Hopes for a deal dim as U.S.-China trade talks get underway in tense atmosphere

[webfact]

Hopes for a deal dim as U.S.-China trade talks get underway in tense atmosphere

By David Shepardson and David Lawder

 

FILE PHOTO: Chinese and U.S. flags flutter near The Bund, before U.S. trade delegation meet their Chinese counterparts for talks in Shanghai, China July 30, 2019. REUTERS/Aly Song

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Prospects for progress in U.S.-China trade talks dimmed on Monday after Washington blacklisted Chinese companies over Beijing's treatment of predominantly Muslim ethnic minorities, and President Donald Trump said a quick trade deal was unlikely.

 

The move by the U.S. Commerce Department could deepen divisions between Washington and Beijing at a critical juncture in their 15-month trade war that has roiled financial markets and triggered a slowdown in the global economy.

 

Another flashpoint has been a widening controversy over a tweet from a U.S. National Basketball Association official. His backing of Hong Kong democracy protests was rebuked by the NBA, sparking a backlash.

 

Trump and his top economic adviser Larry Kudlow spoke in generally upbeat terms about this week's discussions with China, the first such high-level talks in more than two months, but Trump insisted he would not be satisfied with a partial deal.

 

"We think there's a chance we could do something very substantial," Trump said, referring to minister-level talks scheduled for the end of the week. "I would much prefer a big deal and I think that's what we're shooting for."

 

Pressed to elaborate on the chances of progress this week, Trump sounded more skeptical. "Can something happen? I guess, maybe. Who knows. But I think it's probably unlikely," he said.

 

He also said he hoped China found a humane and peaceful resolution to the ongoing political protests in Hong Kong, and warned the situation had the potential to hurt trade talks.

 

"If anything happened bad, I think that would be a very bad thing for the negotiation. I think politically it would be very tough," he told reporters at the White House.

 

President Donald Trump on Monday sounded an optimistic note about this week's negotiations with China to end the trade war between the two global economic super powers, adding that he would not be satisfied with a partial deal. Rough Cut (no reporter narration).

 

Police in Hong Kong have used rubber bullets, tear gas and water cannons against pro-democracy demonstrators in the former British colony, which has been plunged into its worst political crisis in decades.

 

Beijing views U.S. support for pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong as interfering with its sovereignty.

 

FIRST HIGH-LEVEL TRADE TALKS IN MONTHS

U.S. and Chinese deputy trade negotiators on Monday launched two days of talks aimed at paving the way later this week for the first minister-level negotiations in months.

 

The White House officially confirmed that the high-level talks, involving Chinese Vice Premier Liu He, U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer and Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, would begin on Thursday.

 

The talks are getting underway about a week before U.S. tariffs on $250 billion worth of Chinese goods are scheduled to rise to 30% from 25%. Trump has said the tariff hike will take effect on Oct. 15 if no progress is made in the negotiations.

 

The two sides have been at loggerheads over U.S. demands that China improve protections of American intellectual property, end cybertheft and the forced transfer of technology to Chinese firms, curb industrial subsidies and increase U.S. companies' access to largely closed Chinese markets.

 

Trump launched a new round of tariffs after the last high-level talks in late July failed to result in agricultural purchases or yield progress on substantive issues. China quickly responded with tariff hikes of its own.

 

As Monday's talks got underway, the U.S. Agriculture Department reported more soybean exports to China, the latest in a recent flurry of buying by Beijing. China has booked deals for about 3.5 million tonnes of U.S. soybeans since early September.

 

Despite his skepticism about a likely agreement in the short term, Trump lauded what he called Beijing's "very, very strong" purchases of U.S. agricultural products.

 

Kudlow told reporters the White House had formed a "study group" to examine investment issues, but said the idea of delisting Chinese firms, reported by Reuters and other media outlets last month, was "not on the table."

 

TRADE BLACKLIST

Beijing had no immediate response on Monday to the Commerce Department's addition of 28 Chinese public security bureaus and companies to the so-called "Entity List," but Chinese officials have railed at previous listings of other Chinese firms such as telecommunications giant Huawei Technologies Co.

 

The department filing said the "entities have been implicated in human rights violations and abuses in the implementation of China's campaign of repression, mass arbitrary detention, and high-technology surveillance against Uighurs, Kazakhs, and other members of Muslim minority groups."

 

U.S. officials said the announcement was not tied to this week's resumption of trade talks with China. Those listed are barred from buying parts and components from U.S. companies without U.S. government approval.

 

Meanwhile, China's state broadcaster dropped the games of the Houston Rockets, and two Chinese corporate sponsors suspended ties, after the U.S. basketball team's General Manager Daryl Morey tweeted: "Fight for Freedom, Stand With Hong Kong."

 

He swiftly deleted the tweet and apologized to fans in China, where the Rockets have a large following.

 

U.S. lawmakers expressed anger at the NBA for calling the remarks "inappropriate", and blasted the league for what they saw as a willingness to allow China to censor free speech for the sake of profit.

 

(Additional reporting by Makini Brice; Additional reporting by Munsif Vengattil; Editing by Dan Grebler and Rosalba O'Brien)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-10-08

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[mtls2005]

There's always a tweet, or ~ seven...

 

 

[Tug]

10 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

There's always a tweet, or ~ seven...

 

 

Translation we the consumer are going to pay much more kinda like a hidden tax oh and it gets better they are talking about devalueing our money so as an extra added bonus you pay more for less!! Tired of winning yet???

[Puchaiyank]

Two economic heavy weights...duking it out!  China has held all the upper economic ground for decades...US (Donald Trump) is determined to level the playing field...Chinese are prepared to wait out 2020 elections where they can have more leverage with someone like Biden who sees every opportunity to line the pockets of his family...US employees be damned...

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

Two economic heavy weights...duking it out!  China has held all the upper economic ground for decades...US (Donald Trump) is determined to level the playing field...Chinese are prepared to wait out 2020 elections where they can have more leverage with someone like Biden who sees every opportunity to line the pockets of his family...US employees be damned...

And US could have done a lot better had they sought the support of Europe in stead of alienating them with tariffs.

[Puchaiyank]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

And US could have done a lot better had they sought the support of Europe in stead of alienating them with tariffs.

This is a China vs US turf war...not sure including Europe would have any affect...????

[mtls2005]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And US could have done a lot better had they sought the support of Europe in stead of alienating them with tariffs.

 

Or TPP?

 

At least farmers are on the dole. ~ $16 Billion.

 

 

So U.S. consumers are both paying a tax in the form of tariff (higher price), and bailing out farmers. Could we at least get some free soybeans with that new washing machine?

 

 

USDA Announces Support for Farmers Impacted by Unjustified Retaliation and Trade Disruption

 

https://www.usda.gov/media/press-releases/2019/05/23/usda-announces-support-farmers-impacted-unjustified-retaliation-and

[Banana7]

China will never sign onto a fair trade deal with USA with Trump. They will just wait until the US elections are over then deal with the new President. USA needs to pullout all the stops to get a reasonable deal. 30-50% duty on all Chinese made goods. Refuse to list all new Chinese companies on all US stock exchanges, ban all Chinese communist party members from USA, etc. etc.

 

 

[mtls2005]

17 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

30-50% duty on all Chinese made goods.

 

A 50% tax on U.S. consumers? Yeah, that'll be an easy sell.

 

18 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

Refuse to list all new Chinese companies on all US stock exchanges

You mean "legally"? Surely you haven't thought this one through?

 

18 minutes ago, Banana7 said:

ban all Chinese communist party members from USA, etc. etc.

To what end?

 

Maybe Jared/Sister should stop peddling EB-5 visas in China. I'd get behind that one.

 

 

[stevenl]

26 minutes ago, Puchaiyank said:

This is a China vs US turf war...not sure including Europe would have any affect...????

So you think forming a bloc with key allies would not have any effect. That kind of reasoning is simply nonsensical.

 

 

[neeray]

We should not concern ourselves about the trade war. No doubt Trump has a card up his sleeve (a trick learned at his failed casino), and what with his "great and unmatched wisdom", we will all have a joyus Christmas, tariffs be damned.

 

("trade wars are easy to win")

[mtls2005]

1 minute ago, neeray said:

we will all have a joyus Christmas, tariffs be damned.

 

[car720]

6 hours ago, Banana7 said:

China will never sign onto a fair trade deal with USA with Trump. They will just wait until the US elections are over then deal with the new President. USA needs to pullout all the stops to get a reasonable deal. 30-50% duty on all Chinese made goods. Refuse to list all new Chinese companies on all US stock exchanges, ban all Chinese communist party members from USA, etc. etc.

 

 

Someone who understands how to do business with the Chinese.  They will do the same to you until they get what they want.  Their thinking is simplicity itself.  We wait until we get what we want and we will get it in the end.  We don't talk, we do.

[CGW]

6 hours ago, neeray said:

We should not concern ourselves about the trade war. No doubt Trump has a card up his sleeve (a trick learned at his failed casino), and what with his "great and unmatched wisdom", we will all have a joyus Christmas, tariffs be damned.

 

("trade wars are easy to win")

As US unemployment is at the lowest level since 1969 I'm sure many of those that are now able to work again will join with you in stating that Trump has "Great and unmatched wisdom" ????

MODS please delete if this is in yet another democrats Trump knocking thread! 

[IAMHERE]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

And US could have done a lot better had they sought the support of Europe in stead of alienating them with tariffs.

Doubtful at best. 

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, IAMHERE said:

Doubtful at best. 

Thanks for clearing that up.

[Thakkar]

9 hours ago, webfact said:

Another flashpoint has been a widening controversy over a tweet from a U.S. National Basketball Association official. His backing of Hong Kong democracy protests was rebuked by the NBA, sparking a backlash.

On a related note, a recent South Park episode about an American boy band being censored in China entitled, “Band in China” was —get this—banned in China!

 

Following the ban, the show’s creators issued the kind of apology you’d expect from them:
 

 

[mtls2005]

Just now, Thakkar said:

On a related note, a recent South Park episode about an American boy band being censored in China entitled, “Band in China” was —get this—banned in China!

 

Awesome episode S23E02, especially given the NBA kerfuffle.

 

Not so much about the band, Fingerbang, being banned in China exactly. Just that Chinese producers wanted to censor their bio-pic.

 

What happens in China? Well no spoilers, but Mickey Mouse is a bit bossy, and Winnie-the-Pooh...

 

Would love to know if the language was accurate, or what they were saying...no subs.

 

 

 

[Tug]

11 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

Two economic heavy weights...duking it out!  China has held all the upper economic ground for decades...US (Donald Trump) is determined to level the playing field...Chinese are prepared to wait out 2020 elections where they can have more leverage with someone like Biden who sees every opportunity to line the pockets of his family...US employees be damned...

I would agree with you but before Donald picked this fight he has done his level best to wreck our alliances alienate our trading partners devided the American population destablise the European Union just yesterday he threw the Kurds under the bus the dude is the definition of crazy town no he is a disaster some of the ideas are good just the wrong guy heading it up

[Banana7]

13 hours ago, mtls2005 said:

 

A 50% tax on U. S. consumers? Yeah, that'll be an easy sell.

 

You mean "legally"? Surely you haven't thought this one through?

 

To what end?

 

Maybe Jared/Sister should stop peddling EB-5 visas in China. I'd get behind that one.

 

 

50% tax - no it doesn't work that way in the long run - big companies have multiple manufacturing locations and they'll just shift export demand to another country. Continue to use China resources to feed the China market.

 

Smaller exporting companies shift their production to neighbouring countries like Myanmar or Vietnam, where labour is even cheaper than China. This is already happening. These shifts may never return to China even if there is a trade deal. Lots of news article about this.

 

Already, the process to list Chinese companies has become more difficult, expensive and longer. Chinese can get their capital elsewhere. USA is blacklisting a group of Chinese tech companies that develop facial recognition and other artificial intelligence technology already - more to come.

 

Chinese Communist Party (CCP) members oppose American and Western values such as freedom of speech, freedom to choose and practice religion, etc. etc. A good percentage of Chinese students that come to USA are spies. We could say CCP members are trying to corrupt and oppose Western values.

 

 

[J Town]

Let's review:
China tariffs/trade war going miserably

North Korea love affair over

Trump throwing his closest advisers under the bus

Trump killing Kurds with a frightening unilateral decision

Schoolyard bully name calling/taunting every damned day

New whistleblowers/security specialists coming forward regarding Trump's criminal activity

Guiliana. Just plain Rudy (who himself has hired an attorney)

Multiple bankruptcies due to documented mismanagement

 

This guy has shown immature, inept and just plain ridiculous approaches to deals. When is the winning really supposed to start?