sirineou Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 minute ago, heybruce said: How many Trump supporters are such hypocrites as to care about imagined impeachment precedents but not about the precedent of Presidents releasing their tax returns? Trump supporters are obsessive about honesty, transparency, conflicts of interest and precedents when it comes to Trump's critics, but don't care at all about Trump's flagrant lies, opaqueness, conflicts of interest and disdain for precedents. It really is very strange, I think to them it has become a game. Like supporting a baseball team , almost like being a Mets fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, heybruce said: That in no way invalidates what the whistle blower has reported, which has been verified by the White House. The "whistleblower" is a leaker whose "testimony" is tainted, dubious, politically motivated and inaccurate. If he/she is produced in public and robustly questioned they will leak like a sieve. That's why they are keeping him in hiding. You cant hide forever. Till then, there will be new facts that emerge about this person. Already it's looking like a sham. The Prez was doing his job telling Ukraine to look into corruption, if Biden happens to be at the centre of it, thats just too bad. Nancy Pelosi says: 'no one is above the law'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
landtrout Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 hours ago, Monomial said: I have long since given up trusting the mainstream media to present anything even closely resembling a balanced viewpoint. They are all commercial enterprises now, catering to their audience and presenting only the evidence that is likely to get a warm reception by their readers. So I decided to try some informal research on my own. I already understand the pro impeachment argument, because to me it is quite clear Trump broke the law, but I wanted to understand how Trump supporters viewed his actions. So rather than go in snarling venomous obscenities about how stupid and racist they are for supporting a demagogue as president, I actully tried something very rare in this day and age...I tried to understand their values and viewpoint. The result was interesting, and I suggest everyone try it rather than hurling insults at people who don't agree with you. It's actually much more productive. I actually called some aquaintences I hadn't spoken with for a while to catch up and ask their opinion. What I learned from my investigation is that a large number of Trump supporters also agree that he broke the law, but they view this transgression as very minor. Kind of akin to littering. In their mind, had Trump done something truly eggregious, like planting evidence or attempting to frame someone for a crime they didn't commit, that would be a step too far. But Trump was simply trying to bring exposure to the truth, which people feel was being covered up by the establishment. In other words, this whole thing is another example of Trump trying to "drain the swamp", and they think this is a good thing, even if the method he used to do it might be a technical infraction. After all, the laws are written to protect those in Washington from being responsible for their actions. There is no apetite that I could find in the Trump support base for conviction on this offense, and it is viewed as simply a Democratic smear campaign to denigrate a man trying to expose the hypocrisy that is politics today. I think this effort was instructive. Unless there is more to this story that hasn't yet been revealed, based on what I heard, the answer is probably no. Trump supporters seem to have a perspective that approves of what he did, rather than disapprove. Of course, the less radical believers want to hear more and don't mind the scrutiny of an impeachment hearing, but the bias is obvious. "If Clinton can commit perjury and not be convicted, certainly Trump shouldn't be convicted merely for overreaching to expose corruption." So I am convinced he won't be convicted. The blowback from voters would be unacceptable to the Republican Senate. You can disagree. I certainly believe it is in the best interest of the country to see Trump gone. But I don't see any universe in which it happens unless what he did is a lot more serious than what has been accused of. Eeewwww! I appreciate your sacrifice and analysis, and would probably take your suggestion, but... I no longer know a single Trump supporter. I'm on friendly terms with thousands of Americans, and a small percentage of them (mostly family...) were duped into voting for Trump in '16. Most of those have valiantly attempted to justify that decision (in spite of the overwhelming evidence that they'd been played...) over the course of the past two and a half years, but the last couple of weeks have been the straw that's broken the proverbial camel's back. At this point, I don't know a single American who hasn't come to the realization that the future of our nation is in dire jeopardy, and that this cancer must be eradicated before it's allowed to metastasize. I can't imagine that my situation is unique? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riclag Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 23 minutes ago, landtrout said: Eeewwww! I appreciate your sacrifice and analysis, and would probably take your suggestion, but... I no longer know a single Trump supporter. I'm on friendly terms with thousands of Americans, and a small percentage of them (mostly family...) were duped into voting for Trump in '16. Most of those have valiantly attempted to justify that decision (in spite of the overwhelming evidence that they'd been played...) over the course of the past two and a half years, but the last couple of weeks have been the straw that's broken the proverbial camel's back. At this point, I don't know a single American who hasn't come to the realization that the future of our nation is in dire jeopardy, and that this cancer must be eradicated before it's allowed to metastasize. I can't imagine that my situation is unique? I agree, the future of the nation and the office of future POTUS is in dire jeopardy, all caused by the dems, so lets have a formal impeachment. It sounds like your a countryman! Lets have due process with a debate and vote on the house floor by all house members, so all Americans can see! It would be nice to have debate with out media propaganda . Fair enough! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Numerous off-topic, troll and inflammatory posts and replies removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candide Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: The "whistleblower" is a leaker whose "testimony" is tainted, dubious, politically motivated and inaccurate. If he/she is produced in public and robustly questioned they will leak like a sieve. That's why they are keeping him in hiding. You cant hide forever. Till then, there will be new facts that emerge about this person. Already it's looking like a sham. The Prez was doing his job telling Ukraine to look into corruption, if Biden happens to be at the centre of it, thats just too bad. Nancy Pelosi says: 'no one is above the law'. What is "dubious" and "inaccurate"? - Trump pressuring a foreign country to get dirt on his political opponent: confirmed by Trump himself (call memo, speech on TV) - the role played by Giuliani: confirmed, includind by Giuliani himself - secret crypted computer: confirmed - link with withholding aid: not fully confirmed but directly evoked by Taylor. So what exactly is dubious and inaccurate in his statement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heybruce Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 6 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: The "whistleblower" is a leaker whose "testimony" is tainted, dubious, politically motivated and inaccurate. If he/she is produced in public and robustly questioned they will leak like a sieve. That's why they are keeping him in hiding. You cant hide forever. Till then, there will be new facts that emerge about this person. Already it's looking like a sham. The Prez was doing his job telling Ukraine to look into corruption, if Biden happens to be at the centre of it, thats just too bad. Nancy Pelosi says: 'no one is above the law'. In addition to Candide's post above, let's remember that the identities of whistle blowers are kept secret to prevent retaliation. In view of the fact that Trump has stated that he considers this whistle blower a spy and indicated he should be executed, it is especially important to keep his identity secret. You don't investigate someone for corruption unless you have evidence indicating the investigation is warranted. There is no evidence that Biden did anything other than his job. There is evidence Trump abused his power and asked a foreign leader for election help. That is why Trump is being investigated. Trump's refusal to provide required information makes him look even more guilty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 12 hours ago, metempsychotic said: amused by the number of people on here down on the "former" junta currently governing thailand who are delighted by similar antics perpetrated in the us Leave me out, I have never supported Trump’s corruption of the DoJ, the Judiciary, The Dept of State and the office of President. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chomper Higgot Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 7 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: The "whistleblower" is a leaker whose "testimony" is tainted, dubious, politically motivated and inaccurate. If he/she is produced in public and robustly questioned they will leak like a sieve. That's why they are keeping him in hiding. You cant hide forever. Till then, there will be new facts that emerge about this person. Already it's looking like a sham. The Prez was doing his job telling Ukraine to look into corruption, if Biden happens to be at the centre of it, thats just too bad. Nancy Pelosi says: 'no one is above the law'. The veracity of a significant part of the Whistleblower’s report was proven when the WH released a partial transcript of one of the phone calls reported by the Whistleblower. So strike one against your claims. More than this, the Whistleblower has told us where the rest of the evidence is hidden. Brace yourself for strike 2 and more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 5:46 AM, PatOngo said: Put your hand on your heart's, wrap yourselves in Ol' Glory, make sure your bump stock AR15 is loaded, send a donation to the NRA and God Bless America! Oh, it's their hearts! I had rather assumed that they were checking to see if they still had their wallets! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeptic7 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 8 hours ago, landtrout said: Eeewwww! I appreciate your sacrifice and analysis, and would probably take your suggestion, but... I no longer know a single Trump supporter. I'm on friendly terms with thousands of Americans, and a small percentage of them (mostly family...) were duped into voting for Trump in '16. Most of those have valiantly attempted to justify that decision (in spite of the overwhelming evidence that they'd been played...) over the course of the past two and a half years, but the last couple of weeks have been the straw that's broken the proverbial camel's back. At this point, I don't know a single American who hasn't come to the realization that the future of our nation is in dire jeopardy, and that this cancer must be eradicated before it's allowed to metastasize. I can't imagine that my situation is unique? Wishful thinking and I wish it was true. However...he still has his idiotic, hypocritical evangelical base. While he hopefully has lost alot of support from those with even half a brain...his base is dedicated to him, as he gives them special privileges and stacks the courts with judges whom put biblical superstition before constitution. They vote and they staunchly support him. They will support anyone, no matter how vile and crazy, who gives them special treatment, lies for them and violates the Constitution in their favor. He is that soneone. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Loh Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 14 hours ago, rgraham said: Three years of this circus and they still refuse to go back to work, sad batch we have placed in congress. They just follow their leader whose working schedule is only 60% in last 3 months and mostly consisted of schedule on the President’s discretion and aren’t listed with specific activities like staff meeting or meeting world leaders. Much to speculate about the value of his ‘working schedule’. He does play lots of golf though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PatOngo Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 15 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: Doesn't take a genius to see that this is an illegitimate and one-sided impeachment ATTEMPT. Pelosi should take the vote which she will win....and then watch as Trump flattens them all. Will he then land on the deck of an aircraft carrier under the banners claiming "Mission Accomplished!"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 9 hours ago, riclag said: I agree, the future of the nation and the office of future POTUS is in dire jeopardy, all caused by the dems, so lets have a formal impeachment. It sounds like your a countryman! Lets have due process with a debate and vote on the house floor by all house members, so all Americans can see! It would be nice to have debate with out media propaganda . Fair enough! Be patient riclag lol they are still uncovering more crimes and watching the polls as the support grows to get rid of this guy he’s getting so far out there maybe an article 25 would save everyone a lot of hassle and maybe trump a little face Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAG Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, Tug said: Be patient riclag lol they are still uncovering more crimes and watching the polls as the support grows to get rid of this guy he’s getting so far out there maybe an article 25 would save everyone a lot of hassle and maybe trump a little face There will have to be a number of deals struck with various agencies first though, won't there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 12 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: The "whistleblower" is a leaker whose "testimony" is tainted, dubious, politically motivated and inaccurate. If he/she is produced in public and robustly questioned they will leak like a sieve. That's why they are keeping him in hiding. You cant hide forever. Till then, there will be new facts that emerge about this person. Already it's looking like a sham. The Prez was doing his job telling Ukraine to look into corruption, if Biden happens to be at the centre of it, thats just too bad. Nancy Pelosi says: 'no one is above the law'. Since you apparently know who this person is, can you please share her or his identity with us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JHolmesJr Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 10:03 PM, bristolboy said: Since you apparently know who this person is, can you please share her or his identity with us? You won't find the identity by trawling for internet links to cut and paste here. Requires independent intelligence. But if you're in the White House, where all activities are logged, it's not really hard to figure it out, is it? Here's a brain wave for you: I would start with getting the names of EVERYone who had anything to do with that call....and see who isnt coming to work any more. Who has had a sudden family emergency....wedding, funeral, hernia operation etc etc. Look at CCTV...see who has stepped out for a few hours without official business to attend to. Narrow it down from there. I suspect the Don already knew from day one....but they are trying to shield this person from coming to any harm because it would be pinned on them and cited as intention to cover up. There's nothing to cover up here. This is just an allergic reaction from the swamp because they know the jig is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roobaa01 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 27 minutes ago, bristolboy said: Which does nothing at all to back up your assertion that this report was motivated by bias on the part of the whistleblower. And your assumption that the person worked at the White House is backed by what? Supposedly this person was a liaison detailed to the White House at one point. So not necessarily regularly there. Perhaps no longer even detailed to the WH when the report was filed. As for links.,,you see, I can link to things because I'm acquainted with the information that's out there. So that limits my ability to fantasize. A handicap apparently you don't suffer from. the informant or saboteur was politically partisian with a hearsay complaint. thereto it worked professionally with a dem hopeful candidate. moreover it approached schiff before complaint issue. all from the hill and fox news. hence it makes it a questionable character. wbr roobaa01 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelsall Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 5 hours ago, Tug said: Be patient riclag lol they are still uncovering more crimes and watching the polls as the support grows to get rid of this guy he’s getting so far out there maybe an article 25 would save everyone a lot of hassle and maybe trump a little face Or you could do it the old fashioned way and vote Trump out of office in 13 months. But we know that can't be done, right? As Dem Rep Al Green said, "I am concerned if we don’t impeach this president, he will get re-elected." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Nick Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 15 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: The "whistleblower" is a leaker whose "testimony" is tainted, dubious, politically motivated and inaccurate. If he/she is produced in public and robustly questioned they will leak like a sieve. That's why they are keeping him in hiding. You cant hide forever. Till then, there will be new facts that emerge about this person. Already it's looking like a sham. The Prez was doing his job telling Ukraine to look into corruption, if Biden happens to be at the centre of it, thats just too bad. Nancy Pelosi says: 'no one is above the law'. Dude...what does it matter? Trump and his henchmen issued the "memo" of the transcript (because the call was so "perfect", the transcript has to be hidden away!) and it is already all there! Word for word! Wake up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 A post containing a link to a late night comedy show has been removed as it is not a credible news source. Other troll posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sujo Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 It just keeps getting better. Add this to the investigation. Get Tillerson in to ask if trump asked him to drop investigation to giulianos client. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/trump-reza-zarrab-giuliani-turkey-erdogan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Town Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 58 minutes ago, Saint Nick said: Dude...what does it matter? Trump and his henchmen issued the "memo" of the transcript (because the call was so "perfect", the transcript has to be hidden away!) and it is already all there! Word for word! Wake up! Actually, it was quite redacted. On the very first page of the released transcript it says "CAUTION: A memorandum of a Telephone Conversation (TELCON) is not a verbatim transcript" You can read it all here: https://www.vox.com/2019/9/25/20883325/transcript-trump-ukraine-president-impeachment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J Town Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, Sujo said: It just keeps getting better. Add this to the investigation. Get Tillerson in to ask if trump asked him to drop investigation to giulianos client. https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2019/10/trump-reza-zarrab-giuliani-turkey-erdogan And, as Tillerson no longer works for the White House, Trump can't place a gag order on him. The plot thickens! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 The Feds just arrested two of Giulani's cohorts at DC airport with one way tickets out of the US. They are the two that congress wanted to testify. They had just had lunch with the Mayor. Giuliani might want to run and hide . Trump put new tires on the "bus" and is probably warming up the engine as I type! Although, the arrest might put a damper on any congressional appearance by the two, they are now indicted for campaign finance violations and other charges and probably would just take the 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thaibeachlovers Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 On 10/9/2019 at 6:01 PM, Sujo said: He has no choice. It was republicans that changed the rules. If he doesnt comply its an impeachable offence. He has nothing to lose by refusing as everything has to go through the courts. They have been trying to find something to impeach him on for 2 years, so why should he co operate by walking into the lion's den? What are they going to do anyway? They can hardly sent the sheriff to arrest him 55555555555555555555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bristolboy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 21 hours ago, JHolmesJr said: You won't find the identity by trawling for internet links to cut and paste here. Requires independent intelligence. But if you're in the White House, where all activities are logged, it's not really hard to figure it out, is it? Here's a brain wave for you: I would start with getting the names of EVERYone who had anything to do with that call....and see who isnt coming to work any more. Who has had a sudden family emergency....wedding, funeral, hernia operation etc etc. Look at CCTV...see who has stepped out for a few hours without official business to attend to. Narrow it down from there. I suspect the Don already knew from day one....but they are trying to shield this person from coming to any harm because it would be pinned on them and cited as intention to cover up. There's nothing to cover up here. This is just an allergic reaction from the swamp because they know the jig is up. What it requires is knowledge. For example the knowledge that supposedly the whistleblower was a liason, not necessarily someone who was expected to show up at the White House every day. So, no, your approach to detecting who it was is hardly surefire. And if Trump knew, given his remarkably poor impulse control, I think we'd all know at least that he knows who the whistleblower is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtls2005 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 18 hours ago, J Town said: And, as Tillerson no longer works for the White House, Trump can't place a gag order on him. The plot thickens! Speaking of State, believe pompeo will have to resign. Other than serving as a bag-man for the president there is nothing else he is capable of doing. No countries will trust him. Self-neutered. This senior aide has supposedly resigned in protest. Fiona Hill will be testifying. Hope Ms. Yovanovitch agrees to testify over pompeo's orders not to do so. Senior Pompeo aide steps down amid impeachment inquiry A career diplomat who served as senior advisor to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has decided to step down, two State Department officials told NBC News on Thursday, just as foreign service officers find themselves caught in the middle of a confrontation between the White House and Democratic lawmakers leading an impeachment inquiry. P. Michael McKinley, a seasoned foreign service officer who served as ambassador to Afghanistan, Colombia, Brazil and Peru, has told his colleagues he is resigning, the two officials said. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/senior-pompeo-aide-steps-down-amid-impeachment-inquiry-n1064866 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayned Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 10 minutes ago, mtls2005 said: Speaking of State, believe pompeo will have to resign. Other than serving as a bag-man for the president there is nothing else he is capable of doing. No countries will trust him. Self-neutered. This senior aide has supposedly resigned in protest. Fiona Hill will be testifying. Hope Ms. Yovanovitch agrees to testify over pompeo's orders not to do so. Senior Pompeo aide steps down amid impeachment inquiry A career diplomat who served as senior advisor to Secretary of State Mike Pompeo has decided to step down, two State Department officials told NBC News on Thursday, just as foreign service officers find themselves caught in the middle of a confrontation between the White House and Democratic lawmakers leading an impeachment inquiry. P. Michael McKinley, a seasoned foreign service officer who served as ambassador to Afghanistan, Colombia, Brazil and Peru, has told his colleagues he is resigning, the two officials said. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/all/senior-pompeo-aide-steps-down-amid-impeachment-inquiry-n1064866 Trump's parting comment about him will most likely be " I'vr heard bad things about him". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingthing Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 Trump's parting comment about him will most likely be " I'vr heard bad things about him".Loyalty is a one way street with 45 except for Ivanka of course. Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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