Compulsory Health insurance for 0-A visa applicants effective 31st October

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

So my initial 3 month visa issued in Vientiane several years ago was a “Non-O“ and I have several subsequent one year extensions so none of this required insurance applies to me right?

Correct.

[sfokevin]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

Correct.

Or at least not yet...

[Sheryl]

This is THE question as far as I am concerned. I asked this early in the thread, and I will assume that UbonJoe is searching out an answer. Three cheers for UJ!
 
@Sheryl, you are making some excellent points, but I suspect that we will simply have to await further details. FWIW, I see no possible answer other than the issuing embassy/consulate somehow marks the visa to state that the insurance requirement has been met; nothing else seems possible. However, I have been in the LOS a long time, so...
 
For me (and others), the question is for the immediate future. I have an O-A Long Stay, and as per the norm I did a 'border bounce" just before the 'Use By date" and got a second year. Then, again as per normal, I obtained a multiple re-Entry permit.
 
Sooooo, do I need to buy the relevant insurance, or does my last entry (July 2019), extended with a multiple re-entry permit, save me from the trouble? Put another way, do I need to purchase the appropriate insurance NOW/Oct 31st or wait until July 2020?
 
Any more thoughts? Anyone travelling in this situation is going to run into this sooner or later; is it sooner or later?
 
Cheers All
 

See what UJ says but I would think that entry on a re-entry permit would not be considered a new entry under the visa as it falls within the already granted period of stay.

What is unclear is the situation of those who have not yet gotten their final entry under an already issued O-A visa.

I find it odd that the order talks about time of entry rather than issuance if the visa. Point of issuance of the visa would be the logical (and indeed only feasible IMO) time for revirwing insurance documents.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[burner2014]

Let's not be so ignorance to not think this will continue with other visas and extensions.

 

No way this will not touch extensions as well soon, it's just the start. Would be ridiculous to let the retired person inside Thailand for the first year with an insurance, but then let him live here on extension for the second year without an insurance. They just don't want to have the super <deleted>storm yet. 

 

Also I don't believe that it will not go towards other long-term stay visa's like marriage. E.g. all people living right now on a retirement visa can also change to marriage visa if they are married. A lot of them are :)  then people will just change their visa and then they will adopt.

 

I am not 100% against a health insurance enforcement. BUT kick out this stupid Outpatient part... it makes 0.0 sense for 99% of the people here as most of us can pay the outpatient costs ourselves. Also no outpatient doctor starts working in Thailand without seeing already a credit card normally. 

Emergencies should be covered (Inpatient), but this outpatient requirement is just making money for the health insurance companies and hurts the visa holders double.

 

 

[UKresonant]

33 minutes ago, captpkapoor said:

The problem with Pacific Cross is that if actually need an insurance payout, they will check the stamps in your passport to verify if you have stayed at least 180 days in Thailand. If you're a frequent traveller like me, many years I spend less than 180 days in Thailand. 

That's exactly the response I had back when I said that my time in Thailand could vary from 150 days a year to a max of 273. They probably could not insure me. 

 

The other thing is that an insurance policy may not state the IP & OP as separate things, it may say "medical expenses", what would they make of that? ( context; not in continuous stay mode)

 

 

Edited October 9, 2019 by UKresonant

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

See what UJ says but I would think that entry on a re-entry permit would not be considered a new entry under the visa as it falls within the already granted period of stay.

I would agree with that, but would TI.

 

3 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What is unclear is the situation of those who have not yet gotten their final entry under an already issued O-A visa.

If their Visa is still valid, then do a border run before 31st Oct to get another 1 year entry.

After 31st Oct you'd need proof of Insurance.

 

6 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

I find it odd that the order talks about time of entry rather than issuance if the visa. Point of issuance of the visa would be the logical (and indeed only feasible IMO) time for revirwing insurance documents.

The O-A is valid for entry for 1 year and multiple entries until the expiry date, which grants another 1 year entry.

2. An alien who has been granted Non Imm Visa class O-A for multiple entry and enters the Kingdom for the second time onwards, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for the remaining coverage period of health for not exceeding a year.

 

That's why it refers to time of entry, rather than the issuance/validity of the Visa.

 

[Tanoshi]

12 minutes ago, burner2014 said:

No way this will not touch extensions as well soon, it's just the start. Would be ridiculous to let the retired person inside Thailand for the first year with an insurance, but then let him live here on extension for the second year without an insurance. 

That's why you have to deposit funds in a Thai bank for an extension.

[pontious]

It is not on the MFA website or the Thai embassy in London.

People applying now or in the next few days will be unaware of this and have little or no time to fix it. Not everyone is a TV member. It starts in 22 days time.!

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, pontious said:

It is not on the MFA website or the Thai embassy in London.

People applying now or in the next few days will be unaware of this and have little or no time to fix it. Not everyone is a TV member. It starts in 22 days time.!

As UJ stated earlier, TI appeared to have jumped the gun before the Embassies/Consulates have made an announcement.

[sqwakvfr]

I read the order and I believe this is  how it will work.  Thai Embassies/Consulate appear to be off the hook in terms of enforcing this new law.  In short the order states An Alien who enters the Kingdom with an OA will be allowed entry for a maximum of 1 year as long as he has insurance which complies with the law?  

 

In short the issuance of the OA will continue and it will up to the new OA Visa Holder to purchase the appropriate policy or risk possibility of being denied entry.  

 

In essence No Health Insurance, No Entry even with a valid OA Visa.  

[madmen]

2 hours ago, AussieBob18 said:

So at this stage it is mandatory for every entry under an O-A Visa to have 12 months medical insurance.  So if you arrive first time = compulsory. If you leave and re-enter = compulsory.

 

But for those that enter and stay, and are seeking an extension of their permission to stay, it is not (yet) mandatory.  What are the odds that it will soon be mandatory for a 12 months extension of an O-A Visa's permission to stay? 

Even better odds - the IOs will interpret that it is required for any 12 month extension - even if Immigration do not specifically make that decision.

 

 

Stop muddying the waters. Either back it up with a link or stay on topic

[kane666]

What if you are already covered under the Thai social security / hospital system from previously having worked in the country? Would you still need to get health insurance even though you are already covered as much as any Thai person?

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I read the order and I believe this is  how it will work.  Thai Embassies/Consulate appear to be off the hook in terms of enforcing this new law.

Embassies and official consulates will not be issuing a OA visa without proof of the insurance.

Immigration is the secondary enforcement when the visa is used for entry to the country.

[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, sqwakvfr said:

I read the order and I believe this is  how it will work.  Thai Embassies/Consulate appear to be off the hook in terms of enforcing this new law.  In short the order states An Alien who enters the Kingdom with an OA will be allowed entry for a maximum of 1 year as long as he has insurance which complies with the law?  

 

In short the issuance of the OA will continue and it will up to the new OA Visa Holder to purchase the appropriate policy or risk possibility of being denied entry.  

 

In essence No Health Insurance, No Entry even with a valid OA Visa.  

No, it would be irresponsible of any Embassy to issue the Non O-A Visa knowing entry would be denied without proof of Medical cover.

 

I believe like the O-X Visa the same conditions and documents required will shortly be attached to their webpages.

Qualifications.

Applicants must have Thai medical insurance during their stay in Thailand (per the approval of the Office of Insurance Commission) and medical claims for outpatient must not be less than 40,000 Baht, for inpatient must not be less than 400,000 Baht.

 

Required Documents.

Copy of evidence stating that applicants have insurance as per stipulated by the Office of Insurance Commission and health insurance of Thailand which has insurance money for outpatient not less than 40,000 Baht and for inpatient not less than 400,000 Baht. Please check < http://longstay.tgia.org> for more information regarding the insurance requirement.

 

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

Exactly the problem. Though many inpatient only policies do cover outpatient costs (to limits far above 40K) in certain circumstances.

 

Mine for example covers, up to USD 1 million, outpatient cancer care and dialysis as well as outpatient care follow up after a hospitalization. And day surgeries.

 

How an Io would interpet that -- from fairly complicated policy documents in English - I can't imagine.

IOs will only verify insurance from an approved insurerer or a certificate from foreign insurer. Yes, there will be fraud in foreign insurance certifcation. When it becomes a huge issue, they will address it just like all other problems in this country.

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

ability of IOs to read let alone comprehend  foreign policy documents. Let alone busy IOs at airports and border crossings with long lines of people to process.

For foreign policy you need to get a certificate that clearly shows in patient and out patient limits. I have a catastoric  insurance from United Health with a HSA account. I have been putting 3K every year and the HSA account has more than half a million BHT. Not sure If I can use money fom the HSA account to buy me a Thai insurance. I used my HSA master card in Bangkok Hospital and it was accepted without any  problems. 

Edited October 9, 2019 by onera1961

[onera1961]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

I find it odd that the order talks about time of entry rather than issuance if the visa. Point of issuance of the visa would be the logical (and indeed only feasible IMO) time for revirwing insurance documents.

The reason it says at the time of entry is to give power to IOs to deny entry to people they feel like irrespective of their visa type. Nothing can be done when an IO denies entry based on not having a health insurance. The police order is a simple ploy to empower IOS. Right now they cant deny entry to retirees like they do to TV, METV, SETV, EDs, etc. This will give them a weapon to deny entry randomly. Of course if one does not leave Thailand and spend their entire year in Thailand, they don't have to worry.

Edited October 9, 2019 by onera1961

[Lovethailandelite]

44 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I would agree with that, but would TI.

 

If their Visa is still valid, then do a border run before 31st Oct to get another 1 year entry.

After 31st Oct you'd need proof of Insurance.

 

The O-A is valid for entry for 1 year and multiple entries until the expiry date, which grants another 1 year entry.

2. An alien who has been granted Non Imm Visa class O-A for multiple entry and enters the Kingdom for the second time onwards, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for the remaining coverage period of health for not exceeding a year.

 

That's why it refers to time of entry, rather than the issuance/validity of the Visa.

 

This is just a thought.
Scenario 1: You obtain an O-A by showing your purchased Medical Insurance. Both valid for 1 year. You may not enter Thailand for lets say, I month. On the day you enter Thailand you are already down to 11 months Insurance so will not cover you for a 12 months stamp.

Scenario 2 As above but you leave Thailand for a reason of say 1 month after being here for 2 months. When you next enter,  your insurance is now only valid for say 8 months but the police order stipulates you need Insurance for up to 12 months of stay.
Are they about to only issue an entry stamp for no longer than the 'Use by date' of the O-A visa in order to keep the visa and insurance concurrent, effectively changing the way that visa can be used or you will only be stamped in for the remaining period of your insurance?
Just a thought as I don't see how you keep an insurance valid for 12 months on each entry stamp

Edited October 9, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[Tanoshi]

6 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

For foreign policy you need to get a certificate that clearly shows in patient and out patient limits. I have a catastoric  insurance from United Health with a HSA account. I have been putting 3K every year and the HSA account has more than half a million BHT. Not sure If I can use money fom the HSA account to buy me a Thai insurance. I used my HSA master card in Bangkok Hospital and it was accepted without any  problems. 

If your not applying for an O-A Visa, then any other private medical Insurance cover you have, regardless of the company, can still be used in Thailand.

 

This purely relates to those applying for, or entering the Country on a valid O-A Visa from 31st October 2019.

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Lovethailandelite said:

The Immigration website does state 'For those who buy health insurance from foreign companies Must have the sum insured not less than Thai health insurance as stipulated as well, effective from 31 October 2019.

Although the police order doesn't.

Yea.  Although the OP said foreign policies would be acceptable the police order does not (unless I'm just not seeing it). 

 

The police order requires insurance from a Thai company...does not say anything about a foreign policy being acceptable.   A few snapshots from the police order below.

 

 

 

[Pib]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

 

And it states in this order that foreign policies will be accepted if they provide at least that level of cover. Certainly any foreign policy will have more than that level of inpatient cover. the hitches are going to be:

 

Sheryl,

  Where does the "police order" say that?  The OP did but that can only be considered an opinion of the OP.  

 

Edit: And after seeing AssieBob18 post directly below regarding getting a special form completed by your insurance company to say it meets Thai immigration requirements, it probably going to be durn tough to get any foreign insurance company to complete such a form.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Pib

[AussieBob18]

If you have a foreign insurance policy you have to get the insurance company to provide a certificate of insurance:

http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

IMO the chances of getting an insurance company to complete this Thai document are zero.

Insurance companies will only issue their own certificate of insurance (legal reasons).

 

My read of the process is that it is not the embassy/consulate that requires the insurance when you apply for an O-A.  You do not have to buy 70K Baht insurance before getting the Visa approved. What is required is that on the day you arrive you must provide proof to the IO that you have the minimum required insurance for 12 months from that day, and from the approved providers, or a certificate of insurance document (see above).

 

 

[Pib]

3 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

If you have a foreign insurance policy you have to get the insurance company to provide a certificate of insurance:

http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

IMO the chances of getting an insurance company to complete this Thai document are zero.

Insurance companies will only issue their own certificate of insurance (legal reasons).

 

Well, maybe not zero but durn close.   

[Lovethailandelite]

3 minutes ago, Pib said:

Sheryl,

  Where does the "police order" say that?  The OP did but that can only be considered an opinion of the OP.  

I was the OP. The Police order doesn't state it. I copied what is posted on the Thai Immigration website in my first post

[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

This is just a thought.
Scenario 1: You obtain an O-A by showing your purchased Medical Insurance. Both valid for 1 year. You may not enter Thailand for lets say, I month. On the day you enter Thailand you are already down to 11 months Insurance so will not cover you for a 12 months stamp.

Scenario 2 As above but you leave Thailand for a reason of say 1 month after being here for 2 months. When you next enter,  your insurance is now only valid for say 8 months but the police order stipulates you need Insurance for up to 12 months of stay.
Are they about to only issue an entry stamp for no longer than the 'Use by date' of the O-A visa in order to keep the visa and insurance concurrent, effectively changing the way that visa can be used or you will only be stamped in for the remaining period of your insurance?
Just a thought as I don't see how you keep an insurance valid for 12 months on each entry stamp

 

According to the order;

Quote

2. An alien who has been granted Non Imm Visa class O-A for multiple entry and enters the Kingdom for the second time onwards, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for the remaining coverage period of health for not exceeding a year.

It doesn't alter the validity of the Visa, but it would alter the permission of stay granted, especially in your scenario number 2, unless you extended the Policy date.

[AussieBob18]

2 hours ago, Kelsall said:

From the OP.  "For those who buy health insurance from foreign companies Must have the sum insured not less than Thai health insurance as stipulated as well, "

So you can use your US (or other) insurance.

Not likely to be easy or simple to do that - they want this document to be completed and signed (by Directors) by the insurance company :  http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

 

[john terry1001]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

4 hours ago, Pib said:

So, are you saying when a person enters on a Retirement OA Visa and when it comes to apply for an extension of stay based on retirement because that OA Visa will expire then the medical insurance is not required?

Yes

That is what the order states.

I think section six can be read differently. 

 

It says anybody who ENTERS Thailand on a non-immigrant O-A Visa must buy health insurance that covers the length of stay in the KINGDOM - not for the length of validity of the visa. So, after entering with an O-A visa when getting an extension based on retirement you have continued your length of stay in the KINGDOM and could well be required to continue with the insurance until you physically exit Thailand, not when the O-A visa expires.

[Lovethailandelite]

2 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

According to the order;

It doesn't alter the validity of the Visa, but it would alter the permission of stay granted, especially in your scenario number 2, unless you extended the Policy date.

Yes I agree. Scenario 2 is the more likely

[Sheryl]

9 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

If you have a foreign insurance policy you have to get the insurance company to provide a certificate of insurance:

http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

IMO the chances of getting an insurance company to complete this Thai document are zero.

Insurance companies will only issue their own certificate of insurance (legal reasons).

 

My read of the process is that it is not the embassy/consulate that requires the insurance when you apply for an O-A.  You do not have to buy 70K Baht insurance before getting the Visa approved. What is required is that on the day you arrive you must provide proof to the IO that you have the minimum required insurance for 12 months from that day, and from the approved providers, or a certificate of insurance document (see above).

 

 

 

Even if willing to complete it I see 2 problems:

 

1 - Many policies have a single maximum, not separate ones for in and outpatient (especially those whose OPD cover is for certain things only).

 

2 - Insurance premiums are typically annual, policies are issued for 1 year. So to obtain it before coming and still have it valid for 12 months as of the day of entry will be difficult. In addition, for people who already have  ongoing insurance, the renewal date could be anytime during the year.

[Sheryl]

10 minutes ago, AussieBob18 said:

Not likely to be easy or simple to do that - they want this document to be completed and signed (by Directors) by the insurance company :  http://longstay.tgia.org/document/overseas_insurance_certificate.pdf

 

 

Interestingly the site says "Each applicant, including spouse and children, must have their own Health Insurance Certificate to present during visa application process. "

http://longstay.tgia.org/home/guidelineox

 

NOT at entry.

 

So again, conflicting information/guidance.