Jump to content
BANGKOK
snoop1130

Britain tells EU: compromise on Brexit or we'll get nasty: Spectator source

Recommended Posts

58 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The main factor will be borrowing, growth is forecast to be about half of what it's been. The brexit dividend was never anything more than a myth.

 

* Borrowing set to be more than £50bn next year – more than double the official forecast as recently as March.

* At 2.3 per cent, this would breach the ceiling of 2 per cent of national income, imposed by the chancellor’s own fiscal rules.

* Even a “relatively benign no-deal Brexit” would send borrowing close to the £100bn mark – and debt to almost 90 per cent of national income for the first time since the mid 1960s.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/uk-economy-brexit-boris-johnson-institute-fiscal-studies-growth-exports-a9146386.html

If it's austerity it's bad. If it's extra spending/borrowing it's bad. This decision is not dependent on Brexit.

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, sandyf said:

Of course there has always been eurosceptics but not to the extent you make out.

Those that did not understand brexit were misled by politicians that did not understand brexit.

One factor that many would rather ignore is the anti government sentiment that existed at the time as a result of a prolonged period of austerity. The irony is that those that voted against the government because of austerity were in fact voting for further austerity.

You obviously have no idea how many leavers have understood what, why and for how long.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
35 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Bit of a far fetched assumption. I would suspect that a GE will result in another Tory /Lib Dem coalition.

Impossible to 'call' as the majority of tory MPs have no interest in leaving - but are reluctant to be so obvious.

 

I doubt it would be a Tory/Lib coalition as the latest reincarnation of the Libs. are 100% revoke article 50 - anathema to a large percentage of the voting population.

 

Not that it matters, as the main political players (Con./Labour) already know they will look even more silly if there is another GE in the near future.

Edited by el torro
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly free to believe that a vote against JC was a vote for brexit.

A GE never has and never will provide an answer to the brexit question. If the 2017 GE had answered the question then we wouldn't be in this mess. TM threw away the majority and had to bribe the DUP, what sort of answer was that.

It is highly likely that come the GE the vote will be more distributed than ever before. You are probably quite right that Farage will take a hefty slice of the vote but no one is going to get into bed with him and there is every chance there will have to be an alliance.

 

Indeed, and irrespective of other issues Brexit will the absolute key focus.

 

I believe an alliance will be required on both sides of the Brexit divide. When push comes to shove the Tories are the only party that COULD win outright (I don’t think that they will). Labour are in disarray and have singularly failed to take advantage of the mess the Tories have made of things. Surely no one would trust Corbyn to run a raffle let alone the country. The Lib Dems have casually hovered up snowflakes and defectors to add to their moderate electorate. I was no fan of Cable but his “<deleted> to Brexit” polarized the party as the only truly Remain party. Swinson scares me with her ineptitude.

 

If Johnson’s discussions come to nought then I would say (Cable style) “<deleted> to a deal” we will go all in with a clean Brexit and give Farage his 90 seats.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You are perfectly free to believe that a vote against JC was a vote for brexit.

A GE never has and never will provide an answer to the brexit question. If the 2017 GE had answered the question then we wouldn't be in this mess. TM threw away the majority and had to bribe the DUP, what sort of answer was that.

It is highly likely that come the GE the vote will be more distributed than ever before. You are probably quite right that Farage will take a hefty slice of the vote but no one is going to get into bed with him and there is every chance there will have to be an alliance.

I agree with a lot of this, but I'm still shocked at the appalling policies that May and her advisors came up with as a GE strategy!

 

'Conspiracy' does spring to mind in an otherwise predictable election.  (And I say this as someone who would NEVER vote for the tories!)

 

Nonetheless, both the tories and labours' election manifestos said that they would respect the referendum result - as has been pointed out in numerous threads.

 

But I do agree that in the next GE the vote is likely to be more distributed than ever before.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, el torro said:

You forgot the Express and, sadly, the Guardian/Independent (😂) and Telegraph.

 

Newspapers are making it ever more clear that they are far from unbiased.

 

This has always been the case obviously - but hopefully it will be a 'wake up' call to those with an open mind that all their reporting is biased in one way or another.

 

David555's post that brexit would lead to a shortage of toilet paper :shock1:😂 pretty much encapsulates most of what has been said in MSM!

 

All media today is for entertainment purposes only. There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades.

 

Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."

 

I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting. Don't use these gems as toilet paper. In several hundred years they could be literary masterpieces, demonstrating the pretentiousness of an entire civilization. It is unconscionable you could think to deprive students 1000 years from now the opportunity to read this modern poetry simply for lack of a bum gun.

 

  • Thanks 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Monomial said:

 

All media today is for entertainment purposes only. There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades.

 

Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."

 

I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting. Don't use these gems as toilet paper. In several hundred years they could be literary masterpieces, demonstrating the pretentiousness of an entire civilization. It is unconscionable you could think to deprive students 1000 years from now the opportunity to read this modern poetry simply for lack of a bum gun.

 

"There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades."

 

I agree.

 

"Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."

 

Personally, I could do without it as it tends to irritate, rather than entertain.  Not to mention, all the remainers on these threads seem to believe the propaganda spouted.

 

"I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting."

 

They've been doing this for decades - pointing out the obvious bias between different newspaper articles on the same subject.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
"There hasn't been such a thing as unbiased journalism for decades."
 
I agree.
 
"Personally, I enjoy reading the Express talking about the EU being "terrified" of the UK succeeding in brexit, or the independent talking about the "twisted world view" of the brexiteers and that a no deal brexit will lead to a "total collapse of the UK."
 
Personally, I could do without it as it tends to irritate, rather than entertain.  Not to mention, all the remainers on these threads seem to believe the propaganda spouted.
 
"I actually think you could build a university literature curriculum entirely around the use of hyperbole in modern reporting."
 
They've been doing this for decades - pointing out the obvious bias between different newspaper articles on the same subject.
 
Remainers unlikely to be stupid enough to read the Daily Express.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

  • Like 1
  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

Indeed, and irrespective of other issues Brexit will the absolute key focus.

If that were to be the case then all things being equal then the Lib Dems would get about 16.8 million and the 17.2 split in other directions.

Never going to happen, GEs do not work that way  so can never be a substitute for a referendum. More of a lottery than an answer to the brexit question.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 hours ago, nauseus said:

If it's austerity it's bad. If it's extra spending/borrowing it's bad. This decision is not dependent on Brexit.

 

Refusal to face reality is what got us in this mess.

They could shut the factory and throw away the keys and all we would see would be the shouts of project fear, claiming nothing more than a holiday.

 

Nissan warns no-deal Brexit would make entire European business model ‘unsustainable’

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/nissan-brexit-no-deal-europe-unsustainable-car-industry-a9151296.html

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, nauseus said:

You obviously have no idea how many leavers have understood what, why and for how long.

Obviously the words "In my opinion" were a deliberate omission.

I know a fairly large number of people that voted to leave and not one of them was based on long term anti EU sentiment. The most common arguments were GP waiting times and "too many foreigners". Problems of the UK's own making.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
46 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Obviously the words "In my opinion" were a deliberate omission.

I know a fairly large number of people that voted to leave and not one of them was based on long term anti EU sentiment. The most common arguments were GP waiting times and "too many foreigners". Problems of the UK's own making.

Bet you don't know all 17.4 million of them. Just my opinion/guess, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Nigel Garvie said:

However the demise of the worst Tory government I have seen in my lifetime would be a great blessing for UK, and indeed the rest of the world. Rarely in politics has a cabinet so dishonest, inadequate, self serving, uncaring, venal, and incompetent ever been assembled. 

Apologies for extracting this viewpoint. I completely agree with the comments - a pity Rory Stewart is considering leaving the political scene - he's the one politician I could trust to play with a straight bat.

 

In a GE it is feasible that the Brexit party would soak up a few tory seats, as would the LD who would be given a free ride in marginal seats held by the tories. IMO, a hung parliament is not out of the question despite the current polls showing a healthy lead for the tories. 

 

Whether that would improve matters, is questionable, but it could rein in the extremists to a more broad church approach.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

Ah, so you didn't study the post referendum reports on why constituencies voted the way they did. It is quite enlightening. For example, in middlesboro men in a job queue said they voted leave because it had to be better than now - austerity biting. There are many other reasons quantified why people voted to leave, e.g. distrust of the EU by working class families on council estates, fears of immigrants taking jobs, etc etc.  None of which was about ideology. Which is what johnson and his right-wing cronies are pursuing, using the referendum vote as the rationale.

This is exactly it, a vote to remain is a vote for 'no change', and the poorer people in the UK can't see anything worse than their current position. A vote to leave is a vote for 'change', life at the moment is pooh, so let's roll the dice.

Edited by BritManToo
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...