TM.30 / TM.28 - More Mixed Signals

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Wow! They really hate you there!

Only there??

[Max69xl]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

Actually in some cases there is a huge FLAW in your above argument. People on RETIREMENT EXTENSIONS have been treated differently at Jomtien regarding TM30s for a long time. Particularly for those on retirement extensions and OWNING and living in their own condo. Basically -- NOT REQUIRED EVER. So brilliant one do you actually think in that case that asking both desks is not worth doing? I won't even repeat again the advice that I was given because it will just add to the massive confusion out there as it was completely contradictory. 

If you don't understand what I meant,then you don't understand proper english. Shall I repeat it:

If you want the correct info about the TM30 report,then you ask the IO in charge at desk 10,normally the old lady in uniform. I have been staying in Jomtien for years, and never gotten the wrong info when asking her. Same with desk 8 about retirement issues. If you think you can just pick one IO by random,then you don't have a clue how it works there. So,keep complaining.

[Jingthing]

6 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

If you don't understand what I meant,then you don't understand proper english. Shall I repeat it:

If you want the correct info about the TM30 report,then you ask the IO in charge at desk 10,normally the old lady in uniform. I have been staying in Jomtien for years, and never gotten the wrong info when asking her. Same with desk 8 about retirement issues. If you think you can just pick one IO by random,then you don't have a clue how it works there. So,keep complaining.

You completely ignored my point, Really as a condo owner that has never done even one TM30 my only interest is if the retirement desk will give me a problem with that knowing they never have before. So you're really objectively wrong that only information from one desk is relevant in all cases. Got it now or are you going to continue to lecture without listening?

Edited September 24, 2019 by Jingthing

[NoshowJones]

6 hours ago, rkidlad said:

My missus always does the booking for hotels and houses. Been to many a hotel with her and they don't ask me for anything. Was just in Pattaya at the weekend and I didn't even have my passport. 

 

Just more proof of how dumb the TM30 really is.

You mean the Thailand authorities?

[Peter Denis]

51 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Until their policy changes, then you'll be fined.

Until April this year foreigners registered in Bangkok, were told no TM30 required.

Then in April the policy changed and they fined hundreds for not previously filing a TM30 that they previously didn't enforce.

When a foreigner goes for an extension of stay to his provincial IO and no TM30 of his current place of stay has been filed, he risks that the application is denied, as well as being fined for not having been reported.

The above is common knowledge.

But my question is: Will the foreigner only be fined for the TM30 not being reported from his current place of stay when doing the application?

Or would IO also check his complete history of stays in their TM30 database, and fine him for any gaps between stays at Hotels during which no TM30 has been filed.  I think the latter is very very unlikely. 

Hence - even though the law requires it - there is no need to file a TM30 on returning home from a domestic trip (and that's what several IO's - but not all - are saying too, when asked)

And so you only need to ensure that a TM30 has been filed when returning from a trip abroad (you will have a different entry/departure card TM6 number), and ensure that a current TM30of the place where you are staying is on file when applying at your provincial IO for an extension of stay.

Obviously, if you (or your wife/landlord) registered your home-place on the IO TM30 website, it would be a small effort to also file a TM30 when returning from a domestic trip.  

 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When a foreigner goes for an extension of stay to his provincial IO and no TM30 of his current place of stay has been filed, he risks that the application is denied, as well as being fined for not having been reported.

The above is common knowledge.

But my question is: Will the foreigner only be fined for the TM30 not being reported from his current place of stay when doing the application?

Or would IO also check his complete history of stays in their TM30 database, and fine him for any gaps between stays at Hotels during which no TM30 has been filed.  I think the latter is very very unlikely. 

Hence - even though the law requires it - there is no need to file a TM30 on returning home from a domestic trip (and that's what several IO's - but not all - are saying too, when asked)

And so you only need to ensure that a TM30 has been filed when returning from a trip abroad (you will have a different entry/departure card TM6 number), and ensure that a current TM30of the place where you are staying is on file when applying at your provincial IO for an extension of stay.

Obviously, if you (or your wife/landlord) registered your home-place on the IO TM30 website, it would be a small effort to also file a TM30 when returning from a domestic trip.  

 

There are no retrospective fines or looking at history. Immigration will only ever be asking for a current TM30 for the property you are at when you go to immigration. People waste a lot of time and energy speculating about scenarios that will never be looked at, "what if I stay here then stay there etc".

A current TM30 for your current address when you visit immigration is all thats ever required.

[Peter Denis]

When a foreigner goes for an extension of stay to his provincial IO and no TM30 of his current place of stay has been filed, he risks that the application is denied, as well as being fined for not having been reported.

OK, but I try to get my head around that FINE.

Is it indeed so that the foreigner gets fined because the owner of the place where he is staying did not file a TM30?

Or is it rather that the foreigner - who needs to have his extension of stay approved - pays the fine on behalf of the owner, to get it done with so that his extension of stay can be processed?

And of course the foreigner can be the owner of the place where he stays, at same time.  Would he be fined then both as non-compliant owner as well as non-reported foreigner?

Just wondering...

 

[Max69xl]

39 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When a foreigner goes for an extension of stay to his provincial IO and no TM30 of his current place of stay has been filed, he risks that the application is denied, as well as being fined for not having been reported.

The above is common knowledge.

But my question is: Will the foreigner only be fined for the TM30 not being reported from his current place of stay when doing the application?

Or would IO also check his complete history of stays in their TM30 database, and fine him for any gaps between stays at Hotels during which no TM30 has been filed.  I think the latter is very very unlikely. 

Hence - even though the law requires it - there is no need to file a TM30 on returning home from a domestic trip (and that's what several IO's - but not all - are saying too, when asked)

And so you only need to ensure that a TM30 has been filed when returning from a trip abroad (you will have a different entry/departure card TM6 number), and ensure that a current TM30of the place where you are staying is on file when applying at your provincial IO for an extension of stay.

Obviously, if you (or your wife/landlord) registered your home-place on the IO TM30 website, it would be a small effort to also file a TM30 when returning from a domestic trip.  

 

CW in BKK and I think also CM and CR requires the TM30 to be submitted everytime you go anywhere, abroad or domestic. There are a few more provinces,but there are more immigration offices that don't require the TM30 to be submitted when doing a domestic trip. They are more pragmatic about it. 

[Max69xl]

9 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

When a foreigner goes for an extension of stay to his provincial IO and no TM30 of his current place of stay has been filed, he risks that the application is denied, as well as being fined for not having been reported.

OK, but I try to get my head around that FINE.

Is it indeed so that the foreigner gets fined because the owner of the place where he is staying did not file a TM30?

Or is it rather that the foreigner - who needs to have his extension of stay approved - pays the fine on behalf of the owner, to get it done with so that his extension of stay can be processed?

And of course the foreigner can be the owner of the place where he stays, at same time.  Would he be fined then both as non-compliant owner as well as non-reported foreigner?

Just wondering...

 

I think it's yes, yes and a yes. 

[Tanoshi]

49 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

There are no retrospective fines or looking at history. Immigration will only ever be asking for a current TM30 for the property you are at when you go to immigration. People waste a lot of time and energy speculating about scenarios that will never be looked at, "what if I stay here then stay there etc".

A current TM30 for your current address when you visit immigration is all thats ever required.

Not entirely true.

I filed a TM30 last year after a trip abroad.

The IO saw my entry stamp was 3 days old, as I stayed in a Bangkok hotel for 3 days on arrival.

He checked the TM30 site to confirm my reason.

 

They rarely check, but can if they feel the need or reason.

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

When a foreigner goes for an extension of stay to his provincial IO and no TM30 of his current place of stay has been filed, he risks that the application is denied, as well as being fined for not having been reported.

The above is common knowledge.

It would be more accurate to state they won't accept the application, as opposed to accepting it, then denying it.

 

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

But my question is: Will the foreigner only be fined for the TM30 not being reported from his current place of stay when doing the application?

Or would IO also check his complete history of stays in their TM30 database, and fine him for any gaps between stays at Hotels during which no TM30 has been filed.  I think the latter is very very unlikely. 

They only fine once.

 

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

Hence - even though the law requires it - there is no need to file a TM30 on returning home from a domestic trip (and that's what several IO's - but not all - are saying too, when asked)

And so you only need to ensure that a TM30 has been filed when returning from a trip abroad (you will have a different entry/departure card TM6 number), and ensure that a current TM30of the place where you are staying is on file when applying at your provincial IO for an extension of stay.

Obviously, if you (or your wife/landlord) registered your home-place on the IO TM30 website, it would be a small effort to also file a TM30 when returning from a domestic trip.

That at the moment appears to depend on the office, or even an individual IO within that office.

It's a lottery for the time being.

[jak2002003]

8 hours ago, BritManToo said:

After the online report,

CM immigration want a signed and stamped form from the hotel, which you then change at an upstairs office at immigration for an official immigration receipt before you can get on with the real business you had at immigration.

 

A true time wasting paper circus.

Me and my partner both registered online and have also been to the immigration office Chiang Mai several times to do the TM30.  Never had any problems... and never been asked for documents from hotels we have stayed in.  I think they were messing about with you that time.  

 

8 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

So CM immigration doesnt accept anyone reported in the online system ? Everyone still has to report manually before doing any business ?

Does that mean nobody can use the online system in CM ?

We both report online.  It is really easy. We also have several friends in CM who use the online reporting.  Again no problems.  Only thing was the initial registration online.. because some of it had to be filled in in Thai.  

4 hours ago, Max69xl said:

You just have to know what your local immigration office requires.

I don't need to submit the TM30 when travelling within Thailand.

Easier said then done if you are in CM.  They are constantly changing how they are interpreting the TM30.  Each time I go I ask them and each time their answers change.  So we just do what the law states... ie, every time we come back home to CM from overseas, another province, or another address in CM we go in and report back.  That way they can not change their mind and fine us.  We have been told only do it if you were out of the county.  But then, next time they told us it was anywhere within the kingdom, then again only overseas.  Change like the wind lol.

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I'm going to put this another way. I am not the smartest person around but I'm not the dumbest either. I've read the forums. I've asked directly at immigration. After all that I truly have NO IDEA what is the correct thing I should personally do regarding TM30s.

 

Bangkok -- we have a problem! 

Here is your answer so you know now:

 

Go to immigration or fill in the online report no more than 24 hours after getting home from staying away ANYWERE.

 

Don't listen to what they say at the immigration office if they tell you you only need to do it if you are back from overseas.  This might be OK for a while, but one day they just might change their minds if they are after some money or are in a bad mood.  

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2019 by jak2002003

[Tanoshi]

31 minutes ago, Peter Denis said:

Is it indeed so that the foreigner gets fined because the owner of the place where he is staying did not file a TM30?

The foreigner is fined because he is just as responsible as a Thai to file the TM30.

A foreigner can be the owner, the tenant and certainly in any event the possessor.

 

The online site allows you to register as the foreigner.

I've always filed my own TM30's for years as possessor, not relying on anyone else.

[Peter Denis]

24 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

The foreigner is fined because he is just as responsible as a Thai to file the TM30.

A foreigner can be the owner, the tenant and certainly in any event the possessor.

 

The online site allows you to register as the foreigner.

I've always filed my own TM30's for years as possessor, not relying on anyone else.

I can accept the shared responsibility reason for also fining the foreigner when he lives in a rented condo or his wife's house, even though he would not be the owner of the place.

But being fined because a Hotel neglected to file a TM30 of your stay is rather unusual.

Dura lex, sed lex...

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

I'm hearing conflicting things about Chaeng Wattana.  I've been doing retirement extensions there for years (last time this January) and never been asked for a TM30.  Are they now consistently asking for those?  Please note I'm speaking specifically about retirement extensions.

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

But being fined because a Hotel neglected to file a TM30 of your stay is rather unusual.

If it was a registered hotel, then Immigration should take the matter up with them.

You should have a receipt as proof.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

I'm hearing conflicting things about Chaeng Wattana.  I've been doing retirement extensions there for years (last time this January) and never been asked for a TM30.  Are they now consistently asking for those?  Please note I'm speaking specifically about retirement extensions.

Since April of this year CW started enforcing filing a TM30.

No TM30 filed, no extension.

[Tanoshi]

6 hours ago, Peter Denis said:

I can accept the shared responsibility reason for also fining the foreigner when he lives in a rented condo or his wife's house, even though he would not be the owner of the place.

The Act states;

Section 38 : The house – master , the owner or the possessor of the residence , or the hotel manager
where the alien , receiving permission to stay temporary in the Kingdom has stayed , must notify the
competent official of the Immigration Office located in the same area with that hours , dwelling place or
hotel, within 24 hours from the time of arrival of the alien concerned.

Section 4 : In this Act :

“ House Master ” means any persons who is the chief possessor of a house , whether in the capacity of
owner , tenant , or in any other capacity whatsoever.

 

[TerraplaneGuy]

2 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

Since April of this year CW started enforcing filing a TM30.

No TM30 filed, no extension.

Tanoshi, thanks for the quick reply.  So in addition to the usual documents they always required in past, is there anything else needed along with the TM30?  I've heard reference to a copy of the blue book (but never seen one myself).  Is that needed?  I rent a condo owned by a Thai national so I guess he would have the blue book ...

[ChipButty]

4 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Tanoshi, thanks for the quick reply.  So in addition to the usual documents they always required in past, is there anything else needed along with the TM30?  I've heard reference to a copy of the blue book (but never seen one myself).  Is that needed?  I rent a condo owned by a Thai national so I guess he would have the blue book ...

You need at least a copy of the Blue book you will need the house registration number in that book

[jacko45k]

17 hours ago, Max69xl said:

My experience is: Ask the correct person and you probably get the correct info. You don't ask about retirement rules at the TM 30 desk,right? And the other way around. 

How about the information desk? You need a ticket and to queue to get to the rest. 

[Tanoshi]

5 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Tanoshi, thanks for the quick reply.  So in addition to the usual documents they always required in past, is there anything else needed along with the TM30?  I've heard reference to a copy of the blue book (but never seen one myself).  Is that needed?  I rent a condo owned by a Thai national so I guess he would have the blue book ...

If you or the landlord have never previously filed a TM30, to avoid a fine when you next have to visit CW, either yourself or landlord can mail it in as others have done.

Recommend EMS, with pre paid EMS return.

 

Completed TM30.

Copy of Passport photo page.

Copy of Visa/extension.

Copy of TM6.

Copy of last entry stamp.

Signed copies of landlords Tabien Baan and ID card.

[Jip99]

Having previously registered my housekeeper/owner for online TM30 reporting, I duly reported my presence (on behalf of the missus) this morning.


As we were scheduled to visit Buriram I thought I would pop in to Buriram Immigration to check if the system had worked, and that I was duly registered.

I was. But further than that, the very helpful IO informed me that I (the alien) could register and self report whenever I returned from any of my travels. He then kindly set me up on the system and issued a new TM30 receipt which he stapled in my passport.


Four times he mentioned that the main point of TM30 was to be able to locate aliens in times of emergency (he mentioned family calling from the home country saying that 73 year old uncle Bill had gone missing in Thailand and was last known to be in Sisaket, but they couldn't contact him).

While we were there the TV screen was showing a TM30 information video produced by Pattaya's Fabulous FM103


Online Immigration services:-

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/online_serivces

Sign on screen:-

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

FM103 YouTube video:-

[Max69xl]

2 hours ago, Jip99 said:

Having previously registered my housekeeper/owner for online TM30 reporting, I duly reported my presence (on behalf of the missus) this morning.


As we were scheduled to visit Buriram I thought I would pop in to Buriram Immigration to check if the system had worked, and that I was duly registered.

I was. But further than that, the very helpful IO informed me that I (the alien) could register and self report whenever I returned from any of my travels. He then kindly set me up on the system and issued a new TM30 receipt which he stapled in my passport.


Four times he mentioned that the main point of TM30 was to be able to locate aliens in times of emergency (he mentioned family calling from the home country saying that 73 year old uncle Bill had gone missing in Thailand and was last known to be in Sisaket, but they couldn't contact him).


While we were there the TV screen was showing a TM30 information video produced by Pattaya's Fabulous FM103

Online Immigration services:-

https://www.immigration.go.th/content/online_serivces

Sign on screen:-

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

FM103 YouTube video:-

"While we were there the TV screen was showing a TM30 information video produced by Pattaya's Fabulous FM103."

What has Pattaya Fabulous FM103 got to do with Buriram Immigration? Nothing says that Buriram Immigration interprets the rules same as Jomtien Immigration.

[TerraplaneGuy]

On 9/24/2019 at 7:54 PM, Tanoshi said:

If you or the landlord have never previously filed a TM30, to avoid a fine when you next have to visit CW, either yourself or landlord can mail it in as others have done.

Recommend EMS, with pre paid EMS return.

 

Completed TM30.

Copy of Passport photo page.

Copy of Visa/extension.

Copy of TM6.

Copy of last entry stamp.

Signed copies of landlords Tabien Baan and ID card.

Thanks - is there a time limit for mailing this, after returning to Thailand (i. e. after the date of the TM6)?  I heard the requirement was to file the TM30 within 24 hours of arrival, but it seems mailing could take longer.  Also, once I've done this do I take it I am "registered" in the system?  Then, when later I go to get my extension of stay, I assume I won't have to file a TM30 (assuming I haven't left the country) since I'm already in the system, correct?   Finally, once I'm "in the system" and I leave Thailand, what do I have to file along with the TM30 when I return, or is that form sufficient since they already have the other documents (blue book copy, etc.) in the system?  Sorry for all the questions but I've never had to deal with this before since Chaeng Wattana never required it in previous years.

Edited September 26, 2019 by TerraplaneGuy
more detail

[sussex]

1 hour ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks - is there a time limit for mailing this, after returning to Thailand (i. e. after the date of the TM6)?  I heard the requirement was to file the TM30 within 24 hours of arrival, but it seems mailing could take longer.  Also, once I've done this do I take it I am "registered" in the system?  Then, when later I go to get my extension of stay, I assume I won't have to file a TM30 (assuming I haven't left the country) since I'm already in the system, correct?   Finally, once I'm "in the system" and I leave Thailand, what do I have to file along with the TM30 when I return, or is that form sufficient since they already have the other documents (blue book copy, etc.) in the system?  Sorry for all the questions but I've never had to deal with this before since Chaeng Wattana never required it in previous years.

If you're under a time constraint (my posted TM30 took 5 weeks to be returned to me) register online for the TM30 system and you'll immediately get the password. To register you need to upload  your landlord ID + scanned tabien baan.

 

Once you've got your username and password, just enter your details, click the save symbol (diskette) and you should be registered, TM30 done (your details will disappear). You can then search the website for your 'check in date' to confirm you're registered. Don't worry if you haven't done this within 24 hours of landing the first time round.

 

Future trips back to Thailand, just re-enter your details online. 

[Wongkitlo]

Here is your answer so you know now:
 
Go to immigration or fill in the online report no more than 24 hours after getting home from staying away ANYWERE.
 
Don't listen to what they say at the immigration office if they tell you you only need to do it if you are back from overseas.  This might be OK for a while, but one day they just might change their minds if they are after some money or are in a bad mood.  
 
 
 

20 km taxi ride, 1 hour boat ride,20 km taxi ride, another 20 km taxi ride to immigration. 20 km taxi ride back to hotel, hotel for night,20 km ride back to boat, 1 hour boat ride then 20 km taxi ride. Total cost 1410 baht for 2 people. Won't accept tm30 from Farung so Thai wife must come. Funny thing is have 2 tm30 for the same night. 1 for hotel and one for home because it is too late to make it home after the journey there. Still waiting for password for online lodgement.

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Wongkitlo]

https://i.redd.it/dm61mrjvx8c31.jpg

Sent from my Lenovo TB-8304F1 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Tanoshi]

14 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Thanks - is there a time limit for mailing this, after returning to Thailand (i. e. after the date of the TM6)?  I heard the requirement was to file the TM30 within 24 hours of arrival, but it seems mailing could take longer. 

You should file within 24 hours of arriving at your place of residence as indicated on your TM6.

You didn't previously mention you were out of Country.

 

14 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Also, once I've done this do I take it I am "registered" in the system?  Then, when later I go to get my extension of stay, I assume I won't have to file a TM30 (assuming I haven't left the country) since I'm already in the system, correct? 

Correct.

 

14 hours ago, TerraplaneGuy said:

Finally, once I'm "in the system" and I leave Thailand, what do I have to file along with the TM30 when I return, or is that form sufficient since they already have the other documents (blue book copy, etc.) in the system? 

I'd apply to register online for further submissions as advised by @sussex

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

All documents have to be supplied again, or uploaded if doing online submission.

No different than doing an extension, repeat documentation ever time.

Edited September 26, 2019 by Tanoshi

[TerraplaneGuy]

14 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

I'd apply to register online for further submissions as advised by @sussex

https://extranet.immigration.go.th/fn24online/

All documents have to be supplied again, or uploaded if doing online submission.

No different than doing an extension, repeat documentation ever time.

Thanks. I checked that page just now - how do I get a user ID and password for it?