British Labour leader Corbyn faces showdown with party members over Brexit

[webfact]

British Labour leader Corbyn faces showdown with party members over Brexit

By Elizabeth Piper and William James

 

Britain's Labour Party leader Jeremy Corbyn delivers his keynote speech at the Labour Party Conference in Liverpool, Britain, September 26, 2018. REUTERS/Phil Noble/Files

 

BRIGHTON, England (Reuters) - Britain's opposition Labour Party will vote to decide its Brexit strategy on Monday, with leader Jeremy Corbyn heading for a showdown with his members over whether the party should back staying in the European Union.

 

The vote at its annual conference in the English seaside resort of Brighton is the latest attempt by the party to bridge its divides over Brexit, a row that has overshadowed party officials' attempt to present Labour as a government in waiting.

 

With Prime Minister Boris Johnson insisting that Britain will leave the EU on an Oct. 31 deadline, Labour, like the ruling Conservatives, is struggling to agree strategy on Brexit, increasing the uncertainty over Britain's biggest foreign and trade policy shift in more than 40 years.

 

Leftist Corbyn, an instinctive critic of the EU, has been under renewed pressure from party members and even some of his top team to unequivocally back remaining in the EU and their rebellion forced a vote between two options on Monday.

 

Britain's Labour Party will on Monday decide between two possible Brexit policies: to campaign to remain in the European Union at a second referendum or defer a decision on what stance to take until after an election, a Labour source said on Sunday. Michelle Hennessy reports.

 

The party will vote on whether Labour should be neutral before a new election, which is widely expected to come by the end of the year, or whether the party should declare a so-called "remain" stance now.

 

Corbyn's finance policy chief, John McDonnell, backed the Labour leader's approach of trying to win an election, to renegotiate a Brexit deal and then to hold a second referendum when lawmakers can campaign for whichever side they want.

 

"We are working together as a party to make sure that people have a choice and that people will decide," McDonnell told Sky News. "That means having another referendum in which the people will be able to decide between a sensible option in terms of 'leave' and making sure they also have the option of 'remain'."

 

But Corbyn has been criticised over what some describe as a vague stance on Brexit, with some in his party saying the lack of clarity has driven away Labour supporters, lowering the likelihood of an election victory.

 

According to a new opinion poll on Monday, more than half of voters who backed Britain's opposition Labour Party at a 2017 election think it is now time for Corbyn to stand down, an opinion poll showed on Monday.

 

So far the Labour leader has struck a neutral stance, saying on Sunday it was more important to hold the party together by embracing its "remainers" and those who want to leave the bloc.

 

Asked whether Labour would campaign to remain in the EU or to leave with a deal, Corbyn said he would hold a special conference to determine his stance after an election, pledging to be guided by his party.

 

"I am leading the party, I am proud to lead the party, I am proud of the democracy of the party and of course I will go along with whatever decision the party comes to," Corbyn said.

 

(Reporting by Elizabeth Piper; Editing by Angus MacSwan)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-09-23

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[GuyFawkes]

As an ex Labour Party member may I say how absolutely delighted I am to see the chaos and crisis in the British Labour Party.     Jeremy Corbyn has the lowest ever satisfaction polling, which if my memory serves me correctly was minus 60% this morning.

 

Despite the problems in the Government Party, Comrade Corbyn currently has zero chance of ever being Prime Minister.

 

Long may he continue to lead (questionable) the Party.

[billd766]

quote ""We are working together as a party to make sure that people have a choice and that people will decide," McDonnell told Sky News. "That means having another referendum in which the people will be able to decide between a sensible option in terms of 'leave' and making sure they also have the option of 'remain'."

 

How odd, or is it deja vu?

 

I am sure that back in 2016 at the referendum, people DID have a choice and DID decide what they wanted.

 

However the response was given lip service only by the Tories, and the Labour Party backed the peoples choice.

 

As a leaver I am quite happy to have a second referendum, but ONLY when the first referendum has run its course, and the UK has left the EU.

 

If the opposition parties ignore the first referendum and go straight to a second one, then why should that result be respected?

[SheungWan]

quote ""We are working together as a party to make sure that people have a choice and that people will decide," McDonnell told Sky News. "That means having another referendum in which the people will be able to decide between a sensible option in terms of 'leave' and making sure they also have the option of 'remain'."
 
How odd, or is it deja vu?
 
I am sure that back in 2016 at the referendum, people DID have a choice and DID decide what they wanted.
 
However the response was given lip service only by the Tories, and the Labour Party backed the peoples choice.
 
As a leaver I am quite happy to have a second referendum, but ONLY when the first referendum has run its course, and the UK has left the EU.
 
If the opposition parties ignore the first referendum and go straight to a second one, then why should that result be respected?

They didn't decide on no-deal Brexit.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[tebee]

labour MP comment on his own party - 

 

[sunnyboy2018]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

They didn't decide on no-deal Brexit.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yes they did. There was no such issue. The deal nonsense is just a ploy by the remainers to stay in the EU.  

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/09/12/no-deal-bring-it-on/

[sunnyboy2018]

17 minutes ago, tebee said:

labour MP comment on his own party - 

 

Yeah. Did you hear them today after they cheated a major vote through on a 'show of hands' shamelessly socialist.

[vogie]

2 hours ago, SheungWan said:

They didn't decide on no-deal Brexit.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

A no deal was not up for debate, it was the default option if a deal wasn't agreed to.

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, SheungWan said:

They didn't decide on no-deal Brexit.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

 

Indeed. And many may have been swayed by the lies of Gove, Boris and Mogg that the UK would get a fantastic deal almost at once as the UK held all the cards!

 

Another outrageous lie!

[Baerboxer]

5 hours ago, vogie said:

A no deal was not up for debate, it was the default option if a deal wasn't agreed to.

 

But of course, the public were constantly told by Boris, Gove and Mogg that we'd get a fantastic deal as we held all the cards!

 

Now, where is that deal? And what happened to their mysterious Plan B that's still not been revealed?

 

 

[vogie]

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

But of course, the public were constantly told by Boris, Gove and Mogg that we'd get a fantastic deal as we held all the cards!

 

Now, where is that deal? And what happened to their mysterious Plan B that's still not been revealed?

 

 

You take 'no deal' off the table, you have to accept what you're given, that's how it works unfortunately.

[JonnyF]

28 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

But of course, the public were constantly told by Boris, Gove and Mogg that we'd get a fantastic deal as we held all the cards!

 

Now, where is that deal? And what happened to their mysterious Plan B that's still not been revealed?

 

 

Yes, a trade deal, not a withdrawal deal. Nobody mentioned a withdrawal deal until May decided to go with BRINO, so leaving without one is neither here nor there.

 

Boris, Gove, Mogg etc. were all talking about a trade deal. We cannot do a trade deal until we've left. And yes it will take time, the EU haven't even managed to do one with the US or China yet because their idea of a negotiation is to offer terrible terms to the other side and then not give an inch for years and years.

[JonnyF]

17 hours ago, GuyFawkes said:

As an ex Labour Party member may I say how absolutely delighted I am to see the chaos and crisis in the British Labour Party.     Jeremy Corbyn has the lowest ever satisfaction polling, which if my memory serves me correctly was minus 60% this morning.

 

Despite the problems in the Government Party, Comrade Corbyn currently has zero chance of ever being Prime Minister.

 

Long may he continue to lead (questionable) the Party.

Not only that, but it keeps the likes of Dianne Abbott, Emily Thornberry, John McDonnell away. What a wrecking ball those 3 could be. Terrifying.

[Basil B]

Well seems Labour has a clear policy on Brexit.

 

"We will tell you if you vote for us" after the GE...

 

If Corbyn was thinking it would unite the party he was clearly wrong, there were a lot of very angry delegates in that hall.

[Basil B]

7 hours ago, sunnyboy2018 said:

Yeah. Did you hear them today after they cheated a major vote through on a 'show of hands' shamelessly socialist.

Stevie Wonder could have done a better job of counting the raised hands.????

[Basil B]

1 hour ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, a trade deal, not a withdrawal deal. Nobody mentioned a withdrawal deal until May decided to go with BRINO, so leaving without one is neither here nor there.

 

Boris, Gove, Mogg etc. were all talking about a trade deal. We cannot do a trade deal until we've left. And yes it will take time, the EU haven't even managed to do one with the US or China yet because their idea of a negotiation is to offer terrible terms to the other side and then not give an inch for years and years.

[Sticky Wicket]

9 minutes ago, Basil B said:

May sabotaged the whole thing, surely you know that!

[Basil B]

4 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

14 minutes ago, Basil B said:

May sabotaged the whole thing, surely you know that!

Was it May who mislead the 17.4M with all these lies? she must be a dammed good impersonator of Mogg, Gove, Boris, etc.

[Sticky Wicket]

2 minutes ago, Basil B said:

Was it May who mislead the 17.4M with all these lies? she must be a dammed good impersonator of Mogg, Gove, Boris, etc.

We'll never know as the points you put have been become null and void due to her sabotage

[billd766]

26 minutes ago, Basil B said:

That is what happens when the Remainers are in charge of the UK leaving Brexit.

[Basil B]

4 minutes ago, Sticky Wicket said:

We'll never know as the points you put have been become null and void due to her sabotage

So why are Brexiteers so afraid of another referendum? is it because the result of the 2016 referendum will be overturned or the fact they have been living a lie for over 4 years???

[Sticky Wicket]

1 minute ago, Basil B said:

So why are Brexiteers so afraid of another referendum? is it because the result of the 2016 referendum will be overturned or the fact they have been living a lie for over 4 years???

Best of 3 or best of 5?

The Lib Dems have already stated that they wouldn't accept the result if Leave won again anyway

[Basil B]

3 minutes ago, billd766 said:

That is what happens when the Remainers are in charge of the UK leaving Brexit.

So you are blaming the Remainers of telling those Lies???

[Basil B]

1 minute ago, Sticky Wicket said:

Best of 3 or best of 5?

The Lib Dems have already stated that they wouldn't accept the result if Leave won again anyway

Not true...

They said there is no need to waste time and money on another Referendum, they will end the nonsense on day one if elected.

[nauseus]

Labour have a new plan as of yesterday. Today another plan is due. Then tomorrow will be another. And the day after after that....and after that..and that..and that.

 

Labour are modern and consistent, continually and regularly coming up with innovative ideas and plans.

 

Vote Labour.

(T's & C's apply).

[cleopatra2]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Yes, a trade deal, not a withdrawal deal. Nobody mentioned a withdrawal deal until May decided to go with BRINO, so leaving without one is neither here nor there.

 

Boris, Gove, Mogg etc. were all talking about a trade deal. We cannot do a trade deal until we've left. And yes it will take time, the EU haven't even managed to do one with the US or China yet because their idea of a negotiation is to offer terrible terms to the other side and then not give an inch for years and years.

The WA is part of the Art 50 process

[dunroaming]

9 hours ago, vogie said:

A no deal was not up for debate, it was the default option if a deal wasn't agreed to.

Yes Vogie but people voted on what they were being told by the campaigners, the same as in electioneering .  People listened to the arguments for and against and then went with what they were being told.  Nobody stood up and said we would leave with no deal, on the  contrary the pitch was all about the great deals we would get from the EU and how easy it was going to be.

 

I accept that the default position has to be just leaving with no deal and that all the campaigning was just made up lies and fantasies (some from both camps) but what many people have trouble with is just rolling over and taking it up the rear end!

 

However there are still many who prefer that rather than putting their hands up and crying foul!

[puipuitom]

4 hours ago, vogie said:

You take 'no deal' off the table, you have to accept what you're given, that's how it works unfortunately.

The British had time to think about.. "what next" from 23 Jan 2013 onwards, when Cameron came witht he suggestion of a referendum.

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7960

[dunroaming]

The well balanced view of Martin Wolf.
https://youtu.be/np6c_qiLKmM

[vogie]

19 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes Vogie but people voted on what they were being told by the campaigners, the same as in electioneering .  People listened to the arguments for and against and then went with what they were being told.  Nobody stood up and said we would leave with no deal, on the  contrary the pitch was all about the great deals we would get from the EU and how easy it was going to be.

 

I accept that the default position has to be just leaving with no deal and that all the campaigning was just made up lies and fantasies (some from both camps) but what many people have trouble with is just rolling over and taking it up the rear end!

 

However there are still many who prefer that rather than putting their hands up and crying foul!

An interesting quote from Austin Mitchell "the remainiacs have taken over the party" his reference to Labour ignoring all the Labour voters that voted leave.

In my opinion we were all told what it entailed leaving the EU, many many times, "we will leave the single market and the customs union, it will be a once in lifetime referendum, parliament will respect your vote, etc etc etc."

We all knew that if a deal was not agreed within 2 years we would leave with no deal, now our duplicitious MPs have decided to keep on extending the 'deadline' ad infinitum, and to take no deal off the table, the only reason they would do this is to make it even more difficult to leave and not help us secure a good deal.

A similar scenario would be:

A knock on the door and the son answers it and the conversation that follows:

Son: dad there's someone here wants to buy our house and he has offered us £5.00.

Father: ok tell him he can have it.

Son: but isn't that a bit cheap dad?

Father: yes it is but I just want to sell it.

Son: but wouldn't we be better waiting till we get a better offer.

Father: yes we would, but the family has had a meeting and we just want a deal, tell him he can have it.

Son to enquirer: dad says you can have it.

Enquirer: ok, but tell your dad when he leaves he still has to pay for the television licence, the telephone rental and keep on paying for the gas and electric.