Monthly income method.

[evadgib]

A friend of mine just got knocked back because one of his months was short and they wouldn't accept him topping up within the same calendar month in order to correct it. I can't remember the figures but for arguments sake lets say it was THB 35k plus 5k whereas they insisted upon 1x40k or multiples thereof with no exceptions. This to me smacks of a gross misinterpretation of the rules, possibly for financial gain, by driving applicants towards agents rather than doing it themselves.

 

@ubonjoe Is there such a thing as an appeal process and has anyone actually tried using it? There is/was an 'appeal' template in the pinned topic at the top of the page but I have yet to hear of anyone that has gone down that route.

 

If the situation is no clearer by the time I next renew i'll consider importing THB 800k in order to avoid similar probs.

Edited September 21, 2019 by evadgib

[ubonjoe]

2 minutes ago, evadgib said:

 

@ubonjoe Is there such a thing as an appeal process and has anyone actually tried using it? There is/was an 'appeal' template in the pinned topic at the top of the page but I have yet to hear of anyone that has gone down that route.

There is no appeal process for extension applications. Some people have been able to contact the immigration bureau (1178) when they have had problems with a local immigration offices.

The TM11 appeal form you mentioned is for denial of entries.

[john thom]

23 hours ago, UKresonant said:

After 17 months I've reached the conclusion there is no way to be "safe", just have to prepare for as many options as possible, and hope one of them is of use when the time comes! ???? ????

hahah, you are soooo right-.   The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, john thom said:

hahah, you are soooo right-.   The right hand has no idea what the left hand is doing

Or the left hand has no idea what the right hand is doing …….. depends on your interpretation ????

 

Same, same, but different!  ????

[UKresonant]

Pound was up a bit yesterday, using the T/T rate 5 transfers so far Average 39507 but the lowest was 37017, need the pound to rise either 1.1% or 8.1% against the baht to be OK by this time next year. 

(Will start adding 5GBP to the transfer to compensate for it's disappearance on route, and to get it to match the pension amount being sent).

[Neeranam]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:42 PM, ubonjoe said:

For an extension based upon marriage a average income of 40k baht for a year (at least a total of 480k baht). is allowed. 

Some offices have been reported as claiming it is not allowed but it is clearly written in the police orders.

 

 

Great information! Does that mean because one month my payment was a week late, therefore one month late, I'll  be okay?

[Neeranam]

On 9/20/2019 at 9:45 AM, ubonjoe said:

I changed nothing. That is a screen grab ot the translated police order.

The 480k baht number is simple math by multiplying in 40k baht by 12.

This has been discussed in other topics. And the conclusion is that it means you can use a average annual income to apply for the extension.

Of course if you transferred 20k baht every month for 11 months and then 260k baht it would not be accepted.

FYI the reason for the average being allowed is due to a person applying for the extension can be working here and might not earn 40k baht every month.

Any chance of seeing the Thai version?

Sorry, I see it now. Btw, there are no comma in the Thai language. 

Edited September 21, 2019 by Neeranam

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Great information! Does that mean because one month my payment was a week late, therefore one month late, I'll  be okay?

It's far less stressful for the Immigration officer if you miss 11 monthly transfers and just make one of 400K.

It saves them having to think!

[Neeranam]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's far less stressful for the Immigration officer if you miss 11 monthly transfers and just make one of 400K.

It saves them having to think!

It is much more stressful for them to deal with someone armed with the law and stands up for their rights, in a non-confrontational way, of course.

[ubonjoe]

14 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Great information! Does that mean because one month my payment was a week late, therefore one month late, I'll  be okay?

If the transfer normally arrived near the end of the month and you had enough months showing a history of them arriving then they might accept one being a few days late.

No average would be needed in that case.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

It is much more stressful for them to deal with someone armed with the law and stands up for their rights, in a non-confrontational way, of course.

I absolutely agree, but there are two factors involved.

1. The foreigner will rarely know the law, let alone be armed with it.

2. The Immigration officer is always correct, even when he's wrong.

[NanLaew]

On 9/19/2019 at 12:52 PM, BHW said:

My office Si Sa Ket said 40000 each & every month I averaged 42500 a month but one month 38400 so extension refused.

Makes perfect sense when the last sentence, the bit after the comma (that doesn't exist in Thai script) is correctly interpreted as, "an average monthly income is not less than 40,000 baht."

Edited September 21, 2019 by NanLaew

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

Makes perfect sense when the last sentence, the bit after the comma (that doesn't exist in Thai script) is correctly interpreted as, "an average monthly income is not less than 40,000 baht."

Not sure what you are trying to say.

A average is allowed. Why would they write average in the rule if it was not allowed.

[Jingthing]

Not sure what you are trying to say.
A average is allowed. Why would they write average in the rule if it was not allowed.

Doesn't every month need to be at least the minimum amount though?!?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Doesn't every month need to be at least the minimum amount though?!?

Why would it if an average monthly income for a year is allowed that equals the minimum of 40k baht.

Simple for immigration to calculate. All they have to do is total up the annual income to see if it is equal to or greater than 480k baht.

[UKresonant]

59 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Simple for immigration to calculate. All they have to do is total up the annual income to see if it is equal to or greater than 480k baht.

That does seem quite  an easy calculation, especially if it's all summarised on a bank letter, on one page, with a total at the bottom ????.

 

Also in my case it's only a regular transfer, of a verifiable (to anyone that does not need a third party letter, that that cannot be produced ????) amount from one pension a year in arrears, to a Thai bank, that may or may not be of any use what so ever in the future, it could all change again soon???? 

 

I think today's favourites table would be for this time next year, at this snapshot in time;

a. non-O ME from HCMC (could be scuppered if they got the e-visa thingy)

b. O-A Visa from London (could be scuppered if they add the format of insurance requirement that was previously rumoured)

c. Continually asking for non-O, SETV or METV (less than ideal for planning flights and scheduling in advance against School holidays and other requirements, they may get grumpy eventually because I'm not asking for the most appropriate visa, which they have stopped issuing in the UK)

d. Extension based on Marriage with a Multi-entry permit. using an average amount, SWIFTed  to a Thai bank, (Bank may screw it up, exchange rate risk, IO or a boss my have poor knowledge or training) but immigration do not process these within the normal time frame that I'm here anyway. But as the Pacific Cross  guy said in a video referenced not so long ago, unexpected circumstance could occur, delaying departure.

e. Lottery ticket comes up, and I can buy a 20 year elite with Money I've not earned ????

. 

 

 

[NanLaew]

6 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what you are trying to say.

A average is allowed. Why would they write average in the rule if it was not allowed.

Why would BHW's renewal at Sisaket have been refused then? He had a 12-month average 0f 42,000 baht/month but one month's transfer was below the 40,000 baht monthly minimum so they rejected it. Using his figures, he had brought in 504,000 baht over the 12 months which is 24,000 baht more than the annual mandatory minimum of 480,000 baht but not good enough because one month's income had a 1,600 baht shortfall?

 

I think it's possibly a misconception on our non-Thai speaking behalf caused by the official translation to English being ambiguous whereas the original Thai-written law maybe has no ambiguity?

 

Ensure it is 40,000 baht a month MINIMUM and forget about averaging anything.

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Doesn't every month need to be at least the minimum amount though?!?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

That's how I will interpret it, regardless of what some immigration offices have been reported as accepting.

[Jingthing]

That's how I will interpret it, regardless of what some immigration offices have been reported as accepting.

Seems safer to be paranoid in this environment.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, UKresonant said:

I think today's favourites table would be for this time next year, at this snapshot in time;

a. non-O ME from HCMC (could be scuppered if they got the e-visa thingy)

If the E-Visa system comes online in adjoining Countries, any Visa could become unobtainable.

Quote

Confirmation of legal residence in the UK or Ireland (if applicants are not nationals of these countries) e.g. long stay visa, residence permit, BRP card

That's an extract from the London Embassy for a Tourist Visa.

If applications are restricted to only citizens or residency permit holders of the relevant Country, a lot of expats will find themselves up <deleted> creek without a paddle.

[Changoverandout]

I receive state U.K. pension monthly into my Thai bank and have a private pension which I send twice or 3 times a year to my Thai bank.

 

it will average 40,600 / month- 487,200 over the year.

 

 I apply beginning of October in Nakhon Sawan. I hope they accept it.

Edited September 22, 2019 by Changoverandout
Literal

[Peter Denis]

34 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

I receive state U.K. pension monthly into my Thai bank and have a private pension which I send twice or 3 times a year to my Thai bank.

 

it will average 40,600 / month- 487,200 over the year.

 

 I apply beginning of October in Nakhon Sawan. I hope they accept it.

That will be a very good test-case for the discussions whether an 'average monthly income' is allowed.

It's clear from your post that you meet the intent of the law.  But if your provincial IO goes for the minimum 40.000 THB per month strict interpretation as some IO's seem to do, you might see your application denied.

So it would be wise to check out and plan some options in case of application denied.

Do keep us posted on the outcome, even though when approved it would only show that your IO (actually the officer that handled your application) acts according to the intent of the law.

Wish you luck and a good outcome!

 

 

[Jingthing]

Why would it if an average monthly income for a year is allowed that equals the minimum of 40k baht.
Simple for immigration to calculate. All they have to do is total up the annual income to see if it is equal to or greater than 480k baht.

So that averaging rule that technically allows going under the monthly minimum on some months applies the 65k baht retirement extension applications as well?

My advice is to not give them excuses to deny your application even when you know that you are technically correct. If they deny your correct application people can take that feeling of being right but denied and 5 dollahs to Starbucks to get a latte.

I had similar advice about expecting leniency on less than 12 months of transfers especially with the retirement combo method. Technical rules and actual enforcement are not always the same thing.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tanoshi]

49 minutes ago, Changoverandout said:

I receive state U.K. pension monthly into my Thai bank and have a private pension which I send twice or 3 times a year to my Thai bank.

 

it will average 40,600 / month- 487,200 over the year.

 

 I apply beginning of October in Nakhon Sawan. I hope they accept it.

You could face a number of issues.

Firstly your directly transferred UK state pensions will go through the Bank of Thailand and be coded as a Bahtnet transfer, which is not automatically recognised as an International transfer by many IO's.

 

Secondly depending on the method you use to transfer your other pensions and your Thai bank, they may not be coded as International transfers (FTT), or you may require 'credit receipts' as additional proof.

 

Thirdly and as mentioned, Nakhon Sawan may require monthly deposits of a minimum of 40K, rather than a monthly average of 40K throughout a one year period.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So that averaging rule that technically allows going under the monthly minimum on some months applies the 65k baht retirement extension applications as well?

There is no 'average' accepted for extension based on retirement.

It's a minimum of 65K per month.

[Jingthing]

There is no 'average' accepted for extension based on retirement.
It's a minimum of 65K per month.

That's why I asked. Does Ubonjoe agree or not?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

So that averaging rule that technically allows going under the monthly minimum on some months applies the 65k baht retirement extension applications as well?

No

A average income is not allowed for retirement. But there a combination of income and money in the bank instead of average income.

The combination option is not available for a extension based upon marriage.

[Tanoshi]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

That's why I asked. Does Ubonjoe agree or not?

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Read Police Orders.

The word 'average' doesn't appear anywhere in relation to retirement extension based on income.

 

Edited September 22, 2019 by Tanoshi

[Jingthing]

Read Police Orders.
The word 'average' doesn't appear anywhere in relation to retirement extension based on income.
 

OK. Seemed odd averages are supposedly allowed for one and the other.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Changoverandout]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

You could face a number of issues.

Firstly your directly transferred UK state pensions will go through the Bank of Thailand and be coded as a Bahtnet transfer, which is not automatically recognised as an International transfer by many IO's.

 

Secondly depending on the method you use to transfer your other pensions and your Thai bank, they may not be coded as International transfers (FTT), or you may require 'credit receipts' as additional proof.

 

Thirdly and as mentioned, Nakhon Sawan may require monthly deposits of a minimum of 40K, rather than a monthly average of 40K throughout a one year period.

Citibank sent me a letter stating they receive money from U.K. pension office and transfer to my bank.

The other pensions I send ad hoc throughout the year via transferwise and are coded FTT (foreign transfer).

Yes I asked the IO if I’d be okay a while back and she said I need 40000 per month so I’m going armed with the police order in Thai and English.

 

Fingers etc crossed!