Hong Kong protesters hurl petrol bombs at government buildings in latest wave of unrest

[webfact]

Hong Kong protesters hurl petrol bombs at government buildings in latest wave of unrest

By Marius Zaharia and Poppy McPherson

 

An anti-government protester throws back a tear gas canister at the police during a demonstration near Central Government Complex in Hong Kong, China, September 15, 2019. REUTERS/Jorge Silva

 

HONG KONG (Reuters) - Hong Kong police fired water cannon and volleys of tear gas to disperse protesters throwing petrol bombs at government buildings on Sunday, as months of sometimes violent demonstrations showed no sign of letting up.

 

Some protesters threw bricks at police outside the Chinese People's Liberation Army base in the city's Admiralty district, and tore down and set fire to a red banner proclaiming the 70th anniversary on Oct. 1 of the founding of the People's Republic of China, in a direct challenge to Beijing.

 

One water cannon caught fire after being hit by a petrol bomb. The water cannon fired blue jets of water, used elsewhere in the world to help identify protesters later.

 

"Radical protesters are currently occupying Harcourt Road in Admiralty, vandalising Central Government Offices and repeatedly throwing petrol bombs inside," police said in a statement.

 

Protesters in Hong Kong threw bricks at police and Molotov cocktails on Sunday, capping another weekend of violence in the city. Matthew Larotonda reports.

 

Thousands of protesters, many clad in black masks, caps and shades to obscure their identity, raced through the streets of the financial hub in cat-and-mouse tactics with police, setting street fires and blocking roads in the heart of the city.

 

Authorities moved quickly to douse the fires and police fired volleys of tear gas to disperse protesters, including in the bustling shopping and tourist district of Causeway Bay.

 

Violence erupted in the district of Fortress Hill on the east of the island as men in white T-shirts, some wielding rods, clashed with anti-government activists.

 

A heavy police presence could be seen in and around subway stations. Rail operator MTR Corp has become a prime target of vandalism, with activists angry that it closes stations during protests and prevents demonstrators from gathering.

 

Shops in key protest areas once again shuttered early as more than three months of demonstrations continued to take a toll on business.

 

The Airport Authority said on Sunday passenger numbers fell 12.4% year-on-year in August to six million. Protesters last month jammed the airport arrivals hall, leading to cancelled or delayed flights as they sought to draw world attention to their fight for democracy.

 

But while chaotic scenes of protesters clashing with police have been beamed live to the world - at times under gleaming skyscrapers in the heart of the financial centre - life for many in the Chinese-ruled territory proceeds relatively normally.

 

BRITISH CONSULATE RALLY

While the turnout on Sunday was smaller than previous weekends, the unrest underscores the defiance of many activists.

 

Demonstrators are angry about what they see as creeping interference by Beijing in their city's affairs despite a promise of autonomy.

 

The spark for the protests was planned legislation, now withdrawn, that would have allowed people to be sent to mainland China for trial.

 

The protests have since broadened into calls for universal suffrage.

 

Earlier on Sunday, protesters gathered peacefully outside the British Consulate, calling on Britain to rein in China and ensure it respects the city's freedoms.

 

The Sino-British Joint Declaration, signed in 1984, lays out Hong Kong's future after its return to China in 1997, a "one country, two systems" formula that ensures freedoms not enjoyed on the mainland.

 

"Sino-British Joint Declaration is VOID," one placard read in the protest outside the British Consulate.

 

"SOS Hong Kong," read another.

 

"One country, two systems is dead," protesters shouted in English under umbrellas shielding them from the sub-tropical sun, some carrying the colonial flag also bearing the Union Jack. "Free Hong Kong."

 

China says it is committed to the arrangement, denies meddling and says the city is an internal Chinese issue. It has accused foreign powers, particularly the United States and Britain, of fomenting the unrest and told them to mind their own business.

 

Britain says it has a legal responsibility to ensure China abides by the 1984 declaration.

 

Hong Kong island was granted to Britain "in perpetuity" in 1842 at the end of the First Opium War. Kowloon, a peninsula on the mainland opposite Hong Kong island, joined later, after the Second Opium War.

 

The colony was expanded to include the New Territories, to the north of Kowloon, on a 99-year lease, in 1898.

 

Britain returned all of the territory to China, which never recognised the "unequal treaties", in 1997.

 

"The Joint Declaration is a legally binding treaty between the UK and China that remains as valid today as it was when it was signed and ratified over 30 years ago," a British Foreign Office spokeswoman said in June.

 

"As a co-signatory, the UK government will continue to defend our position."

 

But it was not immediately clear what Britain could or would want to do to defend that position.

 

It is pinning its hopes on closer trade and investment cooperation with China, which since 1997 has risen to become the world's second-largest economy, after it leaves the European Union at the end of next month.

 

(Additional reporting by Twinnie Siu, Alun John, Jessie Pang, Jorge Silva, Farah Master and Clare Jim; Writing by Nick Macfie and Anne Marie Roantree; Editing by Robert Birsel, Himani Sarkar and Jan Harvey)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-09-16

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[Tug]

I’m worryed that this is going to get ugly real fast,it’s a shame that currently none of the large democracy’s are standing up for them 

[animalmagic]

It's gone way past ugly and reached HK Endgame or Infinity War; or perhaps Civil War?

The sing-offs in IFC and Amoy Plaza have proved entertaining at first but can only lead to bigger conflicts between the pro Beijing side and the Anti Extradition mob.  I'd guess that various shoe shiners have been winding up the pro Beijing lot to be more visible in showing their love for the Motherland, as has happened with various business entities, and it seems that little thought has been given to the possible outcomes.  It's all made worse as the Police have proved quite liberal in their identification and beatings of troublemakers.  Couple this with the fear of senior police management of being seen as not supporting China and the Demo side could be in for some serious beatings.  This will only lead to mob justice and revenge attacks as each side looks for easy targets to show their strength on; probably pro Beijing types but I wouldn't be surprised to see police patrolling in groups for safety.  And the Triads are always up for a bit of gratuitous violence to demonstrate their loyalty.

People are being radicalized in both directions and the possibility of them returning to a middle ground is diminishing rapidly, especially as the Govt seems completely bereft of ideas and claim that all they have is the Police Force.  So, now we have two radicalized groups trying to win a war whilst the police try win battles, and Carrie 'Nero' Lam fiddles merrily in her Mid Levels Palace saying, 'Woe is me.'  What could possibly go wrong?

[chingmai331]

Some protesters do bring big headlines and Utube videos.  Most walking the streets of Central in HK protest marches are very ordinary people, old and young, requesting china live to its agreements of 20 yrs ago: full voting for the people.

Even Trump got this correct; most folks, everywhere, want a voice in their government thru the vote.

Impossible for china to give voting rights to any chinese person. To do so would crush the commie party and all the high-end perks afforded the self-appointed  'cadres'. 

[Isaan sailor]

Gotta root for the HK protesters.  We have a common enemy here in LoS.

[Morch]

5 hours ago, Tug said:

I’m worryed that this is going to get ugly real fast,it’s a shame that currently none of the large democracy’s are standing up for them 

 

Standing up to them how, exactly? And on what grounds?

 

It's not that I don't sympathize with the protesters, just being realistic regarding the prospects of effective international involvement or the justification for it. Other than statements, the international community didn't do a whole lot for the Uighur either.

[DrTuner]

Two week to go to October 1. Beijing will likely make their move before that and yes there'll be blood, international condemnation and then nothing, China will just roll over as they have planned for years now. If I was a Hong Konger I'd execute a get the hell out of dodge right now. 

[JemJem]

12 hours ago, animalmagic said:

It's gone way past ugly and reached HK Endgame or Infinity War; or perhaps Civil War?

The sing-offs in IFC and Amoy Plaza have proved entertaining at first but can only lead to bigger conflicts between the pro Beijing side and the Anti Extradition mob.  I'd guess that various shoe shiners have been winding up the pro Beijing lot to be more visible in showing their love for the Motherland, as has happened with various business entities, and it seems that little thought has been given to the possible outcomes.  It's all made worse as the Police have proved quite liberal in their identification and beatings of troublemakers.  Couple this with the fear of senior police management of being seen as not supporting China and the Demo side could be in for some serious beatings.  This will only lead to mob justice and revenge attacks as each side looks for easy targets to show their strength on; probably pro Beijing types but I wouldn't be surprised to see police patrolling in groups for safety.  And the Triads are always up for a bit of gratuitous violence to demonstrate their loyalty.

People are being radicalized in both directions and the possibility of them returning to a middle ground is diminishing rapidly, especially as the Govt seems completely bereft of ideas and claim that all they have is the Police Force.  So, now we have two radicalized groups trying to win a war whilst the police try win battles, and Carrie 'Nero' Lam fiddles merrily in her Mid Levels Palace saying, 'Woe is me.'  What could possibly go wrong?

A couple of weeks or so back, I had thought that it was a matter of days/weeks before China interfered with its mainland security forces. Now I am not too sure about that.

 

Now I think that it is likely that this stuff will go on (at various levels of violence, but nothing TOO violent), and then a couple of months or so later, it will virtually end.

[animalmagic]

37 minutes ago, JemJem said:

A couple of weeks or so back, I had thought that it was a matter of days/weeks before China interfered with its mainland security forces. Now I am not too sure about that.

 

Now I think that it is likely that this stuff will go on (at various levels of violence, but nothing TOO violent), and then a couple of months or so later, it will virtually end.

Quite possible, but if the violence on the streets between the demonstrators and Beijing supporters intensifies I think it is highly likely that China will physically intervene and not just rely on the pressure they are putting on various business interests and individuals to speak out against the demonstrators on their behalf.  The Junior Police Officers Association of the police have already said they should be allowed to shoot people throwing petrol bombs so I feel it is more likely that the violence will escalate.  This appears counterproductive as it seems that only a political solution can stop the cycle of violence.

The demonstrators are trying to win a war while the police are trying to win battles.  Even if everything settles down you will have an entire generation, or two, of HK people who no longer trust the police.

[Morch]

8 hours ago, rhyddid said:

How the protesters get financed, follow the money and will find who really behind these mad protesters.

 

Because protests are always centrally financed. Or even just financed. And because there's always some nefarious "who" behind it all. Protestors are all obviously "mad".

[surangw]

bloodshed soon when chinese officials think they  are losing face?

 

[Selatan]

1 hour ago, JemJem said:

A couple of weeks or so back, I had thought that it was a matter of days/weeks before China interfered with its mainland security forces. Now I am not too sure about that.

 

Now I think that it is likely that this stuff will go on (at various levels of violence, but nothing TOO violent), and then a couple of months or so later, it will virtually end.

It would probably ends on 11 Jan, 2020,  the Taiwanese Presidential Election day. China would endure the riots to try to help the Kuomintang candidate to win.

[Traubert]

On 9/16/2019 at 9:11 AM, chingmai331 said:

Some protesters do bring big headlines and Utube videos.  Most walking the streets of Central in HK protest marches are very ordinary people, old and young, requesting china live to its agreements of 20 yrs ago: full voting for the people.

Even Trump got this correct; most folks, everywhere, want a voice in their government thru the vote.

Impossible for china to give voting rights to any chinese person. To do so would crush the commie party and all the high-end perks afforded the self-appointed  'cadres'. 

There was never an agreement for universal suffrage. Only the system they have now was agreed.

[tonbridgebrit]

On 9/16/2019 at 5:22 AM, Morch said:

 

Standing up to them how, exactly? And on what grounds?

 

It's not that I don't sympathize with the protesters, just being realistic regarding the prospects of effective international involvement or the justification for it. Other than statements, the international community didn't do a whole lot for the Uighur either.

Morch, I'm agreeing with some of the sentances you've put up on this post !!!!    ????

Standing up to China ? How ?  Planet earth can do zero right now.  America is already slapping tariffs onto the Chinese goods entering America. And slapping on the tariffs, it's got nothing to do with Hong Kong. And now, because of Hong Kong, punish China by slapping more tariffs on the Chinese goods ? That would be mad.
What about Europe ? Is Europe going to start a trade war with China, because of Hong Kong ? Off-course not, it would be absurd to hit trade wth China, because of Hong Kong.

And on what grounds ? There are no grounds whatsover for planet earth to take action against China, because of Hong Kong. Any country that takes action against China (a reduction in trade with China, or whatever other action) is going to look absurd. The stuff that's happening in Hong Kong ? If action is to be taken against China, then, action is going to have to be taken against a load of other countries. Other countries that have done the same, or more serious, than what China has done in Hong Kong.

By the way, the demonstrators have thrown petrol bombs and bricks, and not one of them has died, so far. In other countries, if petrol bombs and bricks are thrown, that's called a riot, people might die. And in Hong Kong, the international media are totally free to cover the strory. Note that the international media are not free to turn up at all places where there are demonstrations/riots. China has continued to allow the BBC and nearly all other media outlets to be in Hong Kong, and cover the story.

[Morch]

3 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Morch, I'm agreeing with some of the sentances you've put up on this post !!!!    ????

Standing up to China ? How ?  Planet earth can do zero right now.  America is already slapping tariffs onto the Chinese goods entering America. And slapping on the tariffs, it's got nothing to do with Hong Kong. And now, because of Hong Kong, punish China by slapping more tariffs on the Chinese goods ? That would be mad.
What about Europe ? Is Europe going to start a trade war with China, because of Hong Kong ? Off-course not, it would be absurd to hit trade wth China, because of Hong Kong.

And on what grounds ? There are no grounds whatsover for planet earth to take action against China, because of Hong Kong. Any country that takes action against China (a reduction in trade with China, or whatever other action) is going to look absurd. The stuff that's happening in Hong Kong ? If action is to be taken against China, then, action is going to have to be taken against a load of other countries. Other countries that have done the same, or more serious, than what China has done in Hong Kong.

By the way, the demonstrators have thrown petrol bombs and bricks, and not one of them has died, so far. In other countries, if petrol bombs and bricks are thrown, that's called a riot, people might die. And in Hong Kong, the international media are totally free to cover the strory. Note that the international media are not free to turn up at all places where there are demonstrations/riots. China has continued to allow the BBC and nearly all other media outlets to be in Hong Kong, and cover the story.

 

The difference is that you are gloating. You're perfectly alright with seeing more people being brought under China's tight rule. The sad fact is that no one is unlikely to effectively intervene on HK's people behalf. That's an observation, which you choose to celebrate.

 

Considering the number of posts you've made calling "the world" to do this or that, the above position is peculiar. Or were your previous posts deceptive?

 

Yes. No protestors died so far (as far as I'm aware). Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out? You can't (well, you obviously try) have the cake and eat it too - decide which argument you're making.

 

[Traubert]

2 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The difference is that you are gloating. You're perfectly alright with seeing more people being brought under China's tight rule. The sad fact is that no one is unlikely to effectively intervene on HK's people behalf. That's an observation, which you choose to celebrate.

 

Considering the number of posts you've made calling "the world" to do this or that, the above position is peculiar. Or were your previous posts deceptive?

 

Yes. No protestors died so far (as far as I'm aware). Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out? You can't (well, you obviously try) have the cake and eat it too - decide which argument you're making.

 

They are fully under China's control untimately through the National People's Congress. Thats the body that drew up the Basic Law as signed off by Britain.

[Morch]

3 minutes ago, Traubert said:

They are fully under China's control untimately through the National People's Congress. Thats the body that drew up the Basic Law as signed off by Britain.

 

Spin away. Play those word games. I don't think your misunderstood my comment. I doubt the protestors see things the way you put them.

 

 

[StreetCowboy]

2 minutes ago, Traubert said:

They are fully under China's control untimately through the National People's Congress. Thats the body that drew up the Basic Law as signed off by Britain.

They’re under local control. That is the essence of the Basic Law.  

 

China has done vey well staying out of the troubles, and they know full-well that if they intervene directly, they will have lost, Hong Kong will have lost, and no-one will have won.

I don’t know what the protesters hope to achieve now. 

 

I think PRC would rather destroy HK than accede to secession, as a warning to Taiwan. In my opinion, the demonstrators would be better yielding a bit of face to the HKPolice to make sure it stays local.  If HK cannot control itself, then everyone loses

[Selatan]

4 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

They’re under local control. That is the essence of the Basic Law.  

 

China has done vey well staying out of the troubles, and they know full-well that if they intervene directly, they will have lost, Hong Kong will have lost, and no-one will have won.

I don’t know what the protesters hope to achieve now. 

 

I think PRC would rather destroy HK than accede to secession, as a warning to Taiwan. In my opinion, the demonstrators would be better yielding a bit of face to the HKPolice to make sure it stays local.  If HK cannot control itself, then everyone loses

PRC could just let Hong Kong degenerate to become a much larger version of the Kowloon Walled City, known for its lawlessness for decades until it was demolished in 1994.

[bendejo]

I suspect PRC provocateurs among the protesters.

 

 

[tonbridgebrit]

10 hours ago, Morch said:

 

The difference is that you are gloating. You're perfectly alright with seeing more people being brought under China's tight rule. The sad fact is that no one is unlikely to effectively intervene on HK's people behalf. That's an observation, which you choose to celebrate.

 

Considering the number of posts you've made calling "the world" to do this or that, the above position is peculiar. Or were your previous posts deceptive?

 

Yes. No protestors died so far (as far as I'm aware). Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out? You can't (well, you obviously try) have the cake and eat it too - decide which argument you're making.

 

"Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out ?"  .

Okay, if these demonstrations/riots were taking place in China, the Chinese government would not allow it to happen. It would not be tolerated, as soon as it happens, riot police would move in and clear/arrest as many of them as possible.

So, that's China. What about Hong Kong ? These demonstrations have disrupted traffic in Hong Kong, and they've caused a big reduction in the number of tourists entering Hong Kong. When are the rioters going to stop ?

Why has Beijing tolerated this ?
Because if Beijing did carry out a crackdown, if Beijing gives orders for mass arrests, detain people, have some of them transported to China if there isn't enough space in detention centres in Hong Kong, if Beijing does this, it will end the riots, but it will make Beijing 'look bad' on the world's media. That's why Beijing has not ordered a mass crackdown.

So, we are seeing a situation where the riots will continue. Beijing is not going to take the bait, Beijing is not going to make the mistake of ending the riots very quickly in a forceful way. The riots will continue. Tourists will continue to avoid Hong Kong, foreign companies might pull out of Hong Kong because their operations are being disrupted by the riots. A lot of foreign companies have a major office in Hong Kong, but they still make a lot of revenue from China. They might simply close their Hong Kong office down, and relocate the office to, to, to China itself. Remember, the reason for closing down their Hong Kong office is not because China won't grant democracy to Hong Kong, it's because the riots are disrupting their operations.


And all this, the riots, they will continue, because Beijing won't crack-down hard, because we all know that the international media will make Beijing look bad if a strong crack-down takes place.
I'm only trying to say, allowing these riots to continue, it's harming Hong Kong.

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, bendejo said:

I suspect PRC provocateurs among the protesters.

 

 

What, the men we see who are preparing petrol bombs, and they're tearing roads up to get bricks and stones, they want to throw stuff at the police. These men are PRC provocateurs among the protesters ?
Surely not ?

[jerojero]

So much for peaceful protest. Always minority of violent supporters (offenders) take over with extreme behavior. Brings down the legitimacy of thei! protest and message is lost. Media covers the violence and parks the issues that sparked original peaceful demonstrations. Sad.

[Morch]

4 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

"Now if they tried the same thing while fully under China's control, how would that work out ?"  .

Okay, if these demonstrations/riots were taking place in China, the Chinese government would not allow it to happen. It would not be tolerated, as soon as it happens, riot police would move in and clear/arrest as many of them as possible.

So, that's China. What about Hong Kong ? These demonstrations have disrupted traffic in Hong Kong, and they've caused a big reduction in the number of tourists entering Hong Kong. When are the rioters going to stop ?

Why has Beijing tolerated this ?
Because if Beijing did carry out a crackdown, if Beijing gives orders for mass arrests, detain people, have some of them transported to China if there isn't enough space in detention centres in Hong Kong, if Beijing does this, it will end the riots, but it will make Beijing 'look bad' on the world's media. That's why Beijing has not ordered a mass crackdown.

So, we are seeing a situation where the riots will continue. Beijing is not going to take the bait, Beijing is not going to make the mistake of ending the riots very quickly in a forceful way. The riots will continue. Tourists will continue to avoid Hong Kong, foreign companies might pull out of Hong Kong because their operations are being disrupted by the riots. A lot of foreign companies have a major office in Hong Kong, but they still make a lot of revenue from China. They might simply close their Hong Kong office down, and relocate the office to, to, to China itself. Remember, the reason for closing down their Hong Kong office is not because China won't grant democracy to Hong Kong, it's because the riots are disrupting their operations.


And all this, the riots, they will continue, because Beijing won't crack-down hard, because we all know that the international media will make Beijing look bad if a strong crack-down takes place.
I'm only trying to say, allowing these riots to continue, it's harming Hong Kong.

 

Yawn.

 

Does the Chinese government allow protests and demonstrations, in general? Even non-violent ones? I get it you'll now harp on the violence bit - but worth bearing in mind it took quite a while to become a major feature.

 

As for your repeated faux expressions of "concern" for the effects of the protests on HK's economy - give it a rest. Neither believable nor relevant.

 

What China will or will not do in the future, remains to be seen. I don't think you actually have any inside track on such matters. But, of course, if China was to step in and stop the protests - you'd be out here explaining how it's the bestest policy ever and the most righteous thing to do.

 

 

[Morch]

4 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

What, the men we see who are preparing petrol bombs, and they're tearing roads up to get bricks and stones, they want to throw stuff at the police. These men are PRC provocateurs among the protesters ?
Surely not ?

 

You had no issues with posts alleging foreign involvement in directing protests or inciting violence.

 

[Salerno]

13 minutes ago, Morch said:

I don't think you actually have any inside track on such matters.

True; low level propagandists aren't read in to that level.

[Traubert]

11 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

They’re under local control. That is the essence of the Basic Law.  

 

China has done vey well staying out of the troubles, and they know full-well that if they intervene directly, they will have lost, Hong Kong will have lost, and no-one will have won.

I don’t know what the protesters hope to achieve now. 

 

I think PRC would rather destroy HK than accede to secession, as a warning to Taiwan. In my opinion, the demonstrators would be better yielding a bit of face to the HKPolice to make sure it stays local.  If HK cannot control itself, then everyone loses

True until they aren't. You might recall what happened when the disqualified candidates were banned from office. The HK Judiciary called in the NPC for the ultimate interpretation of the Basic Law.

 

It wont happen but Lam can always call on Beijing if she feels the need. It is a Chinese province when all is said and done.

[DrTuner]

11 hours ago, Selatan said:

PRC could just let Hong Kong degenerate to become a much larger version of the Kowloon Walled City, known for its lawlessness for decades until it was demolished in 1994.

Some of the New Territories near Lantau look similar. The mistake Brits did as to take a lease on them, no idea why. When the lease ran out they buggered off from the whole thing creating the current mess in their wake.

 

BTW there's a very interesting doc in youtube about the Walled City in youtube, those were the days of "Made in Hong Kong" low quality toys.

[sanemax]

12 hours ago, DrTuner said:

The mistake Brits did as to take a lease on them, no idea why.

You could do a websearch and find out why

[DrTuner]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

You could do a websearch and find out why

I'll levae that as homework for the Roman emperors around here that like to google.