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elite visa versus health insurance


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On 10/10/2019 at 2:37 PM, abrahamzvi said:

Although the Elite Visa for 5 years, or even 20 years may be the right venue for some, it is stupid to compare this to Health Insurance. Health Insurance covers  medical costs and even if one enjoys the benefits of an Elite Visa, such costs may still be incurred.

 

However the health insurance allowed by Immigration (1) cannot be obtained by many -- arguably most -- retirees due to age and/or pre-existing conditions  (as of now they will not allow  foreign policies to be used)  and (2) in most cases is such a low level of cover that it will not cover significant medical costs. This is the issue; the requirement is very badly designed and creates maximum cost while failing to provide adequate protection.

 

In my cost estimates around both O-A and Elite, on behalf of an 88 year old relative who may need to join me here, for both I include the cost of real health insurance. But for O-A I have to  also include huge cost for a useless overpriced local  insurance as well. TE comes out way cheaper and that is getting it for only 5 years (due to her age). If I were to do it for myself (which I would do only if insurance requirement is later extended to in country extensions under an O visa) then TE comes out even further ahead.

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4 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

In my cost estimates around both O-A and Elite, on behalf of an 88 year old relative who may need to join me here, for both I include the cost of real health insurance. But for O-A I have to  also include huge cost for a useless overpriced local  insurance as well. TE comes out way cheaper and that is getting it for only 5 years (due to her age). If I were to do it for myself (which I would do only if insurance requirement is later extended to in country extensions under an O visa) then TE comes out even further ahead.

Agree it is a significant saving if taking one of the stripped down 20 yr plans where the extra services are not required. Half the price year on year than the cheapest 5 year plan at 50k / year

 

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12 minutes ago, lupin said:

I'm almost positive that would take more than a police order since the PE visas are a subcategory of the tourist visa class.... the regulations already exist for NON O, that's why a police order was all that was needed for the OA announcement since the OA is a subcat or the NON O

 

Actually it took a special Cabinet Resolution , which was done last April.

 As far as I know - haven't been able to find a translation  of the order itself - the Cabinet Resolution refers only to retirement. Barring a revision to the Immigration Law itself it would then need another Cabinet Resolution to make it possible to start requiring it of tourists.

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@Sheryl Interesting side note... do we think a multi tiered pricing structure requiring aliens to pay much higher prices when visiting government hospitals, and introduced at the same time as these insurance requirements, is just a monumental coincidence?

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[mention=14639]Sheryl[/mention] Interesting side note... do we think a multi tiered pricing structure requiring aliens to pay much higher prices when visiting government hospitals, and introduced at the same time as these insurance requirements, is just a monumental coincidence?
Yes. Totally unrelated.

And what you refer to is a MoPH price listing which even at the highest tier is well below what both Thais and foreigners currently pay at government hospitals and have for years. It would actually be a price drop if this were to be applied but it won't be.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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23 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Yes. Totally unrelated.

And what you refer to is a MoPH price listing which even at the highest tier is well below what both Thais and foreigners currently pay at government hospitals and have for years. It would actually be a price drop if this were to be applied but it won't be.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I am completely lost here... the multi teired pricing, is for government hospitals yes? , I thought this was already being applied (at least in Phucket it is) where foreigners at certain visa classes/levels will pay more than thais... you're saying this is in fact a price drop from what foreigners usually pay at those same government hosptials?

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3 minutes ago, lupin said:

I am completely lost here... the multi teired pricing, is for government hospitals yes? , I thought this was already being applied (at least in Phucket it is) where foreigners at certain visa classes/levels will pay more than thais... you're saying this is in fact a price drop from what foreigners usually pay at those same government hosptials?

 

4 minutes ago, lupin said:

Yes. Totally unrelated.

And what you refer to is a MoPH price listing which even at the highest tier is well below what both Thais and foreigners currently pay at government hospitals and have for years. It would actually be a price drop if this were to be applied but it won't be.

or is it that the rates being charged were always higher and that this acts as a "cap" on charges with the highest rate still lower than what they previously "could" have charged?

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I am completely lost here... the multi teired pricing, is for government hospitals yes? , I thought this was already being applied (at least in Phucket it is) where foreigners at certain visa classes/levels will pay more than thais... you're saying this is in fact a price drop from what foreigners usually pay at those same government hosptials?

Some government hospitals have had two tier pricing for some time now. Mainly ones in areas with many foreigners as not worth the trouble to srt up otherwise.

 

What this poster was referring to is a recent updating by the MoPH of a listing of supposed maximum prices for different procedures in a government hospital. This update contains for the first time different tiers of pricing according to nationslity.

 

However hospitals pay no attention to the MoPH price lists and never have as the prices are set unrealistically low. The prices for foreigners in that booklet are not only lower than what foreigners pay now but also lower than what Thais are charged now.

 

Hence it is unlikely to have the any effect on anything.

 

These listings go straight in the bin or on the shelf and gather dust and the hospitals carry on as usual.

 

 

 

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, lupin said:

 

or is it that the rates being charged were always higher and that this acts as a "cap" on charges with the highest rate still lower than what they previously "could" have charged?

 

No. See above.

 

It acts as nothing. It is a non-issue.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking at the https://www.thailandelite.com/at-your-service/card/elite-superiority-extension-membership?locate=en this seems to indicate a 20 year TE VISA for 1 million baht. That works out to 50,000 baht per year. Is this a correct assessment? If this is true, this could a great option for those who can no longer qualify for health insurance. 

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17 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes it is.

Then this is the way to go... You get a near hassle free, except 90 day reporting, VISA. Can keep your own health insurance, or not have any at all (self insure) and not have to park money in the bank, worry about annual renewals and any future changes to the Non-O and not have to worry about leaving and coming back. Seems worth it. Am I missing any downsides to this?

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1 minute ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Then this is the way to go... You get a near hassle free, except 90 day reporting, VISA. Can keep your own health insurance, or not have any at all (self insure) and not have to park money in the bank, worry about annual renewals and any future changes to the Non-O and not have to worry about leaving and coming back. Seems worth it. Am I missing any downsides to this?

Yes, the financial part. Do the math, let's say 5 year Elite visa för 500k. Compare that to 5x 1900 baht for annual extensions. You have to do almost exactly same at the immigration office as if you have an O Visa with extensions, except the extension part, which in May took me less than 4 minutes to do. Elite visas are for people who don't meet the requirements for a long term visa/extension, or have loads of money to throw away. 

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16 minutes ago, Max69xl said:

Yes, the financial part. Do the math, let's say 5 year Elite visa för 500k. Compare that to 5x 1900 baht for annual extensions. You have to do almost exactly same at the immigration office as if you have an O Visa with extensions, except the extension part, which in May took me less than 4 minutes to do. Elite visas are for people who don't meet the requirements for a long term visa/extension, or have loads of money to throw away. 

That is a fair point. Don't throw your money away willy nilly. Are you saying that even with the Elite VISA you still have to go in for annual renewals? For me... I have looked at this issue for several years now coming in and out on tourist VISA's... as my current work takes me in and out of the kingdom frequently. But, when I fully pull the plug and slow down on work, it will be clear enough for me and for my peace of mind, body and soul, instead of parking the 800,000 in a nearly non existent interest bearing account that I won't be able to use the entire time I am retire here, I might as well just give them the money and for 20 years I have no worries, No worries about any current or future changes to all the VISA issues. The 20 year TE VISA works out to 4,166 baht per month. I would pay 5 times that amount in taxation costs living back in my home country... I am still getting a deal in Thailand.

Edited by Tounge Thaied
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  • 2 months later...
On 10/16/2019 at 1:29 PM, lupin said:

I'm almost positive that would take more than a police order since the PE visas are a subcategory of the tourist visa class.... the regulations already exist for NON O, that's why a police order was all that was needed for the OA announcement since the OA is a subcat or the NON O

I like the "almost positive" thing... You starting thinking Thais.

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25 minutes ago, stevecarteraus said:

The 20 year is actually 4 x 5 year back to back visas,

So, what if they asked you to show one of those stupid Thai insurance policies at 5 years renewal time? This is the reason why I wouldn't go for a 20years/1MB plan. Actually, considering the OA scam, I don't see any reason why they couldn't ask TE holders to show yearly policies altogether.

I thinking more and more, like AdamTheFarang, that our long stay days in LOS (whatever the S stands for) are counted. So I do my homework on Malaysia's immigration rules (90 days without visa and M2H).

God bless you.

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2 hours ago, stevecarteraus said:

The elite visa suits people that have the cash and don't want any future hassles. I am currently on the 5 year visa, got it when baht was a touch lower, paid it on a rewards credit card which gave me half an economy round trip to oz. I come to Thai 6 times a year, they meet me at the gate, take me through immigration and provide transport to my hotel. When I leave same in reverse and put me in the first class lounge while I wait for flight.

They say they assist with 90 day report, banking and drivers licence etc but I have not needed.

The 20 year is actually 4 x 5 year back to back visas, there is no annual renewal. When my current visa expires in 2 years I will decide which way I will go, I place a bigger value on lack of hassle than many people and will probably take on the 20 year visa. I really find no joy in ongoing dealing with bureaucracy as many people seem to do, then they get to complain about it.

In the end it is as they say up to you. 

Wrong question on my part regarding the annual renewal. What I want to know is, does the Elite Visa still require you to report to an immigration office annually? I have heard that you get a 60 day window of time at the end of your annual stamp to report to immigration. The reason I ask, is I travel in and out of the Kingdom often, sometimes for extended periods, and if I should not be here during my 60 day window, then when I return, theoretically, my TE Visa would not be in effect? If you (or anyone else reading this knows) could clarify the actual annual reporting requirements beyond the 90 day requirement... Thank you in advance. 

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1 hour ago, Momofarang said:

So, what if they asked you to show one of those stupid Thai insurance policies at 5 years renewal time? This is the reason why I wouldn't go for a 20years/1MB plan. Actually, considering the OA scam, I don't see any reason why they couldn't ask TE holders to show yearly policies altogether.

I thinking more and more, like AdamTheFarang, that our long stay days in LOS (whatever the S stands for) are counted. So I do my homework on Malaysia's immigration rules (90 days without visa and M2H).

God bless you.

However, using your logic here, which I totally agree with your sentiment to be aware and cautious, you could also find yourself seeing future similar changes in Malaysia as well. Immigration is an ever evolving issue in most countries these days. The idea here is "retirement" planning. A final resting place where you go all in in your advanced years. 

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On 10/16/2019 at 4:18 AM, Caldera said:

No. But whenever you arrive on an elite visa, you get stamped in for one year.

 

As with the 1-year permission to stay based on having a Non-OA visa, they COULD enforce the same health insurance requirement when stamping in an elite visa holder in the future - all it takes is another police order. That was my point, there's no guarantee that this won't happen eventually.

Do you know how this one year stamping in works? I understand the stamping in if you are traveling in and out of the Kingdom. For example, if you never leave the Kingdom, are you required to report annually to receive this stamp? What I am trying to find out is, are the TE holders required, like the Non-Immigrant O holders, to report to an immigration office annually? And if they are required, what are the time frames for this (is it like the Non-Immigrant O that you have a 45 day window to report annually for renewal)? Yes, I understand that the TE will not need to be "renewed" annually, but do you still need to physically show up annually to somehow activate another year OR get a stamp? 

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1 hour ago, lupin said:

 ...

The exception is after the 5 year sticker expires, you then need to affix a new sticker at immigration.

When you exited and re-entered Thailand just before the expiry of the 5 year Elite Visa validity date, you will be stamped in again for a permission to stay of 1 year.

Obviously you would need re-entry permits when during that last year (after expiry of your 5year Visa validity) you want to be able to re-enter Thailand during that last year's permission to stay period.

So I presume that the 'affix a new sticker' you mention, refers to this re-entry permit.  

Ór is this not correct?

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3 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Do you know how this one year stamping in works?

Yes, I've used it many times over the years. In fact I purchased a 5 year visa about 6 years ago and stayed for the full 5 years without leaving.

 

3 hours ago, Tounge Thaied said:

or example, if you never leave the Kingdom, are you required to report annually to receive this stamp? What I am trying to find out is, are the TE holders required, like the Non-Immigrant O holders, to report to an immigration office annually?

You need to go and get an extension of stay if you stay inside Thailand for the full year and want another 1 year stamp. I don't know how many days you can go before your stamp expires, I normally go within the last week of validity.

 

It costs 1900 Baht for the extension, that's the same as any other extension of stay. Alternatively you can leave the country and come back in at any time and you will always get a one year stamp.

 

In addition to the 1 year extensions you also have to do the 90 day reports and comply with ALL immigration law which applies to every foreigner who lives here on a visa, that means TM30, TM28, etc, etc.

 

Some people have mentioned that they don't like the process of 90 day reports, yearly extensions and the ridiculous TM30/28 address reporting , that's fair enough and there is a way around all of this - it's called 'Permanent Residency'.

 

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1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

When you exited and re-entered Thailand just before the expiry of the 5 year Elite Visa validity date, you will be stamped in again for a permission to stay of 1 year.

Obviously you would need re-entry permits when during that last year (after expiry of your 5year Visa validity) you want to be able to re-enter Thailand during that last year's permission to stay period.

So I presume that the 'affix a new sticker' you mention, refers to this re-entry permit.  

Ór is this not correct?

When he says sticker I believe he's talking about the visa itself, it's a printed paper sticker.

 

When the 5 year visa expires if you have a 10 or 20 year membership or have renewed your 5 year membership you will need to have a new 'visa sticker' inserted - they do this at the airport on arrival, or if you choose not to travel at that time it can be definitely be done at Chaeng Wattana and perhaps one or two other regional offices.

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9 hours ago, lupin said:

You are only required to go to immigration annually to renew the extension ONLY IF you stay in the kingdom for the entire year without leaving... so traveling out and back in to Thailand throughout the year negates the need to renew annually. Each entry back into Thailand will be stamped in again for another year. The exception is after the 5 year sticker expires, you then need to affix a new sticker at immigration.

Ok. Thanks for that explanation. It's so ridiculous. You have to be sure your TM30 is filled out on every travel period, or complete a TM28 if the TM30 doesn't get done for whatever reason, then have to do the 90 day reporting, then do the annual renewal as you describe, and then finally go for the 5 year sticker. So in reality the TE VISA only removes the annual hassle of paperwork/bank statements for the IO as required for the Non O for retirement or Marriage. 

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4 minutes ago, Tounge Thaied said:

Ha ha!! Wow. The applicant spends all that money on the TE and you still have to pay for each annual extension... brilliant! ????

Yes, that's the law, you can avoid extensions by leaving the country once per year and then you will never need to do one.

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I'm still hung up on all the guys who think they're going to fly home for treatment when they have a stroke or a heart attack. Or the guys who can self fund a hospital stay, but then they won't have enough money left over for the rest of their lives in Thailand.

 

Comparing the cost of an Elite visa to the cost of insurance?

 

 

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7 hours ago, ukrules said:

Some people have mentioned that they don't like the process of 90 day reports, yearly extensions and the ridiculous TM30/28 address reporting , that's fair enough and there is a way around all of this - it's called 'Permanent Residency'.

I would love to get my PR, can you tell me how I get a work permit. I have a Thai Marriage VISA, just need a work permit for three years correct?

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