Chazar Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Recently had some sort of overvoltage issue where it seems lightning struck the "Pea's" cables "somewhere" around here ( could be 1-2-3-4km away) and then spread throughout the local wiring network into our land . This happened whilst I was in the Uk and it has blown 3 elcbs 17 leds lights around the land etc all been replaced now The gate is strange, it will open and close but near the end of its run opening or closing it will stutter and fall short of closing or opening 100% it cant make its mind up so stop/starts then shuts off completely thinking its at the end of its run I have a complete spare gate opener so I swapped a few parts over to see if anything had got damaged. Before swapping out the old one ( 3 years) I first disconnected the two IR sensors that the gate uses if it closes on for example your car by mistake to rule these out. Made no difference still stuttering. Swapped out the entire unit.............no difference still stuttering, does it maybe 2 -3 times a day, rest of the time works fine. Disengaging the gears the gate runs freely with no stiffness anywhere. I even swapped from one circuit breaker to an empty one in case it had damaged that, same problem all thats left is the two main breakers boxes which im going to check as below. As far as I can tell both motors and all other parts of it work fine as the same fault appears on the new as the old one. There are force and softness adjustments but this make no difference to it. The supply electric is separate from the main house thru another meter so house and gate are on totally separate electric meters. Am wondering if one of the circuit breakers is faulty or not, plan to run a cable from y own house electric supply to the gate to narrow down if the fault is somewhere in the cables breaker box of the supply for the gate. All is earthed ok inc rods into the ground Baffled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjo o tjim Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Try bypassing the wiring for the sensors or re-routing. You may have some insulation damage and low ground impedance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Could be damp/ants in the limit switches (or iffy switches). Does your motor have an encoder? Our last lightning strike killed the (hall-effect) encoders in both our motors. Any error codes showing on the controller? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 53 minutes ago, Crossy said: Could be damp/ants in the limit switches (or iffy switches). Does your motor have an encoder? Our last lightning strike killed the (hall-effect) encoders in both our motors. Any error codes showing on the controller? Found the problem encoders all ok in fact the whole opener is fine, I swapped out the entire lot and still had the fault..........I bypassed the original supply just and fed it from my own house ( which has its own separate meter) and thats stopped it doing the occasional stuttering so have made headway, now Im going to check the cabling from the second meter up to the breaker boxes because whilst I was away an "electrician" came and " fixed" the two blown elcbs............now it seems something is amiss but at least I know it aint anything to do with the gate opener in itself. All switches are fine all IR sensors are fine I always buy a complete second set of anything I buy here for spares for later when they are unobtainable. All cables are NYY and also inside hdpe trunking, no joints for max protection. Faults is going to be in the 2 breaker boxes I guess where someone has recently "fiddled" Will work my way thru all connections and check all the breakers, seems to pull a certain amount of current then kind of expire, the only other thing running of that particular box of breakers are some lights around the land and the staffs house which has almost zero consumption in fact they struggle to spend 400 baht a month no HEAVY load items like the gate etc on start up. The overvoltage blew 17 leds lights around the land and 3 elcbs, first time its ever happened here, am fitting some over voltage breakers now just ordered them. It Only affected one of the phases out in the road ( single phase inside the land) and each meter runs of a different phase otherwise both would have gone phut. Been down to the PEA who were very helpful and have been out and added some extra surge protectors near my supply along the road, they knew what had happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 2 hours ago, tjo o tjim said: Try bypassing the wiring for the sensors or re-routing. You may have some insulation damage and low ground impedance. First thing I did was disconnect the 2 IR safety sensors, made no difference. All my cables are in hdpe trunking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 14 minutes ago, Chazar said: I bypassed the original supply just and fed it from my own house ( which has its own separate meter) and thats stopped it doing the occasional stuttering Check the wiring for loose/corroded connections, hunt down and fix any taped joints. Feed your existing wiring with a plug from the same circuit you just used to show it's not the opener itself. You are getting there, apply logic and the "half-split" method and you'll get to the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 10, 2019 Author Share Posted October 10, 2019 1 hour ago, Crossy said: any taped joints. Dont have any never use them always go in one run to anything as joints may always end up as a potential problem, the only joints will be in the breaker boxes into the breakers. Ill root away at it, get there in the end but as someone has had a fiddle already Ill have to check what theyve done as well. Thanks to all. Ill disconnect the first feed from the meter and do what you mentioned to check that wiring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredob43 Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 One of the worse things here is to have things earthed into the ground. I know that most wont agree but I have known several peeps that have earthed thing with those rods into the ground, They are fine until there's a lightening strike and the whole lot will go T/ts up. Last one a few weeks ago the power from L/strike burnt out the shower unit and all the wires right back to the main box. Had to put a new ceiling in the shower room, then rewire the lot and repaint the shower room + some other bit's. He was lucky he didn't have a big house fire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 4 hours ago, fredob43 said: One of the worse things here is to have things earthed into the ground. I know that most wont agree but I have known several peeps that have earthed thing with those rods into the ground, They are fine until there's a lightening strike and the whole lot will go T/ts up. So you don't have grounded power systems in your home country?? The danger of stuff getting fried by a lightning strike (which shouldn't be increased by using a ground anyway) is significantly less than the danger of dying due to an ungrounded Class-1 appliance going faulty. But of course, it is entirely up to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredob43 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 9 hours ago, Crossy said: So you don't have grounded power systems in your home country?? The danger of stuff getting fried by a lightning strike (which shouldn't be increased by using a ground anyway) is significantly less than the danger of dying due to an ungrounded Class-1 appliance going faulty. But of course, it is entirely up to you. I'm from the UK and we have earth wires on everything. Nothing is grounded like here. Yes I have some things grounded here my Comp: for one, but if we have any bad weather I unplug the bits just in case. Have seen to many peeps problems with fried wires and other electrical things messed up due to the rod in the ground system getting hit by lightening, so I do tend to be a bit sceptical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 9 minutes ago, fredob43 said: I'm from the UK and we have earth wires on everything. Nothing is grounded like here. Really? How are things grounded in the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fredob43 Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 39 minutes ago, Crossy said: Really? How are things grounded in the UK? We have 3 wires to every point in the houses, a Live, Negative, and Earth, and to every socket and electrical fixture, everything goes back to the main supplier through underground trunking. So it cant be hit by lightening. Mind you saying that in some remote places Scotland and the likes they can have problems as they have all their systems on polls bit like here. Even then the earth wires will normally go through pipes underground or on top of the polls. Weather can be a bit of a problem. Snow and high winds being the worst. It's very rare that anything has problems with lightning. You might get the odd wooden poll struck but that is soon sorted. N/B not one house in the UK has an earth grounding rod. The electrical company wouldn't pass it fit for use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 57 minutes ago, fredob43 said: 1 hour ago, Crossy said: Really? How are things grounded in the UK? We have 3 wires to every point in the houses, a Live, Negative, and Earth, and to every socket and electrical fixture, everything goes back to the main supplier through underground trunking. So it cant be hit by lightening. Mind you saying that in some remote places Scotland and the likes they can have problems as they have all their systems on polls bit like here. Even then the earth wires will normally go through pipes underground or on top of the polls. Weather can be a bit of a problem. Snow and high winds being the worst. It's very rare that anything has problems with lightning. You might get the odd wooden poll struck but that is soon sorted. @Crossy you have been told! Clearly BS-7671 is incorrect and any electriction who is using it is in error. Specifically Chapter 54 Earthing Arrangements and Protective Conductors. Also the fact that all metal pipe work that comes into a building is electricaly bonded to earth within 600mm of entry must be mistaken. There can be no TT supplies or PME systems either. i missed BS 7430:2011 - Protective earthing of electrical installations which must also be in error. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 @sometimewoodworker it's BS7671 (IEE Regulations). In reality, the reason we see more damage of the "fried wiring" type here in Thailand is simply that there's a LOT more lightning in Thailand. See the lightning map below. Of course, this is not helped by the fact that Thailand also has masses more of its LV distribution on aerial cables compared to the UK where the majority, certainly in urban areas, is underground where lightning tends not to go. Unplugging kit when there's lightning about is certainly wise, but not properly grounding your installation is certainly unwise. And add that RCBO if you don't already have one (also required in the UK). By the way, the UK has three main grounding systems in place:- TT - with a local rod, often used in Thailand. TN-C-S with PME - close enough for our purposes to the Thai TN-C-S with MEN (MEN adds a local rod and visible N-E link to the neutral grounding on the poles). And TN-S - Not often seen in Thailand although some condos and large projects may well be wired this way. The Wiki has quite a good explanation of these https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earthing_system Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 5 minutes ago, Crossy said: By the way, the UK has three main grounding systems in place:- Got that and corrected my BS number (not BS comment) ???? the regs do in fact define 5 systems (TN-S, TN-C, TN-C-S, TT and IT) though almost certainly it's just the main 3 in use Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 11, 2019 Share Posted October 11, 2019 1 minute ago, sometimewoodworker said: Got that and corrected my BS number (not BS comment) ???? the regs do in fact define 5 systems (TN-S, TN-C, TN-C-S, TT and IT) though almost certainly it's just the main 3 in use TN-C would be illegal in any domestic installation and IT would be very, very unusual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 11, 2019 Author Share Posted October 11, 2019 Ok to get back on topic its getting even worse, so now I feed the gate opener from the house supply and the gate opens closes fine, no stuttering yet on start up, the motor feels weak like its really struggling to push the gate like it aint getting enough juice. Works all day no stuttering, then I go to bed, next day open the gate fine............close the gate it wont do it FIRST TIME of the day, like its really struggling the motors trying but doesnt seem to have any "push" in it. What i do is push it past the spring microswitch and after that first time it will work fine all day BUT still feels like its struggling on open close. To compound things further I now have the BRAND new ( 3 years old) whole opener fitted and noticed the other day the soft start close dial just goes round and round ie no adjustment obviously broken from new, BUT this feature can be switched off, so Ive done that. Makes no difference to the FIRST CLOSE of the day ( not open, thats fine). I spoke to a guy at PEA he seems quite clued up and he is coming to have a look. After the lightning strike "wherever" it was, and it wasnt at or even close to my house, this has happened. Almost like as the motor demands its initial startup its struggling, once past the micro switch its runs ok. Currently works all day so the next morning I have to get up, open it ( fine) then on the close push it past the microswitch spring. after that works all day??? I dont have any test equipment and wouldnt know what exactly to check for but MR PEA man will check, driving me nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjo o tjim Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Have you checked the voltage at the terminals of the controller both with the unit stopped and running? Maybe even multiple times per day... usually low torque is voltage related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Definitely time to do some voltage checks, at the supply end and at the motor. How long is the cable run to the gate? Wire size? I know it only started after the "lightning incident" but it may have been on the line before and any new equiment installed by PEA could have pushed the voltage under the "works reliably" value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 3 hours ago, tjo o tjim said: Have you checked the voltage at the terminals of the controller both with the unit stopped and running? Maybe even multiple times per day... usually low torque is voltage related. BINGO .............suspected supply form pea was crapas motor start up feels weak, dont have a meter so went out and bought one, just about to check voltage, but I took the gate motor over to my pals condo at Hua Hin wired it up and works like it used to, STRONG on start up not the half hearted feeble attempt here. PEA coming monday lets see what voltage I get now straight off the meter....probably find its 170v or something daft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 1 hour ago, Crossy said: Definitely time to do some voltage checks, at the supply end and at the motor. How long is the cable run to the gate? Wire size? I know it only started after the "lightning incident" but it may have been on the line before and any new equiment installed by PEA could have pushed the voltage under the "works reliably" value. Cable run from meter in road to gate is 24 metres, cable from meter to breaker box is 10mm copper NYY also inside hdpe trunking , from breaker box to gate it runs 2.5mm nyy to motor a distance of 4 metres from breaker box. Gate manufacturer says 1.5mm is ok but I always buy thicker, the motor is running considerably less powerful than it was before, am checking voltage now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lopburi3 Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Your mention of 170v raises the question of a three phase transformer having one fuse blown. Normally those on the blown phase would have no power and users would be reporting but if no users maybe not. Recall our power would drop to 160-170v range when another phase was blown here in mooban. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 Ok result of voltage test, 230 V, when start the motor it drops for a fraction of a second to 226 then goes back up to 230v same at all the breaker boxes 230V so no under voltage.......... next test pls bearing in mind my limited knowledge of multimeters. I just bought this meter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crossy Posted October 12, 2019 Share Posted October 12, 2019 Do the same test at the motor itself please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, Crossy said: Do the same test at the motor itself please. already done 230v dropping for fraction of a second to 226v then back up to 230v am beginning to wonder if the new gate motor has some other fault also, ie first one damaged by lightning second one just damaged from new being as the "soft start" button just rotates which Ive switched off so should have no effect. Just reconnected it back to its original supply and this is 226V dropping to 221v as the motor starts then back up to 226v after initial start So to my house i get 230v and from the second electric meter 226-7v Stutters occasionally at the 226 v meter but from my house at 230v no stuttering just an initial refusal to close after opening first thing in the day....... after that opens and closes fine although seems slow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 12, 2019 Author Share Posted October 12, 2019 Come to the conclusion that the first motor has got damaged from lightning (blew 17 led lights round the land also) BUT the second brand new one also has a fault in the soft close adjustment, if set too low it doesnt have the strength to open the door and the manual says this and it seems this is what is happening, First run of the day the door opens ok but when getting to the "stop" and trying to return struggles, after the first use of the day it works ok but you can see its "trying hard" but soft close is stopping it. I have a new pcb coming from China and that will have a functioning soft close. In the meantime ordered a whole new motor. Just bad luck the brand new motor ( 2-3 years old on my shelf inside house) had a fault from new. Also now fitting surge protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chazar Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 All confirmed now, the soft close function on the "new" motor pcb just revolves and unfortunately was set in its lowest (softest) closing setting. This means that the motor doesnt have enough grunt to push the gate open sometimes, new 3386 potentiometer ordered and will fix at least one of the motors. Also ordered totally new pcb for the first one which will solve that issue. PIA trying to sort it out all for the sake of a duff new motor and the cost of the part 30 odd baht! Unfortunate the new motor had the dodgy potentiometer (left one in the first photo) and that it was set in the softest position, if it was in the hardest the gate would have worked fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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