Thailand to demand proof of health insurance for 'risky' long-term visitors

[Bruce404]

Retirees from many countries already have enough healthcare insurance coverage, either from their own sufficient assets to pay their medical bills, or by entitlements from prior employment.  For example, retirees from the U.S. Department of State and U.S. military and Uniformed Services retirees have lifetime healthcare coverage that reimburses no matter where in the world they reside.

 

I agree with Thailand trying to avoid retirees failing to pay for medical care humanely rendered to them in the country.  But a more efficient way to achieve this would be for medical providers and hospitals to obtain upon care the patient's passport number and TM.6 number.  If legitimate medical bills remain unpaid beyond a certain time, providers can submit copies of the bills to Immigration, attest to their non-payment by the patient or his/her insurer, and Immigration can put a hold on renewal of the retiree's permission to stay until paid up, or the bill disputed and fairly arbitrated with due process to all parties.

 

I sympathize with many over-50 expatriate retirees whose pensions or assets may not be able to cover their healthcare costs, likely rising astronomically as they age.  But it would be unfair for Thailand's private physicians and hospitals to be subsidizing them.

   

Another option, perhaps far-fetched, would be for Thailand to allow those on non-immigrant, long-term retirement visas to buy into a version of the so-called "30-baht" universal national healthcare system (NHSO*) for care ONLY at public hospitals and clinics, at a price to be determined and with reasonable co-pays at the time of service, but likely to cost much less than Thai insurers charge for providing coverage for private medical-care providers.  

 

* https://www.nhso.go.th/eng/FrontEnd/index.aspx 

[Odysseus123]

"All of your money is mine but none of my money is yours.."

 

The classic Thai mantra.....never fails..

[Bangkok Barry]

All of the comments I've read above on most of the pages all refer to the effect on western expats. It will have far greater impact on the Thai construction industry, as there will be no workers from neighbouring countries to build their roads, hi-speed rail, mass transit schemes in Bangkok and elsewhere, houses, condos, factories. All rely on workers from Cambodia, Myanmar and Vietnam. None of those would be able to afford the insurance, and it is damn certain the cost-cutting employers would only pay minimum insurance if any. And those workers are the ones most 'at risk' in their dangerous occupation.

 

Unless this would only apply to white people from outside SE Asia. If not, it isn't going to fly because - surprise surprise - it hasn't been thought through. the same as every other hair-brained scheme they come up with.

[khunbillmex]

What constitutes Proof of Cover when applying for the Non O-A visa? Showing the actual full policy documents? or maybe just an Insurance plan plastic member card ?  In either case one can foresee opportunities to 'game' the system rather easily.

 

The best suggestion to insure universal cover is to add a mandatory fee on air tickets which should cover most visitors (I think very few arrive by sea or road) A major advantage of such a fee would be that it would cover all travelers in the Kingdom rather than just Non O-A visa holders.    40,000,000 visitors/yr x say 250 baht/tkt = 10,000,000,000 baht/yr - if, of course, Thailand reaches its 40,000,000 annual visitors target. A health cover fee may even attack rather than deter visitors to Thailand by offering Peace of Mind.

[Sheryl]

So is this now mandatory for people renewing extensions

No

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[RubbaJohnny]

14 minutes ago, Bruce404 said:

Retirees from many countries already have enough healthcare insurance coverage, either from their own sufficient assets to pay their medical bills, or by entitlements from prior employment.  For example, retirees from the U.S. Department of State and U.S. military and Uniformed Services retirees have lifetime healthcare coverage that reimburses no matter where in the world they reside.

 

I agree with Thailand trying to avoid retirees failing to pay for medical care humanely rendered to them in the country.  But a more efficient way to achieve this would be for medical providers and hospitals to obtain upon care the patient's passport number and TM.6 number.  If legitimate medical bills remain unpaid beyond a certain time, providers can submit copies of the bills to Immigration, attest to their non-payment by the patient or his/her insurer, and Immigration can put a hold on renewal of the retiree's permission to stay until paid up, or the bill disputed and fairly arbitrated with due process to all parties.

 

I sympathize with many over-50 expatriate retirees whose pensions or assets may not be able to cover their healthcare costs, likely rising astronomically as they age.  But it would be unfair for Thailand's private physicians and hospitals to be subsidizing them.

   

Another option, perhaps far-fetched, would be for Thailand to allow those on non-immigrant, long-term retirement visas to buy into a version of the so-called "30-baht" universal national healthcare system (NHSO*) for care ONLY at public hospitals and clinics, at a price to be determined and with reasonable co-pays at the time of service, but likely to cost much less than Thai insurers charge for providing coverage for private medical-care providers.  

 

* https://www.nhso.go.th/eng/FrontEnd/index.aspx 

 That is the best and most equitable solution, of course a non runner  it is not the most lucrative for the insurance industry and 'friends".

[friend of siam]

6 hours ago, zyphodb said:

I'd say what else is in play is someone/s very high up have decided that they dont want a retired ex-pat population here anymore and are looking at any way to make this happen without coming right out and saying it. 

  That's why theres the ridiculous 40,000 Bhts outpatiants clause in it, to push up the premiums to hights which most people will refuse to pay. Also the TM30 nonsense, all part of the plan... ???? 

tell me honest...which country needs an old age cheap charly retirement population ????

yes rich is good but here most scrap by on the cheap...otherwise they would stay in europe us or nz ...los focus on chinese shoppers and is  not so amused anymore about the red light customer s 80+ no brain nitnoi cash ..once they been third world ok.. but now they move hiso as a society

[kylep]

10 hours ago, Soikhaonoiken said:

Some long stay ex pats will have difficulty in obtaining medical insurance or if they can it will be at a very high price... 

Then they shouldn't come here and burden this good Thai government with unpaid medical bills. It's mindboggling that none of the other posters see the shamelessness of imposing the cost of their health issues upon the Kingdom's government. They fattened themselves to the extreme with obesity-causing foods back home in their countries, drank themselves drunk with cirrhosis-inducing substances and now they complain about insurance being made mandatory. Shameless to the very core.

[reargunnerph3]

4 hours ago, Naamblar2014 said:

Was it a complex procedure or just really good plaster of Paris?

Steel plate, 7 screws, 1 night in hospital and good looking nurses, unfortunately not 1 of the screws were the ones I was after. Did a very good job. 

[Teee]

7 hours ago, ukrules said:

I would be quite happy to see changes in the rules to ensure that Thais pay for any treatment they receive in the UK and don't get free treatment like pretty much everyone else in the world.

 

I know they pay nothing right now.

 

I wonder how much free treatment Thais get over in Europe per year and how that figure compares to this paltry sum?

To enable a person from outside EU to have a long term Visa for UK...they have to first have a TB test...then if cleared a £2000 medical payment is required on Visa Application. This is to cover any medical expenses if required during stay in UK.

The thais are just putting in place what happens anywhere else in the world if you have long term Visa.

Why moan about this.

If you dont or cant afford the Insurance then why should the Thai Govt pay for your ills.

Simple really.

[WaveHunter]

22 minutes ago, friend of siam said:

tell me honest...which country needs an old age cheap charly retirement population ????

yes rich is good but here most scrap by on the cheap...otherwise they would stay in europe us or nz 

I don't think that is a very fair assessment of the typical Expat retiree here in the Kingdom; referring to them as "Cheap Charlies".  There's nothing wrong with a retiree seeking a place to retire, where their hard-earned nest egg will go further, and where they can have a higher quality of life than they could in their home country. 

 

True, there are some here on the cheap who could become a burden to the State, but I think there far, far more, with substantial finances to see them through their retirement, and many who have purchased property, and contribute heavily as a group to the national GDP. 

 

It is the latter group that are the unfair targets of these regulations which are often poorly thought out and unnecessarily harsh.  The true "Cheap Charlies" won't even be affected, since they will just "fly below the radar", staying here illegally or gaming the system.

 

[Vacuum]

5 hours ago, malibukid said:

the Chinese should take swimming lessons and motor bike course before visiting Thailand

Why? Let them spread the word that Thai waters and roads are deadly, that should make the rest of them choose another country for their holidays.

[friend of siam]

6 hours ago, LNKDES1 said:

I was wondering the same thing as I am contemplating going from a retirement extension to a marriage visa. 

if u on marriage you can be insured with ur wifes insurance

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, dave s said:

500,000,000/80,000=6,250. By the figures in the article, on average, every single expat in Thailand stiffs a hospital for over 6,000 baht every single year. Every single expat, not one of whom they can collect from, despite TM28, TM30, TM6, multiple TM47 reports, ad nauseum. And no reporter at this press shindig waved their hand and said, "Yoooo-ooo, Minister Pitutecha, isn't this absolute proof that all the mindless immigration paperwork is useless and should be abolished?"

The article says "foreigners over 50", nothing about expats with O-A Visas. The number 80000 is very low compared to every foreigner in Thailand over 50 years old. 

[khunPer]

7 hours ago, steve2112 said:

9 hours ago, ezzra said:

i have been here for 35 years and i don't know any long term staying foreigners  that has been treated in a hospital and got away without paying...

ditto, i didn't know it was even possible

Maybe they didn't get away, nor survived...????

[Bruce404]

2 hours ago, WaveHunter said:

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In cases of life-threatening conditions, USA Medicare will often cover treatment costs within Thailand, without the need to even return home.  These new Thai regulations don't seem to take this factor into account.

[ ... content truncated ... ]

WaveHunter is misinformed on the above factoid regarding Medicare coverage outside the USA or its territorial waters or in Canada between Alaska and Washington State.  See: https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/travel 

[MartinL]

Not read the whole 19 pages so maybe this is already covered.

 

Some here will be covered for treatment at Thai public (government) hospitals through my wife's eligibility under the Teachers, Civil Service etc. family medical cover. I wonder whether we'll still be covered for all treatment by this or, if increased prices for foreigners are applied, whether there'll be a limit on coverage up to (e.g.) what would be paid for a Thai patient. Or even no cover at all.

 

 

 

 

[zhorik]

Thais in Britain unless they  Have permanent residence are charged for hospital treatment. Of curse collecting it may be a problem.

Does this stricture cover elite visa holders. also if you stay 11 months do you still need it. do you need a medical to prove you are not risky. why one year as illness canstrike in a month especially if  you eat food that is not hygienically prepared. 

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, WaveHunter said:

I don't think that is a very fair assessment of the typical Expat retiree; referring to them as "Cheap Charlies".  There's nothing wrong with a retiree seeking a place to retire, where their hard-earned nest egg will go further, and where they can have a higher quality of life than they could in a Western country. 

 

True, there are some here on the cheap who could become a burden to the State, but I think there far, far more, with substantial finances to see them through their retirement, and many who have purchased property, and contribute heavily as a group to the national GDP.  THEY are the ones that are a target of these regulations.  The "Cheap Charlies" just fly below the radar, staying here illegally or gaming the system.

I actually think it is a fair assessment by siam.

Unfortunately, many over 60's to 70's are in fact penny pinchers with very limited "nest eggs".

Always thinking about money and complaining how expensive everthing is.

[bkk6060]

5 minutes ago, Bruce404 said:

WaveHunter is misinformed on the above factoid regarding Medicare coverage outside the USA or its territorial waters or in Canada between Alaska and Washington State.  See: https://www.medicare.gov/coverage/travel 

You are right and it is very uneducated to think Medicare will cover you here.

It does not!

[MartinKal]

11 hours ago, tjo o tjim said:

The obsession with peanuts is slightly amusing. It is equivalent to 6,000B per non-imm visa applicant, and likely fewer than 750 meaningful hospital bills. But hey...

It is a small problem and small sums of money, but very big inconvenience for residents and government staff.

It is a symbol of the unwelcome ex-pats receive.

Better to make the expat population feel wrlcome, every one is an ambassador. And better to put government staff on much higher priority work. For example, deal with the pollution that hits the northern thai economy so hard for three months of the year and shortens citizens' lives by four years on average.

[Max69xl]

9 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

This demand for health insurance goes hand in hand with the government demanding hospitals charge expats multiples of what they charge Thais for the same mediocre procedure...

 

Way to go Thailand!  ????????

Many countries in Europe requires  a travel insurance for invited thai people. No insurance, no visa. ~38% of tourists from the UK have no insurance what so ever. 

[WaveHunter]

3 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I actually think it is a fair assessment by siam.

Unfortunately, many over 60's to 70's are in fact penny pinchers with very limited "nest eggs".

Always thinking about money and complaining how expensive everthing is.

I suppose that could be true but of the expats I personally know, most would not be described as "penny pinchers" with limited resources.  At any rate, I just dont think it's fair to make such generalizations.

[Thaidream]

23 minutes ago, Teee said:

To enable a person from outside EU to have a long term Visa for UK...they have to first have a TB test...then if cleared a £2000 medical payment is required on Visa Application. This is to cover any medical expenses if required during stay in UK.

The thais are just putting in place what happens anywhere else in the world if you have long term Visa.

Why moan about this.

If you dont or cant afford the Insurance then why should the Thai Govt pay for your ills.

Simple really.

I/m not asking the Thai Government or anyone in Thailand to cover anything for me. I am asking for reciprocity.  Either develop an insurance policy that applies to all foreigners in Thailand up to 100 years old and make it affordable for all. 

 

When my Thai wife emigrates to the US, she is eligible for Medicare or Medicaid. She can opurchase land and access all social services. In Thailand- I get only a stamp in a passport that allows another year- nothing else.

 

  No turn downs for pre-existing coverage-  no turn downs for age.  No  pre-coverage medical needed.  Universal coverage- everyone from Age 1 to age 100 gets the insurance and therefore  everyone has universal coverage at a fair price.

 

It is the Health Minstry by way of the Thai Social Security System that needs to develop such a policy and pricing based upon a large pool of people .  Private insurance has only one goal and that is to make as much money as possible off the misery of someone who is insured and then look for loopholes not to pay.

 

Provide fair and reasonable coverage at a fair price and include everyone in the coverage and no one will have any complaint.  The currently allowed coverages under the long stay website provide little coverage- high premiums and solve nothing, except to make windfall profits for the insurance company and it board of directors.

[NoshowJones]

9 hours ago, Puchaiyank said:

This demand for health insurance goes hand in hand with the government demanding hospitals charge expats multiples of what they charge Thais for the same mediocre procedure...

 

Way to go Thailand!  ????????

If a UK national marries a Thai girl and then brings her back with him to live in the UK. Who pays any medical bills she will have? I think we all know the answer to that, and I bet the Thai authorities will not want to know.

[Teee]

4 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

I actually think it is a fair assessment by siam.

Unfortunately, many over 60's to 70's are in fact penny pinchers with very limited "nest eggs".

Always thinking about money and complaining how expensive everthing is.

Yes and most....yes most expats are like everyone else 'counting' money...as my fillipino gf likes to say to me 'stop counting'.

All asians think farang has trees that grow money.

Fact...Thailand with the high bht and everyones currency suffering big downturns...the Thai Govt has worked out if you fall ill the medical expenses you incur would not be covered by your money in your pocket anymore.

Therefore introducing a Medical Insurance is only right.

If you cant afford to live a nice comfortable life that is same or better than in your home country in Thailand maybe time to go home and live out the remaining years of your life at home with your families.

[NoshowJones]

7 hours ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I have not seen the numbers.. BUT if they are low, why would the Gov. get so involved and mandate med ins. Doesn't make sense to me...

The government will do what is best for their own personal income streams.

[WaveHunter]

28 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You are right and it is very uneducated to think Medicare will cover you here.

It does not!

Just to set the record straight, I did not say that Medicare will cover your everyday medical needs or non-emergency care while outside of the United States.

 

However, Medicare WILL in fact provide coverage overseas for emergency and urgent care (i.e.: a life threatening illness or accident requiring immediate medical attention).  That is a fact that you can corroborate by contacting Medicare or your private supplemental provider.

 

 

 

 

 

[Vacuum]

4 hours ago, theoldgit said:

And what about your condo, car, motorbike, Thai wife and two children from her first marriage.

At 77 years of age to you really want that upheaval? 

He said that he can't get an insurance because of his age. So no insurance, no visa.  Can't understand why he doesn't have retirement extension instead of a non O-A visa though.

[wwest5829]

15 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

You are right and it is very uneducated to think Medicare will cover you here.

It does not!

With the addendum that your Medigap Policy (if you have one) will cover for overseas care up to the policy limit.