UK's worst-case no-deal Brexit plan warns of food shortages, public disorder

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Lets say you have a working car. And then this dealer comes and tells you that you can have a big car for the same money. It will be faster, more comfortable and it will need less fuel. You think great, I want that.

But then you think about it again and look closer at the car which the dealer wants to sell you. And you find out it will be a real hassle. From far away it looks ok but on a closer look it has lots of problems which you didn't notice first.

Now, would you still buy that big car which you dreamed about would be so great? Or do you look at the facts and think again that maybe your first impression was wrong and maybe your current car is still the better alternative?

Obviously cars and countries are not comparable but I am sure you understand the idea.

 

The USA and China are a lot bigger than the UK. That makes a BIG difference. And all these countries were never part of the EU so they don't have to redo what the EU did over the last decades. I.e. all those trade deals from the EU with other countries don't exist anymore when the UK leaves the EU. They have to do all those trade deals again. And now the little UK asks for a trade deal and not anymore the big EU. Do you spot the difference?

 

Intelligence has nothing to do with having a university degree.

Personally I think about a person as intelligent if he or she is able to look at data, check if this data is correct, analyze it, and then make decisions based on the facts. Highly intelligent people do this faster than average intelligent people. And intellectually challenged people don't even understand the problem.

So for Brexiters I see two options: Maybe they are average intelligent and it takes them a little longer to understand that the politicians lied to them and promised the impossible. Or maybe they are just plain stupid and don't realize the problems, even if they are presented to them. 

All well and good.....unless the data is corrupted.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

3 hours ago, ThaiBunny said:

I see you've jumped the queue

 

 

1 hour ago, wilcopops said:

You really believe that?

Maybe the problem was when you said "I have a free bottle in front of me", he took it to mean I have a pre frontal lobotomy.

Brexiteers - slow on the uptake!

 

(Sorry I did use that one before once)

[StreetCowboy]

9 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I didn't do fine since the referendum, quite the opposite. With sterling tanking over the last few years Brexit has resulted in me 'watching my pennies'.  And I expect so do many other retirees. 

 

And for god's sake, read what democracy is in relation to the UK. A bunch of leavers demanding the government and those who voted remain heed the referendum vote is hardly democratic - BECAUSE only parliament can DECIDE what's best for Britain.

 

However, it is clear that Brexit must be resolved sooner rather than later, but NOT by invoking a 'no-deal' to achieve that. IMO, a compromise deal must be the best agreed action MPs could take. It won't be what's best for Britain but it's not the worst - whether any government could manage the repercussions, from what I've experienced, is debatable.  

Brexit is a bit like alcoholism; you can't start your recovery until you've hit rock-bottom, and anyone that tries to help is simply postponing the inevitable. 

 

After Brexit, we can destroy parliament, and re-form our woefully impoverished and tragically diminished nation as an anarcho-cynicalist commune looking forward to a brighter future.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

And it doesn't illigitamise my use of the phrase. It means in a general context, "We're British, we don't run from a fight". Same as other phrases I used, such as "Better to stay and fight, than run and hide" and "It's better to be inside the tent, peeing out than outside the tent peeing in".

 

All used to illustrate that it's remainers who are the real patriots and can hold their heads up and call themselves British, whereas Brexiteers are the cowards who run away from a fight.

 

Better to stay in the EU and fight for our rights than to run away from the EU and abrogate the rights that we have already won.

 

Maggie Thatcher would be thoroughly ashamed of you spineless Brexiteers.

 

 

Maggie Thatcher would have had us out 28 years ago if she had had the chance.

[JonnyF]

12 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I didn't do fine since the referendum, quite the opposite. With sterling tanking over the last few years Brexit has resulted in me 'watching my pennies'.  And I expect so do many other retirees. 

 

And for god's sake, read what democracy is in relation to the UK. A bunch of leavers demanding the government and those who voted remain heed the referendum vote is hardly democratic - BECAUSE only parliament can DECIDE what's best for Britain.

First, Brexit was about the UK's future, not about how much stephenterry has to spend each month.

 

Secondly, Parliament voted to have the referendum and then Parliament voted to enact article 50 after Leave won the democratic vote. There was nothing wrong with the Democratic process, until MP's decided to not honor the manifestos on which they were elected to their positions, aided by a speaker who was supposed to be impartial but who sided with Remain due to his personal political beliefs.

[Krataiboy]

The primary responsibility for the UK's failure adequately to prepare for a "crash-out" Brexit lies with the late unlamented Prime Minister, Remainer and arch EU collaborator Theresa May.

 

She frittered away more than two years in seeking to force her egregious BRINO through the Commons, while deliberately and cynically making no preparations for a sudden exit -an option she repeatedly and mendaciously told us would be preferable to a bad deal..

 

The chances of us leaving without a deal under Boris's watch are virtually zero. Despite his pledge to leave on October 31 "deal or no deal", he was never a committed Leaver and in fact voted for the "May deal" on its last Commons outing.

 

Clearly, the Eton and Oxford educated current occupant of No. 10 is not the brainless buffoon he is painted by his detractors. He knew Brexit was a poisoned chalice, but gambled on the opportunity it provided to advance his vaulting political ambitions.

 

He is betting that the harder Remainers make it for him to deliver any kind of Brexit by his self-imposed deadline, the more he is likely to be regarded as an anti-establishment champion of the people.

 

Expect him to come up with an eleventh-hour "surprise" concession from the EU - probably on the backstop - which will hand the craven Commons the excuse to endorse May's sell-out Withdrawal Agreement at the fourth asking.

 

As the post-Brexit dust settles, a battered but heroically unbowed Boris will be ready to lead the newly-unified Tories to victory over Corbyn's fragmented rabble in a late-Autumn general election.

 

The whole stinking charade makes on ashamed to be British.

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

First, Brexit was about the UK's future, not about how much stephenterry has to spend each month.

 

Secondly, Parliament voted to have the referendum and then Parliament voted to enact article 50 after Leave won the democratic vote. There was nothing wrong with the Democratic process, until MP's decided to not honor the manifestos on which they were elected to their positions, aided by a speaker who was supposed to be impartial but who sided with Remain due to his personal political beliefs.

 

I would suggest there will not be a beneficial future after a no-deal Brexit. so it's not at all fine. That I'm one person in 65 million doesn't mean I and millions of others won't be adversely affected.

 

if you can remember May brought a deal to the HoC and both the DUP and ERG tories voted against it. Otherwise we would all have left the EU by March 2019 and be getting on with our lives. Isn't that what the referendum question asked?  Leave or Remain?

 

That you and other Lemmings don't like it, is neither here nor there. Go and complain to your MP, instead.   

 

[nauseus]

16 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

I didn't do fine since the referendum, quite the opposite. With sterling tanking over the last few years Brexit has resulted in me 'watching my pennies'.  And I expect so do many other retirees. 

 

And for god's sake, read what democracy is in relation to the UK. A bunch of leavers demanding the government and those who voted remain heed the referendum vote is hardly democratic - BECAUSE only parliament can DECIDE what's best for Britain.

 

However, it is clear that Brexit must be resolved sooner rather than later, but NOT by invoking a 'no-deal' to achieve that. IMO, a compromise deal must be the best agreed action MPs could take. It won't be what's best for Britain but it's not the worst - whether any government could manage the repercussions, from what I've experienced, is debatable.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The current parliament is now full of self-serving morons. Many MP's have reversed course on their own previous votes, party manifestos and even changed party completely. The policies that they were voted in on are now largely ignored and some of the individuals are so bad now that the public want to choose again. This parliament needs a good shake-up. The best and only way to go forward now is via a general election. A new representative parliament could then decide on what is truly best for Britain.

 

[puck2]

3 hours ago, Estrada said:

63% did not vote to leave.

 

For me,  73% "didn't vote to leave".

(100% - 27% = 73%;  control:  25% + 20% + 28% = 73%)

 

[stephenterry]

1 minute ago, nauseus said:

The current parliament is now full of self-serving morons. Many MP's have reversed course on their own previous votes, party manifestos and even changed party completely. The policies that they were voted in on are now largely ignored and some of the individuals are so bad now that the public want to choose again. This parliament needs a good shake-up. The best and only way to go forward now is via a general election. A new representative parliament could then decide on what is truly best for Britain.

 

In principle, I agree. In practice, can you see any new representative government deciding what is truly best for Britain?  Based on the last few years, I think not. 

 

What is crystal is that Brexit just didn't work as proposed by both sides. It's a heap of garbage, that however it's taken moving forward by an 'enlightened' government, half the population will hate it.

 

And more to the point, the taxpayer will be funding it. 

 

 

[nauseus]

3 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

In principle, I agree. In practice, can you see any new representative government deciding what is truly best for Britain?  Based on the last few years, I think not. 

 

What is crystal is that Brexit just didn't work as proposed by both sides. It's a heap of garbage, that however it's taken moving forward by an 'enlightened' government, half the population will hate it.

 

And more to the point, the taxpayer will be funding it. 

 

 

It is something that should happen. Many voters are becoming increasingly frustrated with their own MPs and this (2017) parliament have proved that they are incapable of progress; rather the reverse. 

[stephenterry]

31 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

The primary responsibility for the UK's failure adequately to prepare for a "crash-out" Brexit lies with the late unlamented Prime Minister, Remainer and arch EU collaborator Theresa May.

 

She frittered away more than two years in seeking to force her egregious BRINO through the Commons, while deliberately and cynically making no preparations for a sudden exit -an option she repeatedly and mendaciously told us would be preferable to a bad deal..

 

The chances of us leaving without a deal under Boris's watch are virtually zero. Despite his pledge to leave on October 31 "deal or no deal", he was never a committed Leaver and in fact voted for the "May deal" on its last Commons outing.

 

Clearly, the Eton and Oxford educated current occupant of No. 10 is not the brainless buffoon he is painted by his detractors. He knew Brexit was a poisoned chalice, but gambled on the opportunity it provided to advance his vaulting political ambitions.

 

He is betting that the harder Remainers make it for him to deliver any kind of Brexit by his self-imposed deadline, the more he is likely to be regarded as an anti-establishment champion of the people.

 

Expect him to come up with an eleventh-hour "surprise" concession from the EU - probably on the backstop - which will hand the craven Commons the excuse to endorse May's sell-out Withdrawal Agreement at the fourth asking.

 

As the post-Brexit dust settles, a battered but heroically unbowed Boris will be ready to lead the newly-unified Tories to victory over Corbyn's fragmented rabble in a late-Autumn general election.

 

The whole stinking charade makes on ashamed to be British.

The primary responsibility for the UK's failure adequately to prepare for a "crash-out" Brexit lies with the late unlamented Prime Minister, Remainer and arch EU collaborator Theresa May.

 

Incorrect. The primary responsibility lies firmly in the hands of Cameron, who dreamt up the referendum to quell the tory right wingers.  And who stated he would honour the result.

 

May delivered a deal, remember, which did honour the result to LEAVE. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mike Teavee]

25 minutes ago, nauseus said:

It is something that should happen. Many voters are becoming increasingly frustrated with their own MPs and this (2017) parliament have proved that they are incapable of progress; rather the reverse. 

I agree and much though I don't like the ramifications of having a second referendum, I personally think the current paralysis is worse.

 

So in the spirit of the lesser of 2 evils, why not have a 2nd referendum that states... 

 

"As your government has been unable to to reach an agreement on how to move forward with Brexit , we put it to you the people to let us know how you want to proceed...

1. In regards to the UK membership of the EU, do you Want to
   1. Remain
   2. Leave 
2. If you voted to Leave, do you want to leave the EU
   1. With No Deal
   2. With a Deal
3. In the event that a satisfactory deal cannot be negotiated within the next 3 months do you want to 
   1. Leave the EU with no Deal
   2. Remain
   3. Extend the negotiations for another 3 months

Make it binding & have done with it... 

 

 

An alternative is to have a General Election, but the problem with this is that you're voting for Brexit alongside other policies (NHS, Policing, Education, Budget etc)... so somebody who might want to Remain and so be leaning towards Labour could be totally against Corbyn's policies on Policing, NHS, Education & approach to Businesses.

 

 

 

 

[3 minus 2]

 

the blind stupidity and ignorance on this  forum never ceases to amaze me.. from the bank of england to leading economists are all saying brexits  a dumb move and a hard brexit is borderline a financial disaster..  yet good old brexiters... are coming out with thw same old  misinformed nasty ignorant nonsence.. a good place to start would be for brexiters would be  to learn to  diferate between a feeling which is what the majority are basing their stance on the ec on,  WHICH HAS NO PLACE in any sort of plan  and a thought.. and apply logic to the later and  V V UNFORTUNATLLY their is only one conclusion..  brexit is just plain dumb and in every which way its a bad move.

[puck2]

For me it's hard to understand (the unwritten UK law) why

• the parliament needs 2 thirds of the votes to have a new election, but
• only a majority of 50.oox% of votes to leave the EU, a decision with far reaching consequences.

 

 

[damascase]

3 hours ago, Joinaman said:

sounds a bit like staying in the EU does it not

Told lies from day one, told how good it was going to be for us all, while increasing cost, taking away our freedoms 

But hey, come back in 5 years time after the Lisbon Treaty is in full force and let is know how that works out for you

Yes massive, ( possibly but unlikely) disruption, for short period, then settles down with the UK able to decide how and what it wishes to do

More expensive, possible on some items, much cheaper on other too, so no problems there 

Fewer jobs, like the project fear kept telling us if we voted out, but like so many , have been proven to be lies  and totally wrong haven;t they ?

Please explain the upside to remaining as servants to the EU, with the loss of all our forces, laws, parliament, loss of jobs, increased payments, etc, etc,

Then give us the true downsides of leaving, but please, no opinions, just true facts and links to these facts

Would be very interested in knowing the true facts from a really intelligent remainer, rather than some idiots opinion

but still waiting for these since the referendum , so looks like i will never get them

 

‘Please explain the upside to remaining as servants to the EU, with the loss of all our forces, laws, parliament, loss of jobs, increased payments, etc, etc,’ : well, if that’s your view of the current situation in the EU I’m afraid an explanation would be a waste of time.........

 

[DannyCarlton]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Maggie Thatcher would have had us out 28 years ago if she had had the chance.

Thatcher was pro EU. She just made shure we got a good deal out of it.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, Laughing Gravy said:

Do you want to stoop democracy

No, not at all.

People decided (not binding) that they want to leave the EU. They voted based on wrong and incomplete information.

Politicians promised them the impossible. And politicians were obviously not able to deliver the impossible because it's impossible.

Now the voters have a lot more information. Let them vote now based on that new information. Let them decide if they want to leave with a realistic deal (May's deal is realistic), no deal (including all the hassle which will happen after no deal, or if they want to stay in the imperfect EU.

People vote for a new parliament every 4 years because people change their minds.

Why shouldn't they vote again about Brexit based on better information?

Only people who don't like informed voters are against a 2nd vote.

[OneMoreFarang]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Did you believe the predictions that were made about voting to leave? Not actually leaving, voting to leave. Tell the truth, did you believe them?

 

Because those predictions have now been proved completely wrong. We now see the reality that have proved those predictions to be factually wrong. So using your logic, the people who made them were stupid. And if you believed them you are also stupid. These are for the most part the same people predicting armageddon when we actually leave. So why should we believe them? 

 

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/brexit-is-already-changing-the-british-economy-for-the-better/

 

The Spectator? 555

[OneMoreFarang]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

3 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Intelligence has nothing to do with having a university degree.

Personally I think about a person as intelligent if he or she is able to look at data, check if this data is correct, analyze it, and then make decisions based on the facts. Highly intelligent people do this faster than average intelligent people. And intellectually challenged people don't even understand the problem.

So for Brexiters I see two options: Maybe they are average intelligent and it takes them a little longer to understand that the politicians lied to them and promised the impossible. Or maybe they are just plain stupid and don't realize the problems, even if they are presented to them. 

All well and good.....unless the data is corrupted.

Sure. That is why intelligent people look at data from different sources and compare them. And they look how trustworthy the sources are.

Obviously future predictions will never be 100% accurate. But if the majority of experts agree something will likely happen then there is a good chance it will actually happen.

[Dumbastheycome]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

What reality? It's a prediction. 

 

Here is reality. 

 

https://www.sharecast.com/news/news-and-announcements--/recession-fears-ease-as-uk-gdp-beats-expectations-in-july--7003393.html

 

We did fine after a vote to leave, despite the doomsday predictions. We've done fine through 3 years of uncertainty caused by Remaniacs being unable to accept the result of the democratic vote. We'll do fine after we leave.

 

Project Fear is failing. It seems Brexiteers are smarter than you think, certainly smart enough to see through all the lies and doomsday predictions.

 

 

Has it been   so "fine" ? Perhaps some advantage in the devalued UK currency has been kind to exporters for the time being but it need be recognized  that in general terms the UK has continued  status quo  trading in the EU market for the last 3 years. In the event of a no deal Brexit ,and perhaps  even with, can any observer realistically deny that in immediate or even in a longer term the impact for a population that has little preparedness or comprehension is going to be massive.

Is sunshine yellow paperwork going to appease the masses of which roughly half by referendum  vote does not want it? Will it be "do or die" or will it be "do and  die" ? Boris  just may end up in his ditch by no choice of his own !

[nauseus]

49 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

Thatcher was pro EU. She just made shure we got a good deal out of it.

She was until a few years before her end as PM. She realised what the Maastricht Treaty was going to mean - changed her mind and became EUrosceptic - this is one of the main reasons why she got the boot. 

[Parsve]

3 hours ago, Sydebolle said:

All big BS; wondering who will provide the EU with consumer goods like beers, "after eight chocolates" etc. and the European car scene is interwoven in such a way, that neither the UK nor the EU business society wants Brussels to touch anything. 

EU is losing power and lots of steam - and they dont like it. Likewise some UK politicians see their prewarmed little seats gone once UK is out of the EU - and their own personal welfare and well-being is above anything else ???? 
 

So you think that not getting UK beer and after eight will make EU to make a change? And by the way, how many car manufacturers in UK are not from the EU?

[beautifulthailand99]

6 hours ago, OneMoreFarang said:

3 years ago people were promised things will be great after Brexit - and 52% voted for Brexit.

Then it became more and more clear:

- there is no easy breakup, it's mayor headache

- there is no easy trade deal (with the EU or anybody else)

- there will be massive short time disruptions

- there will be lots of long time problems, things get more expensive, companies move out, fewer jobs, etc.

One would think that the people who believed 3 years ago that things will get better should by now know that that is not the case. There is no upside of Brexit. Or if there is one nobody discovered it yet.

And still so many people support Brexit. Might it be related to their limited IQ?

It's a cult full of cult followers following a bunch of rich cult businessmen. 

[DannyCarlton]

6 minutes ago, Parsve said:

So you think that not getting UK beer and after eight will make EU to make a change?

UK beer. eew! Have you ever tried it? I only drink Belgian, German and Italian beer in the UK. (in that order).

 

As much as I like them After Eights are made by Nestle - a Swiss company.

[VocalNeal]

21 minutes ago, DannyCarlton said:

UK beer. eew! Have you ever tried it?

Magic stuff one can actually drink not like over carbonated, freezing cold Europiss.

[Forethat]

1 hour ago, DannyCarlton said:

Thatcher was pro EU. She just made shure we got a good deal out of it.

Pardon? I've never heard such twaddle-speak. Thatcher was pro free trade and "willing and active cooperation between independent sovereign states”. She was against EXACTLY the federalist fascist agenda promoted by reimainers. She spent the last 10 years of her life waving red flags labeled "watch out for the federalist trap set by EU".

 

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, Mike Teavee said:

I agree and much though I don't like the ramifications of having a second referendum, I personally think the current paralysis is worse.

 

So in the spirit of the lesser of 2 evils, why not have a 2nd referendum that states... 

 

"As your government has been unable to to reach an agreement on how to move forward with Brexit , we put it to you the people to let us know how you want to proceed...

1. In regards to the UK membership of the EU, do you Want to
   1. Remain
   2. Leave 
2. If you voted to Leave, do you want to leave the EU
   1. With No Deal
   2. With a Deal
3. In the event that a satisfactory deal cannot be negotiated within the next 3 months do you want to 
   1. Leave the EU with no Deal
   2. Remain
   3. Extend the negotiations for another 3 months

Make it binding & have done with it... 

 

 

An alternative is to have a General Election, but the problem with this is that you're voting for Brexit alongside other policies (NHS, Policing, Education, Budget etc)... so somebody who might want to Remain and so be leaning towards Labour could be totally against Corbyn's policies on Policing, NHS, Education & approach to Businesses.

 

 

 

 

Agree, mostly. My big issue with that is that no election means letting the same bozos stay in the HoC.

[candide]

6 hours ago, Joinaman said:

sounds a bit like staying in the EU does it not

Told lies from day one, told how good it was going to be for us all, while increasing cost, taking away our freedoms 

But hey, come back in 5 years time after the Lisbon Treaty is in full force and let is know how that works out for you

Yes massive, ( possibly but unlikely) disruption, for short period, then settles down with the UK able to decide how and what it wishes to do

More expensive, possible on some items, much cheaper on other too, so no problems there 

Fewer jobs, like the project fear kept telling us if we voted out, but like so many , have been proven to be lies  and totally wrong haven;t they ?

Please explain the upside to remaining as servants to the EU, with the loss of all our forces, laws, parliament, loss of jobs, increased payments, etc, etc,

Then give us the true downsides of leaving, but please, no opinions, just true facts and links to these facts

Would be very interested in knowing the true facts from a really intelligent remainer, rather than some idiots opinion

but still waiting for these since the referendum , so looks like i will never get them

And where are your facts?

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, kingdong said:

Don,t worry about it,all we,'re doing is hoping for the best,but preparing for the worst,once we,'re out i,'ll give the European union 5 years max.adios amigo.

 

 

 

 

years max,adios amigo.

So you're answer is to cross your fingers, close your eyes and hope for the best.  Great strategy for protecting the citizens.