Israel must have freedom to act against Iran, Netanyahu says in Russia

[dexterm]

11 hours ago, Jingthing said:

The Iranian regime wants Israel to not exist at all. The Israeli position is not against Iran existing. So I hope you're correct that Israel is much stronger than Iran. They need to be!

That's an old debunked chestnut.
Iran has nothing against Jews or the Israeli people.
There is a large Jewish community in Iran.

 

"Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.
About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

 

Iran simply wants an end to the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism which states that only Jews have the right to self determination while the indigenous majority population of Palestinians do not.

[dexterm]

9 hours ago, sanemax said:

Israel already has the ability to use nukes on Iran and has had that ability for 40 odd years .

  Israel has nukes just for defensive purposes , not for attack

Nonsense. Israel is quite irresponsible when it comes to its nuclear arsenal. They even offered to sell some to apartheid South Africa.
"Secret South African documents [now declassified]reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state's possession of nuclear weapons."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

 

SIPRI: Israel has close to 100 nuclear warheads.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/SIPRI-Israel-has-close-to-100-nuclear-warheads-592702

 

...and of course USA hypocritically turns a blind eye to all that while condemning and sanctioning Iran for trying to defend itself.

"Trump became the fourth U.S. president to uphold the decades-long pledge not to press Israel to give up its nuclear weapons, The New Yorker reports"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/how-bibi-got-trump-to-sign-off-on-israel-s-nuclear-arsenal-1.6192718

[BestB]

3 minutes ago, dexterm said:

That's an old debunked chestnut.
Iran has nothing against Jews or the Israeli people.
There is a large Jewish community in Iran.

 

"Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.
About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

 

Iran simply wants an end to the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism which states that only Jews have the right to self determination while the indigenous majority population of Palestinians do not.

And Israel has nothing against Iranian people with larger Arab population outside any Muslim country who are there to stay and proud to be called Israeli Arabs 

 

israel simply wants an end to attacks on Israel by Iranian backed proxies and Iranian ideology 

[BestB]

1 minute ago, dexterm said:

Nonsense. Israel is quite irresponsible when it comes to its nuclear arsenal. They even offered to sell some to apartheid South Africa.
"Secret South African documents [now declassified]reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state's possession of nuclear weapons."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

 

SIPRI: Israel has close to 100 nuclear warheads.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/SIPRI-Israel-has-close-to-100-nuclear-warheads-592702

 

...and of course USA hypocritically turns a blind eye to all that while condemning and sanctioning Iran for trying to defend itself.

"Trump became the fourth U.S. president to uphold the decades-long pledge not to press Israel to give up its nuclear weapons, The New Yorker reports"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/how-bibi-got-trump-to-sign-off-on-israel-s-nuclear-arsenal-1.6192718

Interesting , according to some cheerleaders here israel has over 200.

 

can you lot not agree on one number and stick to it?????

[OneMoreFarang]

On 9/13/2019 at 4:43 AM, webfact said:

Israel must have freedom to act against Iran

And how about: Iran must have freedom to act against Israel

And to be fair Iran should have the same amount of nukes like the Israelis to guarantee there is a fair fight.

But let me guess, the Israelis and their US sponsors don't like fair fights...

[BestB]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

And how about: Iran must have freedom to act against Israel

And to be fair Iran should have the same amount of nukes like the Israelis to guarantee there is a fair fight.

But let me guess, the Israelis and their US sponsors don't like fair fights...

Last time I checked israel was not building bases in Iran or Iranian borders or supplying Iranian enemies with rockets . But that was last time, maybe things have changed and you can post some evidence of Israeli bases in or around Iran or Iranian enemies stockpiling Israeli made rockets and bombs 

[dexterm]

6 minutes ago, BestB said:

And Israel has nothing against Iranian people with larger Arab population outside any Muslim country who are there to stay and proud to be called Israeli Arabs 

 

israel simply wants an end to attacks on Israel by Iranian backed proxies and Iranian ideology 

>>And Israel has nothing against the Iranian people..

You are probably quite right, so how about Israel doing something to create detente like making a peace with its neighbors, and cease provoking them by annexing its neighbors' land and threatening to annex even more.

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

3 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how about: Iran must have freedom to act against Israel

And to be fair Iran should have the same amount of nukes like the Israelis to guarantee there is a fair fight.

But let me guess, the Israelis and their US sponsors don't like fair fights...

Last time I checked israel was not building bases in Iran or Iranian borders or supplying Iranian enemies with rockets . But that was last time, maybe things have changed and you can post some evidence of Israeli bases in or around Iran or Iranian enemies stockpiling Israeli made rockets and bombs 

Do you claim that Israels existing nukes wouldn't reach Iran?

[BestB]

Just now, dexterm said:

>>And Israel has nothing against the Iranian people..

You are probably quite right, so how about Israel doing something to create detente like making a peace with its neighbors, and cease provoking them by annexing its neighbors' land and threatening to annex even more.

Last time I checked israel did have peace agreements with its neighbors , ones who were willing to accept it .

 

Also last time I checked Iran was not a neighbor but did all possible to assist in attacking Israel , mind you attacking the civilians the very same Jewish people you claim Iran has nothing against 

[BestB]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Do you claim that Israels existing nukes wouldn't reach Iran?

Do you claim israel threatened to use nukes or wanted to wipe Iran off the maps ? If so, show proof 

[Jack Mountain]

Just for clarity, Iran is a Persian country not an Arab one ...

[dexterm]

OP..
"The news agency, also citing the minister, said that Putin and Netanyahu both underlined the need to safeguard Syria's territorial integrity and sovereignty."

 

I don't know how Netanyahu can say that with a straight face having annexed Syria's Golan Heights and recently praised Trump for recognizing that annexation to help him in the Israeli elections.

[Morch]

25 minutes ago, dexterm said:

That's an old debunked chestnut.
Iran has nothing against Jews or the Israeli people.
There is a large Jewish community in Iran.

 

"Although Iran and Israel are bitter enemies, few know that Iran is home to the largest number of Jews anywhere in the Middle East outside Israel.
About 25,000 Jews live in Iran and most are determined to remain no matter what the pressures - as proud of their Iranian culture as of their Jewish roots."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5367892.stm

 

Iran simply wants an end to the racist supremacist ideology of Zionism which states that only Jews have the right to self determination while the indigenous majority population of Palestinians do not.

 

Claims "debunked chestnut", uses debunked chestnut as support. About the usual fare.

You keep bringing up these faux points on numerous topics. So let's have another round.

 

There is no meaningful way in which "de-Zionising" Israel doesn't amount to anything but dismantling the country of Israel. You wish to go on one of your fantasy kumbaya rants in response - go right ahead. Note that it isn't what the topic is about, though.

 

You go on about Jews in Iran, while glossing over that they do not enjoy full freedoms (most notably when it comes to leaving the country), or that similarly, Israel got an even more sizeable Arab minority. And, if following your presentation, that this Israel's Arab minority isn't interested in emigrating either.

 

Quoting Iranian Jews on record, and expecting them to be anything but supportive of the Iranian regime is a choice. Iran's authorities are not particularly open to criticism, nor is the Jewish community interested in being targeted by them.

 

[Morch]

31 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Nonsense. Israel is quite irresponsible when it comes to its nuclear arsenal. They even offered to sell some to apartheid South Africa.
"Secret South African documents [now declassified]reveal that Israel offered to sell nuclear warheads to the apartheid regime, providing the first official documentary evidence of the state's possession of nuclear weapons."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2010/may/23/israel-south-africa-nuclear-weapons

 

SIPRI: Israel has close to 100 nuclear warheads.
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/SIPRI-Israel-has-close-to-100-nuclear-warheads-592702

 

...and of course USA hypocritically turns a blind eye to all that while condemning and sanctioning Iran for trying to defend itself.

"Trump became the fourth U.S. president to uphold the decades-long pledge not to press Israel to give up its nuclear weapons, The New Yorker reports"
https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/how-bibi-got-trump-to-sign-off-on-israel-s-nuclear-arsenal-1.6192718

 

How does this relate to the comment you responded to? But do go on about "nonsense", by all means.

[dexterm]

22 minutes ago, BestB said:

Do you claim israel threatened to use nukes or wanted to wipe Iran off the maps ? If so, show proof 

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used a visit to a secretive Israeli atomic reactor on Wednesday to warn the country’s enemies that it has the means to destroy them, in what appeared to be a veiled reference to its assumed nuclear arsenal.

Those who threaten to wipe us out put themselves in a similar danger, and in any event will not achieve their goal,” he said during a ceremony to rename the complex, near the desert town of Dimona, after the late Israeli statesman Shimon Peres.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-nuclear/at-dimona-reactor-netanyahu-warns-israels-foes-they-risk-ruin-idUSKCN1LE270

 

Israel is a nuclear power threatening a non nuclear power. I guess if Iran uses forward bases and long range conventional missiles to rain similar destruction on Israel, it creates a stalemate

[Morch]

28 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

And how about: Iran must have freedom to act against Israel

And to be fair Iran should have the same amount of nukes like the Israelis to guarantee there is a fair fight.

But let me guess, the Israelis and their US sponsors don't like fair fights...

 

In what way, and by whom, is Iran being limited or barred from taking action?

 

Iran sponsored and sponsored attacks on Israel. It even carried out such. The OP is about Iran apparently being free to carry on it's anti-Israel activities in the region, and Israel wishing more freedom to counter them.

 

The tit-for-tat nuclear proliferation argument is still a stupid one. It's interesting to see some posters hatred of Israel overtakes their rationality on this score.

 

As for "fair fights" - Iran is far richer and larger than Israel. Should it be shrunk and de-funded to make things "fair"? Or maybe we should just go for days of old, when each country sets forth a hero for single combat deciding it all? Fair doesn't come into it, other than for those stuck in schoolyard mentality.

[dexterm]

7 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How does this relate to the comment you responded to? But do go on about "nonsense", by all means.

The poster claimed Israel uses its nuclear arsenal purely for defensive purposes. I just showed that it does not. It is also quite willing to sell nuclear weapons to any repressive regime able to pay for them.

[Morch]

34 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>And Israel has nothing against the Iranian people..

You are probably quite right, so how about Israel doing something to create detente like making a peace with its neighbors, and cease provoking them by annexing its neighbors' land and threatening to annex even more.

 

How about Iran not meddling with it's neighbors, or even farther afield? How about not creating Shia proxies who do not answer to local governments, but do Iran's bidding? How about taking a more mellow rhetoric? Nah....for you, it's always only about Israel.

[dexterm]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

How about Iran not meddling with it's neighbors, or even farther afield? How about not creating Shia proxies who do not answer to local governments, but do Iran's bidding? How about taking a more mellow rhetoric? Nah....for you, it's always only about Israel.

Detente has to start somewhere. How about a mutual ratcheting down? But maybe we will have to wait for the Israeli election rhetoric to end for that.

Iran signed a non nuclear proliferation deal and it was working, until Netanyahu and Trump scuppered it.
Israel done anything to ease tensions lately??..other than annexing its neighbors' lands, threatening to wipe them out, and bombing Syria almost daily for over a decade now. 

[Morch]

27 minutes ago, dexterm said:

OP..
"The news agency, also citing the minister, said that Putin and Netanyahu both underlined the need to safeguard Syria's territorial integrity and sovereignty."

 

I don't know how Netanyahu can say that with a straight face having annexed Syria's Golan Heights and recently praised Trump for recognizing that annexation to help him in the Israeli elections.

 

"...citing the minister.."

 

That would be the Russian Foreign Minister, Lavrov.  Putin is also clearly mentioned.

No comment out of you on their apparent lack of objection to this.

[BestB]

37 minutes ago, dexterm said:

OP..
"The news agency, also citing the minister, said that Putin and Netanyahu both underlined the need to safeguard Syria's territorial integrity and sovereignty."

 

I don't know how Netanyahu can say that with a straight face having annexed Syria's Golan Heights and recently praised Trump for recognizing that annexation to help him in the Israeli elections.

Errr , lost territory during a war instigated by Syria  and is to be used to attack Israel again if given back 

[BestB]

23 minutes ago, dexterm said:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used a visit to a secretive Israeli atomic reactor on Wednesday to warn the country’s enemies that it has the means to destroy them, in what appeared to be a veiled reference to its assumed nuclear arsenal.

Those who threaten to wipe us out put themselves in a similar danger, and in any event will not achieve their goal,” he said during a ceremony to rename the complex, near the desert town of Dimona, after the late Israeli statesman Shimon Peres.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-nuclear/at-dimona-reactor-netanyahu-warns-israels-foes-they-risk-ruin-idUSKCN1LE270

 

Israel is a nuclear power threatening a non nuclear power. I guess if Iran uses forward bases and long range conventional missiles to rain similar destruction on Israel, it creates a stalemate

What appeared and what you heard or think may of heard is very different to what was said 

[Morch]

18 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The poster claimed Israel uses its nuclear arsenal purely for defensive purposes. I just showed that it does not. It is also quite willing to sell nuclear weapons to any repressive regime able to pay for them.

 

Yes, and that threatened Iran, because....?

[dexterm]

8 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

"...citing the minister.."

 

That would be the Russian Foreign Minister, Lavrov.  Putin is also clearly mentioned.

No comment out of you on their apparent lack of objection to this.

You're deflecting with whataboutery. The minister quoting Netanyahu was there...you weren't.

 

Russians and Iranians were invited to defend Syrian sovereignty. Israel wasn't and doesn't...hence the hypocrisy when it illegally annexes Syrian land.

[billd766]

On 9/13/2019 at 6:00 PM, bangrak said:

...1967 ?

But that was 52 years ago, back in the last century.

 

This is 2019 and unless a country has declared war on Israel they have NO rights at all to attack Syria, Iran, Lebanon et al.

 

That doesn't matter to Israel as motormouth Trump will defend them to the last drop of somebody elses blood.

[spidermike007]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:55 PM, BestB said:

Amazing how much rubbish one can write in one post but since Israel refuses to admit , how exactly do you know there are 200 nukes? Or it’s in line with the rest of your post nothing but rubbish?

 

Unofficially, Tel Aviv wants everyone to know it has them, and doesn’t hesitate to make thinly-veiled references to its willingness to use them if confronted by an existential threat. Estimates on the size of Tel Aviv’s nuclear stockpile range from 80 to 300 nuclear weapons, the latter number exceeding China’s arsenal.

 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/israel-might-have-many-300-nuclear-weapons-and-some-are-ocean-27011

 

In total, the SIPRI report estimated that Israel possesses between 80 and 90 nuclear weapons, an increase over previous years. SIPRI was unable, however, to confirm those estimates with Israel’s government, which has a long-standing policy of refusing to comment on its nuclear weapons program — a policy it describes as “nuclear ambiguity.”

 

https://www.mintpressnews.com/international-watchdog-finds-israel-has-nearly-100-nuclear-weapons/259274/

[tomazbodner]

Nothing to worry about, folks. Kushner's middle east peace plan will fix all of this in a jiffy...

[Morch]

7 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Detente has to start somewhere. How about a mutual ratcheting down? But maybe we will have to wait for the Israeli election rhetoric to end for that.

Iran signed a non nuclear proliferation deal and it was working, until Netanyahu and Trump scuppered it.
Israel done anything to ease tensions lately??..other than annexing its neighbors' lands, threatening to wipe them out, and bombing Syria almost daily for over a decade now. 

 

So you mention "mutual", and then go on the usual rant referring solely to Israel.

 

Nothing to do with Iran's leadership. Nothing to do with Iranian rhetoric. Nothing to do with Iran's actions. Just Israel, as far as you are concerned.

 

Iran breached the terms of the original non-proliferation treaty it signed (that would be the NPT). That you wish to gloss over that, and jump straight to the JCPOA without referencing how and why it came about does not alter facts.

 

Did Iran do anything to ease tension vs. Israel lately? Is Iran a side in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict? As for imagined threats taken out of context, did Iran avoid making such? And bombing Syria - this wouldn't have anything to do with Iran using Syria as a forward base for deployments and arms supply to the Hezbollah?

 

 

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, dexterm said:

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu used a visit to a secretive Israeli atomic reactor on Wednesday to warn the country’s enemies that it has the means to destroy them, in what appeared to be a veiled reference to its assumed nuclear arsenal.

Those who threaten to wipe us out put themselves in a similar danger, and in any event will not achieve their goal,” he said during a ceremony to rename the complex, near the desert town of Dimona, after the late Israeli statesman Shimon Peres.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-israel-nuclear/at-dimona-reactor-netanyahu-warns-israels-foes-they-risk-ruin-idUSKCN1LE270

 

Israel is a nuclear power threatening a non nuclear power. I guess if Iran uses forward bases and long range conventional missiles to rain similar destruction on Israel, it creates a stalemate

 

There's a clear context appearing even in the bit quoted. You blatantly choose to ignore it. Guess it's a choice. Same goes for following the timeline of threats and bellicose statements exchanged. Iran did not even feature much in Israeli comments up until it became more heavily involved with the Hezbollah.

[tlandtday]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:55 PM, BestB said:

Amazing how much rubbish one can write in one post but since Israel refuses to admit , how exactly do you know there are 200 nukes? Or it’s in line with the rest of your post nothing but rubbish?

Israel has long had nukes and the number may actually be greater.