Group representing European businesses in Thailand calls for TM.30 and TM.28 to be abolished

[emptypockets]

7 hours ago, balo said:

It doesn't matter if you're a good guy or a bad guy, if you pay the fines nothing will happen to you, they are not going to arrest you. 800 , 1600 or even 5000 baht , most people can afford the fines. 

And they may not grant you your extension of stay that you are applying for. Could conceivably seen as non compliance with the terms of you visa/extension. Then bye bye!

[emptypockets]

6 hours ago, ChipButty said:

Why pay the fines? If we all refused to play their games what they going to do kick us all out? 

Possibly. Thailand won't miss you.

Or the rental market will be non existent for farang if they chase the landlord. Either way you won't be here.

For the married guys....you will be paying the wife's fine if it comes to that.

Two possible results….you pay or you leave eventually.

 

Personally I think by giving airspace to the TM30 issue will make certain people dig their heels in even deeper. It will die a natural death if the focus is taken off it.

 

The ONLY way for it to disappear completely is when Thai businesses complain. To date the only reports have been from complaints for foreign business associations. 

[emptypockets]

5 hours ago, Almer said:

Ok stop stop stop we are all in the same swamp which is why it is easy to see the tourism issues the thai's have, but it is only we that can see or others se but prefer to bury there heads in the sand

Err no we are not. 39 million tourist don't have an issues with any Thai officialdom. Perhaps 100,000 or so long term (12 months at a time) stayers...aka retirees or those married to a Thai have issues. 

[emptypockets]

5 hours ago, DrTuner said:

They are listening to money. The free trade agreement is wisely being used as leverage. Crank it to the max and go for the jugular, meaning open up the PR route. I don't care if it's for EU citizens only, I'm selfish enough to take it ????

Nonsense...look at the FTA between Australia and Thailand. That's why good Aussie wine is so expensive in Thailand. No such as free trade - its always got conditions.

[emptypockets]

4 hours ago, nrasmussen said:

8 hours ago, zydeco said:

Majority of expats are from UK, US, Australia. And those are the countries effected.

They are actually a rather small minority - 5 % or so.

Imagine 2,000,000 Burmese doing TM30's

[Almer]

17 minutes ago, emptypockets said:

Err no we are not. 39 million tourist don't have an issues with any Thai officialdom. Perhaps 100,000 or so long term (12 months at a time) stayers...aka retirees or those married to a Thai have issues. 

We meaning the posters on TVF, the 39 million either don't use TVF 

[asean]

The most wrong thing about the TM30 is that the foreigner ends up paying the penalty for something that is the Thai landlord's sole responsibility. At immigration now foreigners are paying the fines for Thai landlords. How F@@ked up is that ? This is the issue that should be raised with immigration. Why are they making foreigners pay penalties caused by the wrongdoing of Thais?

[Boombum]

Is it Actually a THAI idea Or an USA  Dictating To know where their Slaves are at any moment ?? 

[Chazar]

10 hours ago, Artisi said:

Control of this nature is lack of intelligence - - - 

but  still control.

[lamyai3]

1 hour ago, asean said:

The most wrong thing about the TM30 is that the foreigner ends up paying the penalty for something that is the Thai landlord's sole responsibility. At immigration now foreigners are paying the fines for Thai landlords. How F@@ked up is that ? This is the issue that should be raised with immigration. Why are they making foreigners pay penalties caused by the wrongdoing of Thais?

While this is undeniably true, taking a hard line in enforcing the law on landlords would make things much worse for foreigners than they are now. Expect dual rent pricing and admin fees from those who do still agree to rent to foreigners.

 

Or alternatively, just go back to not enforcing the law, they've had 40 years of practice. They've whipped up an enormous problem for themselves and the solution is obvious, but owing to the rich pickings from the quasi-legal fines they're charging it seems they're finding it hard to stomach any solution that involves getting rid of the reporting. Not to mention this level of surveillance is like a wet dream for a military regime that thrives on crackdowns and control measures. 

[SuburbanOne]

17 hours ago, darksidedog said:

It seems everyone and their dog are now on the case. Now all we need to do is hope the Thais are listening and paying attention.

if there planning to Abolish a TM 30 program that is 40 years old then they should get rid of the 800,000 for Retirement and the 400,000 Marriage Visa to be able to stay in Thailand as this Law went in to effect Jan 1, 2019 and i myself told a CW Inspector who wanted to argue with me as i run a International ecommerce Business and i use ecommerce banking ONLY and I refuse to use a Thai Bank to deposit a certain amount of money in just to let it rot away and it can not be even invested in to the Thailand Stock Market as i told the Inspector if they look at what they have done since Jan 1, 2019 they have destroyed the Tourism area with there ideas and now its cost them big for the year with no signs of recovery as Phuket and Pattaya are already hurting in tourism and Bangkok is going to be in the same direction as officials will say oh it does not matter but when layoff's occur then they will realize its too late when more expenses are being shelled out then what immigration is taking in for Visa's for Retirement or Marriage visa i think they should just be happy the people who are in Thailand as foregnors they should just let them be if they want to buy a Home or Car then they deal with the Bank to buy a Home or a Car dealer to buy a Card i since day one of immigration saying the 800,000 for retirement or 400,000 for marriage to a Thai Visa i think if the Lawyers who worked for the foregnors regarding the TM 30 and we all grouped together with a conference with immigration i surely would be there to speak my words whether they understand english or not as they tried to pull this excuse with me at CW on this past Monday io told the officials when they said oh i do not understand English i said then go back to school as English is the Most recognized Language of the World if any of the Lawyers who worked on the TM 30 that spoke here on Thaivisa would like to contact me then send me a message as i am willing to stand up against immigration on this 800,000 retirement or 400,000 for marriage visa they need us to help there economy its not the other way around and they should realize what a mess they have caused in many areas since Jan 1 , 2019 Regarding Visa besides this TM 30 Disaster all areas for Foregnors all Need to be discussed and Looked at i think many on Retirement or Marriage Visa would speak up more then the TM 30 Conference with immigration that became a Instant Failure who here is willing to Back this up as I am speaking out and looking for others to join me i think this issue we can win as well if the other issues are being abolished why have money just sit and it can not be invested or anything most people like to see there money grow not just sit like a Rock in a Corner and forgotten about  no Thai in another country if they were told to do this they would not do it either (Take Note the Inspector at CW was the Person i was redirected to as the first visa official already could tell i was Hot on this issue and i told my wife if Thai Immigration was saying anything to her to not respond as to let me speak ONLY and this is what my wife did it was a arguement that immigration really could not win with me on monday and i told them in life there is no guarantees either just cause they Demand does notr mean there going to get it there way from everyone as i have been in Business 19 years aND I AM NOT GOING TO CHANGE FOR THEM AS THERE ARE LESSONS'S for immigration to still learn from there earlier in the year mistakes the economy is a mess Tourism is like flushed in to a Toilet as well  with no signs of any real Positive Recovery in Site before 2020 arrives

[wisperone]

I see a future save face headline.... "TM30 too confusing for foreigners to figure out"...

[ericthai]

14 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Exactly the same. I used to do a fair few weekends away every year, but currently I am not planning one at all and will save the money for my holidays abroad. I am not bothering now with a golf trip in the October half term or the Phuket footy tournament in November solely because of TM30. 

 

This is just me, but I can vouch for another 5 - 10 friends and colleagues who have said the exact same thing. 

really?  I really dont understand how this really effects anyone.  If youre going on a golf trip I assume you stay at a hotel so the hotel takes care of the TM30 and when you return home depending where you live either you file one or not. You're going to stop living your life because of this? 

[lamyai3]

2 hours ago, SuburbanOne said:

it was a arguement that immigration really could not win

If you speak like you write they probably couldn't get a word in edgeways. The 800k / 400k has been around for close to two decades, and for the most part getting an extension hasn't changed during that time, other than the scrapping of income letters for some countries in the past year. If these rules get subjected to further changes (which may well happen) it will be for the worse, not for the better. 

[berrec]

Interesting post on many fronts, I think one or two OPs hit it right on the head, logic and intelligence.

 

Generally lacking in the Thai culture, especially notable in government here where they go to get a job because they cannot cut it in private industry.

 

So don't look for anything that the Thais' do that we inquiring Farangs see as totally illogical; it is what it is, Thai style.

 

As they say S* happens, especially here in Thailand (lots of it) where thought processes lack any real substance of intellect.

 

And as they say S* flows downhill from the Thai masters (braindead) to the peasants and pushed onto us pesky Farangs. 

[BobbyL]

3 hours ago, ericthai said:

really?  I really dont understand how this really effects anyone.  If youre going on a golf trip I assume you stay at a hotel so the hotel takes care of the TM30 and when you return home depending where you live either you file one or not. You're going to stop living your life because of this? 

Like many others, I can't take a Monday off work to spend half the day at CW. If I wasn't working then it wouldn't be an issue. My landlord lives in Dubai and isn't Thai so has no interest in registering for this website / app. 

 

The 800b fine isn't a lot, but for me it is the principal of it. Having to pay these shysters money for a weekend away is outrageous when they already have my address on my Visa, WP, TM6, driving licence and car registration. 

 

Rather than going away for the golf we are just going to play at two new courses near Bangkok on the Saturday and Sunday. 

[pookondee]

7 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

If you speak like you write they probably couldn't get a word in edgeways. The 800k / 400k has been around for close to two decades, and for the most part getting an extension hasn't changed during that time, other than the scrapping of income letters for some countries in the past year. If these rules get subjected to further changes (which may well happen) it will be for the worse, not for the better. 

id bet a yee-sip he is Swedish

????

[ThomasThBKK]

4 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Like many others, I can't take a Monday off work to spend half the day at CW. If I wasn't working then it wouldn't be an issue. My landlord lives in Dubai and isn't Thai so has no interest in registering for this website / app. 

 

The 800b fine isn't a lot, but for me it is the principal of it. Having to pay these shysters money for a weekend away is outrageous when they already have my address on my Visa, WP, TM6, driving licence and car registration. 

 

Rather than going away for the golf we are just going to play at two new courses near Bangkok on the Saturday and Sunday. 

hope you are aware that you have to pay witholding tax to the thai revenue authority monthly, with a non thai landlord non living in thailand it's you responsibility to make sure his tax is paid.

[Max Brok]

I am not living in Thailand but spend a lot of times in Koh Samui as tourist and in isaan for vissiting family. As a tourist there is no problem at all. But... as soon I am in isaan and I need something to be done with documents or family issues it starts with tea money. I found out that in my village they have one headman who have a few sub headmen for so called other Moo's. When you need them you have to pay. And you need them for everything. For selling Sor Por Kor land, which is illegal, for signing as whitness I am married, I was married outside Thailand???, to get a house number( not build yet), to get water connection etc. In Townhall I have to use 2 whitnesses and the volunteers, 2 officers, also 50 baht fixed price. For getting a bank acount proof of residence plus headman 500 baht etc. etc.

I asked my wife (she lives already 20 years in The Netherlands) about this and she says this is normal and is and was from all times. She defend those people because their salary is low and to become a headman costs a lot of money ( buying votes).

This tea money sits in the roots of the community I believe, nobody will fight against it. 

Will never change I believe as long it is topdown in the government

[Almer]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

hope you are aware that you have to pay witholding tax to the thai revenue authority monthly, with a non thai landlord non living in thailand it's you responsibility to make sure his tax is paid.

Ouchy

[DrTuner]

2 hours ago, ThomasThBKK said:

hope you are aware that you have to pay witholding tax to the thai revenue authority monthly, with a non thai landlord non living in thailand it's you responsibility to make sure his tax is paid.

Ugh. I probably should've done this when I had a rental in BKK for work. What a true pain in the <deleted>. I'm pretty sure no tax or TM30's were done whatsever. Would've been fun for the landlord and my wife to do it every Monday, as I commuted BKK-Pattaya for 2 1/2 years every weekend.

[KhunFred]

Another call for improvement that will likely be ignored. No farang opinion has any validity to the Thai way of thinking.

[Stargeezr]

When visiting Europe or North America, does visitors need to report like this

3rd world country?

 

[Stargeezr]

  When visiting Europe or North America, does any visitors need to report

during their visit?  Just wondering why this 3rd world country needs this

or any forms?

Geezer

[BobbyL]

Just now, Stargrazer9889 said:

When visiting Europe or North America, does visitors need to report like this

3rd world country?

 

Of course not. This system is North Korea esque dated from the 70s. When my wife lived in England she had to report once in two years, I probably have reported 6 - 7 times in the last two years here (annual visa renewal, 90 day reports, TM30). 

[Almer]

On 9/20/2019 at 7:19 AM, Stargrazer9889 said:

  When visiting Europe or North America, does any visitors need to report

during their visit?  Just wondering why this 3rd world country needs this

or any forms?

Geezer

Nervous comes to mind, but why, who would sell up move all there hard earned dosh here and then cause trouble and get black listed, here there is not good monitoring and thus causes are  hosts to over react.

With all the modern surveillance and security at airports etc constant reporting bogs IO down, they would have a lot more time doing meaningful checks instead registering us all back home safe  when we have all been to  Buriram for the weekend Moto GP.