Prayut orders armed forces to study possibility of voluntary military conscription

[BobbyL]

A good idea from him for once. Mandatory military conscription is completely unnecessary in this day and age, especially for a country like Thailand who have never been directly involved in any major war in modern history. 

[chainarong]

Its about time Thailand military came up the modern age era, for years the commanders have voiced they don't want anyone who doesn't want to be there , as the intake age is 21 years, it interferes with Uni , as some places where the conscripts are posted don't have the same uni courses (as happened to my young fella) as for national security , Thailand has enough personal  in its armed forces to manage any imaginary enemy.

[billd766]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

I like my way, and thankfully that it is voluntary. I like when its voluntary then people can make their own choices. 

So was mine. I volunteered and I had wanted to join the RAF since I was about 10 or 11 years old and that was my choice. I can't remember anybody in my family ever being in the RAF and at the start of WW2 the youngest would have been about 32 I think.

[robblok]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

So was mine. I volunteered and I had wanted to join the RAF since I was about 10 or 11 years old and that was my choice. I can't remember anybody in my family ever being in the RAF and at the start of WW2 the youngest would have been about 32 I think.

I just hate it when people are conscripted. It almost happened to me what a waste of time and money that would be. Its just stupid to want to conscript people. You get unmotivated people that way. Just my opinion an professional smaller army is always the best way.

[Eric Loh]

26 minutes ago, robblok said:

I just hate it when people are conscripted. It almost happened to me what a waste of time and money that would be. Its just stupid to want to conscript people. You get unmotivated people that way. Just my opinion an professional smaller army is always the best way.

Perhaps a personal think. I was highly motivated to be conscripted and to be able to serve my country. In my 3 years as National Serviceman, I learn skills and discipline that I find valuable to me in my career. In a small country like mine, we need a deterrent to ward of troubling intention of surrounding bigger countries that have much larger and powerful military force. The peace and prosperity that we enjoy now is a testimony of the success of the conscription policy. 

[scorecard]

3 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps a personal think. I was highly motivated to be conscripted and to be able to serve my country. In my 3 years as National Serviceman, I learn skills and discipline that I find valuable to me in my career. In a small country like mine, we need a deterrent to ward of troubling intention of surrounding bigger countries that have much larger and powerful military force. The peace and prosperity that we enjoy now is a testimony of the success of the conscription policy. 

That's also my understanding re national service in singapore (it's commonly referred to as national service NS in Singapore, not the word conscription) but from the comments I've heard over the years (including from S'pore employees of my company), it's a whole different ballgame compared to Thai conscription, and I've heard many positive comments re S'pore NS especially the professional knowledge gained which is very often useful in terms of career after NS (my understanding is that many young men leave S'pore NS with a degree or some form of well accepted and valuable diploma or similar. It seems to be very well planned and organized and young Singaporean men see NS as their duty not so much as a waste of time. A whole different ballgame to the Thai set up.

 

Somehow, unfortunately I rather doubt that Thailand could easily / quickly adopt the S'pore NS model (if they wanted to), too much old baggage and old process in the picture, and old attitudes and behaviors.

 

What might work is for a complete overhaul of the whole Thai military structure in Thailand including a massive reduction in officer numbers and removal of automatic promotions and focus on 'class no:' stuff. IMHO Thailand could approach this by a well known goal and actions to build but highly professional military and attractive for young men to volunteer (because they would leave with something valuable).

 

But of course I'm not holding my breath.

 

Roll on FF. 

 

Yes I have been in the military, I saw action in the Vietnam war (entered through compulsory conscription but on the ground duties same as 'regular' soldiers).

[robblok]

23 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Perhaps a personal think. I was highly motivated to be conscripted and to be able to serve my country. In my 3 years as National Serviceman, I learn skills and discipline that I find valuable to me in my career. In a small country like mine, we need a deterrent to ward of troubling intention of surrounding bigger countries that have much larger and powerful military force. The peace and prosperity that we enjoy now is a testimony of the success of the conscription policy. 

I guess I am different learned discipline in the gym, got my education at good schools even a private one in the end. Later studied more during my work. Never felt the need to learn how to kill people and how to drink beer (think that is what they teach you in service at least in my country). Never really understood nationalists as I love to think for my own. Not like the hive mind that is created in the military. 

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, scorecard said:

That's also my understanding re national service in singapore (it's commonly referred to as national service NS in Singapore, not the word conscription) but from the comments I've heard over the years (including from S'pore employees of my company), it's a whole different ballgame compared to Thai conscription, and I've heard many positive comments re S'pore NS especially the professional knowledge gained which is very often useful in terms of career after NS (my understanding is that many young men leave S'pore NS with a degree or some form of well accepted and valuable diploma or similar. It seems to be very well planned and organized and young Singaporean men see NS as their duty not so much as a waste of time. A whole different ballgame to the Thai set up.

 

Somehow, unfortunately I rather doubt that Thailand could easily / quickly adopt the S'pore NS model (if they wanted to), too much old baggage and old process in the picture, and old attitudes and behaviors.

 

What might work is for a complete overhaul of the whole Thai military structure in Thailand including a massive reduction in officer numbers and removal of automatic promotions and focus on 'class no:' stuff. IMHO Thailand could approach this by a well known goal and actions to build but highly professional military and attractive for young men to volunteer (because they would leave with something valuable).

 

But of course I'm not holding my breath.

 

Roll on FF. 

 

Yes I have been in the military, I saw action in the Vietnam war (entered through compulsory conscription but on the ground duties same as 'regular' soldiers).

You right that we don't use the word conscription but rather use 'National Service' which has a better connotation. It was instituted in 1967 when we have only about 1,000 full time military force after the British decided to withdraw its troops and bases in Singapore.

 

National Service registration begins when you reach the age of 16 and 6 months which seem ideal as most leave secondary school and likely to be not employed. Thailand conscription begins at 20 which I think is not rational and most at that age will be working, university and even have families. 

 

You are required to serve to 40 in the reserve force and each year you undergo fitness test and you have to pass or you do repeats. Every one is assigned to a regular unit and involved in training and military exercises. You can be called up at any time. This again is missing in Thailand conscription. 

 

I can go on and state the inadequacies of the Thai's conscription which to me is a big letdown and really should be overhauled or terminated. Like you, I am not holding my breathe.

 

You have one over me on seeing action in the Vietnam war. Good on you mate.

 

 

 

 

 

   

[Saint Nick]

Not gonna happen!

At all!

Ever!

[scorecard]

1 hour ago, robblok said:

I guess I am different learned discipline in the gym, got my education at good schools even a private one in the end. Later studied more during my work. Never felt the need to learn how to kill people and how to drink beer (think that is what they teach you in service at least in my country). Never really understood nationalists as I love to think for my own. Not like the hive mind that is created in the military. 

 

Sure, not for everybody, and I would hope that one day there is no need for military at all, globally, because the human race has realized and fully adopted discussion as an agreed way solve all problems. And having had war experience I can attest that ultimately 99% of the soldiers I served with (including me) very quickly became totally disillusioned, even angry (incl. me) when we realized that our lives were meaningless and we were just expendable political pawns.  

 

But of course 'discussion' as the only way to solve disputes is unlikely to happen soon or perhaps even ever. 

 

From my understanding most countries who don't have compulsory national service seem to be able to attract enough volunteers who want to enter the military and in many cases it's because they gain value for the rest of their lives. Seems to be good from at least the longer-term value.

 

 

[robblok]

1 minute ago, scorecard said:

 

Sure, not for everybody, and I would hope that one day there is no need for military at all, globally, because the human race has realized and fully adopted discussion as an agreed way solve all problems. And having had war experience I can attest that ultimately 99% of the soldiers I served with (including me) very quickly became totally disillusioned, even angry (incl. me) when we realized that our lives were meaningless and we were just expendable political pawns.  

 

But of course 'discussion' as the only way to solve disputes is unlikely to happen soon or perhaps even ever. 

 

From my understanding most countries who don't have compulsory national service seem to be able to attract enough volunteers who want to enter the military and in many cases it's because they gain value for the rest of their lives. Seems to be good from at least the longer-term value.

 

 

Sure I know there should always be soldiers as unfortunately talking does not always help. But best to have professional soldiers then not conscripts. My country now has a professional army. Its far better to spend money on a smaller professional well trained army then on some conscripts. 

 

But to be honest do you see Mexico invading the US ? or an other war in western Europe. I don't see it happening. The wars are now all in the middle east and Africa. Sure we will have to keep China and Russia in check but even those don't want war. War hurts most people and is not good for economies. (in general). Only stupid small countries want war and of course countries like the US who can fight a war and not take it home. If it came home I am sure the US would not have many wars anymore. 

[Eric Loh]

7 minutes ago, robblok said:

Its far better to spend money on a smaller professional well trained army then on some conscripts. 

A rather debatable point. Israel with mostly conscripted personnel fought and won wars. South Korea conscripts have fought their northern neighbors gallantly. All depend on how well trained and the efficiency and effectiveness of your conscription overall policies and plan. 

[billd766]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

I guess I am different learned discipline in the gym, got my education at good schools even a private one in the end. Later studied more during my work. Never felt the need to learn how to kill people and how to drink beer (think that is what they teach you in service at least in my country). Never really understood nationalists as I love to think for my own. Not like the hive mind that is created in the military. 

All the armed Forces in the UK are taught basic weapon drills in basic training, (You also have one day per year to brush up on your weapons training) after which they are Trade Training for a period of time depending on skill levels before promotion to a higher rank. Extra education is available and nowadays many guys leave after their service are up with degrees. They can also get day release for extra education in civil establishments.

 

A great many ex servicemen and women are in demand in civvy because of their skills, willingness to work hard to do a good job, general fitness and their reliability.

 

There is no such thing as a hive mentality in the UK Forces nor the need to be taught how to drink beer.

 

If you have never served then you will never know what it is all about.

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, billd766 said:

All the armed Forces in the UK are taught basic weapon drills in basic training, (You also have one day per year to brush up on your weapons training) after which they are Trade Training for a period of time depending on skill levels before promotion to a higher rank. Extra education is available and nowadays many guys leave after their service are up with degrees. They can also get day release for extra education in civil establishments.

 

A great many ex servicemen and women are in demand in civvy because of their skills, willingness to work hard to do a good job, general fitness and their reliability.

 

There is no such thing as a hive mentality in the UK Forces nor the need to be taught how to drink beer.

 

If you have never served then you will never know what it is all about.

That is what you say, i know what i have been told from people who served in the army of my country as a conscript. They all were talking about boredom and drinking beer. It might be different in the UK but certainly not in my country.

 

I don't believe you about no hive mind in the UK military as military the world round are based on following orders not thinking for yourself. I must laugh a bit about general fitness and willingness to work hard. You act like those are traits of a soldier. They are not, you either have these traits or you don't. Nothing to do with the army, me thinks you glorify it a bit too much. 

 

Quite common to glorify things but because you have not lead the life I did you cannot comment on the advantages of not serving and keeping a free and open mind.

[robblok]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

A rather debatable point. Israel with mostly conscripted personnel fought and won wars. South Korea conscripts have fought their northern neighbors gallantly. All depend on how well trained and the efficiency and effectiveness of your conscription overall policies and plan. 

True its debateable, but in general a professional army is better as a conscript army. Israel is of course an exception but they take the military really serious in that country. They have too, otherwise there is no more Israel.

[billd766]

19 minutes ago, robblok said:

That is what you say, i know what i have been told from people who served in the army of my country as a conscript. They all were talking about boredom and drinking beer. It might be different in the UK but certainly not in my country.

 

I don't believe you about no hive mind in the UK military as military the world round are based on following orders not thinking for yourself. I must laugh a bit about general fitness and willingness to work hard. You act like those are traits of a soldier. They are not, you either have these traits or you don't. Nothing to do with the army, me thinks you glorify it a bit too much. 

 

Quite common to glorify things but because you have not lead the life I did you cannot comment on the advantages of not serving and keeping a free and open mind.

quote "Quite common to glorify things but because you have not lead the life I did you cannot comment on the advantages of not serving and keeping a free and open mind.

 

Personally I don't care what you think and nor did I glorify it in any way. As I have said before, if you never try it then you will never know.

 

Therefore following your last paragraph, you cannot comment on the advantages of serving in the military especially as your experience of the military was obtained from a friend who was a conscript and is second hand at best.

 

Since I left I have worked for the UK government, Vodafone in the UK plus Motorola in the UK and offshore building mobile phone networks and a further 10 years as a self employed contractor doing the same thing in different countries.

 

I have had a 50 year working life. How about you?

[robblok]

31 minutes ago, billd766 said:

quote "Quite common to glorify things but because you have not lead the life I did you cannot comment on the advantages of not serving and keeping a free and open mind.

 

Personally I don't care what you think and nor did I glorify it in any way. As I have said before, if you never try it then you will never know.

 

Therefore following your last paragraph, you cannot comment on the advantages of serving in the military especially as your experience of the military was obtained from a friend who was a conscript and is second hand at best.

 

Since I left I have worked for the UK government, Vodafone in the UK plus Motorola in the UK and offshore building mobile phone networks and a further 10 years as a self employed contractor doing the same thing in different countries.

 

I have had a 50 year working life. How about you?

Sorry unlike you I just don't think that the armed forces are such a good idea and bring out the best in people. I believe that people who are smart / good will find their way anyway. I don't believe the B.S. of being in the army making a man and that kind of <deleted>. 

 

I never served got an university education worked at a firm that traded stock as head of IT and back-office. Worked at an accountancy office and had my own accounting firm for years. So I have had quite a good working life and I did not even need to be in the service.

 

Your opinions are those that old guys often have, my dad never served, but was a merchant marine with a great track record and employment history well above yours. My brother also never served did a little less but still good. 

 

Sorry bild766 I am just not of the same opinion you are I don't see the armed forces especially conscription as a good thing. Volunteering is a different thing. My opinion is simple smart people don't need to go to the army they will shine anyway. Everyone is born with a certain amount of intelligence and skills and those things will depend how you end up. Not if you go to the army or not.

 

 

[evadgib]

On 9/21/2019 at 1:09 PM, Longcut said:

I have a nephew that is in the Thai Army. He works full time in Bangkok at a civilian job. He lets his superiors at the army base have his army pay so that he does not have to report back to duty. Apparently this is a common practice. He is a private but they would promote him 2 grades in rank for 100,000 baht. He decided not to go that way. He gets out of the army in November. 

  By the way, he volunteered. 

That's not an Army.

[evadgib]

40 minutes ago, robblok said:

Sorry unlike you I just don't think that the armed forces are such a good idea and bring out the best in people. I believe that people who are smart / good will find their way anyway. I don't believe the B.S. of being in the army making a man and that kind of <deleted>. 

 

I never served got an university education worked at a firm that traded stock as head of IT and back-office. Worked at an accountancy office and had my own accounting firm for years. So I have had quite a good working life and I did not even need to be in the service.

 

Your opinions are those that old guys often have, my dad never served, but was a merchant marine with a great track record and employment history well above yours. My brother also never served did a little less but still good. 

 

Sorry bild766 I am just not of the same opinion you are I don't see the armed forces especially conscription as a good thing. Volunteering is a different thing. My opinion is simple smart people don't need to go to the army they will shine anyway. Everyone is born with a certain amount of intelligence and skills and those things will depend how you end up. Not if you go to the army or not.

A reminder from your homeland a few days ago Rob.

 

[DILLIGAD]

There is nothing wrong with the current system of involuntary conscription.  It gives the youth of today a wonderful opportunity to  learn a new skill set.  Where else can You go to become a "Lean Green Killing Machine".

Years ago a young lad in our village offered to cut my lawn because he said that he had a lot of experience of doing the job
I asked where did he work and with a puzzled look on his face, he said ‘In the army, of course!’


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[billd766]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Sorry unlike you I just don't think that the armed forces are such a good idea and bring out the best in people. I believe that people who are smart / good will find their way anyway. I don't believe the B.S. of being in the army making a man and that kind of <deleted>. 

 

I never served got an university education worked at a firm that traded stock as head of IT and back-office. Worked at an accountancy office and had my own accounting firm for years. So I have had quite a good working life and I did not even need to be in the service.

 

Your opinions are those that old guys often have, my dad never served, but was a merchant marine with a great track record and employment history well above yours. My brother also never served did a little less but still good. 

 

Sorry bild766 I am just not of the same opinion you are I don't see the armed forces especially conscription as a good thing. Volunteering is a different thing. My opinion is simple smart people don't need to go to the army they will shine anyway. Everyone is born with a certain amount of intelligence and skills and those things will depend how you end up. Not if you go to the army or not.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

National Service ended gradually from 1957.[4] It was decided that those born on or after 1 October 1939 would not be required, but conscription continued for those born earlier whose call-up had been delayed for any reason.[5] In November 1960 the last men entered service, as call-ups formally ended on 31 December 1960, and the last National Servicemen left the armed forces in May 1963.

 

That would be 56 years ago the last guys were discharged.

 

The difference between you and I, is that I have served my country and enjoyed most of it.

 

I then had a second career outside of it rarely sitting in an office anywhere I worked.

[robblok]

15 hours ago, billd766 said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription_in_the_United_Kingdom

 

National Service ended gradually from 1957.[4] It was decided that those born on or after 1 October 1939 would not be required, but conscription continued for those born earlier whose call-up had been delayed for any reason.[5] In November 1960 the last men entered service, as call-ups formally ended on 31 December 1960, and the last National Servicemen left the armed forces in May 1963.

 

That would be 56 years ago the last guys were discharged.

 

The difference between you and I, is that I have served my country and enjoyed most of it.

 

I then had a second career outside of it rarely sitting in an office anywhere I worked.

Yes I guess the difference is that I am really glad i never got to waste my time in the army. Like i said in my country it was for losers. The really smart people stayed on school as long as they could to avoid being drafted. (so the higher educated ones had a less chance of wasting their time).

 

You are talking about wanting it, then there is no problem. I am just against forcing it and against the notion that an army makes men out of boys. That is all feel good propaganda. 

 

Happy that you enjoyed your path.. I enjoyed my path. But the thing is you chose it you were not forced into it. Just imagine the difference in mentality if you were forced to do it.