Doing business In Thailand an absolute nightmare

[swissie]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Tried, same result. Got my Thai staff to do all the talking, some did not  know i existed , same result

To open (business)-doors in Thailand one needs a Thai as a "frontman". To approach them with verbal or written English is pointless.

- You mentioned that your Thai-Staff coulden't produce any results. As I gather from previous posts, you run a Hotel/Guesthouse. Possibly your Thai-Staff is not well versed in the "Business-Lingo". As a "trail-blazer", a Thai Legal Eagle (fluent in the Thai/English Business-Lingo) may be the only way for you to go.
Instead of constantly paying "consulting-fees", offer him a percentage of future revenues. If he thinks that the project will fly, he will likely come "aboard". You will have a Thai-Business Partner. For better or for worse.

[timendres]

3 minutes ago, Skallywag said:

You don't come to thailand for work or business, you come for women and retirement - get a clue dude

 

Chok dee kaap

Well, I came for work, business, and women, not to mention good food, nice weather, and a bit of travel. When retirement comes around, will trade work and business for that. Rest remains the same.

[BestB]

35 minutes ago, swissie said:

To open (business)-doors in Thailand one needs a Thai as a "frontman". To approach them with verbal or written English is pointless.

- You mentioned that your Thai-Staff coulden't produce any results. As I gather from previous posts, you run a Hotel/Guesthouse. Possibly your Thai-Staff is not well versed in the "Business-Lingo". As a "trail-blazer", a Thai Legal Eagle (fluent in the Thai/English Business-Lingo) may be the only way for you to go.
Instead of constantly paying "consulting-fees", offer him a percentage of future revenues. If he thinks that the project will fly, he will likely come "aboard". You will have a Thai-Business Partner. For better or for worse.

Has crossed my mind if I was the only one with this kind of problems but as I mentioned have come across a few people already who just gave up and went sourcing elsewhere .

 

i have not given up yet but have realised order sizes may scare some of them and instead of saying so, to save the face they just go Mia.

 

and with that we are back to subject of Thai exports . How do thai companies export when buyers are not thai eagles? They claim exports are down because of baht , but I would say because of stupidity which many encounter.

 

many Thai products are superior quality and people do not mind paying premium for it but when you ignored , or always a no for simple things buyers just go elsewhere . 

[Briggsy]

In order to get things moving, you need to give a personal kickback to the person you are dealing with in the sales dept. In order for the person in the sales dept. to trust you sufficiently to arrange a backhander, they need to know you.

 

Therefore the solution to do business with Thais is to spend an inordinate amount of time developing a relationship then arrange backhanders.

[ThomasThBKK]

Did you try PTN group for shrimps/seafood?

 

But you don't phone them, you drive there and go there in person. 

The sales department of thai companies are useless af usually, you need to walk in there and talk with them in person.

 

it's the exact opposite to vietnam/china, they will happily take your money and just don't do anything afterwards.

[55Jay]

I'm just average joe, but was trying to cut the middle man out by introducing a local farang backed business in my area to a BKK distributor for a drink product.  No joy. 

 

They had a local distributor already in my city, which I didn't know, and the BKK source gave us the contact details.  OK, fair enough, and I did go and see them, which cut my personal retail price down 35 Baht/unit and for quantity above 12, -40 Baht/unit.  Which is great.  No complaints.

 

But I did muse about the distributor rejecting inquires for new sources on a totally opposite side of the city, which their existing small time distro doesn't even deliver to; but I suppose they would with some kind of additional fee (fair enough).  But, that was the end of that and seemed a bit short-sighted and unimaginative on the part of the BKK distributor (Thai) and the local distributor (Thai).

[swissie]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

Has crossed my mind if I was the only one with this kind of problems but as I mentioned have come across a few people already who just gave up and went sourcing elsewhere .

 

i have not given up yet but have realised order sizes may scare some of them and instead of saying so, to save the face they just go Mia.

 

and with that we are back to subject of Thai exports . How do thai companies export when buyers are not thai eagles? They claim exports are down because of baht , but I would say because of stupidity which many encounter.

 

many Thai products are superior quality and people do not mind paying premium for it but when you ignored , or always a no for simple things buyers just go elsewhere . 

BestB:

Most exports are conduced by large companies. Ranging from Car Manufacturers to Rice-Exports. On this scale, Thai "governement-support" comes into play.
Small-scale "Exports" are in it's infancy in Thailand (no administratve apparatus in place as far as manpower is concerned) as a starter. And many more obstacles.
By the time small-scale exports become "flawless", you may have run out of money and patience and enthusiasm.
After many years in Thailand, can you rely on some "Thai-Family-Support", in a situation like this? Just curious.

[jumbo]

Seem the companies the OP approached are, give the Thai labels, not exporters. 

Then most probably they do not even have the export licence for their product...

So it was a no go from the beginning

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, jumbo said:

Seem the companies the OP approached are, give the Thai labels, not exporters. 

Then most probably they do not even have the export licence for their product...

So it was a no go from the beginning

They do not need to have export license as I offered to buy internally and I would export it. Labels cost less than a few baht to make if one is willing. Also as an example I doubt Oleen does not have export license ????

[mercman24]

herbal Viagra, 300, baht,? same price as the REAL stuff, and the REAL stuff (sidagra) 240 baht in Bangkok

[BestB]

7 hours ago, swissie said:

BestB:

Most exports are conduced by large companies. Ranging from Car Manufacturers to Rice-Exports. On this scale, Thai "governement-support" comes into play.
Small-scale "Exports" are in it's infancy in Thailand (no administratve apparatus in place as far as manpower is concerned) as a starter. And many more obstacles.
By the time small-scale exports become "flawless", you may have run out of money and patience and enthusiasm.
After many years in Thailand, can you rely on some "Thai-Family-Support", in a situation like this? Just curious.

I do not have Thai family and do not plan on having one. 

 

Can not comment on administrative obstacles as I still can not get company’s who can quote or confirm products 

 

i will say though, I am yet to deal with the owners , so far it’s sales people who do not appear to be interested in anything .

 

once I reached to the owner, who is a Canadian , who passed it on to sales. Took her 1 month to give a quote

[BestB]

1 minute ago, mercman24 said:

herbal Viagra, 300, baht,? same price as the REAL stuff, and the REAL stuff (sidagra) 240 baht in Bangkok

I do not make the prices, this is what they charge . Have another one which is 500 baht . This is retail price in pharmacies . 

 

The 300 baht one you get 6 pills but the 500 baht one you get 4.

 

And precisely my point, retail is 300 baht but factory quoting 280 for wholesale large order. Makes you wonder why pharmacies are selling at 300 and not more and why they bothering over 20 baht profit 

[BestB]

8 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

Did you try PTN group for shrimps/seafood?

 

But you don't phone them, you drive there and go there in person. 

The sales department of thai companies are useless af usually, you need to walk in there and talk with them in person.

 

it's the exact opposite to vietnam/china, they will happily take your money and just don't do anything afterwards.

This is what I am learning . Phone calls and emails are useless, only having to go and speak .

 

i do not think I have tried PTN group, thanks for the tip, will give them a go.

[BestB]

9 hours ago, Briggsy said:

In order to get things moving, you need to give a personal kickback to the person you are dealing with in the sales dept. In order for the person in the sales dept. to trust you sufficiently to arrange a backhander, they need to know you.

 

Therefore the solution to do business with Thais is to spend an inordinate amount of time developing a relationship then arrange backhanders.

Very possibly you are right but how do you offer a backhander when you do not even know their prices?

 

Do not forget, products I am sourcing are not something new but a very competitive market , so price must be right.

 

funny enough , I do export rawhide dog snacks which I get through an employee of the company , not the head office . 

[wgdanson]

11 hours ago, BestB said:

do tell what is wrong with my attitude?

You want that in public or in a PM?

[Cadbury]

11 hours ago, BestB said:

Problem is i do not live in any of those countries and know very little about any of them or doing business there.

 

It also means i would have to either relocate or make regular trips which i am not prepared to do at the moment.

 

May be Vietnam has changed, but 20 years ago i did some business with Vietnamese and it was more like if close one eye, they will cut off your arm.

 

With Chinese, no personal experience but hearing from others when you are not there to check and control, you are shown one product but you receive substandard 

 

So again, i would have to be there to make sure all orders are correct and at the moment its not an option

Vietnam has the kickback problem not unlike other countries. A few years ago I negotiated a deal between an infant formula milk supplier (very high quality) in Australia and a large Vietnamese company. All went well, the deal was done and contracts signed.

It wasn't long before the little crud who did the ordering dropped off the Australian company orders in favour of lower quality powder from dodgy suppliers simply because the Australian company refused to pay the kickback whereas the others fed him a supply of money. The fact that the babies of Vietnamese mothers didn't get the best quality was too bad.

On the other hand I was selling Vietnamese basa fish to Georgia through an intermediary company and my commission always turned up on time.

[ThaiBunny]

2 minutes ago, Cadbury said:

Vietnam has the kickback problem not unlike other countries. A few years ago I negotiated a deal between an infant formula milk supplier (very high quality) in Australia and a large Vietnamese company. All went well, the deal was done and contracts signed.

It wasn't long before the little crud who did the ordering dropped off the Australian company orders in favour of lower quality powder from dodgy suppliers simply because the Australian company refused to pay the kickback whereas the others fed him a supply of money. The fact that the babies of Vietnamese mothers didn't get the best quality was too bad.

On the other hand I was selling Vietnamese basa fish to Georgia through an intermediary company and my commission always turned up on time.

An acquaintance of mine once attempted to do something (can't remember what) about an education initiative in Isaan. His dealings with the Thai bureaucracy were a nightmare - they weren't interested in education for the poor, just "tea money" for themselves

[robblok]

I wonder how many of you have done real business and understand business.

 

If someone would just call and not come in person for amounts that high I would not trust it without any guarantees. I mean starting producing and stuff cost a lot one would need certain guarantees and you have to be sure. To expect people to jump form just a call is a bit naive. 

 

Visit places, show them you are real and try to find some way to give them some guarantees your for real and can pay these kind of things. These companies need to make an investment before they can serve you. I would not do that based on a call from a foreigner or Thai or whatever.

[BestB]

18 minutes ago, wgdanson said:

You want that in public or in a PM?

Whichever tickles your fancy 

[VocalNeal]

14 hours ago, BestB said:

totally illogical 

Might be logical just not to you. 

 

Also to Thais, talk is cheap. Did you order anything yet?

[BestB]

4 minutes ago, robblok said:

I wonder how many of you have done real business and understand business.

 

If someone would just call and not come in person for amounts that high I would not trust it without any guarantees. I mean starting producing and stuff cost a lot one would need certain guarantees and you have to be sure. To expect people to jump form just a call is a bit naive. 

 

Visit places, show them you are real and try to find some way to give them some guarantees your for real and can pay these kind of things. These companies need to make an investment before they can serve you. I would not do that based on a call from a foreigner or Thai or whatever.

I believe you have not done any business but an accountant , so to explain it to you, no one ordering new line over the phone but calling to get quotes for existing product.

 

This is not 1 office block to go visit, some companies are in the south , some in the north , some in bkk.

 

just going in in person to find out if they can supply container worth on monthly basis time consuming waste of money.

 

if company can provide products at accepted price , then deals are made in person. 

[BestB]

1 minute ago, VocalNeal said:

Might be logical just not to you. 

 

Also to Thais, talk is cheap. Did you order anything yet?

How do you propose I order when i do not know the price or if can handle the order ?

 

lets hear your logical explanation 

[Cadbury]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

I wonder how many of you have done real business and understand business.

 

If someone would just call and not come in person for amounts that high I would not trust it without any guarantees. I mean starting producing and stuff cost a lot one would need certain guarantees and you have to be sure. To expect people to jump form just a call is a bit naive. 

 

Visit places, show them you are real and try to find some way to give them some guarantees your for real and can pay these kind of things. These companies need to make an investment before they can serve you. I would not do that based on a call from a foreigner or Thai or whatever.

I doubt we can match your vast business expertise but some of us have had some experience in importing and exporting.

I don't think they were expecting orders from a phone call or email as you fancifully put it. 

More likely all they wanted was a response so that an appointment could be made for a personal discussion on what opportunities for mutual benefit might be opened up.

[thaiguzzi]

Doing business In Thailand an absolute nightmare

 

Still, there's always Soi Cowboy at the end of the day, hey?

Which is why you are still really here, n'est pas?

[BestB]

Just now, thaiguzzi said:

Doing business In Thailand an absolute nightmare

 

Still, there's always Soi Cowboy at the end of the day, hey?

Which is why you are still really here, n'est pas?

Soi cowboy business was done 18 years ago. ????

 

but yes you right , I am still here after 18 years to hang around hookers  and marry them ????

[VocalNeal]

33 minutes ago, BestB said:

How do you propose I order when i do not know the price or if can handle the order ?

 

lets hear your logical explanation 

Have you sat down with them and chatted? 

 

Had a coffee?

 

i met a guy on Sukumvit sitting at the bar at The Game he had a bag full of Viagra. He was going to sell it back at home to pay for his trip.

[neeray]

My business experience buying from Thais was 180 degrees counter to yours. But maybe it's different in the big picture like yours, as mine, comparatively speaking, was small potatoes.

 

Three years ago, I purchased a container of artisan products, about a million baht, from some 3 dozen suppliers in the Chiang Mai area. They treated me with great respect, they were all eager to do business. Each and every one met their deadline for my exporter to pick up, pack and load for shipment to Canada. And the export company did their job immaculately too.

 

Maybe your big numbers just scared the ass off the little Thai business people. Perhaps it was out of their comfort zone. Please do not take this personally but maybe they saw farang big numbers as "pie in the sky" and just a waste of their time. Remember, to gear up to your levels takes some investment on their part (the natural Viagara deal for example).

 

Good luck on future ventures.

[jumbo]

1 hour ago, BestB said:

They do not need to have export license as I offered to buy internally and I would export it. Labels cost less than a few baht to make if one is willing. Also as an example I doubt Oleen does not have export license ????

You need an export licence for everything, as a trader even harder to get...

 

[robblok]

57 minutes ago, BestB said:

I believe you have not done any business but an accountant , so to explain it to you, no one ordering new line over the phone but calling to get quotes for existing product.

 

This is not 1 office block to go visit, some companies are in the south , some in the north , some in bkk.

 

just going in in person to find out if they can supply container worth on monthly basis time consuming waste of money.

 

if company can provide products at accepted price , then deals are made in person. 

You can believe what you want but I have done business and I advise businesses. You are truly thinking its too easy. Its just a bit naive but many non business people are like you. The amounts you want to have are quite high, so its not an ordinary order. It would be different if they had a far larger normal production. I have often been called with crazy offers, it takes time to see who is real and who is not. 

 

Why would i invest a lot of time into a venture that sounds too good to be true. If its well within my normal normal production capacity its easy to give an quote. If it is not now then i first need to know that person is genuine before I am going to make a difficult calculation and see how i can allocate extra resources. 

 

It just shows that you have no real insight in how things work. If you ask for extra packaging and changes. Then they need to go and see how they adjust their packaging and how much that would cost. That is a time consuming calculation and takes quite a bit of work. I would not even start a process like that before knowing more about you. There are plenty of time wasters. You must make sure they know your not a time waster and are serious. You cant accomplish that with just a call.

 

 

[robblok]

22 minutes ago, neeray said:

My business experience buying from Thais was 180 degrees counter to yours. But maybe it's different in the big picture like yours, as mine, comparatively speaking, was small potatoes.

 

Three years ago, I purchased a container of artisan products, about a million baht, from some 3 dozen suppliers in the Chiang Mai area. They treated me with great respect, they were all eager to do business. Each and every one met their deadline for my exporter to pick up, pack and load for shipment to Canada. And the export company did their job immaculately too.

 

Maybe your big numbers just scared the ass off the little Thai business people. Perhaps it was out of their comfort zone. Please do not take this personally but maybe they saw farang big numbers as "pie in the sky" and just a waste of their time. Remember, to gear up to your levels takes some investment on their part (the natural Viagara deal for example).

 

Good luck on future ventures.

He does not get that that big numbers mean a big investment and can scare people off if they don't know he is genuine. Like i said the OP has a lot to learn. It takes a while before one has insights in doing business. In general i see most business struggle the first years finding the right suppliers and so on. (and this is in a country they know). Later they get things right.. to think that one can right of the bat have the right contacts in a foreign country is a bit naive.