Lack of European visitors the cause of Thailand's tourism woes, says hotelier

[LomSak27]

18 hours ago, webfact said:

Thaivisa notes that Voice TV is noted for its liberal stance and politcal-centric analysis that has often caused it to run foul of the Thai authorities.

 

Ahh so this is an unpopular news item with the powers that be, that is most likely censored or claimed the owner is  --------- with the news. Why doesn't that suprise me?! Well they need to do something. Why not a 5 year program to encourage euro tourists?? This means you need to change the slant in the news media - S & M online    and TV and radio hosts and what they SAY !! 

 

After twenty years as using them (westerners) as a scapegoat that is going to be hard to change gears, but no time like the present to start, as this will not be cured in just a year or two.

 

Good Luck

 

 

[donnacha]

@Mike Teavee's comparison of Pattaya and Davao may strike some as bizarre - they are very different cities - but, honestly, if I was looking to have a wild time, the regular girls you meet in the handful of nightclubs in Davao deliver a far more exhilarating experience than the clapped-out, jaded hookers in Pattaya.

I know, on the surface Davao looks pretty boring but, this is what I am saying, you somehow end up having a far better time on a far lower budget, and it is a more genuine experience, you don't ended up feeling like an ATM that has had a truck slammed into it. 
 

[Dexlowe]

9 minutes ago, donnacha said:

The Philippines is not Thailand but, really, it ...........

A great summation of how things are in Thailand today. 

[chang1]

16 hours ago, MartinKal said:

Not only are ex pat residents leaving permanently, they become very negative ambassadors for Thailand.

 

Thailand needs all the help it can get. This starts with making its small but influential and largely supportive foreign resident population feel welcome.

 

FEEL WELCOME

 

IF YOU WANT POSITIVE REVIEWS, EXTEND A WELCOME TO THE REVIEWERS.

 

I am very very surprised at the treatment reserved for ex pats in Thailand. Very surprised indeed.

This is something Thailand really needs to start taking far more seriously. Word of mouth is the best advertising there is and it's free. Unfortunately it can also work the other way if people aren't happy. I have been visiting since 2000 for 1 to 4 months a year. For the first 5 years I raved about amazing Thailand and encouraged people to come. Next 5 years I was neutral and after that I have since told everyone don't bother, there are better places now. The worst thing for me is it has turned into Spain. As soon as the backpackers were made unwelcome and the miserable, boring 2 week holiday makers arrived the fun and interest disappeared. Thais greed and the pound tanking have only compounded the decline. Why travel 6000 miles for what is within driving distance from home? My answer is family but I now split my time with other surrounding countries before they go the same way.

[Damrongsak]

17 hours ago, BobbyL said:

They've milked it for years, but now their time has passed. Over the last decade the TAT et al have done nothing to improve the tourism industry here. 

 

Thailand has had the halcyon days of the 80s, 90s and even early 00s when every Tom, Dick and Harry wanted to come here. 

 

It isn't an attractive destination like it used to be, and one thing Thailand will always now struggle with is returning tourists. Once you've been here once it doesn't offer anything different.

Thailand had a charm , maybe 40 years or more years ago.  It was OK when I was there 1977-1980. A buddy of mine wrote the Lonely Planet guide book to Thailand in the early 80's.  Downhill ever since, I think.

[BritManToo]

10 hours ago, Wongkitlo said:

Is that multi entry based on marriage or just over 50 based on retirement? My friend told me I can just leave before 90 days is up and start again but haven't read much about it. Do you need to pay for a new visa every time? Do you need financial proof.

Mainly singles for looking after my kid.

No financials required in Laos or Vietnam.

Bank statements required in other countries.

[Paul Henry]

Until Thailand starts quoting real numbers of tourists,overnight change of flights, business visits and visa runs etc the country has absolutely no idea of real tourist numbers. Keep making up rosy numbers while the tourist industry goes down the drain.

[BritManToo]

52 minutes ago, donnacha said:

The Filipinos are crazy too, but in a distinctly different way. Yes, of course, some will lie, some will cheat, but what I have sensed over the years is that most Filipinos accept and respect us. They are, I believe, open to us in a way that the Thais can never quite be. Perhaps the fact that their English is so much better contributes to that, or perhaps their poverty makes a western friend more valuable, but I think it is something deeper, something rooted in their turbulent colonial history.

Filipino men are quite friendly to foreigners, a very different attitude from Thai men.

[donnacha]

Just now, BritManToo said:

Filipino men are quite friendly to foreigners, a very different attitude from Thai men.

Yeah, absolutely. That's something I really enjoy when I'm there. Not something you'd imagine would be important, but it is somehow.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

18 hours ago, mok199 said:

Apparently ToT is awarding 50 bt cash to every European and or westerener on arrival .

I'd prefer the free sticky rice and mango they gave to the Chinese not long ago.

 

40 years ago, I thought I'd retire in Thailand.  These days, I'm not wild about even visiting for a few months.  Although I do have a lifetime motorcycle driver's license, so maybe I could hook up with Hell's Angels and have a good time.

[mikebell]

18 hours ago, simon43 said:

Having moved 1 month ago from Thailand to Luang Prabang (Laos), Hanoi is just a 90 minute direct flight away, ideal for weekend trips, and no need to do a TM30 on my return ????

What is it like?  I liked Vientiane; good affordable coffee.  I've heard Luang is a party town but the ladies don't play?

[ChipButty]

13 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

Filipino men are quite friendly to foreigners, a very different attitude from Thai men.

I also found the same but I wish they would stop calling me Sir 

[Aussie Jo]

1st - the strong Thai baht is NOT helping the situation.

 

2nd - Thailand is NOT cheap anymore. If you live here you will eat 40 baht noodles off the street but visitors don't!

 

3rd - high taxes mean that buying/shopping is also expensive. I can buy Nike/Adidas runners cheaper in the USA/Australia. 

 

4th - foreigners still believe that the Thai Govt is a military run Govt (which it is)

 

5th - TM30's which although doesn't affect short term visitors prevents us long term people from travelling.

 

My fear is that the Land of Smiles will NOT recover from this downturn even though TAT feeds us <deleted> that visitor numbers are up (maybe all the Chinese that come here and don't spend a cent).

[ChipButty]

1 minute ago, Aussie Jo said:

1st - the strong Thai baht is NOT helping the situation.

 

2nd - Thailand is NOT cheap anymore. If you live here you will eat 40 baht noodles off the street but visitors don't!

 

3rd - high taxes mean that buying/shopping is also expensive. I can buy Nike/Adidas runners cheaper in the USA/Australia. 

 

4th - foreigners still believe that the Thai Govt is a military run Govt (which it is)

 

5th - TM30's which although doesn't affect short term visitors prevents us long term people from travelling.

 

My fear is that the Land of Smiles will NOT recover from this downturn even though TAT feeds us <deleted> that visitor numbers are up (maybe all the Chinese that come here and don't spend a cent).

Add the Indians to that list arguing over 20 baht with a tuk tuk driver the other night

[ICELANDMAN]

31 minutes ago, donnacha said:

Yeah, absolutely. That's something I really enjoy when I'm there. Not something you'd imagine would be important, but it is somehow.

 

 

Everyone talks about his own experiences, for me the Filipinos are the last country that you will go for the lack of security and the chronic predisposition to lie about everything, difficulty receiving a menu in English in the best restaurants, extremely hot and humid 50 C ° , if you are not with someone who speaks one of their dialects you are completely lost. Truly a bad experience.

[Mike Teavee]

12 minutes ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Everyone talks about his own experiences, for me the Filipinos are the last country that you will go for the lack of security and the chronic predisposition to lie about everything, difficulty receiving a menu in English in the best restaurants, extremely hot and humid 50 C ° , if you are not with someone who speaks one of their dialects you are completely lost. Truly a bad experience.

Are you serious!!!

1. I've never seen a menu in anything other than English in restaurants from Ma & Pa side of the road places to restaurants in 5 star hotels
2. Philippines is made up of 7,107 islands so it depends where you are but on the coast the sea breeze keeps it reasonably cool... Manila is on average 1-2 degrees cooler than Bangkok
3. The vast majority of people speak English & Tagalog/Bisaya is a lot easier to learn than Thai 

 

Where did you go in the Philippines to have this experience?

[transam]

1 minute ago, Mike Teavee said:

Are you serious!!!

1. I've never seen a menu in anything other than English in restaurants from Ma & Pa side of the road places to restaurants in 5 star hotels
2. Philippines is made up of 7,107 islands so it depends where you are but on the coast the sea breeze keeps it reasonably cool... Manila is on average 1-2 degrees cooler than Bangkok
3. The vast majority of people speak English & Tagalog/Bisaya is a lot easier to learn than Thai 

 

Where did you go in the Philippines to have this experience?

Prison.......????

[ICELANDMAN]

9 minutes ago, transam said:

Prison.......????

Yes same, I travel with bodyguards all the time.

[JonnyF]

14 hours ago, Speedhump said:

I flatly refuse believe any of these tearful posts 'I was going to go on a lovely trip around Thailand but cancelled it because I have to do a TM28 (not TM30, actually) on my return home' . This is all total BS (or the posters are the usual whining monkeys just trying to stir things up). I went on my first ever trip from my home in Hua Hin to Pattaya last week. 3 days. On my return went to Immig to do 90 day report and TM28. Took me 30 minutes queuing (was busy, for a change, I timed it wrong for once) and less than 5 minutes at the desk. I didn't have to show anything other than my and my wife's passports. 

Try doing it at Chaeng Wattana on Monday morning when you're supposed to be at work.

 

Well over an hour fighting Bangkok traffic to get there, fighting for a parking spot, then maybe 2-3 hours getting it done (if you're lucky) and then at least an hour in traffic to get back to the office.

 

So I need to take at least half a day off work every time I want to go to the beach at the weekend, just to report that I'm still living in the same house that I was on Saturday morning when I left. Yeah, that's not inconvenient at all...

 

 

[Moo 2]

Don't blame World Economy for tourism disaster, first, the baht is worth nothing, second,

that T30 is a joke for tourists who come here for a week or two, every time they want to

visit other places they have to report to the police just like common criminals, and third,

also when  they manage to bring tourists, they are not capable of looking after them and

therefore tourists not only don't come back but also tell other people it's not worth

visiting the "Land of Smiles".

[newnative]

13 hours ago, CygnusX1 said:

But many tourists, especially those staying for a week or two, prefer to stay in an apartment with a kitchen and washing machine. The signs they’re now confronted with when they arrive at their accommodation accusing them of trespassing, etc could well be dissuading many of them from returning to Thailand.

I’ve just spent over two months in Croatia and Montenegro, staying in various short term Airbnb apartments the whole time, in common with most other tourists. Not a single “you’re trespassing” type of sign to be seen anywhere. People there have been renting out their apartments short term long before the internet existed, let alone Airbnb.

For the record, I own a condo in Jomtien, and would never rent it out either short or long term, as it would be too much hassle and I don’t need the money. I have no problem with those owners who do, though. I look at it with a glass half full attitude - I may have to wait a bit for the lifts in the middle of high season, but for the rest of the year I almost have the whole place to myself.

     I think you will find that many municipalities, and condo projects themselves, have prohibitions against short-term rentals in residential condo projects for good and valid reasons.  Even with the illegality, I don't think too many people, me included, would object to someone quietly renting out his condo now and then when he is away to earn a little extra money.  Or a room in hs home.  That was the whole idea behind Airbnb in the first place.

     Unfortunately, in some condo projects that simple idea has morphed into a monster.  As you said, renting your room would be 'too much hassle'.  Yes, and renting just one room short-term would, for most, also have too little payoff for all the work and expense involved. 

      So, you have rich investors buying blocks of 20, 30, 40 or more condos in a project and setting up mini-hotels within the project. Or, they rent blocks of units in a project and then turn around an sublet them daily.  When I owned at Unixx several times I was approached to rent my 2 bedroom condo for 30,000 baht a month with the proviso that I allowed it to be rented out daily.  I refused.

     Obviously, to make the numbers work--especially if you start out each month 30,000 baht in the negative--you need those condos rented every single day to daily renters.  But, you can do that because if you have 20 or more rooms you can book tour groups and have a steady stream of tourists checking in and out every day or two.  And, ruining the condo project in the process and treating it like a hotel--which it assuredly is not.  

     For some condo projects, it's not yet a problem--and lucky you having a low season.  For others, it definitely is.  There is a reason you are seeing those big signs at condo entrances telling you daily renters are illegal--the long-term residents are really fed up. 

     The county where I used to live in the US came up with what I think is the best solution I have seen so far.  There are a number of items in the ordinance but the main ones are:

1. The condo project or housing association has to first  agree to allow short-term rentals.  So, knowing those good and valid reasons for not having short-term renters, the owners have to first vote yes to even having them.  Seems fair to let the owners vote yea or nay rather than force something on them that they don't want.  The county has still protected the owners who voted no with the following provisions:

2.  Only the owner and resident of the condo or house can rent it out short-term.  You have to legally live in the unit to be able to occasionally rent it out when you aren't there, or rent out a room.  So, no investor short-term rentals allowed and no blocks of rentals allowed.  If you buy a condo just for an investment and not to live in it, it has to be rented long-term.

3.  The number of days the condo or house can be rented out short-term is limited to a certain number of days in a year.  

    It seems to me to be a fair and reasoned solution and adheres to the original idea of Airbnb.  It allows owners to earn some extra money but at the same time puts in provisions that will protect a project and keep it a residence and not a hotel.  You, as a traveler, will still be able to use Airbnb to book a condo rather than a hotel room should that be your wish.  Or a room in a house.  But, you'll know the majority of the residents are ok with you being there and you're staying legally.

     

[NanLaew]

21 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My Brit pal moved from Chiang Mai to the Philippines then finally Phnom Penh.

He used to spend 65k/month until the exchange rate dropped, then he left rather than try to game immigration.

I visit him every year, you can come with me next time if you want.

 

Two others died, aged 50 (stomach cancer) and 59 (AIDs).

OK! New game!

 

There's 3 (-2)

[NanLaew]

20 hours ago, Teee said:

Very nice and Wow!! Love the buffalo.

Our gran always admonished us to be wary of the man that professes love for a buffalo.

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, djlest said:

i was planning a two week vacation all around Thailand at nice hotels, then i realized i would have to do TM30 so i cancelled my trip and instead... ill stay home and watch netflix and spend my hard earned money buying <deleted> from china. mai pen rai - up to you Thailand

???????????????

You don't have to do TM 30 and if you really were going to stay at "nice" hotels, rather than hovels, they would have done them.

The only TM 30 YOU had to worry about was the one when you returned to your home.

Much ado about nothing, IMO.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Moo 2 said:

Don't blame World Economy for tourism disaster, first, the baht is worth nothing, second,

that T30 is a joke for tourists who come here for a week or two, every time they want to

visit other places they have to report to the police just like common criminals, and third,

also when  they manage to bring tourists, they are not capable of looking after them and

therefore tourists not only don't come back but also tell other people it's not worth

visiting the "Land of Smiles".

I don't see any reality in that post. Short term tourists do NOT have to do TM 30, and probably most of them don't even know what it is.

What have the police got to do with it? The only time the police would be notified is for people staying far from an immigration office, when the form is submitted to the local police station ( as I used to do in the village ).

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Try doing it at Chaeng Wattana on Monday morning when you're supposed to be at work.

 

Well over an hour fighting Bangkok traffic to get there, fighting for a parking spot, then maybe 2-3 hours getting it done (if you're lucky) and then at least an hour in traffic to get back to the office.

 

So I need to take at least half a day off work every time I want to go to the beach at the weekend, just to report that I'm still living in the same house that I was on Saturday morning when I left. Yeah, that's not inconvenient at all...

 

 

Well, if you choose to live in that <deleted> <deleted> city, you have to expect difficulties. Self inflicted injury, IMO:-)

[NanLaew]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Try doing it at Chaeng Wattana on Monday morning when you're supposed to be at work.

 

Well over an hour fighting Bangkok traffic to get there, fighting for a parking spot, then maybe 2-3 hours getting it done (if you're lucky) and then at least an hour in traffic to get back to the office.

 

So I need to take at least half a day off work every time I want to go to the beach at the weekend, just to report that I'm still living in the same house that I was on Saturday morning when I left. Yeah, that's not inconvenient at all...

 

 

If that beach is Pattaya, it's better avoided apparently.

[wilcopops]

Whether numbers are up or down the fact remains that the demographics have changed forever and nearly half of visitors are now from Asia. So hotels that fail to truly cater for this are going to feel the pinch the most

[RoadWarrior371]

3 hours ago, ICELANDMAN said:

Everyone talks about his own experiences, for me the Filipinos are the last country that you will go for the lack of security and the chronic predisposition to lie about everything, difficulty receiving a menu in English in the best restaurants, extremely hot and humid 50 C ° , if you are not with someone who speaks one of their dialects you are completely lost. Truly a bad experience.

It is a known fact that the Philippines is a S*Hole.  Only those stuck there wax poetic about it as a face saving response.

[wilcopops]

7 minutes ago, RoadWarrior371 said:

It is a known fact that the Philippines is a S*Hole.  Only those stuck there wax poetic about it as a face saving response.

Probably the most facile, off topic post on the thread so far .... Please find explain how this is in any way connected to a drop in European visitors to Thailand