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What foreign insurance policies are accepted for the new requirements


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From the Khaosod article

http://www.khaosodenglish.com/news/2019/10/10/health-insurance-will-be-mandatory-for-retiree-visa-holders/?fbclid=IwAR1BMEk9qJZ1tSTeXtsWDlkhPRUau4Cr0YUOjMljWz7du1eM2y7HiTvESYE

 

Starting Oct. 31, foreigners over 50 entering the country with an O-A visa must show that they have valid health insurance covering their period of stay, deputy public health minister Sathit Pitutecha said

 

Policies can either be purchased from domestic or foreign insurers, but the sum of foreign policies must not be less than the amount stipulated for Thai policies.

“The new rules will be applied to those who enter the country for the first time and those who wish to extend their visas,” Sathit said.

Edited by inspire15
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2 hours ago, Max69xl said:

The order is quite clear. It says Long Term Visas, that means only the O-A and the O-X visas. The O-X already requires an insurance. 

No that is not true.  The order starts out that way, but then further down it discusses future things, i.e. extensions.  You can't just absorb the first part and ignore the latter

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The TGIA website is very vague in its wording. Every application for an OA visa is classed as a new application, you cant renew it. So the wording around having to use a Thai insurance company when you renew is wrong. 

If you read the police order it all becomes clear. (1) When you apply for a an OA visa you can use a policy from your home country that is in effect for the whole 12 months validy of the visa. (2) As OA visas enable you to get a 2nd year out of the visa if you exit and then re enter Thailand just before the expiry of the visa. The insurance for this 2nd year MUST be obtained from a Thai insurance company. If you do not do this you will not be allowed to re enter Thailand for a further 12 months. (3) If you then apply for a new OA visa the process repeats.

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47 minutes ago, jimn said:

The TGIA website is very vague in its wording. Every application for an OA visa is classed as a new application, you cant renew it. So the wording around having to use a Thai insurance company when you renew is wrong. 

If you read the police order it all becomes clear. (1) When you apply for a an OA visa you can use a policy from your home country that is in effect for the whole 12 months validy of the visa. (2) As OA visas enable you to get a 2nd year out of the visa if you exit and then re enter Thailand just before the expiry of the visa. The insurance for this 2nd year MUST be obtained from a Thai insurance company. If you do not do this you will not be allowed to re enter Thailand for a further 12 months. (3) If you then apply for a new OA visa the process repeats.

Why do you think you can't extend an O-A visa?

"Foreigner who wishes to extend his or her stay shall submit a request for extension of stay at the Office of the Immigration Bureau with documented evidence of money transfer or a deposit account in Thailand or an income certificate showing an amount of not less than 800,000 Baht or an income certificate plus a deposit account showing a total amount of not less than 800,000 Baht.  A one-year extension of stay shall be granted at the discretion of the immigration officer to the foreigner as long as he or she meets the above requirements."

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Today i had my Thai son go to New Phrae Immigration office an inquire about insurance

that is required for my Retirement Extension.

They say NOT REQUIRED, so for a 75 year old expat, I may have lucked out this time.

However, I am tired of walking through the Tall Thai Grass, never knowing when the

immigration snake may strike.

So i am making a plan for moving to Cambodia, and not waiting for the next BS rule to drop.

All my Thai Family have become very upset over this situation, as well as myself.

I have explained that even if i have to move, it will be cheaper and easier for us to visit,

than paying the Extortion via Insurance, along with all the other nonsense required.

I will go through the gauntlet for renewed extension mid November, 30 days before expiration.

Which will give me time for exit plan should things go south.

All this stress over red tape BS, really blows my idea of a relaxed retirement,

which was my intention for coming to Thailand in the first place.

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3 hours ago, jimn said:

The TGIA website is very vague in its wording. Every application for an OA visa is classed as a new application, you cant renew it. So the wording around having to use a Thai insurance company when you renew is wrong. 

If you read the police order it all becomes clear. (1) When you apply for a an OA visa you can use a policy from your home country that is in effect for the whole 12 months validy of the visa. (2) As OA visas enable you to get a 2nd year out of the visa if you exit and then re enter Thailand just before the expiry of the visa. The insurance for this 2nd year MUST be obtained from a Thai insurance company. If you do not do this you will not be allowed to re enter Thailand for a further 12 months. (3) If you then apply for a new OA visa the process repeats.

I think that's the clearest summary I've seen so far Jimn,  thank you. I'm a bit confused as to situations like mine whereby my O/A visa was granted last month and I'll be arriving in Thailand on 14 October. My visa and arrival are before 31 October so I won't be affected by the new ruling. However I am uncertain whether subsequent re-entry into Thailand within the year of my visa will mean the health insurance rules will apply to me, even though my visa was effective before the new rules kicked in.

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10 hours ago, thequietman said:

Everyone needs to chill out. Get a policy that meets requirements, pay your first installment, get the paper work and cancel direct debit after that point.

 

You have the paper, which is all these muppets want to see.

 

Chill.

Mine is a one year policy paid up front. I don't think they offered a monthly payment option. We have yet to see a list of 'acceptable' policies... likely all Thai ones!

Edited by jacko45k
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5 hours ago, Doowat said:

I think that's the clearest summary I've seen so far Jimn,  thank you. I'm a bit confused as to situations like mine whereby my O/A visa was granted last month and I'll be arriving in Thailand on 14 October. My visa and arrival are before 31 October so I won't be affected by the new ruling. However I am uncertain whether subsequent re-entry into Thailand within the year of my visa will mean the health insurance rules will apply to me, even though my visa was effective before the new rules kicked in.

I agree you will not be affected when you arrive 14 October. In the topic above have a look at the police order. Towards the end of it it goes into details about entering Thailand and insurance. See points 1, 2 ,3

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9 hours ago, WhatupThailand said:

Today i had my Thai son go to New Phrae Immigration office an inquire about insurance

that is required for my Retirement Extension.

They say NOT REQUIRED, so for a 75 year old expat, I may have lucked out this time.

However, I am tired of walking through the Tall Thai Grass, never knowing when the

immigration snake may strike.

So i am making a plan for moving to Cambodia, and not waiting for the next BS rule to drop.

All my Thai Family have become very upset over this situation, as well as myself.

I have explained that even if i have to move, it will be cheaper and easier for us to visit,

than paying the Extortion via Insurance, along with all the other nonsense required.

I will go through the gauntlet for renewed extension mid November, 30 days before expiration.

Which will give me time for exit plan should things go south.

All this stress over red tape BS, really blows my idea of a relaxed retirement,

which was my intention for coming to Thailand in the first place.

If you don't have an O-A Visa, why send your son to check the requirements? Why get stressed up? 

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On 10/10/2019 at 11:55 AM, ubonjoe said:

The new rules are not for extensions of stay.

Only if a person applies for a OA long stay visa at a embassy or consulate in their home country is the insurance required.

You certainly have nothing to worry about at this time.

I don't think that is correct - Extract from the new rules, effective October 31, 2019:

 

Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien's Extension of Stay in the Kingdom Attachment to the Order of the Royal Thai Police no. 548 /2562 dated September 27, 2019

 

 

 

Column: Reason of necessity

 

2.22 In case of retirement

(1) Each permission shall be granted for no more than 1 year.

(2) An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A according to the Criterion 6, will be permitted to stay for a period of insurance and coverage. Each permission shall be granted for no more than 1 year.

Column: Criteria for consideration

 

(6)       Only for an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A, must buy a Thai health insurance online, which covers the length of stay in the Kingdom with no less than 40,000 baht coverage for outpatient treatment and no less than 400,000 baht for inpatient, via the website longstay.tgia.org.  (Emphasis Added)

 

 

 

Based on the title of the Rule, it is applicable to the granting of an extension of stay, not on a application for an O-A Visa which would be a rule from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs rather than the Immigration Bureau.  It seems clear that if a person was granted a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa, enters Thailand receiving a one year permission to stay, and then applies for an extension of that stay, they will have to have health insurance from one of the companies listed on the Thailand General Insurance Association. 

 

 

The last page in the new Rule (on Immigration website as a pdf file) provides the new requirements for the "permission to stay" period when a person enters Thailand using a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa -- Extracted from that page:

Therefore, when an alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A from an overseas Royal Thai Embassy with the purpose of retirement (not exceeding 1 year), enters the Kingdom, an immigration officer shall abide by the following practices for permitting an alien to stay in the Kingdom, effective from October 31, 2019 onwards:

 

1.An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A for single entry or multiple entry and enters the Kingdom for the first time, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for a coverage period of health insurance for not exceeding 1 year. An immigration officer shall check any remarks on a visa issued by an overseas Royal Thai Embassy for consideration and approval.

 

2.An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A for multiple entry and enters the Kingdom from the second time onwards, will be permitted to stay in the Kingdom for the remaining coverage period of health insurance for not exceeding 1 year.

 

3.An alien, who has been granted Non-Immigrant Visa Class 0-A for multiple entry but the coverage period of health insurance has already expired, even if the visa is still valid, will not be permitted to enter the Kingdom. However, the said alien can buy a health insurance in Thailand in order to be permitted to enter the Kingdom for a coverage period of health insurance for not exceeding 1 year.

 

 

 

 

Edited by soisanuk
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21 minutes ago, soisanuk said:

Based on the title of the Rule, it is applicable to the granting of an extension of stay, not on a application for an O-A Visa which would be a rule from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs rather than the Immigration Bureau.  It seems clear that if a person was granted a Non-Immigrant O-A Visa, enters Thailand receiving a one year permission to stay, and then applies for an extension of that stay, they will have to have health insurance from one of the companies listed on the Thailand General Insurance Association. 

The title is the same as police order 327/2557 that contains the original clause 2.22 that was amended to add the OA visa requirements.

image.png.6cb316f4eb2a226f53ffeaeb63e4284e.png

 

I have read the complete order more than once since I found  the announcement of it on the immigration website the morning of the 9th.

I have not been able see anyway that it can misconstrued to indicate it applies to extensions of stay.

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1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

 

I have read the complete order more than once since I found  the announcement of it on the immigration website the morning of the 9th.

I have not been able see anyway that it can misconstrued to indicate it applies to extensions of stay.

 

Joe, have you seen the following post relayed from a visa consultant firm up in Chiang Mai?

 

 

 

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11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

Joe, have you seen the following post relayed from a visa consultant firm up in Chiang Mai?

No but I got a message from the OP about it.

Just more rubbish from an immigration officer that is incorrect. 

It happens everytime a new police order is done. It takes time for the correct info to get to out to all the officers.

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2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The title is the same as police order 327/2557 that contains the original clause 2.22 that was amended to add the OA visa requirements.

image.png.6cb316f4eb2a226f53ffeaeb63e4284e.png

 

I have read the complete order more than once since I found  the announcement of it on the immigration website the morning of the 9th.

I have not been able see anyway that it can misconstrued to indicate it applies to extensions of stay.

 

Ubonjoe, my apology, I'm confused or maybe missing some critical point. I cannot see how to reconcile your statement that the O-A insurance requirement does not apply to extensions of stay of A-O visas, with, the below text (yellow) on page 2 of order 548/2562 Criteria for Consideration of Granting an Alien's Extension of Stay.

 

What am I missing, or do you only mean people granted an O-A visa prior to Oct 31, 2019?

 

page2.jpg.b18b1887fd0d4dd16af8ae60b0ca41c0.jpg

 

Edited by rabas
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38 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Yes 

And it will only be checked when people enter the country using the OA visa for entry.

image.png.179fb8112100fe76bcee342bdbca75b9.png

Ok, clear so far. To summarize the above: A person granted an O-A visa in his home country after 31-10-19 will be checked on each entry and the length of stay granted will never exceed the coverage period of the insurance policy. However, the alien can extend the coverage as needed before entering. And as you say this does not consider extensions of stay.

Edited by rabas
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15 hours ago, rabas said:

Ok, clear so far. To summarize the above: A person granted an O-A visa in his home country after 31-10-19 will be checked on each entry and the length of stay granted will never exceed the coverage period of the insurance policy. However, the alien can extend the coverage as needed before entering. And as you say this does not consider extensions of stay.

 

I'm not so sure they're not going to enforce this for pre-existing O-A visa holders where the person is making an entry to Thailand post Oct. 31....

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On 10/11/2019 at 12:16 PM, Max69xl said:

If you don't have an O-A Visa, why send your son to check the requirements? Why get stressed up? 

Because Interpretation of the rules, Change from Office to Office, and Officer to Officer.

Which may be due to Expectations of Extra Income. Or How the Wind Blows Today.

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On 10/11/2019 at 8:10 PM, rabas said:

Ok, clear so far. To summarize the above: A person granted an O-A visa in his home country after 31-10-19 will be checked on each entry and the length of stay granted will never exceed the coverage period of the insurance policy. However, the alien can extend the coverage as needed before entering. And as you say this does not consider extensions of stay.

This considers extensions of an O-A visa dated 27th September 2019. It makes no mention of when the O-A visa was obtained

 

POLICE ORDER.jpg

Edited by Lovethailandelite
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  • 4 months later...

After getting all my paperwork done to renew my  non O-A visa (obtained 4 years ago in US),  a trip to the bank for the cert of deposit, 2 trips to immigration, waiting 1.5 hours...........

I just found out about the new insurance requirements.   Min cost is 40,000 and it takes a week to get the policy.   My US insurance that I pay $6,000 a year for is good over here but it has to be "thai insurance".

Anybody found other options like the "fixers" that get you around the bank account requirements?

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14 hours ago, beachump said:

My US insurance that I pay $6,000 a year for is good over here but it has to be "thai insurance".

No, it can be foreign (home country) insurance so long as you can get the insurance company to round up two directors to sign the Thai government provided form.  If not, then you are correct,  your $6,000 a year insurance will not satisfy this new requirement 

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33 minutes ago, Langsuan Man said:

No, it can be foreign (home country) insurance so long as you can get the insurance company to round up two directors to sign the Thai government provided form.  If not, then you are correct,  your $6,000 a year insurance will not satisfy this new requirement 

The form is from the Thailand General Insurance Association (TGIA) where Thai companies that offer policies have links.  While the Certificate, if completed by a non-Thai company is acceptable by Thai Embassies/Consulates for those applying for the Non-OA Visa, it is not the case with Immigration for extension of stay by holders of the OA Visa.  Immigration rules require the health insurance be from one of the companies on the TGIA webpage - which has two sections, one for the OA Visa and the other for the OX Visa.  Only Thai companies are listed.

 

So, for extensions obtained from Immigration, they will only accept a Certificate from one of the Thai companies.  There are also several reports that some Immigration Offices want the policy period to correspond to the one year extension period or they will not approve the extension.

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On 10/10/2019 at 11:55 AM, ubonjoe said:

The new rules are not for extensions of stay.

Only if a person applies for a OA long stay visa at a embassy or consulate in their home country is the insurance required.

You certainly have nothing to worry about at this time.

You'll need to convince the folks at my immigration office that it is not necessary for extensions. I have had a foreign policy for 7 years and they insist, if I want an extension (this would be # 14) that I need to have a Thai health insurance policy.

 

Please be so kind as to call them and correct them in their incorrect interpretation of their own rule.

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22 minutes ago, Tagaa said:

You'll need to convince the folks at my immigration office that it is not necessary for extensions. I have had a foreign policy for 7 years and they insist, if I want an extension (this would be # 14) that I need to have a Thai health insurance policy.

 

Perhaps you should look at the date on that post I did nearly 6 months ago.

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