Bike updates for 2020

[eisfeld]

It's that season of the year again. Starting a new thread to list all the new bikes and updated models for 2020 as the news trickle in. Contribute and I'll update the post accordingly. I want to list only models that are getting significant updates and not just bold new colors.

 

Honda

 

Africa Twin 1100cc (up 85cc) / 102HP, 105Nm / Color Touch! TFT with Bluetooth connectivity (navi?) / Cornering ABS / Wheelie Control / Cruise Control / Adventure Sports only: Electronic Suspension / Adjustable Windscreen / 24L tank / Tubeless tires / Cornering Headlights

 

Fireblade not much known yet, there have been patent drawings for Active Aero which it'll likely get. New engine expected.

 

BMW

 

S1000XR expected to get the ShiftCam engine from the S1000RR (in a torquey tune), color TFT

 

 

DUCATI

 

Streetfighter all-new with the V4 engine from the Panigale V4.

 

KTM

 

Superduke 1290R rumored to have significant updates all around

[thaiguzzi]

Africa Twin? Pah.

KTM? Sheesh.

TFT's and more poncy gay electronics? Hah.

More 200+ bhp and TC and engine modes that nobody can use on the road? Ridiculous.

 

This is what we have been waiting for here in TH and next year in the US.

The Yamaha Tenere 700.

195 kgs wet

73 bhp

50 Ib ft torque.

Rave reviews.

[papa al]

seems overkill

[eisfeld]

While I really like the Tenere 700 (mainly due to its weight but that headlight is fugly), I'm not sure we can count it as a 2020 model because it has been on sale already in Europe this year. And no idea when it will come to Thailand. I think it would be a very good bike for here and if they price it right at say 300-350k, then it could steal quite some sales from the Africa Twin. If the AT lost 20-30kg it would be extremely close to a perfect bike for me. Wont happen anytime soon though.

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, papa al said:

seems overkill

What?

Which?

73 hp?

2 hours ago, eisfeld said:

While I really like the Tenere 700 (mainly due to its weight but that headlight is fugly), I'm not sure we can count it as a 2020 model because it has been on sale already in Europe this year. And no idea when it will come to Thailand. I think it would be a very good bike for here and if they price it right at say 300-350k, then it could steal quite some sales from the Africa Twin. If the AT lost 20-30kg it would be extremely close to a perfect bike for me. Wont happen anytime soon though.

Each to their own. Headlight is fab.

Styling kills an AT and the German version of an AT (GS850).

Only been available in Europe since the beginning of this month.

Selling as many as they can get. Factory in France cannot keep up with demand.

Will be in TH years end or latest Mar-April 2020.

Will be a full import from the Japan factory.

How could it be 300-350k when an MT07 retails at 299k, and an XSR700 retails at 339k?

And this bike has full adj suspension front and rear, and spoked wheels, all more expensive stuff than the above models. It retails at a minimum 1000GBP more than the XSR in the UK.

Price will be 100k more expensive than the MT07 or XSR700 so around 399-439k.

This was all told to me on Friday by a Yamaha field supervisor i know.

He wants one, and they are extremely anticipated over here.

[eisfeld]

I forgot that Yamaha overcharges here quite a bit. In DE the Tenere 700 is 9600 EUR (321k THB) that's why I thought it should be possible to bring it at 350k to Thailand.

 

You can't say that styling kills the AT when most people believe it's really good looking and sells also like hotcakes. For you maybe yes but not for the majority of people. But then again you also like the headlight of the Tenere ????

 

Good to hear though that it will come soon to the local market. Always good to see more diversity!

[Kwasaki]

9 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Africa Twin 1100cc

So now the Africa Twin with cornering ABS somebody pick me up when I stop laughing. ???? ????

[eisfeld]

6 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

So now the Africa Twin with cornering ABS somebody pick me up when I stop laughing. ???? ????

People were laughing when ABS was new. People were laughing when traction control was new. Now people are laughing as cornering ABS is new.

 

I've tried all of these and I appreciate them being there (and configurable). I don't see the problem.

[thaiguzzi]

5 hours ago, eisfeld said:

You can't say that styling kills the AT when most people believe it's really good looking and sells also like hotcakes. For you maybe yes but not for the majority of people. But then again you also like the headlight of the Tenere

Yep. you got that bit right...

I'm not most people.

And i certainly aint ever in the majority.

5 hours ago, eisfeld said:

In DE the Tenere 700 is 9600 EUR (321k THB)

So how much is a stock  XSR700 in DE?

[Kwasaki]

12 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

People were laughing when ABS was new. People were laughing when traction control was new. Now people are laughing as cornering ABS is new.

 

I've tried all of these and I appreciate them being there (and configurable). I don't see the problem.

I think different to you, I don't need cornering ABS riding across a river or riding in the desert.

[Damrongsak]

Cornering ABS ...absent braking system.

 

[eisfeld]

13 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

I think different to you, I don't need cornering ABS riding across a river or riding in the desert.

Then don't use it? It will not intrude during your offroad activities... I still don't see the issue.

 

Meanwhile for the majority if people who spend the majority on the roads cornering ABS can be quite useful.

 

I am like the majority. I have ridden my AT more than 36500 km so far and maybe 500km of that were offroad including mud, sand and rivers.

 

If you are one of those special cases that has offroad terrain all around him or trailers his bike to it, more power to you but then again I'm sure you wouldn't choose a heavy bike like the AT for those pure offroad sessions, would you?

 

 

Now, let's please get back on topic of new bikes for 2020 instead of bickering about new technology.

[thaiguzzi]

14 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

So how much is a stock  XSR700 in DE?

 

19 hours ago, eisfeld said:

In DE the Tenere 700 is 9600 EUR (321k THB)

 

[eisfeld]

7695 EUR 259k THB for the XSR700. Taking it proportionally if the XSR is 339k here then the Tenere 700 should then be 423k THB. Especially with the strong Baht which of course didn't result in lower prices they are making a killing on a sale. Imported at 0% from Japan...

 

 

Back on topic Kawa teased a supercharged Z and Triumph teased a new Street Triple.

 

Edit: well <deleted>, I can't edit the original post so I can't modify the list. What an annoying restriction...

Edited September 25, 2019 by eisfeld

[ktm jeff]

I would have expected the Yamaha to be about 420K. Its at least as good as the AT , but 30KG lighter.  I just checked the price list of the AT.  580,000 Baht  !!!.  Fell off my chair. And dont forget the Honda "dealers" will often charge even more than the recommended price.  Ive often found the Hondas to be overpriced by about 40%.  Yamaha are both cheaper , and of better quality.  Now lets hope some new models around 400/450 come out. Not counting the 25 BHP Honda CRF 450 , at whatever the price is.

[eisfeld]

35 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

I would have expected the Yamaha to be about 420K. Its at least as good as the AT , but 30KG lighter.  I just checked the price list of the AT.  580,000 Baht  !!!.

The AT manual is 550k, 580k is the DCT version. And I don't think one can blanket statement say that it's as good as the AT. the AT is a bigger bike. Weight power size etc.

 

35 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

nd dont forget the Honda "dealers" will often charge even more than the recommended price.

I've never ever seen that happen with any Bigwing that I have been to. They strictly stick to the list price dictated by AP Honda and just sometimes give some promo freebees on top. No idea where you have experienced this. Maybe you are thinking of the Honda scooter dealers...

 

35 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

Ive often found the Hondas to be overpriced by about 40%.  Yamaha are both cheaper , and of better quality.

Eh, the Yamahas are usually overpriced and the Hondas are pretty close the EU prices especially for all the bikes made locally. You got that backwards. But Yamaha has improved on this point quite a bit. It really depends on the model case by case. Also I think the quality part is backwards. The are very close but I think Honda has a slight fit'n'finish lead in the big bike department. Again, not talking about scooters.

Edited September 25, 2019 by eisfeld

[canthai55]

56 minutes ago, ktm jeff said:

Not counting the 25 BHP Honda CRF 450 , at whatever the price is.

Easy fix for that - as discussed on AU and UK forums

[canthai55]

I am all for anything that makes riding a bike anywhere more safe.

ABS saved my culo on the MHS route the first time I rode a bike - Versys - equipped with it.

Those with a phobia over electronics have to realize that even if these systems fail, the bike is still ride able. And you can turn most of them off anyway.

That being said - it is the styling that sticks in my throat. And how bloated the new bikes are. No matter how good the specs, how amazing the features, I just can not see myself riding one.

Too Old School I guess ... some would say a dinosaur !

Bikes should look like the one below - not covered with plastic and having a muffler the size of a garbage can

 

[ktm jeff]

38 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Easy fix for that - as discussed on AU and UK forums

Agree. It may be possible. But i have still to find a "before and after" dyno chart , detailing the improvement up to 40 BHP.  And the prices and availability of all the parts required , in Thailand. Could you point me in the right direction please.

[canthai55]

This for Vortex ECU -

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1285783-vortex-ecu-for-the-2019-honda-crf450l/

This for Power Commander 5 -

https://thumpertalk.com/forums/topic/1292135-help-needed-just-installed-yoshimura-and-power-commander-on-my-crf450l/

Email a US dealer and get a price on the stock ECU

Unplug 25 HP - plug in 40+

[ktm jeff]

Thank you. That was a quick reply. 

 

[thaiguzzi]

On 9/24/2019 at 3:24 PM, eisfeld said:

In DE the Tenere 700 is 9600 EUR (321k THB) that's why I thought it should be possible to bring it at 350k to Thailand.

 

4 hours ago, eisfeld said:

7695 EUR 259k THB for the XSR700. Taking it proportionally if the XSR is 339k here then the Tenere 700 should then be 423k THB.

There you have your answer.

You answered it yourself.

Ditto UK pricing.

And this is what the Yamaha Field Supervisor reckoned.

4 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Especially with the strong Baht which of course didn't result in lower prices they are making a killing on a sale. Imported at 0% from Japan...

Disagree.

Also not, all models for Europe are made in France.

Australasia models are made in Japan.

[eisfeld]

Kawasaki did it. A 250cc inline four... https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-kawasaki-zx-25r-tokyo/

$9500 estimated which makes it a bit ridicolous for what it is. But hey, many people were demanding another 250cc four so there ya go ????

[JonnyF]

21 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Kawasaki did it. A 250cc inline four... https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-kawasaki-zx-25r-tokyo/

$9500 estimated which makes it a bit ridicolous for what it is. But hey, many people were demanding another 250cc four so there ya go ????

That looks awesome. 9500 USD is about 285,000 Baht. Considering that an R3 is 195,000 Baht I don't think that would be too crazy if they could sell it in Thailand at that price, considering that it's basically got the spec of a 600cc supersport (power modes, traction control, Showa suspension, quickshifter etc.) with a 250cc inline 4 engine.

 

Of course, it's highly unlikely that it will be sold here and if it is, it will be 10-20% more than the US price but I bet that is a seriously fun bike.

[jackdd]

21 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Kawasaki did it. A 250cc inline four... https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-kawasaki-zx-25r-tokyo/

$9500 estimated which makes it a bit ridicolous for what it is. But hey, many people were demanding another 250cc four so there ya go ????

Back then you didn't want to believe it, but you were right regarding the price ????

On 4/29/2019 at 10:37 AM, eisfeld said:

Doubt it. Don't think there's enough market demand for these at the price that they'll have to ask. The Honda twin is already way overpriced, this thing would cost even more to manufacture. The source is Young Machine which is a Japanese Mag which likes to make up dream bikes ????

 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, jackdd said:

Back then you didn't want to believe it, but you were right regarding the price ????

 

Haha yep! I still can't believe they did it but here we are. Kawa is going their own way compared to other manufacturers I feel. Same like the supercharged ZH2 which I think will not sell well (weight being one reason) but Kawasaki just has to be respected for actually making these machines.

 

Does somsone have sales figures for the CBR250RR? In Thailand for sure a flop, never seen one on the streets.

[eisfeld]

Speaking of the ZH2: here more details https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-kawasaki-z-h2/

 

200HP and a whopping 137Nm. But also 239kg. For me the weight and also look of the front are the big downsides.

 

The new Ducati Streetfighter V4 achieves similar (less torque) performance with 40kg less: https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/bikes/2020-ducati-streetfighter-v4/

[thaiguzzi]

13 hours ago, JonnyF said:

That looks awesome. 9500 USD is about 285,000 Baht. Considering that an R3 is 195,000 Baht I don't think that would be too crazy if they could sell it in Thailand at that price, considering that it's basically got the spec of a 600cc supersport (power modes, traction control, Showa suspension, quickshifter etc.) with a 250cc inline 4 engine.

 

Of course, it's highly unlikely that it will be sold here and if it is, it will be 10-20% more than the US price but I bet that is a seriously fun bike.

Different strokes for different folks.

Just the thought makes me want to retch.

A 4 cylinder 250 4 stroke.

What could be worse?

I'd rather have an MZ 250 2T single. No word of a lie.

For that sort of money, i would snap Vocal Neal's 250 Honda 2T NSR off his hands.

Better pedigree, better everything.

[William Osborne]

12 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

 

A 4 cylinder 250 4 stroke.

What could be worse?

I'd rather have an MZ 250 2T single. No word of a lie.

 

Are you for real ????

 

IL4 reving to 19k rpm.... verses some 2T grenade ....and a MZ at that..????

[jackdd]

Not 2020 because just released, but interesting to see such a bike from Honda with ABS, the Honda ADV150: https://www.aphonda.co.th/honda2017/motorcycle/automatic/new-adv150

Looks like a PCX in adventure style.