Urgent advice, getting rid of psychopath Thai brother...

[davemos]

I had a gf son who was violent and on yabba He beat up his mother I took him to gov rehab ..no good. My by now ex took him to a doctor who prescribed anti psychotic drugs .He is very docile now but requires supervision to take his meds. I decided that the only solution was to remove myself from possible harms way . Ice is a horror drug and few come back from it  Good luck!

[MartiniMan]

He is taking advantage of you and making you a joke

Couple golden rules

Never allow someones irresponsibility to affect you

Never feel pressured, only do from the heart. Do not pay other peoples debts. Explain to him its not buddhist / christian / whatever you believe in

Stay calm you loose everything if you get angry or fight u have lost everything. You must stay very cool and calm. Always stay cool never resort to violence you have lost EVERYTHING even you beat him you also loose because of the way law is designed here, even in self defence you also lost if you as much as cut his finger. So you cannot walk that way.

The only resort is by the higher road. Write down your thoughts and prepare a letter to your wife. Explain that you cannot deal with this irresponsibility that he has created.

Ensure the debts are out of your name and no longer an issue for you. Never talk with him and never look him in the face any more. Distance yourself and if he arrives you leave. Stop any communication this is the best tradition to copy. Essentially you have turned you back, you do not need to announce this. In Thailand actions speak much louder then words.

When your wife asks you why you behave in this way, produce the letter or note and remind her of the situation. Try to bullet point the facts as they find it hard to process information. If you can boil it down to 2 main points you will be lucky if she can remember one. So just make sure that the most important point that he has had money from you and been irresponsible is clear.

Go to the temple with your wife if you have friction so that the monk can explain to her the issue. Once it is clear she will understand your side and defend you.

Basically you must make it clear and take it to the turning point, the apex of that being making your wife comprehend the suffering, miss-fortune and total irresponsibility that has occurred. Before that she will be defensive and protect her family, but once she see's that the brother has completely ruined your mental peace and destroyed your 'sathi' your meditation your inner peace, she will realise it's a bad karma and really rude. 

At that point expect fireworks but don't be around. The whole family will likely turn on him once they realise as it sounds like he took advantage of you, never say that. Allow them to come to that conclusion by showing the facts and always be very calm and of the manner 'i want to help but look at this, is this normal?' always use this line of questioning. Don't make accusations just show what happened and you may need to explain patiently a few times but eventually she will conclude that its a <deleted> show and her brother is a total ass

It will only be her conclusion that gets you the result you want, so you must just present it all as honest and open as you can and make sure it's not a shouting match because you will loose the only way to win with a local is with intelligence as they are (in no offence meant) very basic when it comes to philosophy and the school is very weak in teaching so really just imagine (and i mean this with no offence at all!!!) you are explaining this with a middle school or elementary friend in the playground. I know that is rude but honestly it is on that level. Now you may get the result you wish. Remember they just don't have the comprehension foreigners do because their education is incredibly basic and they don't read or travel.
 

[kingofthemountain]

9 minutes ago, MartiniMan said:

He is taking advantage of you and making you a joke

Couple golden rules

Never allow someones irresponsibility to affect you

Never feel pressured, only do from the heart. Do not pay other peoples debts. Explain to him its not buddhist / christian / whatever you believe in

Stay calm you loose everything if you get angry or fight u have lost everything. You must stay very cool and calm. Always stay cool never resort to violence you have lost EVERYTHING even you beat him you also loose because of the way law is designed here, even in self defence you also lost if you as much as cut his finger. So you cannot walk that way.

The only resort is by the higher road. Write down your thoughts and prepare a letter to your wife. Explain that you cannot deal with this irresponsibility that he has created.

Ensure the debts are out of your name and no longer an issue for you. Never talk with him and never look him in the face any more. Distance yourself and if he arrives you leave. Stop any communication this is the best tradition to copy. Essentially you have turned you back, you do not need to announce this. In Thailand actions speak much louder then words.

When your wife asks you why you behave in this way, produce the letter or note and remind her of the situation. Try to bullet point the facts as they find it hard to process information. If you can boil it down to 2 main points you will be lucky if she can remember one. So just make sure that the most important point that he has had money from you and been irresponsible is clear.

Go to the temple with your wife if you have friction so that the monk can explain to her the issue. Once it is clear she will understand your side and defend you.

Basically you must make it clear and take it to the turning point, the apex of that being making your wife comprehend the suffering, miss-fortune and total irresponsibility that has occurred. Before that she will be defensive and protect her family, but once she see's that the brother has completely ruined your mental peace and destroyed your 'sathi' your meditation your inner peace, she will realise it's a bad karma and really rude. 

At that point expect fireworks but don't be around. The whole family will likely turn on him once they realise as it sounds like he took advantage of you, never say that. Allow them to come to that conclusion by showing the facts and always be very calm and of the manner 'i want to help but look at this, is this normal?' always use this line of questioning. Don't make accusations just show what happened and you may need to explain patiently a few times but eventually she will conclude that its a <deleted> show and her brother is a total ass

It will only be her conclusion that gets you the result you want, so you must just present it all as honest and open as you can and make sure it's not a shouting match because you will loose the only way to win with a local is with intelligence as they are (in no offence meant) very basic when it comes to philosophy and the school is very weak in teaching so really just imagine (and i mean this with no offence at all!!!) you are explaining this with a middle school or elementary friend in the playground. I know that is rude but honestly it is on that level. Now you may get the result you wish. Remember they just don't have the comprehension foreigners do because their education is incredibly basic and they don't read or travel.
 

You are very optimistic

basically your plan could work with ''normal'' people

but here i have some doubts for the both sides involved

[Blue Muton]

16 hours ago, worgeordie said:

Electric fence next, is it Colin.

regards worgeordie

I think Ken Bates has a secondhand one going cheap.

[AverageBloke]

Is it possible to ask your daughter and your GF to come and live at your residence? If you can do that I would also temporarily cut myself off from the rest of family. By doing this you are not only increasing you and your child's safety but also sending a message to the family that this is their problem and unless they stand up and show some tough love then things will never be the same and the good life that exsisted once before may never return. 

[kingofthemountain]

6 hours ago, dotpoom said:

Good idea....what about his daughter?

It's one of the unclear things in the story

she is really his daughter or she is the daughter the actual GF

have had with another man?

(It could be given that he actualy lives most of the time by his choice in an other location)

 

 

[FarFlungFalang]

The little emperor syndrome or in my case the psychotic little emperor.Reading your post I see many similar issues that I've had to deal with in regards to our son (my stepson).Sometimes I glimpse something which might be considered a good person mostly I see a self entitled little kent,combine that with serious mental health issues,yaba,alcohol and a machete in each hand then if one uses all of ones abitility to make things calm the situation can be resolved without trips to hospital and court.

Martini man has good advice about remaining calm.If you want to stay I would also advise avoiding contact with the brother or having anything to do with his affairs or him.Try deleting him from your brain which is far better occupied with thoughts that don't include oxygen thieves like him.He is one of the look at me crowd.The more you think about him the more he wins,the less you think about him the more you win.This is quite difficult to achieve but I can say makes life more enjoyable.I just ignore the problem and hope it goes away and it usually does,about every 3 months the son ends up in the Ubon Mental Hospital for another round of nurse Ratchet's "it's medication time".

[AI5AASIA]

18 hours ago, ratcatcher said:

Shocking, just shocking!!

I was thinking a real belter

[Raymonddiaz]

TAKE YOUR DAUGHTER WITH YOU AND RUN......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................

[Jane Dough]

My ex wife put in a walkway made of crazy paving. 

 

I refer to it as the psycho-path. 

 

Rooster 

 

 

[davemos]

Talk to the family and convince them a doctor will cure him .The medicine is enough to stop his violence. They will be.happy too and. then everyone can get on normally .Ice is dangerous..stay away when hes on that The family must be hurting too.  .A doctor or hospital is a good soloution at very little cost and effort. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, jmansilla said:

Thanks, not sure how that would work out, the mother lives across from the daughter and girlfriend on the same little Soi!

A friend of mine ended up with a problematic brother in law. The wife's brother was still at school when they married and they lived in a house he had built next to the family. As the lad got older he went on drugs and alcohol and continually broke into their house stealing everything he could get his hands on. My friend took on a shop some distance away but the house became a wreck and then the shop became the target. He had him locked up but as soon as he was out it started over.

In the end he took his daughter back to the UK and the wife had to wait about 9 months for her visa, went and lived with friends during that time.

Unfortunately there is no easy way out.

[Captain 776]

 

 

If the scumbag is all u say he is and I have no reason to doubt you............the fuse is lit..........it is not a matter of IF this blows up, just WHEN and how BAD.

 

Know that your life is in serious danger.

 

Dont give any consideration to motorbike, pressure washer or any other useless trinket..........save your life~!!

Walk away........completely.

 

You can not win in this situation, even if you succeeded putting away for a few months, that will only make him more determined to get you.

Take anything you consider valuable to you, WALK AWAY and NEVER LQQK BACK.

For sure you are funding all of their lives, they will quickly sink and drown without you.

 

Take your things and leave no forwarding address or phone number, the family will quickly turn on him for sacrificing the ATM BUFF-A- RO......that being YOU.

Let them all self destruct on their own...........at least you will still be alive.

 

Learn from this mistake which is made in Thailand every day.

Especially if she is less than 1/2 your age and you took her from a bar.

[Captain 776]

“No experience building a house for a girlfriend, but no one in their right mind would build a house on the same soi next to their family or in-laws where I come from.  Guess it is more common in Thailand, IDK”

 

Rule # 1.........NEVER go to her village

 

Rule # 1 A.......NEVER EVER build a house in her village

 

Do like I said in my answer below or Page 5.

 

Take anything you consider valuable........that isn’t a motorbike or pressure washer and leave while you are still alive.

[wreckingcountry]

Got yourself in a hole with that family ! Naive


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[BritManToo]

3 hours ago, kingofthemountain said:

It's one of the unclear things in the story

she is really his daughter or she is the daughter the actual GF

have had with another man?

or the daughter of the gf and the violent 'brother'?

I always understood a lot of the anger from the 'brother' was because he didn't like the foreigner banging his wife.

[pookondee]

 Go hire a hotel in Bangkok. 

Tell them you fear for your life and are flying back home for a short holiday.

 

Tell them you must pay for flights, and hotels are expensive at home,

so sorry, you must cut EVERYONE off from

ALL funding..until you get back.

 

Turn off your sim, have an indulgent carefree stay in Bangkok.

1 month should do it.

 

I think you'll be suprised at how amazingly quick the family sorts out the "problem" that potentially threatens the food bowl.

 

Ive noticed in situations like this

Thais will just keep just taking you for granted and never appreciate what you do for them... until your "gone"

 

You really only have to do it once and youll find a lot of things will improve.

It worked for me anyway!

 

   

[Dolmance]

7 hours ago, sillyfool said:

offer him a big hug ? ????

 

either one of you goes away or the problem it seems won't. when you keep butting heads with a thai ...sounds like you know where it leads. 

 

as hard as it might be moving away to another place in thailand with your gf and daughter that may be the solution. all be it the hardest choice to make it seems. maybe offer a gift basket to him as a way to make amends. 

 

 

good luck and stay safe. 

 

 

I like that.  Do they have something we call "White Oleander" back home.  Give him a potted plant of the stuff and tell him it works better than alcohol.

[Lacessit]

Relocate. Close the ATM. Make it clear to your GF the ATM will remain closed until the family sorts out the brother. If they can't do it, walk away.

Ice addicts are dangerous people. Zero inhibitions, prone to violence. No mileage in trying to solve someone else's problem.

[Skallywag]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

I always understood a lot of the anger from the 'brother' was because he didn't like the foreigner banging his wife.

I knew you go there Mr. BritMantoo.  I held my cynicism, but thought it should be said. 

Reality bites.

 

Ah the tangled webs we weave, or webs woven by others who we fall in lust/love with.  

 

[jmansilla]

On 9/22/2019 at 5:18 AM, jmansilla said:

I have a Thai girlfriend that lives in a house I built for her and my daughter since her family lives there and there is a good school, also I can't tolerate the Thai family BS and drama, nor living with a Thai lady, they are about 10 minutes away and live alone during the week due to my work schedule and need for good internet. I have always gotten along well with my girlfriends father and his new wife who live next door, her mother lives across the street and I realized the mother is somewhere past Venus, along with the youngest sister who is also a derelict, alcoholic thief, but only shows up a few times a year to create family chaos. I had only heard about the younger brother, nothing good but also about 2 minutes after meeting him that he was an apple that didn't fall far from the tree.

Not sure how this has gotten so off course but it's complicated! No she is not a bar girl, she was attending the last year at Thammasat University, after she graduated she started working at BK Bank and is now a manager at the small branch near us so she makes her own money. Whatever money I spent on the house was not an issue and is mainly so my daughter has a somewhat Westerner style house and, normal shower, kitchen, bedrooms, living room etc but on the out side is pretty much like a nice Thai house. I knew the mother for a year before dating and even then she never lived with me and had her own life until the pregnancy which was 2 years later, we moved here a year after the child was born and I was tired of BKK and work mostly remotely so I only have to work in BKK or HK 4-6 times a year!  Come on, even the best birth control is what 80-99% effective but I have no regrets since we have a great daughter but I realized she for the most part will be separated from the mother, maybe as she gets older she may move and live in my country when she is maybe 14-21, who knows she has a pretty peaceful life but not much to offer where she lives when she gets that old.

 

All has been fine for the past 6+ years here and all this started maybe 4 months ago but the brother stayed at the Temple until he left, he worked for about a month but things got really bad when he was fired and had no income and again became a parasite to the family, the father does not really speak to him or acknowledge his presence. The mother is probably typical, her son is an Angel and can do no wrong, the oldest daughter supports the mother of the brother and paid for the house they live in. That daughter has cut the mother off from any monthly support until the brother leaves which has only been a few weeks now. I am an idiot for lighting the fuse but just fed up with the Thai "Don't lose face" BS and probably snapped a bit when the brother walked over to pick up the fence board, as in "really, you want to kill me because I don't allow you to use my pressure washer to wash your stolen motorbike" I have stayed away since the incidence as hard as it is, they stayed with me this past weekend so I get time with my daughter.

 

Today there seems to be at least some progress, the police know where he buys the drugs and also the need to catch him actually riding the bike to do things as legal as possible so I am trying to be patient and staying away, they can't monitor and watch him 24 hours a day so more on that later.

 

Anyway, maybe ask more details instead of just assuming it's a cookie cutter situation, I was here in Thailand 6 years before meeting this lady so I have pretty much seen and heard it all and knew what I was doing and into, this one was a curve ball and should have just left things alone and kept my distance and have my daughter come here on the weekends and let the situation with the brother take it's course, he has pretty much worn out his welcome and is running out of options and also making more enemies other than me to keep him occupied! Where I live is pretty safe, there are 2 gates, bars on the few windows I have and a sturdy steel entrance door, I have a louisville slugger near that door on top of a storage cabinet and one under the bed. I have always thought about a gun but being a foreigner and using it even with an intruder would probably not turn out well and hard to justify vs the slugger.

 

Also, Thailand is not the only place to live where you can have your life perfectly planned out and <deleted> happens, bad neighbors move in, you look at an unknown psychopath who stalks you, someone you refused money to or were not friendly to, one of the family members marries or starts dating trouble, some undesirables plot to break into your house and kill you because you have a vault full of gold, you get tossed off a balcony while on vacation, just crazy <deleted> and a thousand other things so sitting on your high horse is just ignorance, no one is 100% immune to the thousands of things that can happen in life, just watch the news here, how many Thai's just snap, a lot seem to be on a short fuse regardless, just look at the daily stuff that happens with the Thai's vs other Thai's! I am also not sure of the real statistics, it's maybe less than 1% of Thai females work in massage or a bar and the vast majority of expats or tourists don't go near or have any desire to have anything to do with that activity but that is always what people assume, how many Thai celebrities get married and it turns into a nightmare physically and financially, it's just funny the conclusion that educated foreigners make without asking more details, does a doctor immediately do brain surgery because you have a migraine? Food for thought for some, doing otherwise just shows ignorance and even worse coming from Foreigners who are educated and live in civilized cultures!

 

Also forgive the long post's I think fast and type 80+ WPM so it doesn't take long to give all the info and details to TRY to avoid ignorant and irrelevant response but like I say, there is always that ONE guy, but on forums there seem to be hundreds of those people!

 

 

[quandow]

In ANY situation you have three options:
 

1. Accept it

2. Change it

3. Move away from it

 

Your choice, up to you.

[3421abc]

First if all he is not a psychopath. No one can tell who is a true psychopath and they say cool under the most stressful situations, they are high manipulators and smooth talkers, they also have no fear of anything.

 

Your in law is just a crazy person, maybe a sociopath, definitely not a psychopath.

 

Sell the house and move far away. 

[Captain 776]

Go with the majority of the sensible answers..........many say, get out of there you are in potential danger.

Another said, tell her you are going home for a month or 2, let them think you are not here, go to anywhere in Thailand you feel comfortable............this ties in to my first response to you..........once you cut them off, the family will be all over him for it.

These guys on ice n yahbah are very unpredictable...........and you have been here 12 yrs or more and heard many stories..........it will not get better on its own, this situation will fester in his mind and then one day......the thoughts, the alcohol, and the ice can trigger an event you dont want to be part of.

 

I apologize for thinking your wife was from bar...........but you know that is typically the root cause of these problems.

 

best of luck

[The Theory]

You should see the situation long ago before you get involve (building a house in their town) much with this family. As long as he is around there will be no peace. He is part of their family even though he is a psycho. 

Leave and survive or stay in hell.  

[kingofthemountain]

It's turn a little bit funny since you call for an emergency urgent advice get ride of a psychopat thai brother

and after most of us give you the best advice with the few things you gave us to know, it seems now you 

are very shocked by some of the assumptions made here and here.

Honestly if your situation was so critic, it should be the last of your concern, and i start to believe all of this is just some BS from a troll or something like that.

 

Also 2 or 3 little details, your GF works in a bank and you seems to have no problem of money too, then why do not rent a house it should be easy for you two, Why you build the house? Why you pay it if she has a good wages and an easy acces to the loan? Why build the house for your GF and your daughter in the family village if obviously you do not want to live inside with them? Sorry i don't get it.

 

And the oldest sister support the mother?

Since when? All this time in Thailand and you do not know that is ALWAYS the younger daughter which is in charge of the support of the parents, particulary here since the younger sister (Your gf) is manager of a bank agency with a good wage.

 

Something is wrong in your storie, and it's not only the brother, sorry dude...

[xtrnuno41]

1 hour ago, kingofthemountain said:

It's turn a little bit funny since you call for an emergency urgent advice get ride of a psychopat thai brother

and after most of us give you the best advice with the few things you gave us to know, it seems now you 

are very shocked by some of the assumptions made here and here.

Honestly if your situation was so critic, it should be the last of your concern, and i start to believe all of this is just some BS from a troll or something like that.

 

Also 2 or 3 little details, your GF works in a bank and you seems to have no problem of money too, then why do not rent a house it should be easy for you two, Why you build the house? Why you pay it if she has a good wages and an easy acces to the loan? Why build the house for your GF and your daughter in the family village if obviously you do not want to live inside with them? Sorry i don't get it.

 

And the oldest sister support the mother?

Since when? All this time in Thailand and you do not know that is ALWAYS the younger daughter which is in charge of the support of the parents, particulary here since the younger sister (Your gf) is manager of a bank agency with a good wage.

 

Something is wrong in your storie, and it's not only the brother, sorry dude...

You sound like a why-baby and you have not much empathie in the situation.

It is as it is, you should first read better, but guess you still will not get it then.

It could be, you have some lack of life experiences and empathie. Those are dangerous people.

Your so called details (mostly why's, so no details, just you being nosy) are not relevant in this matter. 

Your conclusion is, it is a bs story. You "red" it anyhow then and even respond to it, why baby?

 

For the op, the only possibility, normal wise, is to leave.

To take away the mother and your child. That is your first priority, but guess it will have issues.

You might think, should i go and what about the family then? I can handle.

You just cant trust a drug addict and it almost already got out of control and most probably it will again someday if you keep coming there.  

You have to think first your daughter, your gf and you !

 

   

[balo]

On 9/22/2019 at 11:18 AM, jmansilla said:

it could happen to any of us with a permanent connection to a Thai and Thailand

No it could not. Only guys looking for trouble. 

[englishoak]

9 hours ago, jmansilla said:

Not sure how this has gotten so off course but it's complicated! No she is not a bar girl, she was attending the last year at Thammasat University, after she graduated she started working at BK Bank and is now a manager at the small branch near us so she makes her own money. Whatever money I spent on the house was not an issue and is mainly so my daughter has a somewhat Westerner style house and, normal shower, kitchen, bedrooms, living room etc but on the out side is pretty much like a nice Thai house. I knew the mother for a year before dating and even then she never lived with me and had her own life until the pregnancy which was 2 years later, we moved here a year after the child was born and I was tired of BKK and work mostly remotely so I only have to work in BKK or HK 4-6 times a year!  Come on, even the best birth control is what 80-99% effective but I have no regrets since we have a great daughter but I realized she for the most part will be separated from the mother, maybe as she gets older she may move and live in my country when she is maybe 14-21, who knows she has a pretty peaceful life but not much to offer where she lives when she gets that old.

 

All has been fine for the past 6+ years here and all this started maybe 4 months ago but the brother stayed at the Temple until he left, he worked for about a month but things got really bad when he was fired and had no income and again became a parasite to the family, the father does not really speak to him or acknowledge his presence. The mother is probably typical, her son is an Angel and can do no wrong, the oldest daughter supports the mother of the brother and paid for the house they live in. That daughter has cut the mother off from any monthly support until the brother leaves which has only been a few weeks now. I am an idiot for lighting the fuse but just fed up with the Thai "Don't lose face" BS and probably snapped a bit when the brother walked over to pick up the fence board, as in "really, you want to kill me because I don't allow you to use my pressure washer to wash your stolen motorbike" I have stayed away since the incidence as hard as it is, they stayed with me this past weekend so I get time with my daughter.

 

Today there seems to be at least some progress, the police know where he buys the drugs and also the need to catch him actually riding the bike to do things as legal as possible so I am trying to be patient and staying away, they can't monitor and watch him 24 hours a day so more on that later.

 

Anyway, maybe ask more details instead of just assuming it's a cookie cutter situation, I was here in Thailand 6 years before meeting this lady so I have pretty much seen and heard it all and knew what I was doing and into, this one was a curve ball and should have just left things alone and kept my distance and have my daughter come here on the weekends and let the situation with the brother take it's course, he has pretty much worn out his welcome and is running out of options and also making more enemies other than me to keep him occupied! Where I live is pretty safe, there are 2 gates, bars on the few windows I have and a sturdy steel entrance door, I have a louisville slugger near that door on top of a storage cabinet and one under the bed. I have always thought about a gun but being a foreigner and using it even with an intruder would probably not turn out well and hard to justify vs the slugger.

 

Also, Thailand is not the only place to live where you can have your life perfectly planned out and <deleted> happens, bad neighbors move in, you look at an unknown psychopath who stalks you, someone you refused money to or were not friendly to, one of the family members marries or starts dating trouble, some undesirables plot to break into your house and kill you because you have a vault full of gold, you get tossed off a balcony while on vacation, just crazy <deleted> and a thousand other things so sitting on your high horse is just ignorance, no one is 100% immune to the thousands of things that can happen in life, just watch the news here, how many Thai's just snap, a lot seem to be on a short fuse regardless, just look at the daily stuff that happens with the Thai's vs other Thai's! I am also not sure of the real statistics, it's maybe less than 1% of Thai females work in massage or a bar and the vast majority of expats or tourists don't go near or have any desire to have anything to do with that activity but that is always what people assume, how many Thai celebrities get married and it turns into a nightmare physically and financially, it's just funny the conclusion that educated foreigners make without asking more details, does a doctor immediately do brain surgery because you have a migraine? Food for thought for some, doing otherwise just shows ignorance and even worse coming from Foreigners who are educated and live in civilized cultures!

 

Also forgive the long post's I think fast and type 80+ WPM so it doesn't take long to give all the info and details to TRY to avoid ignorant and irrelevant response but like I say, there is always that ONE guy, but on forums there seem to be hundreds of those people!

 

 

Its clear from your bravado you expect and pretend to wish future confrontations. 

You might think fast and typing but your not too good at standing back and taking stock calmly and accepting reality of a pretty bad and likely ongoing situation, which I assume is what you posted for. 

 

You have had some good advice here, most of it in the vein of remove yourself and family if possible but get out now, move on and dont play with fire, youll probably get burned the Thai way.

 

A harsh but honest observation. You are risking your daughters well being and safety as much as you are your own, if her mother dosnt realise or care to do something about that or her parents then its the wrong family to be involved in full stop. 

 

Its upto you. Its a drama only while you stay and take part in the show.

 

 

[champers]

On 9/22/2019 at 5:37 PM, colinneil said:

It is paradise for me, since i had the electric gate fitted..... The buggers dont get in.... lovely situation.

How many volts do you have running through it, Colin?