Almost denied entry METV DMK

[elliss]

1 hour ago, thequietman said:

Cause we're stealing their jerbs and their women folk. ????

 

We are also buying up all their land and properties - No, wait - we're not allowed to!

 

Sorry, I have no idea. Wait! I remember now, we are all terrorists. That's it - we're terrorists. I knew it would come to me. ????

 

 Sum it up in one,  Aliens not of this world .

    Welcome ...

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by elliss

[MaksimMislavsky]

3 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

If past history indicates ongoing stay in los, which most likely involve tourist visas then good chance ed visa reject.

Exactly what I'm worried about. Although I think one is quite unlikely to develop an intention to study anything in Thailand with no past history of staying there. It was deemed perfectly OK to stay just for fun back then.

[BritTim]

4 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

Exactly what I'm worried about. Although I think one is quite unlikely to develop an intention to study anything in Thailand with no past history of staying there. It was deemed perfectly OK to stay just for fun back then.

I think the fundamental problem is that you want to enjoy stays in Thailand too often and/or too long. Wishing to learn to speak Thai is actually evidence that you intend doing just that. Probably, they need to abolish Non Ed visas altogether for people just to learn Thai. If you have a legitimate reason for being in Thailand (paying off agents or buying an Elite visa) you can study Thai without any need for a Non Ed visa. Otherwise, you are just an undesirable who wants to spend time in Thailand, may want even to become more integrated into society, and are unwilling to make the pay offs required.

[DrJack54]

15 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

Exactly what I'm worried about. Although I think one is quite unlikely to develop an intention to study anything in Thailand with no past history of staying there. It was deemed perfectly OK to stay just for fun back then.

I like the bit "back then"... I came los several yrs back first time, already over 50. I like many did visa exempt for years back to back. Easy for me having never travelled in younger years and loving Vietnam. When 3 entry tourist visas existed I obtained 3 multiple tourist Saigon. The clerk was polite. ...Sir, why you no have retirement visa, you over 50". 

Things change. And yes now I have 800k in FD a/c for my extensions 

Sorry long story. Point is THINGS CHANGE. Back in those days I recall posts on Thaivisa.... " I'm on my 4th ed visa can't speak a word of Thai and never attend a lesson. I still got B+

Edited October 6, 2019 by DrJack54

[MaksimMislavsky]

1 minute ago, BritTim said:

Otherwise, you are just an undesirable who wants to spend time in Thailand, may want even to become more integrated into society, and are unwilling to make the pay offs required.

The end piece would be true if there were no tuition fee.

Otherwise, agree.

[Briggsy]

9 hours ago, SteveK said:

"if we give you 60 days you go to Cambodia, not come back to Thailand?"

 

Why are they so scared of people spending lots of time (and money) in Thailand?

Thai civil servants are scared of their boss. If they displease their boss, they get sidelined. So the question is why are certain Immigration senior figures (only in the regional office covering the main international airports) pushing this order on to their front line staff. Who knows? The reason is being kept secret. There has been no official press release or police order changing the way the law should be implemented.

 

Perhaps somebody's wife was denied entry into a Western country for the same reason. Perhaps senior Immigration figures (only in the regional office covering the main international airports) are getting a cut of Elite visa sales. Who knows? Nobody, because it is all being kept secret.

[EricTh]

9 hours ago, SteveK said:

"if we give you 60 days you go to Cambodia, not come back to Thailand?"

 

Why are they so scared of people spending lots of time (and money) in Thailand?

 

Many people have been abusing the system to do visa or border runs for years/decades and they are probably aware of it only recently.

 

Tourist visas are meant for tourists and not long term stays. If you want to see how a real tourist behave, go and look at what the Chinese tourists do.

 

Thailand is more concerned about the drop in Chinese tourists than anything else because they are big spenders and Thailand's biggest tourist market when compared to the cheap Charlies of certain countries.

 

There are other visas for long-term stay..... There're no 'Thai girlfriend visa' but there's a marriage visa where he can apply.

Edited October 6, 2019 by EricTh

[DavisH]

2 hours ago, Langkawee said:

You think you got problems now. Wait until you get married. Secure your assets. Get a private investigator who is a Westerner. I could tell you what I've seen but I will spare you. Good luck 555

The OP will live in Australia, so I guess the private investigator will be a westerner. Do you think fleecing an ex-husband only happens in Thailand? 

[SteveK]

So the Thai authorities are fretting about a decline in tourism and subsequent lost revenues. But at the same time they are doing everything they possibly can to turn away serial tourists who turn up at Suvarnabhumi with pocketfuls of cash to spend on hotels, restaurants and entertainment? They should be welcoming people who want to come several times per year, or stay for long periods - these visitors must be spending a fortune! And if they are worried about people working illegally, how about actually catching them in the act instead of being super paranoid about it and refusing people entry for nothing other than a suspicion?

 

Can you imagine if McDonalds started restricting people to only one BigMac per day? "I'm sorry sir, it appears you bought a BigMac at lunchtime so no more BigMacs for you because anyone who buys more than one BigMac per day MUST be illegally selling them on! We are going to lose a fortune in revenue and maybe even go bankrupt but we would rather have that than people abusing the system and illegally selling BigMacs to their friends". Despite the fact that nobody in their right mind would ever buy a second hand BigMac.

 

Exactly the same with Thai immigration. Missing out on all that lovely revenue because of the spurious idea that people are coming to work illegally for <10% of the wages they could earn back in their home country, and risk getting into legal trouble in a country with some of the worst prisons in the world. It either hasn't been thought through at all, or there is a xenophobic agenda underlying all of these odd decisions.

Edited October 6, 2019 by SteveK

[DrJack54]

9 minutes ago, SteveK said:

So the Thai authorities are fretting about a decline in tourism and subsequent lost revenues. But at the same time they are doing everything they possibly can to turn away serial tourists who turn up at Suvarnabhumi with pocketfuls of cash to spend on hotels, restaurants and entertainment? They should be welcoming people who want to come several times per year, or stay for long periods - these visitors must be spending a fortune! And if they are worried about people working illegally, how about actually catching them in the act instead of being super paranoid about it and refusing people entry for nothing other than a suspicion?

 

Can you imagine if McDonalds started restricting people to only one BigMac per day? "I'm sorry sir, it appears you bought a BigMac at lunchtime so no more BigMacs for you because anyone who buys more than one BigMac per day MUST be illegally selling them on! We are going to lose a fortune in revenue and maybe even go bankrupt but we would rather have that than people abusing the system and illegally selling BigMacs to their friends". Despite the fact that nobody in their right mind would ever buy a second hand BigMac.

Stevie settle. Fact is the farang that come here couple of times a year have zero problems. Yes agree they spend big. Then run home. That's what Thai want. They don't want folk spending 40 baht on soup.

Since I'm older and just travel Thai and Asia all I see is Chinese. Few weeks back koh samed. Very busy. I was luckly to see more than few farang. All Chinese and bulk trips on speedboats to islands etc. Business would be zero without them. I won't bore with MANY other examples. 

Its not about concern about working illegally. Its about financial contribution. Get with program. Farang, esp younger folk trying live here ongoing ain't worth it in Thai thinking. Mino

[SteveK]

18 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Its not about concern about working illegally. Its about financial contribution. 

So if that was the case, then showing a bank account with say 250k in it should show them that they ain't gonna be living on noodle soup, and they should be let in, no matter how many days over the last year they've been in Thailand. Even people being refused with the 20k baht on them (plus multiple debit/credit cards, a PayPal account, access to other funds online) get the reason in Thai that they don't have sufficient means to support themselves. They should just add another reason for refusal "we don't like the look of this guy so we are sending him back home" - at least it wouldn't be a lie.

Edited October 6, 2019 by SteveK

[DrJack54]

5 minutes ago, SteveK said:

So if that was the case, then showing a bank account with say 250k in it should show them that they ain't gonna be living on noodle soup, and they should be let in, no matter how many days over the last year they've been in Thailand. Even people being refused with the 20k baht on them get the reason in Thai that they don't have sufficient means to support themselves. They should just add another reason for refusal "we don't like the look of this guy so we are sending him back home" - at least it wouldn't be a lie.

I get your point but think your missing the point. Check out the stats of Chinese "2 or 3 week tourists" vs the farang with cash in bank. 

Putting that aside Thai imm projection for next explosion re tourist is coming from India. BTW let's get serious. How much is the ongoing tourist visa/ed Tvisa/visa exempt etc that try living in los ongoing compared to what I mention above. The over 50,s not immune. I now keep FD account 1 mill baht. Never needed before. The easy days for many are over.

[amykat]

1 hour ago, Briggsy said:

Thai civil servants are scared of their boss. If they displease their boss, they get sidelined. So the question is why are certain Immigration senior figures (only in the regional office covering the main international airports) pushing this order on to their front line staff. Who knows? The reason is being kept secret. There has been no official press release or police order changing the way the law should be implemented.

 

Perhaps somebody's wife was denied entry into a Western country for the same reason. Perhaps senior Immigration figures (only in the regional office covering the main international airports) are getting a cut of Elite visa sales. Who knows? Nobody, because it is all being kept secret.

I have been thinking for quite a while that this problem is coming from someone who likes Germany a lot ...maybe some resentments, payback for various things.

[SpanishExpat]

to be honest this `you can`t come back` is just blabla. They write down something in your passport or they blacklist you. Those are the 2 options. But apart from that . Like that they make a remark in the system like `don`t let him in next time`....never have heard about it. Was grilled myself in July..`you come too often`, `next time you won`t get in`. Guess what....7 weeks later I was welcomed through a land border with a warm smile.

 

I`ve written it so often. They can deny you for whatever reason and send you back. But there is no written law that you can`t enter LOS after 1,2,3,X METV.

 

 

My assumption that it just happens at specific entry points is just frustration. Don`t think that even senior IO have a safisfying salary. I personally don`t pity them, but doing this job day by day is just frustrating. That`s why their only joy is releasing their negative energy to some people. 

Don`t just think that only westerners are treated like that. 2018 they stamped me wrong at DMK(30 instead of 60 days) and I had to wait 20 min in front of the office where people are grilled. I saw disgusting things about how 2 intimidated guys from India were treated literally likes pieces of sh**. (not just by words). In every civilized country I would have taken a hidden video and forwarded that to the right sources. So yeah, after all...it`s just deep frustration by the IO. Guess why 99% of the people flying business/first class don`t get problems. Thai brains perceive them as rich and with a higher status and therefore they are not questioned.

Edited October 6, 2019 by SpanishExpat

[BritTim]

3 hours ago, EricTh said:

There are other visas for long-term stay..... There're no 'Thai girlfriend visa' but there's a marriage visa where he can apply.

Indeed, if you can make up your mind to marry a Thai woman within the short period of time the officials you encounter deem appropriate to visit Thailand for sightseeing, then there are options available. If course, if you happened to fall in love with someone of the same sex, you would be out of luck.

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, SpanishExpat said:

Don`t think that even senior IO have a safisfying salary

That is correct. However, they pay large sums for their positions. Any idea how they manage both to pay for their positions and end up wealthy? You are correct. It is not from their salaries. You may have noticed that one of the worst punishments you can give a senior Thai official is to assign them to an "inactive post". That is not because of a drop in salary.

[tjo o tjim]

11 hours ago, treetops said:

I think they're OK with people spending lots of time (and money) in Thailand, they just want them to have the right visa.  In this case, the OP doesn't appear to be a tourist but is using a tourist visa.

What constitutes a tourist though?  If you own a condo can you be a tourist for a few months a year when you visit the country?  If you come and go (for months), you pretty clearly are not a resident.  Does having friends in LOS make you not a tourist?

 

I mean it as an honest question.  The METV would make it seem like it is ok to spend 6 months coming in and out of the country, which might not be the traditional realm of a tourist, but it was common for backpackers decades ago to do that.

[captnhoy]

My situation is similar to the OP's. Just arrived on Friday on my 2nd METV after spending 5 months in my home country. I am intentionally striving for about 6 months here and 6 months at home each year. My return flight is for early April. I entered through Swampy, my passport was stamped and handed back to me and the IO said "You stay for 6 months?" I answered yes, he nodded and I went on my way with no further exchange. Now with the OP's report I am wondering about my plan to see Vietnam this year as a break and returning to Thailand afterwards. Is it as simple as finding flights out of Swampy instead of DMK? The consulate considers me to be a tourist as they issue the METV again. If not a tourist then what? It is my opinion that those TV members who side with immigration on this topic are basically endorsing the corruption scheme that is behind their actions. As a final note I was yelled at last April at the Andaman Pier by the IO who was outraged that "You are living in Thailand" and he refused to acknowledge the 6 month stay in my home country as he casually thumbed through my passport taking in the various stamps. Previously I lived in Thailand full time based on retirement. I like this balance better.

[chrisinth]

18 hours ago, Nomad001 said:

Though I wish ministry of foreign affairs would clarify and make it clear what is allowed and not with METV.Given I had to pay $300 AUD which could have been for nothing!

If you are just going to use one 60 day entry, as you have told them, then indeed you have wasted your money.

[NorthernRyland]

5 hours ago, tjo o tjim said:

What constitutes a tourist though?  If you own a condo can you be a tourist for a few months a year when you visit the country?  If you come and go (for months), you pretty clearly are not a resident.  Does having friends in LOS make you not a tourist?

 

I mean it as an honest question.  The METV would make it seem like it is ok to spend 6 months coming in and out of the country, which might not be the traditional realm of a tourist, but it was common for backpackers decades ago to do that.

There is no official definition of tourist but we can't even seem to agree on that. No one I've ever known my entire life has even gone on 2 months of vacation (the duration of tourist visa in Thailand) except for maybe college kids. We need to just roll with the punches and accept some IO's don't want us here.

[jackdd]

6 minutes ago, genericptr said:

There is no official definition of tourist

Actually there is one:

Tourism Authority of Thailand Act 1979

 "tourist" means any person who freely travels from his normal place of residence to other place for temporary period with the objective other than to carry on his occupation or to earn income;

http://www.asianlii.org/th/legis/consol_act/taota1979337/

 

[wreckingcountry]

Let’s be clear what a shocking scam immigration is ! The Thai Gov issues you with a visa after seeing all your previous visas in your passport, then the same said gov dept that issued that visa,which you paid for, them denies it is acceptable! If proof were ever needed scams work from top to bottom throughout this SE Asia Place there you have it !


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[tjo o tjim]

26 minutes ago, genericptr said:

No one I've ever known my entire life has even gone on 2 months of vacation (the duration of tourist visa in Thailand) except for maybe college kids.

I’ve done it a few times, generally between jobs, as has my wife.  She has friends (Swedish) that used to take 6 months off in Thailand for Maternity/Paternity leave.  It might not be your typical “vacation”, but it is being a tourist for sure.

 

[ICELANDMAN]

2 hours ago, captnhoy said:

My situation is similar to the OP's. Just arrived on Friday on my 2nd METV after spending 5 months in my home country. I am intentionally striving for about 6 months here and 6 months at home each year. My return flight is for early April. I entered through Swampy, my passport was stamped and handed back to me and the IO said "You stay for 6 months?" I answered yes, he nodded and I went on my way with no further exchange. Now with the OP's report I am wondering about my plan to see Vietnam this year as a break and returning to Thailand afterwards. Is it as simple as finding flights out of Swampy instead of DMK? The consulate considers me to be a tourist as they issue the METV again. If not a tourist then what? It is my opinion that those TV members who side with immigration on this topic are basically endorsing the corruption scheme that is behind their actions. As a final note I was yelled at last April at the Andaman Pier by the IO who was outraged that "You are living in Thailand" and he refused to acknowledge the 6 month stay in my home country as he casually thumbed through my passport taking in the various stamps. Previously I lived in Thailand full time based on retirement. I like this balance better.

I not see your problem, make one re-entry before go Vietnam

[Nomad001]

33 minutes ago, justin case said:

you know CM is 800 km away from BKK right ... 

Yeah true, though one must ask even if an IO at Chiang Mai started asking questions.Given there's probably no international departures ( correct me if I'm wrong) They most likely let you in.My point is and I raise the suspicion are some of the IOs at DMK getting a kick back from some airlines  when denying entry? As others have said DMK is by far the worst.Swampy there's some denials but not like DMK.

[Ooladolla]

On 10/6/2019 at 9:52 AM, DrJack54 said:

Just a suggestion. Why dont you get married in los then again in oz when your eventually there. Its just that I'm thinking you might need few more visits to los. BTW check out the other forum on Thaivisa "visas to other countries".  

Marriage in Thailand is recognised by Australia and as such you can’t marry again in Australia 

[AntipodeanThai]

Hey Please take it easy with the Consul people in Melbourne. I've found them to be lovely gentle and kind people and really very helpful when I had a slight problem; they went the extra mile. I had a METV from there and to b frank after all the reports here have decided as a senior traveller the one thing I don't want in live are hassles so let Thailand go and over in Vietnam where the welcome is wonderful. I had no problems, except a big one with a TM30,  but once or twice it took a while to get through. You may need to do some more research on an OZ marriage visa, think $7k+ and up to 2 years wait.

[orchidfan]

40 minutes ago, AntipodeanThai said:

Hey Please take it easy with the Consul people in Melbourne. I've found them to be lovely gentle and kind people and really very helpful when I had a slight problem; they went the extra mile. I had a METV from there and to b frank after all the reports here have decided as a senior traveller the one thing I don't want in live are hassles so let Thailand go and over in Vietnam where the welcome is wonderful. I had no problems, except a big one with a TM30,  but once or twice it took a while to get through. You may need to do some more research on an OZ marriage visa, think $7k+ and up to 2 years wait.

My Aussie mate in Oz with a thai wife says it's around $10k to get her Permanent Residency.(if I wanted to relocate back to Oz). AND there's no refund if the application is denied.

Just getting a tourist visa for my thai wife for a two week holiday costs around $250 visa fee and (out sourced) visa application fees. Plus 12 pages of visa application forms.

Crazy!

[zhangxifu]

Thanks to OP for sharing the experience! Good that you explained the family aspect and the problem got solved easily. That confirms their recent behaviour. Immigration targets longtime stays on tourist visas. After you go official with your relationship to your future wife and register the marriage there won't be any more problems for you to enter Thailand with the Non-O visas and you can stay as long as you like, with your family of course. Congrats!

[Just Weird]

22 hours ago, SteveK said:

"if we give you 60 days you go to Cambodia, not come back to Thailand?"

 

Why are they so scared of people spending lots of time (and money) in Thailand?

They're not "scared of tourists spending time here", they're concerned about some flouting the visa system in order to stay here permanently by claiming to be eternal tourists.   Those who do this are the ones you should be criticising, not the IOs who are doing the job that they are told to do.