Catoni Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Surasak said: It possibly will happen. Its no if but when. Those of a certain age will be very unlikely to qualify for cover from an insurance company. So the question then will be, who will provide the cover? If not the insurance companies, will the government? Or will those unable to acquire cover be deported? I feel sure there are those who will be unable to afford the premiums and are trusting their family will help. Not such a good idea. The government should give very, very serious consideration to enforcing health insurance on long term expats. You can’t force older retired folk to pay huge extortionate amounts of money that they don’t have. “Can’t get blood out of a stone.” as they used to say. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Catoni Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 58 minutes ago, wisperone said: Aren't you concerned tho that under those circumstances, that you really aren't "insured"? Perhaps you would be better off with no insurance. Insurance is for things that you cannot cover for out of pocket, ie, serious, complicated, and lengthy. Now you are paying 72k for noncomplicated issues, which if those things were to occur, you could self pay with the 72k if you didn't bother with the insurance and just paid oop if and when they arrive. Either way, you aren't covered for the "serious" incidents should they happen. All in all, your in a dangerous position of not being covered for major illness in Thailand and the older one gets, the more likely of the occurrence. Sounds to me like those of us who are living pension check to pension check better hope we win the lottery, or a wealthy relative dies and leaves us a small fortune. A lot of us are not loaded with cash. We’re not all loaded with money like some here on TV. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, Barry343 said: I have a OA visa which is due in the next 3 week, I do not have health insurance cover. Does this mean if I go to Immigration prior to 31 October and have my visa extended for another 12 months it will be okay as that will give me 12 months to sort out Health cover for the future. An O-A visa itself cannot be "extended." You can only apply for a new O-A in your home country of residence. You can, however, apply to Thai Immigration for an extension of stay based on retirement, which is not an O-A visa... Ubon Joe is saying the new health insurance requirement will not apply to future retirement extensions of stay, only actual O-A visas. But whether that will turn out to be true or not remains to be seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gk10002000 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, TallGuyJohninBKK said: An O-A visa itself cannot be "extended." You can only apply for a new O-A in your home country of residence. You can, however, apply to Thai Immigration for an extension of stay based on retirement, which is not an O-A visa... Ubon Joe is saying the new health insurance requirement will not apply to future retirement extensions of stay, only actual O-A visas. But whether that will turn out to be true or not remains to be seen. So pay the insurance, get the OA visa. Then just cancel the insurance since you will not need it for the extension? Or will they consider the visa now not valid since you broke the terms of the visa which required insurance? Fines? Deportation? Extension refused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scot123 Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 7 minutes ago, Hansum man said: I had very little experience of Thailand until my first visit one year ago. Since then I have been following the news, this forum etc... to try and learn more about the country, it's societal structure... I always had the impression of Thailand as a care free land where anything within reason goes. After my first visit I thought to myself I will definitely end up living here asap. But it seems as if the citizens/tourists are increasingly being controlled by the government through new laws which seem to pop up daily. I am 32, work in professional capacity and can work online. However, I am starting to think there must be better places with less government influence on day to day life than Thailand. My Question(s): 1. Has Thailand always been this way? 2. If not, then when and why (in your opinion) did it start getting more strict? 3. Where else in the world/SE Asia would you recommend to someone like myself (i.e. are there any relatively untouched lands left?) Thank you Things changed in 2006 my first Thai Coup. I was teaching in Bkk care free and great life. Immigration rules changed and I felt attitudes towards us changed and they started replacing native English speaking teachers with Philippine teachers. Moved back with my family in 2010 retired so things were OK then my second coup and yes again attitudes changed towards expats. Roll on to 2018 and we just could not take the uncertainty of what's next (the whispers of compulsory health insurance scared me). 6 police cars turning up at our house to check on my visa status was the last straw and the its only 800,000baht from immigration was it. We left in 2019 back to live in the UK where we can plan a future. My advice. Pick a country with stability and good inferstructure or progressing and welcoming. I have friends from 2006 who left, did the rounds Philippines, Burma, Malaysia (some stayed there a while, Cambodia but most ended up and still are in Vietnam (I would also be there if not married). Thailand for us now will be for holidays only. 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, JDGRUEN said: It was announced previously that for Expats who cannot qualify for Insurance (too old or pre-existing conditions... Then these people would be required to have Extra money in a Thai Bank Account. How much? No announcement yet The orders and documents posted here thus far today seem to make absolutely no mention of that kind of an exception. The idea you're talking about was broached previously as an idea as part of the broader proposal, but I never saw any actual official commitment to actually allowing that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fishtank Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 hours ago, barryofthailand said: If you live overseas you need health insurance. Hospital care is not cheap in Thailand Rubbish. Just an excuse to sell poor quality insurance at a high price. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricTh Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) Thailand is looking less and less attractive with all these additional requirements. Moreover, the Baht just strengthened again today. Edited October 9, 2019 by EricTh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, billsmart said: I'm still confused... I entered Thailand on a Non O-A Long-stay Visa 20 years ago and have been living here ever since. I get an Extension of Stay every year, and use the Retirement criteria, but could use the Marriage (Thai Wife) criteria. If anyone can answer these questions about the necessity to have health insurance with any level of certainty, I would appreciate it: 1. Does this new law apply to someone (like me) already in Thailand and just applying for an Extension of Stay based on Retirement criteria? 2. Does this new law apply to someone (like me) already in Thailand and just applying for an Extension of Stay based on Marriage (Thai Wife) criteria? 3. I am 73 so cannot buy health insurance. Could I post a THB440K bond (THB400K for inpatient plus THB40K for outpatient) with the government or a health insurance company to satisfy the insurance requirements? Thanks... Ubon Joe says it should only apply to actual O-A visa holders and not people on retirement extensions of stay who previously had O-As... And yet, they've included the health insurance requirement in the section of requirements for retirement extensions. Right now, the new rule should have no effect on someone here on marriage based extensions of stay. I haven't seen anything in the government documents posted here today allowing for a bond or some other financial method as an alternative to an actual health insurance policy. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukKrueng Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, lupin said: I've got better coverage from home country.... but I agree all should have health insurance when getting older. I just dont agree with a policy that forces sub standard coverage from a tiny pool of providers on those that want to stay. Firstly - at the moment the insurance requirement is for new OA visa and not extensions, so if you are on an extension it doesn't apply to you. Secondly - according to the link to the immigration site you can buy "insurance policies online via longstay.tgia.org For those who buy health insurance from foreign companies Must have the sum insured not less than Thai health insurance as stipulated " So you are not limited to the Thai insurance companies - you can choose your own 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 5 hours ago, webfact said: Applicants are required to have 40,000 baht outpatient coverage and 400,000 baht inpatient coverage Here's an idea. Instead of these overpriced insurance policiies, could you just have an extra 440,000 baht in CASH above the current financial requirements? I guess not, seems that this is only designed just so the insurance companies can make a profit. Thank god I'm not affected for now, but if I had to be forced to buy these stupidly overpriced scam policies, this is what I'd do. Every year, I'd make sure that I get 400,000 Baht's worth of Treatment. Sick or not. I want 400k of mandatory healthcare. In doind so, it would drive up the costs for everyone else so this stupid idea collapses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joloit Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Insurance companies are the second biggest crooks in the world and they are owned by the biggest crooks in the world..........banks.This reminds me of the way these institutions work. A bank, for example, lends you an umbrella. But once it starts raining, they want it back!! Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, webfact said: According to the order, health insurance is not required for those applying for an extension of stay based on retirement and only applies to Non O-A visas. Not true. It says it right in the Police Order (1st sentence, page 2) and specifically the Criteria for granting the visa it's clear that this is for people ALREADY living in Thailand as well. Things like minimum income in Baht. Thai bank deposits with minimum acct balance for 2 months prior. Only an idiot will think this does not apply to extensions of stay. Edited October 9, 2019 by Time Traveller 1 4 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 35 minutes ago, gk10002000 said: So pay the insurance, get the OA visa. Then just cancel the insurance since you will not need it for the extension? Or will they consider the visa now not valid since you broke the terms of the visa which required insurance? Fines? Deportation? Extension refused? The police orders that Joe posted talk about Immigration checking insurance status for O-A visa holders each time they enter the country, and requiring proof of insurance to cover the entirety of their permitted to stay period. And that would apply for each entry under the original O-A visa.... As for the Thai insurance policies that are being offered re O-As, I don't know if you can cancel them once issued... Or, maybe you can cancel them, AFTER you've paid the premium in full... And then of course, without any valid policy, you'd be denied any future entries under the O-A. Whether the new insurance requirement is going to be extended to retirement extensions of stay is a whole other matter. Ubon Joe says it will NOT be applied to retirement extensions. But they've included the insurance language in the list of requirements for retirement extensions pertaining to people with O-A visas. Edited October 9, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliss Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 hours ago, helloagain said: Phone up immagration Answers , @ the discretion of the immi officer on duty that day . 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just bob Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 2 hours ago, emptypockets said: I really wish people would follow the links in the articles posted. The cost of the insurance to meet the requirements is about 20,000 baht a year. Less than 400 baht a week. For someone contemplating spending 12 months in Thailand it is the proverbial drop in the ocean. That is with major insurers like AXA and Pacific Cross. <deleted>. For 65 to 70 age group AXA is 86,700 annual. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terryofcrete Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) I assume that if I’m on a tourist waiver visa under 30 days my personal travel insurance and health insurance in my home country, which covers €60K will suffice ? I will email the Irish Thai consulate anyway . I just go in and out under 30 days 4/5 different months a year . Suits me cos I come home and attend to my medical needs in Ireland and visit family etc. I think it’s the best of both worlds and surprisingly cheap to fly return from Dublin. My doctor says it’s too much travelling in a year for an elder lemon . I love it . Edited October 9, 2019 by terryofcrete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Time Traveller said: I disagree. If you look at the Order and specifically the Criteria for granting the visa it's clear that this is for people ALREADY living in Thailand as well. Things like minimum income in Baht. Thai bank deposits with minimum acct balance for 2 months prior. Only an idiot will think this does not apply to extensions of stay. Aye.... there's the rub.... Ubon Joe says the health insurance requirement will not apply to retirement extensions of stay. But as you point out, the new Police Order adds a section on the health insurance requirement for people who've received O-A visas to the broader list of requirements for people applying for retirement extensions. If Immigration did not mean or intend the health insurance requirement language to apply to people on retirement extensions of stay who've previously received O-A visas, then why include that language in the list of requirements for retirement extensions. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 1 hour ago, DUNROAMIN said: Will not affect you, only for new applications from their home country. Will not affect you, only for new applications from their home country. Wrong. Read the 2nd page of the Police Order. (the very first sentence) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elliss Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, kellyjik39 said: I dont see mention of people over 75 who cant buy insurance. What am I missing? Over 75 , not welcome in the kingdom anymore . Go home .. I know the feeling , insecure in old age .. Edited October 9, 2019 by elliss 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time Traveller Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Aye.... there's the rub.... Ubon Joe says the health insurance requirement will not apply to retirement extensions of stay. But as you point out, the new Police Order adds a section on the health insurance requirement for people who've received O-A visas to the broader list of requirements for people applying for retirement extensions. If Immigration did not mean or intend the health insurance requirement language to apply to people on retirement extensions of stay who've previously received O-A visas, then why include that language in the list of requirements for retirement extensions. Who da funk is Ubon Joe ?.....Read the Police Order It says it in plain English, Criteria for Extension of Stay Edited October 9, 2019 by Time Traveller 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 33 minutes ago, LukKrueng said: So you are not limited to the Thai insurance companies - you can choose your own Read the Guidelines for O-A document on the website you linked to... The home country insurance policy is ONLY going to be allowed for the first year, not thereafter. Quote First year, all applicants can buy health insurance from insurance companies in their owned countries or authorized insurance company in Thailand. When the applicants want to renew the visa, the applicants must buy insurance from authorized insurance companies in Thailand only. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsve Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 hours ago, brokenbone said: A self insurance option? Another 400,000 in the bank? 4 hours ago, brokenbone said: outruled, no proffit innit I am not sure of that. When they start to talk about insurance IO said that 400 000 in bank couuld be an opportunity to those that could not get insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinot Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 (edited) I wrote about the 400/40 here. I think it's a reasonable health insurance policy and you should buy one. It's relatively cheap! the 400/40 Plan Edited October 9, 2019 by Pinot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 4 minutes ago, terryofcrete said: I assume that if I’m on a tourist waiver visa under 30 days my personal travel insurance and health insurance in my home country, which covers €60K will suffice ? I will email the Irish Thai consulate anyway . I just go in and out under 30 days 4/5 different months a year . Suits me cos I come home and attend to my medical needs in Ireland and visit family etc. I think it’s the best of both worlds and surprisingly cheap to fly return from Dublin. My doctor says it’s too much travelling in a year for an elder lemon . I love it . For now, this has nothing to do with either visa exempt entries or tourist visa entries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Just now, Parsve said: I am not sure of that. When they start to talk about insurance IO said that 400 000 in bank couuld be an opportunity to those that could not get insurance. They talked about that idea originally, yes. But as of right now, there doesn't appear to be any language in the final police orders they've issued allowing that. Talking about something as a possibility is one thing. Making it part of the final requirements is something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Russell17au Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 3 minutes ago, Time Traveller said: I disagree. If you look at the Order and specifically the Criteria for granting the visa it's clear that this is for people ALREADY living in Thailand as well. Things like minimum income in Baht. Thai bank deposits with minimum acct balance for 2 months prior. Only an idiot will think this does not apply to extensions of stay. It is quite easy to see that you are unable to read because if you could read instead of calling everybody idiots you would be able to read the Order which clearly states that the health insurance is only for the O-A visa applications and clause #6 in the Criteria which is a new clause clearly states that the health insurance is only for O-A visas. Clauses # 1 to 4 have always been in the Criteria and Clause #5 has always been the one that has listed the financials but it was updated when the new financials were approved for the O visa and retirement extension. Clause #7 is the old Clause #6. So who is the idiot? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P100 Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Why there is no such obligation for Thai nationals? How about those who keep travelling abroad and have a worldwide covering serious health insurance not limited to 40/400K Baht?? Still need to buy the rubbish Thai insurance too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post fforest1 Posted October 9, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted October 9, 2019 For a country that gives expats absolutely nothing.....They have no rights at all to make visas harder.... 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Tracy Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 It is deemed expedient for the police to amend these regulations....? Wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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