EU Council will be too late to negotiate Brexit deal: French source

[JonnyF]

1 minute ago, Victornoir said:

You are right to hate the Europeans.

And if you knew what they really think of you and your brexit, you would hate them even more.

Ah, another strawman argument. You can't attack my real views so you make some up for me and attack those instead.

 

I don't hate Europeans, I have many European friends and love many parts of Europe.

 

I intensely dislike the EU. Massive difference.

[stephenterry]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Would that be because you lost the referendum then? 

read post 18.

[Chomper Higgot]

4 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris has only been in the job for 57 days, how would it be possible to present a deal a "long time ago"

It’s eleven months now since he told us he and his chums in the ERG had a Plan B ready to go.

 

That has since been demonstrated to be a lie.

 

As for the time required for Johnson to get a deal, it is Johnson himself who said he would not ask for an extension, if there is not enough time left then the fault and the fix to the fault are entirely in Johnson’s hands.

[stephenterry]

17 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Lib Dem without the Dem. Demmit!

Leavers understanding of democracy means that their anti-democracy mantra is for the government to obey them and them only.  Enough said on that topic.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

read post 18.

Done. Next assignment?

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

Leavers understanding of democracy means that their anti-democracy mantra is for the government to obey them and them only.  Enough said on that topic.

I can agree with that last bit.

[OneMoreFarang]

30 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

The best solution is to revoke A 50, and junk brexit, then call a GE. Erase the past and start afresh.  

Yes, but...

 

It will leave millions of people in the UK unhappy and you can be sure they will continue to complain for years how bad the EU is and how wonderful everything would be outside of the EU.

 

And then you have the Brexit party in the EU parliament. And they are supposed to represent the UK.

 

Bad news and bad news.

[nauseus]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s eleven months now since he told us he and his chums in the ERG had a Plan B ready to go.

 

That has since been demonstrated to be a lie.

 

As for the time required for Johnson to get a deal, it is Johnson himself who said he would not ask for an extension, if there is not enough time left then the fault and the fix to the fault are entirely in Johnson’s hands.

Maybe he wants to see if the EU will ask for the extension? 

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

Yes, but...

 

It will leave millions of people in the UK unhappy and you can be sure they will continue to complain for years how bad the EU is and how wonderful everything would be outside of the EU.

 

And then you have the Brexit party in the EU parliament. And they are supposed to represent the UK.

 

Bad news and bad news.

Look on the bright side. A new beginning. 

[OneMoreFarang]

13 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris has only been in the job for 57 days, how would it be possible to present a deal a "long time ago"

And how long was Boris on the UK government?

I think I can remember he was foreign secretary for some time. Please tell me what good ideas did he present at that time.

 

And lets not forget: Over the last weeks Boris talks about his great deal which is so secret that the EU never heard of it and it seems even people in Boris government don't know about this. Now what should we think about that?

[OneMoreFarang]

1 minute ago, stephenterry said:

Look on the bright side. A new beginning. 

I would love to see a bright side.

 

Where should this new beginning come from? The divide in the UK won't just disappear.

And if Brexit is cancelled I can't imagine that the EU would be able to cooperate with the UK just like nothing ever happened.

[david555]

It starts  more & more looking like the U.K. is go become "renting" a membership ….????

[sammieuk1]

Here's for me an expat what the Tory government has given me in the last decade 1) extra year to wait for my pension 2) capped pension 3)Ni conurbations moved from 30 to 35 years

Causing me to be two years short of a reduced pension.4) denied NHS access 5) a north of 30% loss in the value of the pound 6)Brexit shambles.7) no access for your wife and kids without large piles of cash.  

 

Why would any expat continue supporting this government or trust a lying PM that's only hanging on because whispering Jeremey is an even worse option vote Liberal the only way ????   

[stephenterry]

2 minutes ago, Victornoir said:

You have no argument except hatred and insult.

Fortunately, you do not represent the British as a whole

Unfortunately you would find Brexit is a toxic subject across little England. Not Scotland, Ireland, and now Wales who as at today, would probably vote to embrace the EU.

[david555]

2 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Here's for me an expat what the Tory government has given me in the last decade 1) extra year to wait for my pension 2) capped pension 3)Ni conurbations moved from 30 to 35 years

Causing me to be two years short of a reduced pension.4) denied NHS access 5) a north of 30% loss in the value of the pound 6)Brexit shambles.7) no access for your wife and kids without large piles of cash.  

 

Why would any expat continue supporting this government or trust a lying PM that's only hanging on because whispering Jeremey is an even worse option vote Liberal the only way ????   

So...? Are you not proud to be British ..? (please read with understanding sarcasm ...???? )

[Rookiescot]

40 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Indeed.

 

We all knew the EU were a difficult, stubborn, inflexible organization, but the staggering scale of belligerence they have shown has shocked even the most ardent Eurosceptics. 

 

 

It was not the EU who said it would be an easy deal. It was the Leave campaigners.

Yet another lie they told to add to all the others. 

[Baerboxer]

16 hours ago, damascase said:

Exactly who is being awkward here? The UK has had over three years to come up with a concrete proposal for a deal, but never did it. You can’t blame your opponent at the negotiating table for having done some preparation and lay down a proposed text - but I’m sure you will.

BJ just don’t seem to seriously seek a deal - and will then blame the EU for the following crash......

 

 

Not quite that simple, is it? The EU and May's government concocted an appalling deal that was considerably worse than remaining. Presumably May's hope was to remain as close to the EU as possible and she was willing to concede anything, and did, to achieve her goal. Never have I seen so many people with opposing and different views, from all walks of life, united against such a proposal. May added insult to injury with her 'meaningful" votes. <deleted> - does she think the other votes are just amusement??

 

If any UK government had proposed deals, Barnier would, as no doubt instructed, rejected them, without any particularly valid reason. The EU cannot be seen to provide good deals to those wishing to leave the potential federalized socialist European state; otherwise there would be many more doing the same!

 

France, with the ambitious arrogant Macron appointing himself head of the EU as well as America's spokesperson when it suits, and German, weakening a bit as Merkel teeters towards retirement, are calling all the shots. The others are having to do as they're told.

 

Just look at the 4 people selected to be appointed to key EU leadership roles, A German PhD cheat, whose defense department are under investigation for dodgy defense deals and who is passionate about establishing a EU Military (and defense department) - nice little earner for some; a French ex finance minister convicted of negligence over a fraud involving tax payer's money; a Spaniard with a conviction for insider trading and a failed Belgian PM. Clearly handpicked for their skill, knowledge and outstanding achievements! They'll do as they're told to!

 

Verhoffstadt is more threatening. Saying he won't tolerate a Singapore in the North Sea. Well Guy, you ain't running the EU and no one gives a toss about you. 

 

I voted to remain because the UK and like minded countries should be working to create real democracy in the EU. Not bureaucrats with the "right" PC views packed into positions to act as gate keepers and ensure only the right policies are implemented. No one has the balls to hold EU wide referendums to see what the people really want, on federalization, centralization, immigration, etc. They think they know best. The sheeple who follow then will get what they deserve. 

[vogie]

Just now, OneMoreFarang said:

And how long was Boris on the UK government?

I think I can remember he was foreign secretary for some time. Please tell me what good ideas did he present at that time.

 

And lets not forget: Over the last weeks Boris talks about his great deal which is so secret that the EU never heard of it and it seems even people in Boris government don't know about this. Now what should we think about that?

It matters not one jot how long Boris has been in government, we are talking about how long he has been PM, a position of being able to change things, May was hardly the best listener in the world, now was she.

The EU has always told the UK that the withdrawal agreement would not be opened at any cost, now Mr Jean Claude Junker looks like he is beginning to wobble a little more than he normally does. There was very little point in trying to talk to people who are not willing to listen and as I said, 57 days as PM is hardly deserving a gold watch for good time keeping and long service now is it.

[Baerboxer]

42 minutes ago, vogie said:

Boris has only been in the job for 57 days, how would it be possible to present a deal a "long time ago"

 

So you're saying he lied when 3 years ago he said he and his cronies were working on Plan B?

 

Or is it that 3 years and 57 days and they're still working on it?

 

More likely their plan was to leave with no-deal all the time.

[BritManToo]

20 minutes ago, sammieuk1 said:

Here's for me an expat what the Tory government has given me in the last decade 1) extra year to wait for my pension

That was in 2007 under a Labour government.

[sammieuk1]

6 minutes ago, david555 said:

So...? Are you not proud to be British ..? (please read with understanding sarcasm ...???? )

Don't start me on zero hour contracts ,foodbanks ,homelessness, bedroom tax ,universal credit , adult social care charges ,housing or other Tory gifts to the people????

[sandyf]

52 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Indeed.

 

We all knew the EU were a difficult, stubborn, inflexible organization, but the staggering scale of belligerence they have shown has shocked even the most ardent Eurosceptics. 

 

 

The EU is a political machine that operates under a set of rules and regulations, something that the UK along with 27 other countries signed up to and agreed to abide by.

Now that the UK does not agree with the rules and regulations, the actions of the 27 other countries is now seen as belligerence.

Only the paranoid could make that up.

[Baerboxer]

37 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It’s eleven months now since he told us he and his chums in the ERG had a Plan B ready to go.

 

That has since been demonstrated to be a lie.

 

As for the time required for Johnson to get a deal, it is Johnson himself who said he would not ask for an extension, if there is not enough time left then the fault and the fix to the fault are entirely in Johnson’s hands.

 

You can tell when he lies because his lips move!

 

But you are, I suspect, seeing their Plan B. It was always to leave without a deal, then fight a GE with the "look we're the boys who delivered Brexit and ain't paying a penny for it" type slogan. They know a short rise in popularity, given the intense dislike of Corbyn by many traditional non Tory voters, could translate into a handsome majority in parliament. Only then will we all see their true plans for any EU deal and also for internal policies.

 

Don't underestimate them. 

[david555]

6 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not quite that simple, is it? The EU and May's government concocted an appalling deal that was considerably worse than remaining. Presumably May's hope was to remain as close to the EU as possible and she was willing to concede anything, and did, to achieve her goal. Never have I seen so many people with opposing and different views, from all walks of life, united against such a proposal. May added insult to injury with her 'meaningful" votes. <deleted> - does she think the other votes are just amusement??

 

If any UK government had proposed deals, Barnier would, as no doubt instructed, rejected them, without any particularly valid reason. The EU cannot be seen to provide good deals to those wishing to leave the potential federalized socialist European state; otherwise there would be many more doing the same!

 

France, with the ambitious arrogant Macron appointing himself head of the EU as well as America's spokesperson when it suits, and German, weakening a bit as Merkel teeters towards retirement, are calling all the shots. The others are having to do as they're told.

 

Just look at the 4 people selected to be appointed to key EU leadership roles, A German PhD cheat, whose defense department are under investigation for dodgy defense deals and who is passionate about establishing a EU Military (and defense department) - nice little earner for some; a French ex finance minister convicted of negligence over a fraud involving tax payer's money; a Spaniard with a conviction for insider trading and a failed Belgian PM. Clearly handpicked for their skill, knowledge and outstanding achievements! They'll do as they're told to!

 

Verhoffstadt is more threatening. Saying he won't tolerate a Singapore in the North Sea. Well Guy, you ain't running the EU and no one gives a toss about you. 

 

I voted to remain because the UK and like minded countries should be working to create real democracy in the EU. Not bureaucrats with the "right" PC views packed into positions to act as gate keepers and ensure only the right policies are implemented. No one has the balls to hold EU wide referendums to see what the people really want, on federalization, centralization, immigration, etc. They think they know best. The sheeple who follow then will get what they deserve. 

And always forgetting the U.K. is the leave side ….. so why ever the E.U. would give in on all your wishes ….. yeah ...I understand ….. must be very frustrating for " Britannia rules the waves …" ????

[vogie]

Just now, Baerboxer said:

 

So you're saying he lied when 3 years ago he said he and his cronies were working on Plan B?

 

Or is it that 3 years and 57 days and they're still working on it?

 

More likely their plan was to leave with no-deal all the time.

May had her deal and that was that, you may as well be talking to Helen Keller than Mrs May on changing it, that was the one that was going to be the UKs salvation.

[sandyf]

1 hour ago, CaptainNemo said:

trying to pull all the levers to unmake the decisions of the people by any means necessary.:

In a parliamentary democracy, the people do not make decisions.

If you wish to see a Peoples Democratic Republic of England feel free to start a campaign, until then parliament is sovereign.

[OneMoreFarang]

8 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

So you're saying he lied when 3 years ago he said he and his cronies were working on Plan B?

 

Or is it that 3 years and 57 days and they're still working on it?

 

More likely their plan was to leave with no-deal all the time.

I am sure they believed their own dream about Great Britain and it's importance.

[usviphotography]

16 hours ago, damascase said:

 

BJ just don’t seem to seriously seek a deal - and will then blame the EU for the following crash......

 

You will never get a deal without the real threat of a Brexit. BJ is the first British leader to even attempt to get a deal. But the Parliament undercut him, so EU will now balk as they no longer have any incentive to negotiate. 

 

"Give us a deal or.......nothing whatsoever will happen, we will remain in the EU indefinitely, and you will get everything you want" is not a valid negotiating position. How stupid would the EU have to be to offer the UK a deal when the UK is telling them straight up that if they don't offer a deal the EU wins?

[david555]

19 minutes ago, vogie said:

It matters not one jot how long Boris has been in government, we are talking about how long he has been PM, a position of being able to change things, May was hardly the best listener in the world, now was she.

The EU has always told the UK that the withdrawal agreement would not be opened at any cost, now Mr Jean Claude Junker looks like he is beginning to wobble a little more than he normally does. There was very little point in trying to talk to people who are not willing to listen and as I said, 57 days as PM is hardly deserving a gold watch.

The "I am not emotionally attached to the backstop " I read by U.K. side as a narrow opening …. but is lost in cultural translation (just as we struggle sometimes with English understandings ..)as he meant  that even he don't like the backstop …, but nothing else better is there .

 

That is all he meant ….. I understand the desperation on U.K. side to grab for any driftwood to not drown 

[MRToMRT]

Its been a wild ride this past couple of weeks in UK Brexit politics. Speaking completely neutrally (I don't care about the outcome anymore) I have gone from thinking we are definitely going out, to we are definitely going to have an election and pro-leave will win to now being of the opinion that remain is now a contender at least. 

If labour, SNP and the lib dems can capitalize on making Boris look a supreme dud, their combined vote is now a real threat to Brexit (through a new referendum at least).