My Tourist Visa Extension Experience & Reporting

[rastlin]

Hi Everyone:

 

     I thought I would share my experience yesterday getting a tourist visa extension.  It was interesting.  As background, I arrived on a 60 day Tourist Visa which I applied for and received in my home country.  I plan to stay a total of 90 days and am staying in a major hotel in Jomtien.  I have stayed there the entire time and I have not traveled around the country at all.  Yes, I am pretty lazy.  I am old and my travelling days are winding down I guess.

 

     My understanding from my reading is getting a 30 day extension would be pretty easy.  I expected a 1900 baht fee.  I knew also I would need to get a picture taken and make some copies of things and fill out forms.  In addition to my passport, I brought every extra document I could think of just in case.  (Including the receipt for advanced payment for the hotel-good thing!)  I felt I was well prepared.

 

Upon arriving at Jomtien immigration, I was given a handful of forms.  I went a shop next door for a photo and to make some copies.  I got the photo and copies but I was advised in the shop by a worker there that I would have to pay a 2600 baht "fine" in addition to the 1900 baht fee as "my hotel did not report me within 24 hours".  Suffice it to say I was surprised-how would they know one way or the other what reporting was done? I kept my mouth shut (my single most important Thailand survival skill)  got my documents copied and picture and went on my way. I declined a variety of extra services (filling out the forms, etc.) offered and just did that stuff myself. I am financially O.K. but I am not made of money.  All these extra fees can add up quick!

 

In immigration, after the lady reviewed the forms, I was given a number. When my number came up (line moved fast) I was given a little pamphlet right away about reporting from the immigration agent and the fines involved and told my hotel did not report me.  I wasn't sure how she would know whether I was reported or not as I didn't see her check anything to confirm reporting.  But who knows, maybe it was checked.  Here is the text from the form she gave me:

 

***

 

according to section 38: "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the Kingdom legally must notify local immigration authorities within 24 hours of the time of their arrival of the foreign national.  If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station.  In Bangkok the notification is made to the immigration bureau.  

 

Section 77:  Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38 must be punished with a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht.  If that person is a hotel manager, he must be punished with a fine of 2,000 Baht to 10,000 Baht.

 

***

 

     I was put off by this.  I am a tourist on a Tourist Visa legally obtained in my home country.  I understand that reporting is required.  But if it is not done, my reading of the above is that the hotel is responsible for the fine not me.  (i.e. the hotel manager would be on the hook for 2-10K baht fine.)

 

     I also recall reading that Tourist Visa holders were exempt (not the hotels themselves but the holder) from reporting.  Perhaps I was wrong on this point however. But do they expect tourists travelling around the country to check in with Immigration at every stop they make on a tour of the country?  And if so, they should make this clear when you get the Visa.  And if the tourist must do the reporting not the hotel, why does the hotel copy all the documents?   And if guests of the hotel must report themselves or pay a 2,000 baht fine, why would you even have a section mentioning higher fines for hotel managers? 

 

      I decided instead of pointing out all of this, to play "dumb tourist" which actually, in my case, is not really playing.  I had a receipt from my hotel for payment (which was one of the copied documents) and I told her it was a big hotel and they do the reporting.  Indeed, when I checked in they copied my passport and all of that and told me they report as required. (I asked the hotel when I checked in why they wanted a copy of my passport and Visa and they told me to report in the morning.) To be fair, I guess I don't know for sure whether the actually did report me but they sure made a copy of a lot of stuff when I checked in.  I told the immigration agent all of this and even showed her my hotel room key as proof I was in a "hotel"-it is the standard hotel room key with the hotel name on it-and again said I was just a tourist wanting a 30 day extension.

 

She then changed track a bit.  She said when I leave and return (from the area?  The country? She did not say.) I also have to report.  I told her O.K. but I did not leave and return from anywhere-I have been checked into this hotel the whole time.  This is actually the case although I honestly didn't know how I could prove it.  She didn't say anything after this, got to work on my forms, gave me another document and I went to another window and had a short wait again.  This window (I had to go get another 5 baht copy of something) was the final stop.  The lady looked over the papers, charged me 1900 baht and in after a few minutes of waiting I had my visa.

 

Bottom Line:  I got my Visa extension for 1900 baht.  No fines, fees or other issues.  But it is pretty clear they were at least fishing for an extra fee.  Be prepared!  In the end, I was in and out of there in under an hour (counting time getting copies and filling out paperwork) so that wasn't bad.  But it wasn't until the very end that I was even sure I was going to pay only the 1900. I had brought extra money, so paying an extra 2,000 would not have been the end of the world, but this adds up.

 

All is well that ends well I suppose, but I must say my experience left a bad taste in my mouth.  I get that this is Thailand and they can do things how they want.  But this reporting requirement is confusing and at least has the feel of a scam.  

 

That is my experience, thanks all.

 

My advice: Be well prepared when you go to immigration for an extension and be sure to bring some extra cash!

 

 

 

 

[Puchaiyank]

The excessive reporting, fees, and penalties are a carefully planned program to make people happy to return to their own countries...IMHO   ????

[rickudon]

My guess is the IO was running a scam - the hotel probably reported you but she was trying to get a 'fee' from you. Most tourists do not extend visas so never have to worry about the TM30 (not checked at airport, only when doing business at Immigration office).

[ukrules]

On 9/13/2019 at 2:18 PM, rastlin said:

 

according to section 38: "House owners, heads of household, landlords or managers of hotels who accommodate foreign nationals on a temporary basis who stay in the Kingdom legally must notify local immigration authorities within 24 hours of the time of their arrival of the foreign national.  If there is no immigration office in the province or locality of the respective house or hotel, the notification is made to the local police station.  In Bangkok the notification is made to the immigration bureau.  

 

Section 77:  Whoever fails to comply with the provision of Section 38 must be punished with a fine not exceeding 2,000 Baht.  If that person is a hotel manager, he must be punished with a fine of 2,000 Baht to 10,000 Baht.

Yep - that part of the law spells out exactly who should be fined and it's not you.

 

You're the last person who should ever be fined for something a large licensed hotel can't be bothered to do.

 

Here we potentially have a hotel that's not bothering to do free reports or a lying scamming immigration office attempting to illegally extort money from you - it's one or the other.

 

It would be interesting to find out if the hotel made the report or not because that would prove that immigration were attempting to scam you and also if they followed up and fined the hotel manager for not doing his job.

 

Edited September 14, 2019 by ukrules

[rastlin]

1 hour ago, ukrules said:

Yep - that part of the law spells out exactly who should be fined and it's not you.

 

You're the last person who should ever be fined for something a large licensed hotel can't be bothered to do.

 

Here we potentially have a hotel that's not bothering to do free reports or a lying scamming immigration office attempting to illegally extort money from you - it's one or the other.

 

It would be interesting to find out if the hotel made the report or not because that would prove that immigration were attempting to scam you and also if they followed up and fined the hotel manager for not doing his job.

 

 

 

According to my hotel, they claim to have reported as required. I asked when I got back to my room.  But do I know this for sure?  No, I suppose I do not. But like I said they copied my passport on check in and that is what they told me.

 

And to be fair to immigration, as I reported I paid 1900 Baht.  There was no fine.  At no point was I ever asked for anything other than that amount, at the very end of the process.  And at least of this writing the hotel has not been fined.  I also asked them that.  

 

But the shop next door told me in no uncertain terms I would have to pay a fine;  I also got that paper I quoted and was told the various things mentioned in my post by the immigration agent, namely "the hotel did not report me" and I did not report when I "left and returned".  This was what I was told by the agent and I have to say it felt like a fine was forthcoming.  But that is just the impression it left with me. In fact there was no fine.

 

Like I said before, the process left a bad taste in my mouth.  I am a *tourist* extending a 60 day tourist Visa legally obtained in my home country.  I stay in a hotel. I do not live here. I am not planning to live here. (And deal with these people every 90 days, no way!)  I am not on any type of long term stay Visa.  So whether or not it was reported when I checked in to the hotel, I just don't see how that should be my problem. 

 

Why should they even bring this matter up to people extending Tourist Visas?  Fine the hotel if something was done wrong, not the dumb (me) tourist who is just here on holiday.  In the future I plan to just stay 60 days.  The 30 extra days of money I would spend on the extension in Thailand I will just spend elsewhere.  I don't plan to go back into immigration any time soon.

 

 

[ukrules]

5 hours ago, rastlin said:

But the shop next door told me in no uncertain terms I would have to pay a fine

This is the strange part - how would the shop next door know whether the hotel you're staying at had filled out the TM30?

 

Hotels do these online every day, it's a very simple process and I've done it myself registering myself in the past on behalf of a half witted owner using her immigration account when she couldn't get her computer to work properly.

 

[rastlin]

2 hours ago, ukrules said:

This is the strange part - how would the shop next door know whether the hotel you're staying at had filled out the TM30?

 

Hotels do these online every day, it's a very simple process and I've done it myself registering myself in the past on behalf of a half witted owner using her immigration account when she couldn't get her computer to work properly.

 

 

This I also found strange. 

 

I went to the shop to get a photo and some copies.  Inside, I was greeted by a Falang worker with a German accent who gave me a run down of various fees.  Some of the fees were fairly straightforward-5 baht for a photocopy, 50 baht for a photo.  Other fees included 200 baht (or maybe it was 250 I do not recall for sure) to fill out the forms they had given me.  There was also a fee-4,000 Baht I remember that most clearly as I almost fainted-where they would "take care of everything".  I  was told I could go have some breakfast and they would come back in "30 minutes" with my Visa extension.

 

I declined everything except the photo and some photocopies.  I told the fellow I would take care of things myself but come back if "I had any problems".  He then told me-even writing it down-that I would pay 1900 baht for the fee and 2600 baht for the fine.  Yes, I have read that the maximum fine is 2,000 Baht.  But that is what he said-2600 Baht.  It was not clear to me if the 4,000 baht fee to "take care of everything" included the 1900 Visa fee and the fine of 2600 Baht or whether that would be on top of these charges as I dismissed paying any fee out of hand.  I'd just leave the country before I would pay all of that!

 

And again, as I have said before, after filling out the forms myself, with the various copies and photos attached, I ended up paying 1900 which is proper amount for such an extension.  But it seemed clear to me that *something* was going on.   I had the feeling that everyone was trying to shake me down for some money.  But I just kept my mouth shut, did my own paperwork, denied every "leaving and coming back" to the immigration officer and stated the hotel did report me.  And that worked.

 

But as I have already said, it left a bad taste in my mouth.  I won't be going back to immigration any time soon!

[50soon]

Don’t go to next door office. They are business and their goal is to squeeze money from you for visa. All you had to do is to enter to the immigration office. Pick up the form. Fill it and make copies at the copy machine. Then you go to the desk where you have usually 2 ladies just in front of entry door . Show them the form and you will get a number. Wait for you call. If any problem just follow instructions from IO. Not from agents who try to charge you extra fee for nothing. Anyway if you don’t like the Thai system you can still go to Vietnam next year :) !! Trust me we are all fed up too with this tm30 !

 

 

 

 

 

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, rastlin said:

I had the feeling that everyone was trying to shake me down for some money.

Yes, sounds like it.

[Pacific Traveler]

Never had a problem ( knock on wood) at the Jomtien IO. But that Legal assistant office next to Immigration is not an honest operation.  For a picture or a copy OK, over priced but convenient.   Don't let them handle your business with immigration or even let them near your paperwork.   I asked them about help with getting my Driver's license and Motorcycle license.  (I have both in the US) They wanted 25,000 bhat each.  Another company in Pattaya helped for only 3000 for both, they were very nice professional and knowledgeable.  That legal office next to Jomtien Immigration is not trustworthy in my opinion.  *****WARNING *****

[Peterw42]

30 minutes ago, Pacific Traveler said:

Never had a problem ( knock on wood) at the Jomtien IO. But that Legal assistant office next to Immigration is not an honest operation.  For a picture or a copy OK, over priced but convenient.   Don't let them handle your business with immigration or even let them near your paperwork.   I asked them about help with getting my Driver's license and Motorcycle license.  (I have both in the US) They wanted 25,000 bhat each.  Another company in Pattaya helped for only 3000 for both, they were very nice professional and knowledgeable.  That legal office next to Jomtien Immigration is not trustworthy in my opinion.  *****WARNING *****

You would be surprised how many people think that office is the immigration office. Old guy in my condo block still thinks it is, he is not sure what the big building next door is, lol.

Thats where some of the ridiculous reports and prices come from.

 

(25k would be the price for not having any exsisting license, not sitting a test etc)

Edited September 14, 2019 by Peterw42

[kinyara]

Even though I'm on a retirement extension that is an interesting report, thanks OP and well handled approach of the situation you faced. I've only ever used that office for copies but the information flow to you is a pretty damning indictment of their business practice. I just wonder if this whole TM30 situation is a convenient temporary revenue earner catching the unaware or unsure to compensate for a downturn in business in other areas. The only way I can think to tighten your case in the OP's situation would be to ask the hotel for a printed copy of their submission of his details to immigration prior to his extension application. Hopefully tourists staying longer than 60 days will be aware of the requirement and not leave themselves open. 

[at15]

16 hours ago, rastlin said:

 

 

According to my hotel, they claim to have reported as required. I asked when I got back to my room.  But do I know this for sure?  No, I suppose I do not. But like I said they copied my passport on check in and that is what they told me.

 

And to be fair to immigration, as I reported I paid 1900 Baht.  There was no fine.  At no point was I ever asked for anything other than that amount, at the very end of the process.  And at least of this writing the hotel has not been fined.  I also asked them that.  

 

But the shop next door told me in no uncertain terms I would have to pay a fine;  I also got that paper I quoted and was told the various things mentioned in my post by the immigration agent, namely "the hotel did not report me" and I did not report when I "left and returned".  This was what I was told by the agent and I have to say it felt like a fine was forthcoming.  But that is just the impression it left with me. In fact there was no fine.

 

Like I said before, the process left a bad taste in my mouth.  I am a *tourist* extending a 60 day tourist Visa legally obtained in my home country.  I stay in a hotel. I do not live here. I am not planning to live here. (And deal with these people every 90 days, no way!)  I am not on any type of long term stay Visa.  So whether or not it was reported when I checked in to the hotel, I just don't see how that should be my problem. 

 

Why should they even bring this matter up to people extending Tourist Visas?  Fine the hotel if something was done wrong, not the dumb (me) tourist who is just here on holiday.  In the future I plan to just stay 60 days.  The 30 extra days of money I would spend on the extension in Thailand I will just spend elsewhere.  I don't plan to go back into immigration any time soon.

 

 

they feel guilty about fining another thai person for something so stupid. so they figure hopefully the rich farang will pay without questioning anything and everyone is happy. non civilized country here so law and order go out the window.  

[USNret]

It sounds like everyone in the food chain, including the copy shop next door, is preying on foreigners confusion & fear to rake in some free money.  They can just randomly say "Landlord didn't file the TM-30" and (1) They may well be right, or (2) Even if they are wrong, you have no way to know definitively that the hotel filed.  Even if the hotel told you they filed, how would you know? 

I would say 8 times out of 10, the muddled farang will pay the "fine" (i.e., graft).  You did the right thing in standing your ground. 

[Peter Denis]

Thank you for sharing this story about what is an obvious scam.  The really worrying thing for me is that it seems that also INSIDE the Immigration Office they are playing along with this scam.

In my opinion we should not just let it go just because Rastlin stood his ground and escaped from the scam.  I am pretty sure that the majority of tourists coming for an extension of stay, would fall into this trap and pay the scam-money.

Possible actions to escalate the matter are:

- Sending several copies of this whole story to the Jomtien Immigration, so that they can investigate (after all Immigration is part of the Thai Police).  Several copies < e-mail / regular mail > to ensure that it reaches the appropriate level;

- Sharing this story with the local press, so that they also can investigate (a nice scoop);

- When no response or interest to investigate from Jomtien Immigration nor local press > inform national Immigration Office.

Would be good if there are ThaiVisa Forum members wtih access to higher Immigration officers, so that they can share this obvious corruption.

Note: I am not living in Jomtien, so would be difficult for me to escalate this further, but I am enraged that this takes place and hope that a TVF member reporting to Jomtien, will take it up!

[WorriedNoodle]

I had a similar bad taste is mouth visiting another Imm Office where I wasn't get a shake down for money but refused service without proof of TM30 that the hotels should have done for me. The IO did say I could 'get out of the problem' by showing them receipts from the hotel as proof 'it wasn't my fault', but I left thinking they could shove it and did nothing.

Edited September 15, 2019 by WorriedNoodle

[rastlin]

40 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Thank you for sharing this story about what is an obvious scam.  The really worrying thing for me is that it seems that also INSIDE the Immigration Office they are playing along with this scam.

In my opinion we should not just let it go just because Rastlin stood his ground and escaped from the scam.  I am pretty sure that the majority of tourists coming for an extension of stay, would fall into this trap and pay the scam-money.

Possible actions to escalate the matter are:

- Sending several copies of this whole story to the Jomtien Immigration, so that they can investigate (after all Immigration is part of the Thai Police).  Several copies < e-mail / regular mail > to ensure that it reaches the appropriate level;

- Sharing this story with the local press, so that they also can investigate (a nice scoop);

- When no response or interest to investigate from Jomtien Immigration nor local press > inform national Immigration Office.

Would be good if there are ThaiVisa Forum members wtih access to higher Immigration officers, so that they can share this obvious corruption.

Note: I am not living in Jomtien, so would be difficult for me to escalate this further, but I am enraged that this takes place and hope that a TVF member reporting to Jomtien, will take it up!

 

 

I have to say that I did not really "stand my ground".  I was prepared to pay the "fine"  if it came down to it.  I am here on a Tourist Visa and my choice would have been either to change my flight and leave a month early or pay 2,000 baht.  The reality is that it would have cost me more to change my air ticket or arrange some sort of a Visa run so I would have just paid  up.  I am no hero.  I was just playing dumb tourist and refused to admit to anything that could be construed as a violation of the rules on my part.  

 

And as I said-I was never asked to pay anything other than the 1900.  So I am not really sure this would be a scoop or something from which an investigation would be fruitful.  After all, the immigration officer could just say I misunderstood the situation as again, at no point was I ever told anything other than 1900 Baht which is the proper fee.  This was at the very end and I was holding my breath as to whether I would have to pay more or even be able to get the 30 day extension.  But I certainly agree it seemed like a scam was in the works especially given what was said to me at the shop next door.  But suspicion is not proof.  Had they asked me to pay a fine and I paid said fine it would be another matter.  I would have made a very big fuss about that.

 

Having said all this, the fact is holders of TOURIST VISAS should not have to deal with this reporting nonsense at all.  Clearly it is the hotel that is required to do reporting on tourists not the tourist themselves. The very form they gave me said as much in that they list the fine for "hotel managers" who do not comply.  My guess is they deal much more with folks who are on other types of Visas as my guess is not a lot of people come to immigration to extend the 60 day Tourist Visa obtained in their home country.  So mostly they are dealing with people who actually do have some sort of obligation to report themselves. 

 

The complaint against how Tourist Visa holders are being treated I think is a very justifiable complaint.  

 

Thanks everyone for all your comments.

[Peter Denis]

1 hour ago, rastlin said:

The complaint against how Tourist Visa holders are being treated I think is a very justifiable complaint.  

 

Thanks everyone for all your comments.

HI rastlin,

You are obviously a smart and very nice person, and everybody should be grateful that you shared your experience so that people are warned of these going-ons.

Obviously - and rightfully so - you do not want to be involved when your story would lead to further investigation.

You are on holidays and should enjoy your stay and not be emersed further.

But let's hope that the story gets picked up.

 

[ukrules]

14 hours ago, rastlin said:

Inside, I was greeted by a Falang worker with a German accent who gave me a run down of various fees.

Only one question remains : Who is this foreigner with a German accent and why is he allowed to continue scamming tourists right next to immigration?

 

Surely immigration know about this so I would have to question who inside the immigration office is working with him.

[50soon]

just say to officers you like to report nice stories to bangkok post or to your youtube channel  .... especially stories  with fines and corruptions.

 

[grollies]

On 9/15/2019 at 6:07 AM, Pacific Traveler said:

Never had a problem ( knock on wood) at the Jomtien IO. But that Legal assistant office next to Immigration is not an honest operation.  For a picture or a copy OK, over priced but convenient.   Don't let them handle your business with immigration or even let them near your paperwork.   I asked them about help with getting my Driver's license and Motorcycle license.  (I have both in the US) They wanted 25,000 bhat each.  Another company in Pattaya helped for only 3000 for both, they were very nice professional and knowledgeable.  That legal office next to Jomtien Immigration is not trustworthy in my opinion.  *****WARNING *****

I was just about to post the same, that place was charging B20,000 (three years ago) for a Thai driving licence.

 

TIT.