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Accept pattaya for why the city was created or lose the $£€


usualsuspect

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37 minutes ago, champers said:

Where are these mythical Chinese run hotels? Name them. Name one.

Further to this, I believe Chinese investors are now the number one customer of the huge Thai developer, Sinsiri. 

 

They mainly buy condos, but the problem is, the condos are used for short term rental.  Probably the biggest example of this is The Base. 

 

I can only assume the Sinsiri Group has guaranteed police protection for this illegal behavior, in order to be able to sell their condos to the Chinese. 

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On 10/2/2019 at 11:17 AM, kinyara said:

Yep, we've all seen thousands of Chinese workers fly in to Pattaya to knock up these hotels that never existed in the past.  " Check out the Cambodia forum " - that about sums your real world knowledge of the region up. Have you ever actually been to Sihanoukville ?  

 

"Thai's are now in a position where they must accept zero baht tourism.  Sounds like something you also read in an internet forum.

 

" Most of the profits from mass package holiday tourism either remain in China, or are repatriated back in China "  Aye ok Einstein.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are making yourself look silly now.

 

Everyone knows the majority of migrant labor here is Burmese, followed by Cambodia and Lao nationals.  They are not retired expats here, they are workers.

 

Old statistics, but they show my point.  These migrant laborers are building developments the Chinese will buy.  

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Thailand

 

Have you even been to Sihanoukville, recently????

 

I'm no Einstein, but remember all the media artcile about "zero baht tourists?"  Well, not much has changed.

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On 10/3/2019 at 5:54 PM, shdmn said:

Over priced Food Park in Central Festival totally empty.  Only Asian and Indian low end tourists.  Those Farangs you see in this picture were photoshopped in to fill in the TOTALLY empty food court.  All high end hotels empty.  Pattaya totally doomed!

 

 

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And look at all the shopping bags they are carrying.  Yeah, big money in the food court attracting them into the mall.  ????????

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12 hours ago, shdmn said:

See those words on your picture of the wall?  "New experience coming soon" with pictures of food.  I am told it will be another reasonably priced food court like before, just renovated, whatever that means.  My guess it is being done in response to the T21 food court.

"Soon" means when? 

 

There is no building work going on behind those walls. 

 

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On 10/3/2019 at 6:52 PM, shdmn said:

What empty shops?  The old food court is still completely covered with a temporary wall.  So it's a complete mystery what is going on behind there. I heard from someone who heard from someone who knows someone involved (in other words, take with a big grain of salt), that the newly renovated food court in the basement will be opening back up this month (October) sometime.   No idea what will happening with that Food Park in the basement when the food court opens back up but their prices are a complete rip off.  120baht for Kao Man Gai is at least double the normal price just about anywhere else.

 

That is why almost all the Russians now go to T21 food court.  If the newly renovated food court in the basement of Central has competitive prices to T21 then I'm sure so people will come back. Hard to see how they can compete with T21 food court prices though.

I'm sure these food courts were not intended to become a tourist attraction, but due to the cheap food, that's exactly what they have become. 

 

You post some photos of a busy food court.  How about you post some corresponding photos of empty nearby restaurants that these cheap food courts are causing to go broke. 

 

It's a bit like a few hamburger shops in a neighborhood, and then a McDonalds open up and sends them broke. 

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1 hour ago, Songkran18 said:

It's a shame it doesn't have any "beach life" like it might have back in the day. That aspect of Pattaya, is a lost marketing asset that would have at least improved the appearance and development of Beach Rd, and maybe spread inland a bit.

The trouble with this is beach encroachment. 

 

The Thai's ended up building permanent structures on the sand, and even blocking use of the sand in front of them.

 

When the Thai Army took control, they got rid of a lot of this. 

 

All these beach clubs were illegal.  No official leases etc.  Just corrupt payments, and it got out of control.

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45 minutes ago, Leaver said:

I believe this Chinese company is the biggest for hotels in Thailand, but there smaller ones, which a quick Google will reveal.

 

http://destinationthailandnews.com/news/business-news/plateno-group-surges-as-most-influential-chinese-hotel-brand-in-thailand-globally.html

 

"Now, Plateno plans on opening a property in the seaside resort town of Pattaya in early 2019, with many other projects being planned in Thailand with local investors and developers."

 

 

So you can't name just one Chinese owned hotel in Pattaya. The company you quote, Plateno, are working with local (Thai) investors and developers.

I found no Chinese owned hotels in Pattaya on google.

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1 hour ago, champers said:

So you can't name just one Chinese owned hotel in Pattaya. The company you quote, Plateno, are working with local (Thai) investors and developers.

I found no Chinese owned hotels in Pattaya on google.

As you may be aware, it's not unusual for one company to own several chains hotels, but that company is owned by another company, being the parent company.

 

This is just one example, after a quick Google around. 

 

Jin Jiang International Holdings is a huge Chinese company.  They bought the French hotel company Groupe du Louvre, that has several hotel chains.  

 

Here, you will see Groupe du Louvre owns the Golden Tulip Hotels in Pattaya, but remember, a Chinese company owns them.

 

https://www.goldentulip.com/en-us/hotels-pattaya

 

Here, you will see information about the take over.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupe_du_Louvre

 

I've never stayed at the Tulip Hotels here, but if you were to take the time to research the ownership of the hotels here where the Chinese tourists stay, you will probably find that money makes its way back to China from quite a few of them.  

 

It's not always 100% ownership.  Sometimes, majority shareholder, or even just a stake in the subsidiary company.

 

Jin Jiang also own a 93% stake in Plateno, and we know Plateno is setting up here. 

 

Here's an article about that.

 

https://www.chinatravelnews.com/article/118066

 

 

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No casinos in Pattaya (yet) someone said, but plenty in sinkville cambo right? Actually casinos are now banned in cambo aren't they & on the drawing board for PTY yes? Will that attract more family quality tourism? Are the infrastructure ready?

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20 hours ago, johng said:

The empty shops also behind the "temporary walls"

P_20190707_154115.thumb.jpg.7e7867b73c8c92ce236ce2031ab80c00.jpg

That is a poor way to represent that Mall. Yes that basement floor is quiet, because there are no shops there and the food hall is closed off. Go up to the next level and higher, the place is usually busy. I found this just 3 days ago. 

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7 hours ago, Leaver said:

The trouble with this is beach encroachment. 

 

The Thai's ended up building permanent structures on the sand, and even blocking use of the sand in front of them.

 

When the Thai Army took control, they got rid of a lot of this. 

 

All these beach clubs were illegal.  No official leases etc.  Just corrupt payments, and it got out of control.

What beach clubs are you referring to where and when? ' Permanent structures on the sand? These types of things common all up and down the U. S. Eastern Coast : Music, Food/Drinks, showers. Here? Could be a good thing. 

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T-21 is awesome for the food selections, but I can't afford that type of shopping. Harbor Mall has fun stuff for the kids. You've got the aquariums, water slides. The old water slide next to the beach is great fun for the money. They got racing park out on # 36. Lots of motorcycle dealerships. It's fun to visit Pattaya for the day and also nice to get back home to a small beach town. If I were a single guy then Jomtein would be my choice to live. You don't have to be that guy drinking beer in the AM although morning beers are fun sometimes. So much more to Pattaya than the bar areas.

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7 hours ago, worldfun said:

No casinos in Pattaya (yet) someone said, but plenty in sinkville cambo right? Actually casinos are now banned in cambo aren't they & on the drawing board for PTY yes? Will that attract more family quality tourism? Are the infrastructure ready?

Sihanoukville has become an urban Chinese ghetto.  It attracts Chinese criminals and money launderers.

 

Vietnam has many casinos, and has nice beaches and good infrastructure.  It attracts western and high end Asian gamblers.

 

Here's their showcase casino. 

 

https://thegrandhotram.com/

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3 hours ago, jacko45k said:

That is a poor way to represent that Mall. Yes that basement floor is quiet, because there are no shops there and the food hall is closed off. Go up to the next level and higher, the place is usually busy. I found this just 3 days ago. 

I think it must be remembered that Central offers a pleasant walk connecting 2nd Road and Beach Road, which pedestrian traffic may take.  I know I have often walked through Central, with no intention of buying anything, just to walk between the two roads.

 

Also, Central has many different bank branches, and their ATM's, as well as the telecommunication shops.  These places are busy, and you often have to take a number, but there's nothing really being purchased in them. 

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2 hours ago, morrobay said:

What beach clubs are you referring to where and when? ' Permanent structures on the sand? These types of things common all up and down the U. S. Eastern Coast : Music, Food/Drinks, showers. Here? Could be a good thing. 

Pattaya's beach was too narrow for encroachment, except for the vendors selling things. 

 

Beach encroachment was a big issue on beaches throughout Thailand, particularly in Phuket. 

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This thread has went from Single White Guys to sewer systems and now shopping malls

If it is the Thai intention of stopping sex tourism fine but ultimately the Chinese tour groups is just one demographic.
The Chinese bring far more problems the drunken farang
When they set up their scamming centers as recent raids have shown both in Thailand & Cambodia
They operatre high end criminality
China had one of the biggest brothel towns in the world that Xi closed down and all those Chinese women had to go work somwwhere else
The Chinese buy sex but not in the bars they operate differntly though there are the usual massage parlors all around China with happy endings
Getting rid of one lot in favour of another unknown quantity may just bite Thailand in the ass


& of course when the army took control yes they cleaned things up a bit but it has stalled

 

You can never get rid of all the sex tourism you can move it around maybe they just want to reclaim Pattaya but where will it move to

If they were serious about getting rid of sex tourism then they would have closed NANA PLAZA a few years ago instead of giving it a refurburb ????????

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37 minutes ago, andy72 said:

China had one of the biggest brothel towns in the world that Xi closed down and all those Chinese women had to go work somwwhere else
The Chinese buy sex but not in the bars they operate differntly

A quick look at some hook up apps shows many Chinese hookers are freelancing in Pattaya.

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17 hours ago, champers said:

So you can't name just one Chinese owned hotel in Pattaya. The company you quote, Plateno, are working with local (Thai) investors and developers.

I found no Chinese owned hotels in Pattaya on google.

The LK Group for one.....LK= Leng Kee family :thumbsup:

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7 minutes ago, morrobay said:

Interesting and you can be sure they are very well "organised"

I think they are organised, because I sent a few girls a message, and the various replies, even in broken English, appeared to be written in the third person, so I assumed there was someone, somewhere, managing the profiles and messages, probably doing some translating, and co-oridinating the meetings.

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Just now, petermik said:

The LK Group for one.....LK= Leng Kee family :thumbsup:

In fairness champers, he asked for direct Chinese company ownership, not old Chinese - Thai family history.

 

I have given the example he asked for.

 

With a little research, one could find other Chinese company shareholder ownership for more hotels here. 

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1 hour ago, andy72 said:

This thread has went from Single White Guys to sewer systems and now shopping malls

If it is the Thai intention of stopping sex tourism fine but ultimately the Chinese tour groups is just one demographic.
The Chinese bring far more problems the drunken farang
When they set up their scamming centers as recent raids have shown both in Thailand & Cambodia
They operatre high end criminality
China had one of the biggest brothel towns in the world that Xi closed down and all those Chinese women had to go work somwwhere else
The Chinese buy sex but not in the bars they operate differntly though there are the usual massage parlors all around China with happy endings
Getting rid of one lot in favour of another unknown quantity may just bite Thailand in the ass


& of course when the army took control yes they cleaned things up a bit but it has stalled

 

You can never get rid of all the sex tourism you can move it around maybe they just want to reclaim Pattaya but where will it move to

If they were serious about getting rid of sex tourism then they would have closed NANA PLAZA a few years ago instead of giving it a refurburb ????????

Go to https://forum.thaivisa.com/ignore/ and add the word "Leaver".  Problem solved.

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39 minutes ago, shdmn said:

Go to https://forum.thaivisa.com/ignore/ and add the word "Leaver".  Problem solved.

Perhaps others are not so narrow minded as yourself.

 

Most threads broaden their scope after 10 pages.  I don't think it's off topic to discuss that Pattaya is changing its image to attract different tourists.  That said, Pattaya will always be famous for the sex trade, and it's not going away anytime soon.

 

I have no problem with the sex trade here, however, with a changing tourist demographic, it's obvious Pattaya has / will change to meet that demographic.  You call this "doom and gloom."  I call it inevitable.

 

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On 10/5/2019 at 9:25 AM, EVENKEEL said:

T-21 is awesome for the food selections, but I can't afford that type of shopping.

But as long as the mall looks busy with people going to the cheap food court, that's the main thing.  ????

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On 10/5/2019 at 12:09 AM, Leaver said:

As you may be aware, it's not unusual for one company to own several chains hotels, but that company is owned by another company, being the parent company.

 

This is just one example, after a quick Google around. 

 

Jin Jiang International Holdings is a huge Chinese company.  They bought the French hotel company Groupe du Louvre, that has several hotel chains.  

 

Here, you will see Groupe du Louvre owns the Golden Tulip Hotels in Pattaya, but remember, a Chinese company owns them.

 

https://www.goldentulip.com/en-us/hotels-pattaya

 

Here, you will see information about the take over.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groupe_du_Louvre

 

I've never stayed at the Tulip Hotels here, but if you were to take the time to research the ownership of the hotels here where the Chinese tourists stay, you will probably find that money makes its way back to China from quite a few of them.  

 

It's not always 100% ownership.  Sometimes, majority shareholder, or even just a stake in the subsidiary company.

 

Jin Jiang also own a 93% stake in Plateno, and we know Plateno is setting up here. 

 

Here's an article about that.

 

https://www.chinatravelnews.com/article/118066

 

 

Reviews online for the Golden Tulip places are mainly from South Asians.

I don't doubt that Chinese companies make money from Chinese tourists, just as Thais or any other nationalities would make money from taking tour groups to China. I take issue with the narrative that no Thais derive any benefit from Chinese tour groups. As I sit on the beach I see Chinese tour groups sailing off in Thai boats to go parasailing with Thai companies. Those that don't take part stay on the beach and occupy some chairs owned and rented by Thais, who sell them food and drinks.

As I have stated previously, more and more Chinese visit as Free Independant Travellers (FIT). Some are backpackers but many more stay in high end and mid range hotels that they book online, along with their flights on scheduled planes and not chartered.

I think you are aware of this trend because you mention the number of Chinese visitors staying at The Base condo complex. It is FIT tourists staying short term at condos bought in bulk by Chinese for that very purpose, though it should be remembered that 51% of those units are Thai owned. I would guess that much short term renting is profitting Thais as well as Chinese.

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On 10/5/2019 at 11:06 AM, Leaver said:

Perhaps others are not so narrow minded as yourself.

 

Most threads broaden their scope after 10 pages.  I don't think it's off topic to discuss that Pattaya is changing its image to attract different tourists.  That said, Pattaya will always be famous for the sex trade, and it's not going away anytime soon.

 

I have no problem with the sex trade here, however, with a changing tourist demographic, it's obvious Pattaya has / will change to meet that demographic.  You call this "doom and gloom."  I call it inevitable.

 

its going to start moving indoors to places like karaokes, discos and such.

 

the walking street stuff, beach road freelancers etc will slowly disappear. then girls will be limited to certain spots outside the bars, not walking out onto the road etc. all of which asian clientele are more comfortable with btw.

 

what we see today will be nostalgic.

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22 hours ago, champers said:

Reviews online for the Golden Tulip places are mainly from South Asians.

I don't doubt that Chinese companies make money from Chinese tourists, just as Thais or any other nationalities would make money from taking tour groups to China. I take issue with the narrative that no Thais derive any benefit from Chinese tour groups. As I sit on the beach I see Chinese tour groups sailing off in Thai boats to go parasailing with Thai companies. Those that don't take part stay on the beach and occupy some chairs owned and rented by Thais, who sell them food and drinks.

As I have stated previously, more and more Chinese visit as Free Independant Travellers (FIT). Some are backpackers but many more stay in high end and mid range hotels that they book online, along with their flights on scheduled planes and not chartered.

I think you are aware of this trend because you mention the number of Chinese visitors staying at The Base condo complex. It is FIT tourists staying short term at condos bought in bulk by Chinese for that very purpose, though it should be remembered that 51% of those units are Thai owned. I would guess that much short term renting is profitting Thais as well as Chinese.

I've never said no Thai's derive any benefit from the Chinese tourists.  It would be near impossible to travel to a foreign country, and not have any input into that country's economy.  Even if you bought imported food and beverage your whole holiday, there's still VAT to pay.

 

What I have said is the profits from the holiday package bought by the Chinese tourists, in general, benefits Chinese companies.  Remember, the holiday is purchased in China, and the Chinese tour groups are taken to Chinese run establishments when they are here.  You may even remember a fake temple made by the Chinese, for the Chinese tourists. 

 

I don't know about every parasail speed boat, but the Chinese companies do own boats and buses here.  The one that comes to mind is the big boat in Phuket, The Phoenix, that sank a while ago, killing several people.  It was basically Chinese owned.  

 

With The Base, I agree, the Chinese that stay there are independent travelers.  I have never seen a tour group coming and going from The Base.  I suppose if someone in China buys a condo there, the Thai Sinsiri group has profited, but the rent goes back to the Chinese owner, in China, so, once again, the money doesn't stay in the Thai economy. 

 

I believe many Chinese rent condo's at The Base on a yearly basis, at the cheaper rate, and then sublease the condo to short stay tourists.  This could also benefit a Thai, but once again, there is money going back to China, and leaving the Thai economy.  

 

The term "zero baht tourists" is not a myth, but the "zero" is an exaggeration.  A correct term would be "minimum baht tourists" because these tourists, in general, only really support minimum wage Thai's.  

 

 

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On 10/6/2019 at 10:24 PM, fhickson said:

its going to start moving indoors to places like karaokes, discos and such.

 

the walking street stuff, beach road freelancers etc will slowly disappear. then girls will be limited to certain spots outside the bars, not walking out onto the road etc. all of which asian clientele are more comfortable with btw.

 

what we see today will be nostalgic.

I agree.

 

I also think a lot of it will move into the cyber world, where the girls will freelance off apps.  This is happening already.

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