Moving w/ Thai Wife to UK - Questions about EEA Permit

[JoshBe]

Dear Forum Members,

 

- I'm a Swiss national who will be moving to the UK soon to start a new job

- My Thai wife (married for over 2 years) will follow me a few weeks later

- She needs to apply for an EEA Family Permit online

 

According to the online form, the following documents are mandatory:

 

• The passport or travel document for [My Name] from British Citizen
• The passport or travel document for [Wife's Name] from Thailand
• The national identity card issued by THA for [Wife's Name]
• Proof of [Wife's Name]'s relationship to [My Name] - for example, birth, adoption, marriage or civil partnership certificates

 

My Questions:

 

1. What does "The passport or travel document for [My Name] from British Citizen" even mean? It doesn't make sense grammatically so I assume it's some kind of error of the online form. Does my wife need to bring my original passport to the VFS office?

 

2. Do I need to certify the copies or notarize the copies? If yes, which service provider are accepted by the UK embassy? I also need to have a certified translation of the marriage certificate. Which certificate should I give them? The marriage certificate itself (the one that's usually printed on colorful, fancy paper) or the Kor Ror 2 or both?

 

3. Do I need to provide any other documents such as my employment contract, some letter from me stating my wish to bring my wife over to the UK, airline tickets, proof of funds, or anything else like that?

 

4. Are there any other requirements that are not listed anywhere such as TB test X-rays or anything like that?

 

 

And my last question: From what I've read UK citizens need to jump through more hoops than EEA/Swiss citizens (such as showing proof of funds) to bring their spouse to the UK. If that's really the case, what kind of madness is that?
 

Ok my last question was more rhetorical ???? 

[helloagain]

Phone up embassy or whoever to find out. Cos these forums you get truth or just think they know

[theoldgit]

You may wish to check if you're still elegible if the UK leaves the EU in the next week or so, especially if the UK crashes out without a deal.

CurrentlyThere will be no change to the rights and status of EU citizens currently living in the UK until 30 June 2021, or 31 December 2020 if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. You and your family can apply to the EU Settlement Scheme to continue living in the UK, but it might depend on when you actually commence your new employment.
I'm not scaremongering, I just don't know.

[theoldgit]

4 minutes ago, helloagain said:

Phone up embassy or whoever to find out. Cos these forums you get truth or just think they know

Which embassy, Swiss or British?
The British Embassy will not be able to assist the OP as they have no involvement in the visa process.

[GinBoy2]

4 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

You may wish to check if you're still elegible if the UK leaves the EU in the next week or so, especially if the UK crashes out without a deal.

CurrentlyThere will be no change to the rights and status of EU citizens currently living in the UK until 30 June 2021, or 31 December 2020 if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. You and your family can apply to the EU Settlement Scheme to continue living in the UK, but it might depend on when you actually commence your new employment.
I'm not scaremongering, I just don't know.

This is a musing American, so be gentle with me.

 

Switzerland isn't in the EU, and 'if' the UK crashes out of the EU, doesn't it still remain with the EEA, of which Switzerland is also a member?

 

If thats the case Brexit should have no effect on this

[tebee]

7 minutes ago, GinBoy2 said:

This is a musing American, so be gentle with me.

 

Switzerland isn't in the EU, and 'if' the UK crashes out of the EU, doesn't it still remain with the EEA, of which Switzerland is also a member?

 

If thats the case Brexit should have no effect on this

No, it crashes out of the EEA too 

[JoshBe]

19 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Which embassy, Swiss or British?
The British Embassy will not be able to assist the OP as they have no involvement in the visa process.

 

I've tried calling the British Embassy but I got stuck in their automated phone system and it was simply referring me to the UK government website. As far as I can tell there's no way to get in touch with some official regarding visa matters. 

 

9 minutes ago, tebee said:

No, it crashes out of the EEA too 

 

Brexit is definitely a concern. According to the gov website, the rules will change after October 31st. I will move to the UK before that so I should be fine. I also hope my wife will get the EEA FP before that date.

 

[tebee]

OK Some answers 

Firstly in theory you can just turn up on the border and the UK has to let you in - I've done this at Calais, but I suspect getting on a plane would be more problematic.

 

This BTW is all due to EU family unification regs, which mean if someone goes to work in another EU country they have an absolute right to have their family join them there  - this overrides UK immigration rules, hence why you have more rights than a UK person.

 

1. the "The passport or travel document for [My Name] from British Citizen" is your Swiss passport - will probably need to be actual document at least to show them, bring a copy too.

 

2. You will need the actual marriage certificate and a certified translation - you may also need to get this legalized by your embassy to say the marriage is recognized as such in your country. I took both colorful cert and the other sheet you get. Again take original documents and copies.

 

3. in theory no - evidence of employment might be good though as it proves you will be a worker in UK and therefore have EU workers rights. French Embassy needs flight details, which they can not legally force you to give, but only because their computer system  needs something to put in these fields.

 

4.Not that I know of.       

 

  

[JoshBe]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

OK Some answers 

Firstly in theory you can just turn up on the border and the UK has to let you in - I've done this at Calais, but I suspect getting on a plane would be more problematic.

 

This BTW is all due to EU family unification regs, which mean if someone goes to work in another EU country they have an absolute right to have their family join them there  - this overrides UK immigration rules, hence why you have more rights than a UK person.

 

1. the "The passport or travel document for [My Name] from British Citizen" is your Swiss passport - will probably need to be actual document at least to show them, bring a copy too.

 

2. You will need the actual marriage certificate and a certified translation - you may also need to get this legalized by your embassy to say the marriage is recognized as such in your country. I took both colorful cert and the other sheet you get. Again take original documents and copies.

 

3. in theory no - evidence of employment might be good though as it proves you will be a worker in UK and therefore have EU workers rights. French Embassy needs flight details, which they can not legally force you to give, but only because their computer system  needs something to put in these fields.

 

4.Not that I know of.       

 

  

 

This is great advice. Thank you very much!

[zhorik]

If the Uk leaves on ct 31st 11pm then you are in trouble as we would no longer be in the EU or the EEA.. Free movement would end then if there is a no deal. However temporaray measures will b put in place.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/no-deal-immigration-arrangements-for-eu-citizens-moving-to-the-uk-after-brexit/no-deal-immigration-arrangements-for-eu-citizens-arriving-after-brexit

Third country family members accompanying EU citizens

EU citizens who move to the UK after 31 October 2019 may be accompanied by their non-EU citizen family members. This includes direct family members (such as a spouse, civil partner or child), and extended family members (durable partners and dependent relatives), as now. They will need to be in possession of a valid national passport and an EEA family permit and will be able to stay in the UK until the end of 2020.

Close family members (spouses/partners and dependent children under 18) may apply for Euro TLR once their EU citizen sponsor has applied under the scheme. They will apply in the same way as EU citizens and need to provide required biometrics.

They will be granted Euro TLR for a period that does not exceed the end date of the Euro TLR granted to their EU citizen sponsor.

Any close family member who does not obtain Euro TLR by the end of 2020, and who does not otherwise have a right to remain in the UK, will be expected to leave the UK at that point.

[JoshBe]

22 minutes ago, zhorik said:

If the Uk leaves on ct 31st 11pm then you are in trouble as we would no longer be in the EU or the EEA.. Free movement would end then if there is a no deal. However temporaray measures will b put in place.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/no-deal-immigration-arrangements-for-eu-citizens-moving-to-the-uk-after-brexit/no-deal-immigration-arrangements-for-eu-citizens-arriving-after-brexit

Third country family members accompanying EU citizens

EU citizens who move to the UK after 31 October 2019 may be accompanied by their non-EU citizen family members. This includes direct family members (such as a spouse, civil partner or child), and extended family members (durable partners and dependent relatives), as now. They will need to be in possession of a valid national passport and an EEA family permit and will be able to stay in the UK until the end of 2020.

Close family members (spouses/partners and dependent children under 18) may apply for Euro TLR once their EU citizen sponsor has applied under the scheme. They will apply in the same way as EU citizens and need to provide required biometrics.

They will be granted Euro TLR for a period that does not exceed the end date of the Euro TLR granted to their EU citizen sponsor.

Any close family member who does not obtain Euro TLR by the end of 2020, and who does not otherwise have a right to remain in the UK, will be expected to leave the UK at that point.

 

 

Thank you for sharing this relieves some of my concerns. It looks like all the same rules that apply to EU citizens also apply to Swiss citizen. 

 

References to EU citizens also include citizens of Iceland, Liechtenstein, Norway and Switzerland, unless stated otherwise ↩

 

 

 

I forgot to ask another important question (sorry if this has been answered before in this forum but so far I only found very old threads):

Where can I get certified copies/translations that will be accepted by the UK authorities? 

[emptypockets]

7 hours ago, JoshBe said:

Proof of [Wife's Name]'s relationship to [My Name] - for example, birth, adoption, marriage or civil partnership certificates

Interesting they mention adoption.

Given the claimed age differences between some of the posters and their Thai wives this is a very progressive development!!

I think some could adopt the MIL and it still wouldn't raise an eyebrow in genteel society.

[Captain 776]

Maximum.......6-12 months she will be back in Thailand.

she will hate UK, too cold for her.

she will miss her family

her friends

her food

 

 

[BigFun]

7 hours ago, tebee said:

OK Some answers 

Firstly in theory you can just turn up on the border and the UK has to let you in - I've done this at Calais, but I suspect getting on a plane would be more problematic.

 

This BTW is all due to EU family unification regs, which mean if someone goes to work in another EU country they have an absolute right to have their family join them there  - this overrides UK immigration rules, hence why you have more rights than a UK person.

 

1. the "The passport or travel document for [My Name] from British Citizen" is your Swiss passport - will probably need to be actual document at least to show them, bring a copy too.

 

2. You will need the actual marriage certificate and a certified translation - you may also need to get this legalized by your embassy to say the marriage is recognized as such in your country. I took both colorful cert and the other sheet you get. Again take original documents and copies.

 

3. in theory no - evidence of employment might be good though as it proves you will be a worker in UK and therefore have EU workers rights. French Embassy needs flight details, which they can not legally force you to give, but only because their computer system  needs something to put in these fields.

 

4.Not that I know of.       

 

  

F' me...you have made a fence sitting Brexiter more pro Brexit now...wow...

[tebee]

9 minutes ago, BigFun said:

F' me...you have made a fence sitting Brexiter more pro Brexit now...wow...

But it also meant that I, as a British person working in France, has the right to have my Thai wife join me there and then take her back to the UK with me !

free movement is a two way street 

[Letseng]

9 hours ago, theoldgit said:

You may wish to check if you're still elegible if the UK leaves the EU in the next week or so, especially if the UK crashes out without a deal.

CurrentlyThere will be no change to the rights and status of EU citizens currently living in the UK until 30 June 2021, or 31 December 2020 if the UK leaves the EU without a deal. You and your family can apply to the EU Settlement Scheme to continue living in the UK, but it might depend on when you actually commence your new employment.
I'm not scaremongering, I just don't know.

If Britain crashes out,  EU rules end on 31 Oct this year.

[BobbyL]

9 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

Maximum.......6-12 months she will be back in Thailand.

she will hate UK, too cold for her.

she will miss her family

her friends

her food

 

 

Sometimes, yes. However, not always true and I think it very much depends on how westernised his wife already is. 

 

My wife enjoyed living in England for two years and it was me who wanted to leave more than her. For all the <deleted> there, living in a big city does have some enjoyable factors. 

[JoshBe]

14 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

Maximum.......6-12 months she will be back in Thailand.

she will hate UK, too cold for her.

she will miss her family

her friends

her food

 

 

 

Not just her... I can't stand cold weather either. But then again we're both kind of glad that we're leaving Bangkok. The pollution and the traffic are getting worse every year. 

 

 

 

Thank you all for the answers. I still have don't know what to do about the translation. From my research, it's not necessary to have the translations legalized at the MFA. However some translation agencies offer legalization at the UK embassy. Do I need to do that? I'd rather save a few thousand bath if it's not necessary.

 

[tebee]

3 hours ago, JoshBe said:

 

Not just her... I can't stand cold weather either. But then again we're both kind of glad that we're leaving Bangkok. The pollution and the traffic are getting worse every year. 

 

 

 

Thank you all for the answers. I still have don't know what to do about the translation. From my research, it's not necessary to have the translations legalized at the MFA. However some translation agencies offer legalization at the UK embassy. Do I need to do that? I'd rather save a few thousand bath if it's not necessary.

 

My wife is back in Bangkok at the moment for very much the same reason - our plan is that when I've sorted out brexit and my pension, which i'm currently in the middle of doing, we will spend winters in Thailand and summers in Europe.

 

As far as I know legalization has to be done by your embassy as it's saying that your marriage is recognized as legal in your country, which the British embassy would not be competent to do.

 

it's not 100% necessary  but it got us our visas quicker the first time as they didn't need to check the validity of the marriage.  

[JoshBe]

1 hour ago, tebee said:

My wife is back in Bangkok at the moment for very much the same reason - our plan is that when I've sorted out brexit and my pension, which i'm currently in the middle of doing, we will spend winters in Thailand and summers in Europe.

 

As far as I know legalization has to be done by your embassy as it's saying that your marriage is recognized as legal in your country, which the British embassy would not be competent to do.

 

it's not 100% necessary  but it got us our visas quicker the first time as they didn't need to check the validity of the marriage.  

 

Thank you for your help

 

It looks like I won't be able to get a confirmation document for my marriage from Switzerland. I would need to order it from Switzerland and it might take a while to arrive. 

I hope the translation of the Thai documents will be enough. 

 

I assume my wife will need to go to the VFS center once the online form is completed. Should we bring a copy or a certified copy of my passport? In case we have to bring the original passport, are they going to give it back to me immediately?

 

 

[RedPill]

On 10/8/2019 at 3:14 PM, GinBoy2 said:

This is a musing American, so be gentle with me.

 

Switzerland isn't in the EU, and 'if' the UK crashes out of the EU, doesn't it still remain with the EEA, of which Switzerland is also a member?

 

If thats the case Brexit should have no effect on this

Yes, that's an interesting topic for the OP. Brings up memories to me ...

 

Switzerland is not in the EU, nor part of the EEA, but on the UK gov website, when they mention EU/EEA, they always add the Swiss to it separately, as part of it, ie.:

 

If you’re a family member of an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen

You can apply if you’re in a relationship with an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen as their spouse, civil partner or unmarried partner.

You can also apply if you’re related to an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, their spouse or civil partner as ....

 

But indeed, after Brexit, this all could change. I have a lot of ex-colleagues in the UK, EU passport holders, having their spouses (with EU passports) based on EEA living with them.

 

Even they are all not sure what's going to happen. And they live and worked there for many years.

 

Bringing in a Thai girl now, based on only EEA, when not even living & working there fully as of yet ... wow, I can see all the running and paperwork piling up in front of me.

 

Good luck to the OP!

 

 

[JoshBe]

5 minutes ago, RedPill said:

Yes, that's an interesting topic for the OP. Brings up memories to me ...

 

Switzerland is not in the EU, nor part of the EEA, but on the UK gov website, when they mention EU/EEA, they always add the Swiss to it separately, as part of it, ie.:

 

If you’re a family member of an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen

You can apply if you’re in a relationship with an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen as their spouse, civil partner or unmarried partner.

You can also apply if you’re related to an EU, EEA or Swiss citizen, their spouse or civil partner as ....

 

But indeed, after Brexit, this all could change. I have a lot of ex-colleagues in the UK, EU passport holders, having their spouses (with EU passports) based on EEA living with them.

 

Even they are all not sure what's going to happen. And they live and worked there for many years.

 

Bringing in a Thai girl now, based on only EEA, when not even living & working there fully as of yet ... wow, I can see all the running and paperwork piling up in front of me.

 

Good luck to the OP!

 

 

 

 

Haha thanks I guess ????

 

According to government website all procedure after Brexit seem pretty clear. As long as I enter the UK before Oct. 31st I should be fine. After that they might use a point system for immigrants similar to Australia.

That being said, we might always encounter uncooperative officials that might turn our life into a kafkaesque hellhole. 

 

 

[RedPill]

16 hours ago, tebee said:

But it also meant that I, as a British person working in France, has the right to have my Thai wife join me there and then take her back to the UK with me !

free movement is a two way street 

And after Brexit ... still same thing?

 

Could you go as a British person working in France and have the right to bring your Thai wife?

 

Or what is changing? I don't know, will be interesting to see ...

 

[RedPill]

21 minutes ago, JoshBe said:

 

 

Haha thanks I guess ????

 

According to government website all procedure after Brexit seem pretty clear. As long as I enter the UK before Oct. 31st I should be fine. After that they might use a point system for immigrants similar to Australia.

That being said, we might always encounter uncooperative officials that might turn our life into a kafkaesque hellhole. 

 

 

I feel for you ???? Good that I got this behind me. I got binders full of papers and visa docs to get a Thai girl into the UK when I was working there.

 

Love will overcome all the hurdles .. you can do this! ????

 

[crazydrummerpauly]

19 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

Maximum.......6-12 months she will be back in Thailand.

she will hate UK, too cold for her.

she will miss her family

her friends

her food

 

 

Thai wife been with me in the uk for 3 years 2 months - loves her job which pays 4 times more than she'd get back in LoS, eats Thai food whenever she wants, of course, and it is ME who complains about the bloody cold !  Best not to generalise ?

[RedPill]

20 hours ago, Captain 776 said:

Maximum.......6-12 months she will be back in Thailand.

she will hate UK, too cold for her.

she will miss her family

her friends

her food

 

 

To be honest, that's what a holiday is good for! Of course they love being back in Thailand to see and visit family and eat Thai food.

 

Same for you, living in Thailand, loving being back home, seeing family and eat your food, you grew up with.

 

Thinking about it, I know a lot of Thai ladies who live abroad, and are more than happy that they are not living in Thailand, and are happy to go back to Europe. And come back to Thailand for only a holiday.

 

And very often, they do it for 3-4 month per holiday. The husbands will follow up later, at one point in time, when they get 2 weeks off.

 

I see this a lot in my neighborhood ... Thai girls happy living abroad, coming home to Thailand for 3 month ... the husbands follow for a few days. But they all love going back. 

 

 

[zhorik]

But it also meant that I, as a British person working in France, has the right to have my Thai wife join me there and then take her back to the UK with me !

free movement is a two way street 

no it is not. as a british person and as your  wife is Thati you would have to comply with all British immigration rules. For a non british  EU citizen it is free at least until jan 31st but as a british passport holder you have to pay the fee and pass the income, housing tests. Notarised copies of a translation are requiredfor marriage certifcates when the certificate or marriage book is not  for in English. It is also required when a British person applies for a schengen visa for their spouse.  When i applied the French consulate accepted the english version but the italians insisted on it being in italian and certified by their  foreign embassy. that may have changed as i complained to the EU as i deemd it an unneccessary obstacle to freedom of movement.

[zhorik]

ps.

You can marriage certifcates and other documents translated and notarised online.

a quick google searh found this

https://www.universal-translation-services.com/services/certified-translations/notarized-translation-services/

https://translation.babylon-software.com/english/notarize

there are probably lots more

[JoshBe]

Quick update: My wife got the EEA permit without an issue.

 

Thank you all for your advice. PM me if you need any details. Cheers