venezuelan, a Argentinian and to a degree a Cypriot or a Greek. What is happening and has happened to them is going to happen to everyone in the end, Euro, Sterling, Dollar, Yen and all the others too.

 

I feel TPTB are scared, they are scared because the paradigm which has kept the few in power and riches through both boom and bust for decades is falling apart. If it were falling apart in a similar fashion as it has on numerous occasions in the past then the elite would just sit back, puff on their cigars and continue laughing among themselves. This time around I'm convinced they are worried because Bitcoin and the likes enables every single individual to not only retain control of their own money separate from a fiat bust.......but also be their OWN BANK. They know it and will do everything in their power to keep the people ignorant of the fact.

 

Despite all the negative views, it's a tulip bubble, it's a ponzi scheme, It's a scam, crpto's days are numbered, TPTB will ban it, go ahead Bitcoin doesn't care. I beg to differ.

 

Still early days and massively risky I agree, but considering what this COULD TURN INTO in my opinion it's worth the risk and worth the effort supporting it.

 

Edited by Conno
spelling correction
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I was trading bitcoins from U.K. around two years ago,,was all fine until someone bought coins from me with stolen card  details,,,,my bank instantly blocked my account and the fraud squad was on the phone to me.

had to go up to bank with all details of the transaction ie conversation between me and buyer.

the bank didn’t reclaim an of the money back from me,and was actually fine with me trading coins but stressed you cannot have people you don’t know transferring money into your account,it was from that day on I found out about kyc,,,could still trade coins but had to ask every buyer for a photo of the card being used and a photo off the passport.all that trading was being done on local bitcoins between person to person ,prefer to just use a platform now like coin base pro.

 

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Hmmm interesting. So basically your bank was telling you that you shouldn't accept digital fiat from anyone you don't know unless you have done your own KYC on a personal level. To me your example says more about the flaws in the current fiat payment system than it does about the requirements for ever greater KYC. Criminals will attempt to do their criminal thing no matter what the rules and regulations. 


So maybe Bitcoin is showing us a better solution once again. As far as I am aware the blockchain has never been compromised and Bitcoin has never been hacked. Considering it is viewed as one giant honeypot just sitting there for the taking, I'd say after 10 years that's pretty good going so far. Sure the exchanges have been hacked, online hot wallets have been too, but never the digital currency or the decentralised distributed ledger itself. Maybe that might change someday in the future, who knows.

 

To me it all comes down to trust, clearly it is dangerous to put 100% trust in other people, as a generalisation people can't be trusted. It has also been shown time and time again that you also can't place 100% trust in third party intermediaries too. Maybe it's about time we gave cryptography and pure math a chance. Maybe it's about time we grew up and started looking after our own risks. As I read somewhere else recently, with greater freedom comes greater responsibility. Bring it on I say.

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Back to bit coins,,I used to have a lot of faith in them have known about them for 10 years thought yes they are gonna get massively adopted.....

my thoughts have completely changed now,they been around to long and are not really moving in the direction that they were originally intended for, I just see them as an asset to trade, I have probably made a bout £5000 in 2 years from around a £13,000 investment.

i wouldn’t get to carried away with them ,I had to sit on them (hold them) for a good 12 months when they took a massive dip.

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I'd be interested to hear others take/experiences on this.

I agree that AML/KYC is exclusively about protecting the governments' essential, coercive revenue stream through limiting tax evasion;

once you've lived in this world long enough, it's clear that their talk of "protecting" the public is pure, self-serving rubbish in ALL cases and at ALL times in history...

 

So, once LocalBitcoins went Orwellian with KYC/AML also, I switched completely to decentralized and non-custodial - primarily Bisq.

 

There's no THB liquidity there yet, because there's no demand yet until we bring it, but I don't trade THB much.

There is enough liquidity on the Euro and GBP book for my needs.

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Taninthai - Yea cool you could be correct. I openly admit I'm very new and only just learning the ropes, so it's possible much of my enthusiasm is due to the novelty factor. If you have been following the scene since its inception then I bow to your greater knowledge.  Trading is tough and not as easy as people claim. I have a lot of experience in FX trading and for years I was going 2 steps forward then 2 steps back. Never had a margin call though or blown an account which is something at least 😉.  Separate from trading, timing your buys is crucial......if you intend to hodl then averaging in is the only way to go. An approach that makes sense whether you are talking stocks, precious metal or crypto. Trade by all means but only with your fun money. 

 

I also agree with you that Satoshi's original vision was for Bitcoin to be a currency to be used for transactions, to spend in other words. Not a bar of Gold to lock away and save for a rainy day or an asset just for trading. Atm it is mostly being hodled [I'm guilty as charged] and traded so this needs to change for sure. I don't agree that 10 years is too long though, I think 10 years is a rather short time-frame to expect mass adoption considering how disruptive the technology is and how entrenched its opposition. So don't be doing a Pizza for 10,000 BTC 2019 equivalent mistake and dismiss the future potential. Maybe it needs another 10 years to fully mature. [Which would still be pretty quick if you ask me] 

 

I also understand if you have been watching Bitcoin for 10 years and your personal expectations have been let down you might be guilty of becoming a little bored with it all, just hear me out on this. Because this is still very new and exciting to me, I'm spending at least 3 or 4 hours a day devouring all the info I can find about this [both new and old] News stories, books, interviews, YT influences etc. What strikes me is that right now the big institutions are slowly getting on board....the smart money in other words. This wouldn't be happening if crypto had already had its day. Did you know that Bakkt is launching on the 23rd of Sept. Also for the past couple of months numerous different governments around the world have been announcing their own plans related to digital currencies. Centralised controlled versions that is, but to the uneducated they sound similar to BTC.  This wouldn't be happening if Bitcoin was going absolutely nowhere. As they say " Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery".

 

You must have heard of Andreas M Antonopoulos? Have you read his work "The Internet of Money volume 1 & 2"? His books are open source and available for free in PDF format.....just google them if you want to take a look. 

 

Don't give up just when things could be really starting to move.

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I had doubled my money at one stage when they hit top price but I was a bit tied up with other stuff and didn’t sell also got a bit carried away and thought they were going all the way up,up,up.

i follow them everyday made £ 400 with a purchase off .5 coin over about 2 weeks that was about 10 days ago,,,bought .3    2 days ago and just wait till they showing me profit and will sell again.

there is no doubt that the markets are controlled by what they call whales ,they can drop loads onto the market at any time and control price movements ,it is a very few people that are holding the majority of huge amounts of coin.

Edited by taninthai

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1*AXM_reUAHCDMoGZUlvYtkA.png

Address holders as of this month.

Edited by Conno

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Andreas Antonopoulos on AML/KYC.

Brilliant brilliant brilliant, he's such a master at getting the message across. He explains the issues way better than I ever could.

A Swiss Bank for Everyone's Pocket.

Presentation Zurich Switzerland dated 23rd June 2019, just uploaded today.

 

In this talk, Andreas examines the morality of technology and the politics of fear, including former President Barack Obama's infamous statement that broad adoption of cryptography and cryptocurrencies would be like having "a Swiss bank account in your pocket." He argues that the same fear mongering is being used to target journalists and whistleblowers who use these same tools to expose war crimes.

 

 

 

Edited by Conno
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You are on the right way. It's refreshing to see an interesting thread on this forum.

Edited by Tayaout
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Tayaout - Thx man. Don't know if it's just me but this talk almost brought me to tears at the close. The world is so F'd up and as AA states we are brainwashed into feeling powerless, when the truth is the power is all ours. 

 

Loved his line where he corrects Obama's statement that the danger with crypto is everyone would have the equivalent of a Swiss bank account in their pocket.

 

No, the danger with crypto is everyone would have the equivalent of a Swiss Bank in their pocket.....and you are the CEO.....lol Love It.

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Did not listen to this talk yet but I have been following Andreas since his beginning in the Bitcoin space. 

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Cool....as and when.

 

Here's another that has just been uploaded which I'm sure will push your buttons too. Self made multi millionaire Wall Street Trader who started out in the UK as an orphan in foster care with $150 in his pocket and the clothes he was standing up in.  His views on BTC and how this is going to change everything.  Once again when someone as smart as this guys talks it's advisable to listen........therefore take it as water off a ducks back when others bad mouth crypto. 

 

I get what he means when he says most have no frame of reference to compare this technology against. People in general dismiss it because humankind has never had such an invention before..........EVER.  Hey people can take it on-board or dismiss it right, it's a free world LOL. Enjoy.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Conno

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I was and still is dismissed all the time. As a programmer, I understood the importance of Bitcoin when I saw it. Most funny thing in my mind is I did not buy nor mine Bitcoin as an investment in the beginning. However as soon it reached $1000, I received a lot of call from those who called me crazy. 

 

https://londonreal.tv/e/andreas-antonopoulos/

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Oh dude a three hour special with Andreas......missed that one thanks.

 

Last night I was listening to one of my fav Crypto YouTube Channels The Modern Investor [TMI]. Oh man I almost died with laughter as it was one of the funniest slip ups I've ever heard. I think he's developing Tourette's syndrome lmfao.

 

Need for a bit of context though. TMI is usually very polite, very respectful, never swears and you never see his face. I always imagine him to be a bit of an eccentric Priest who's into crypto lol. When he gets particularly excited with some news story he often starts to talk too fast and has a habit of blending two words together to make an unintended third word.  Normally these slip ups are innocent but still make you chuckle. Yesterdays were priceless classics though. Anyway chances are you don't follow him so might not be as funny to you, but after listening to him for months I almost had a 🤣 seizure as it was so out of character. It was the silence afterwards and the profuse apologies that made it worse ha ha ha.

 

Cock-up is around the 34:00 mark but worth starting a bit ahead of that point just to get familiar with his normal style. After saying all that, it's also a good channel for latest crypto daily news 🙂

 

 

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