Monthly income method.

[vogie]

I am currently on a marriage extension and I have been paying money into my Thai bank account, however I noticed last months payments into my Thai account was about 500 baht short of the 40,000 baht required. It was an oversight on my behalf due to exchange rates etc, does this mean all my previous payments will account to nothing, is there a way to remedy this slip up.

[ubonjoe]

For an extension based upon marriage a average income of 40k baht for a year (at least a total of 480k baht). is allowed. 

Some offices have been reported as claiming it is not allowed but it is clearly written in the police orders.

 

 

[vogie]

5 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

For an extension based upon marriage a average income of 40k baht for a year (at least a total of 480k baht). is allowed. 

Some offices have been reported as claiming it is not allowed but it is clearly written in the police orders.

 

 

Thanks Joe, my office is Jomptien, do you know if they are ok with an average income of 40,000 baht a year?

[BHW]

My office Si Sa Ket said 40000 each & every month I averaged 42500 a month but one month 38400 so extension refused.

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, vogie said:

Thanks Joe, my office is Jomptien, do you know if they are ok with an average income of 40,000 baht a year?

I think they go by what is in the written police orders.

[jacko45k]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

Thanks Joe, my office is Jomptien, do you know if they are ok with an average income of 40,000 baht a year?

A friend of mine persuaded them, and in his case it was the 65,000 for a retirement extension... which is obligated every month. He had his Thai lady plead his case somewhat.

[vogie]

3 minutes ago, BHW said:

My office Si Sa Ket said 40000 each & every month I averaged 42500 a month but one month 38400 so extension refused.

What did you end up doing?

[geistfunke]

One thing is for sure, nothing is guaranteed in Thailand at the moment.

[MartiniMan]

My friend was 10 baht under once and get rejected. Sorry to let you know this but I think better you take the full amount of capital (400k) and leave in account for 3 months as it cannot be rejected that way.

They will do anything to keep farang out of Thailand because they do not travel at all and dont really understand what it is they are doing in their jobs they just pretty strange to be honest

[BHW]

20 hours ago, vogie said:

What did you end up doing?

I went home to Thai consulate in Brisbane went back 1 hour later O / Spouse visa ready no financials required just proof of marriage house wife ID etc hassle free. Trip home brought forward 1 month also have tp leave Thsiland every 90 days.

[Henryford]

51 minutes ago, MartiniMan said:

My friend was 10 baht under once and get rejected. Sorry to let you know this but I think better you take the full amount of capital (400k) and leave in account for 3 months as it cannot be rejected that way.

They will do anything to keep farang out of Thailand because they do not travel at all and dont really understand what it is they are doing in their jobs they just pretty strange to be honest

That's why i would never use the income method. So easy to get rejected for any number of reasons by which time it's too late to do anything else. The 400/800k in the bank is the only safe way.

[timkeen08]

20 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

For an extension based upon marriage a average income of 40k baht for a year (at least a total of 480k baht). is allowed. 

Some offices have been reported as claiming it is not allowed but it is clearly written in the police orders.

 

 

You have changed the meaning. The word monthly and average is behind the comma.  (ie together) "Average" is not directly connect to the word "year".  And, nowhere is the statement written "at least a total of 480k baht. is allowed."  That throughout the year comma.  Not a total throughout the year.  I have to disagree.

[ubonjoe]

10 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

You have changed the meaning. The word monthly and average is behind the comma.  (ie together) "Average" is not directly connect to the word "year".  And, nowhere is the statement written "at least a total of 480k baht. is allowed."  That throughout the year comma.  Not a total throughout the year.  I have to disagree.

I changed nothing. That is a screen grab ot the translated police order.

The 480k baht number is simple math by multiplying in 40k baht by 12.

This has been discussed in other topics. And the conclusion is that it means you can use a average annual income to apply for the extension.

Of course if you transferred 20k baht every month for 11 months and then 260k baht it would not be accepted.

FYI the reason for the average being allowed is due to a person applying for the extension can be working here and might not earn 40k baht every month.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I changed nothing. That is a screen grab ot the translated police order.

I would agree with the post, your comment did indicate you changed the association. 

The text from the screen grab clearly shows that the word "average is associated with "monthly".

You may well be right with intent but again it is the interpretation that becomes a variable.

[timkeen08]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I changed nothing. That is a screen grab ot the translated police order.

The 480k baht number is simple math by multiplying in 40k baht by 12.

This has been discussed in other topics. And the conclusion is that it means you can use a average annual income to apply for the extension.

Of course if you transferred 20k baht every month for 11 months and then 260k baht it would not be accepted.

FYI the reason for the average being allowed is due to a person applying for the extension can be working here and might not earn 40k baht every month.

People have reported being denied an extension in this thread for this wrong interpretation.  I have no faith in what you think it says.  I would hate to see someone go by your interpretation and be denied.  If you make this statement you should also include a disclaimer that all IO do not agree with your interpretation.  Personally I will cover my @$$ monthly.

[AgMech Cowboy]

Ubonjoe's post is correct. But, beware, the IO will be reading the orders/rules in Thai and have complete discretion in how they wish to interpret them.

 

Because of those little headaches and the attitude of some of the immigration office staff at Pathum Thani, I have always gone the Non O route and 90 day trip out of the country.  Ban Phunamron is an easy drive and takes very little time or effort to make the crossing. (Yeah, that was a dig at Pathum Thani).

[ubonjoe]

19 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

People have reported being denied an extension in this thread for this wrong interpretation.

In another topic where this was discussed a review of the original police order in Thai text confirmed that the translation is correct.

FYI the wording in the amended police order is identical to what is in the original police orders done in 2014 and 2008. The average income being allowed has been the same for many years.

If you read my original post in this topic you will see that I wrote this. "Some offices have been reported as claiming it is not allowed but it is clearly written in the police orders."

[timkeen08]

1 minute ago, ubonjoe said:

In another topic where this was discussed a review of the original police order in Thai text confirmed that the translation is correct.

FYI the wording in the amended police order is identical to what is in the original police orders done in 2014 and 2008. The average income being allowed has been the same for many years.

If you read my original post in this topic you will see that I wrote this. "Some offices have been reported as claiming it is not allowed but it is clearly written in the police orders."

Can you share the original text in Thai so my wife can read it.  She was told exactly what to do by the IO.  No less than 40,000 baht monthly.  PM me if you prefer.  Thank you.

[ubonjoe]

8 minutes ago, timkeen08 said:

Can you share the original text in Thai so my wife can read it.  She was told exactly what to do by the IO.  No less than 40,000 baht monthly.  PM me if you prefer.  Thank you.

The police orders and the amendment are here in Thai and English.

 

[Mike Teavee]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I changed nothing. That is a screen grab ot the translated police order.

The 480k baht number is simple math by multiplying in 40k baht by 12.

This has been discussed in other topics. And the conclusion is that it means you can use a average annual income to apply for the extension.

Of course if you transferred 20k baht every month for 11 months and then 260k baht it would not be accepted.

FYI the reason for the average being allowed is due to a person applying for the extension can be working here and might not earn 40k baht every month.

Hi Joe, is it possible that there is a different interpretation of the rules for those people who are working in Thailand (and so will probably not be transferring money in) who can prove income using a Thai Tax statement VS those who are bringing money in from overseas. 

 

E.g. I can see that they would accept an average monthly income for the scenario where somebody working in Thailand earning (say) 100k pm changes jobs and there's a month where he maybe gets paid 2 months salary followed by a month with no salary then back to 100k pm again, but I cannot see them accepting an average if somebody is transferring in 100k pm, then 200k, then zero then back to 100k.

 

Poster above had an average of 42,500 over 11 months; (467,500) & 1 payment of 38,400 (505,900) but was rejected

 

We don't have the finer details, maybe they did 1 month at 267,000 & 10 months at 20,000 then 1 month at 38,400 but I'm assuming that the 11 monthly payments were all above 40,000 so they were rejected for one being below @BHWcan you please confirm

 

I think it's fair to say that the only way to be safe using the income payment if you're not working in Thailand is to make sure that you transfer in > 40k on roughly the same date each & every month

Edited September 20, 2019 by Mike Teavee

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

Hi Joe, is it possible that there is a different interpretation of the rules for those people who are working in Thailand (and so will probably not be transferring money in) who can prove income using a Thai Tax statement VS those who are bringing money in from overseas. 

Not in the written orders. Perhaps in the minds of some immigration officer there is.

The working reason I mentioned was just an example as to why it is in the police orders.

In reality I think it is meant to make it easier for those applying for extensions based upon marriage or being the parent of a Thai.

Since an average is allowed is the reason a combination of income and money in the bank is not allowed for them. The combination is only allowed for retirement and there is no averaging allowed.

For those that cannot get income proof from their embassy the average income is even more important than before. Showing the 40k baht going into a Thai bank means there can be variations of income due to exchange rate fluctuations.

[UKresonant]

17 minutes ago, Mike Teavee said:

I think it's fair to say that the only way to be safe using the income payment if you're not working in Thailand is to make sure that you transfer in > 40k on roughly the same date each & every month

After 17 months I've reached the conclusion there is no way to be "safe", just have to prepare for as many options as possible, and hope one of them is of use when the time comes! ???? ????

[Captain 776]

That is the minimum.........if 500 less is OK........is 1000 less OK?

 

I think under current circumstances you are going to find it is not OK.........SILLY as that is.

[thecyclist]

This police order is confusing :average income of father :does that mean you can get a retirement/marriage visa on the basis of the income of your dad:my dad makes a lot more than I do. 

[ubonjoe]

22 minutes ago, thecyclist said:

This police order is confusing :average income of father :does that mean you can get a retirement/marriage visa on the basis of the income of your dad:my dad makes a lot more than I do. 

That is for an extension of stay based upon being the father of a Thai child.

[timkeen08]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The police orders and the amendment are here in Thai and English.

 

Thank you.  I will give it to my wife.  She and her friend that does my extensions each year can discuss what it says in Thai if my wife sees anything different than what we were told.  Words are switched around in sentences between Thai and English so much.  I see this is a law firm translation and not a ministrial.

[Henryford]

8 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

I changed nothing. That is a screen grab ot the translated police order.

The 480k baht number is simple math by multiplying in 40k baht by 12.

This has been discussed in other topics. And the conclusion is that it means you can use a average annual income to apply for the extension.

Of course if you transferred 20k baht every month for 11 months and then 260k baht it would not be accepted.

FYI the reason for the average being allowed is due to a person applying for the extension can be working here and might not earn 40k baht every month.

It is NOT an average then and no one really knows what range of earnings per month might be acceptable to IO on the day.

[ubonjoe]

43 minutes ago, Henryford said:

It is NOT an average then and no one really knows what range of earnings per month might be acceptable to IO on the day.

That was meant to be a exaggerated example. I don't think anybody would try it.

An example to use might be a range of 35 to 45k baht for 12 months or such. I am certain they would question a large monthly difference.

If a person has a fixed income transferred in every month the problem a person could have would be exchange rate changes over the year.

[Humpy]

No problem, just pop along to any of the dodgy Visa agents , like the other 20,000 or so expats do .

[Mike Teavee]

16 hours ago, Henryford said:

It is NOT an average then and no one really knows what range of earnings per month might be acceptable to IO on the day.

Of course it's an average (total divided by number of units)...

 

Care to share a different definition of average?

 

Is 10 x 20K + 2 x 140K ok

Is 6 x 60K & 6 x 20k ok

is 11 x 42,500 & 1 x 38,400 OK (Clearly not from the previous poster)

 

Edit Apologies, you might be right about it not being an average, i used the more common definition as I'm sure most people do...

a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

 

 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Mike Teavee