Refused entry TWICE, be warned.

[Syduan]

This is an account of my recent incidents with Thai immigration. 

I was returning to Thailand from a job that I was sent to in the Bahamas to inspect a boat that had ran onto a reef. After inspection of the boat I informed the client that I couldn't do anything about it and that I was returning to Thailand. 
On the 7th of June 2019 I flew from Fort Lauderdale in Florida USA to London, then onto Bangkoks Suvarnabhumi airport. Upon my arrival at the immigration desk I was asked a few questions as to why I was in Thailand ? and then I was informed by the immigration officer that she believed that I was looking for work in Thailand and that I had insufficient funds to stay in the kingdom. I then started to produce evidence to prove that I was working for a company based in Hong Kong and proof of funds that far exceeded the required amount needed by immigration. All this was waved aside and not even inspected, I was then escorted to the immigration offices inside the airport and I presumed it would all be clarified in there. How wrong I was..... I was met inside the office by three immigration people who then told me that I was going to be charged under sections two and three which were Insufficient funds to stay in the Kingdom, and working in Thailand. On the desk I was sat at there was a charge sheet already made out with the charges on it and I was told to sign it, this I declined. In the meantime a member of ground staff from British Airways turned up, the airline I had flown from London with, and the airline member then proceeded to jab his finger on the charge sheet and told me to sign it, this I declined again as I had not broken any laws.  
I continued to explain to the three immigration members that I had not broken any laws and have evidence that their charges were unfounded, this they ignored and didn't even inspect. This situation went on for about an hour between the immigration people and the BA staff member and when they finally realised that I wasn't going to sign the charge sheet, I was then escorted to the containment cells in the airport. The cell stank of urine and was to say the least dirty and smelly, I then got onto my phone and informed my company of my predicament and also the British embassy in London as the embassy in Bangkok was closed as it was late Friday and would not open till Monday. 
So just to recap, I had travelled twenty hours flying from Nassau, Florida, London, then Bangkok and now was sitting in a jail cell under false charges, not exactly what I expected from a country that I have lived in for over twenty five years, which I've previously worked on the largest projects in the country as a professional Engineer, on the Skytrain project, the underground project, PTT, and latterly the extension to Suvarnabhumi airport, all with work permits I might add, which I can supply. 
Anyway I settled into the situation and was hoping that shortly someone would see what had happened and would sort the situation out, that never happened and I ended up staying there for five days on a diet of two rice meals a day and no shower and change of clothes all for the princely sum of 750 bht a night. While I was in the cell the British airways staff came around for days trying to get me to sign the charge sheet and accept to pay for my return flight back to England at a price of 600 pounds. I declined BA's offer over the five days until on the fifth day a member of Thai immigration informed me that if I did not fly back to England now as they wanted, then I would be arrested the moment I was released and would be imprisoned for two months in immigration jail and then would be banned from Thailand for 99 years...…...
I'd had enough of this madness with Thai immigration and requested BA come to the cell which they did, I then purchased a flight back to England for 600 pounds one way and thought i'd be better off outside rather than sat in this stinking third world toilet of a jail.  I might add that I did not sign the charge sheet and left of my own request.  
On the day of my departure I returned to the immigration office and found an elderly lady officer whom I showed my passport to, she remarked that she had no idea why I should of been detained and was very sorry for my ordeal, I asked her if any record of this incident is on immigration computer record ? she informed me that it wasn't. 
I was now in the hands of BA whom I asked if I could have a shower ? no was the answer that came back from the manager of BA ground staff, I informed the BA individual with me that no way was I getting onto a long haul flight after five days in a urine stinking cell and subjecting the passenger to great discomfort, the individual who was with me apologised for his manager and very graciously asked the cleaning staff in the airport if I could use their facilities to have a shower, this I did and had to put on the same filthy clothes as my bag with fresh clothes was at the departure gate. We then proceeded to the departure gate where my bag was retrieved and I was given fresh clothes in front of the passengers waiting for the flight, I then went into the toilets at the departure gate to change, treat like a common criminal in front of the waiting passengers.
I was then taken to the aircraft door by the BA staff member who handed my passport to the stewardess at the door.  
I'm a Engineering consultant, i'm 53 years old, and I've been traveling internationally for thirty years now to all corners of the globe, and I can honestly say that I've never seen anything like this in all those years, or being treat as disgustingly. 
The saga continues, I returned to England and at the suggestion of the elderly lady in immigration renewed my passport and purchased a ticket for Kuala Lumpur knowing that Malaysian immigration has always been reasonable. I landed in KL and then proceeded to Penang where I thought i'd better check if the passport was ok and applied for a tourist visa at the Thai consulate, this i obtained without a problem and assumed that the passport was ok and indeed there was no record of the Suvarnabhumi incident. How wrong could I be !
I returned into Thailand via Pedang Besar and received no problem from immigration and went back to BKK where I live and just thought I'll write the whole incident off as just a bad experience, but i'd only been in BKK a week when I was offered a job in Malaysia so I booked a flight through Don Meung and obtained a re-entry permit on my week old tourist visa just incase I might have to return in the near future.
Having seen things change in Thailand over the past few years I thought it wise to get a job in Malaysia with the corresponding paperwork so that if things got really bad I would just stay in Malaysia full time. Anyway to obtain a Malaysian work permit you have to leave the country twice, initially to apply for the certificate, then a second time to get the permit placed in your passport. As I had a Thai two month tourist visa I thought the second border crossing i'd do at Had Yai so I proceeded to Pedang Besar again as i'd had no problem last time and I had three days left on my visa and I only needed to cross the border and come back to activate my work permit.
I placed my passport on the immigration counter and the nightmare re-started, the officer would not allow me into the country just to cross the border, she then proceeded to ask me for all documentation which she waved away as it was produced, document by document, I later found out she couldn't read English ! The situation got a bit fraught at one point and a Malaysian policeman came over and asked what the problem was, as Pedang Besar is not Thailand, the immigration officer waved my open return flight ticket in his face along with my work permit for Malaysia and asked if they are real ?  He told the immigration officer that yes the ticket is real and the work permit is for the state railway of Malaysia, to which the officer replied to the Malay policeman that she didn't want to know anything about Malaysia !  I'd had enough of this individual by this point as had the Malay policeman who gestured for me to come over to him, he stated that the officer was crazy and he's seen lots of this going on recently and it was a good idea if I just came back to Malaysia, I gathered up all my documents and passport not wishing to have another passport ruined by Thai immigration.  As I was leaving the Thai immigration officer had basically turned deranged and was now plowing through the records on her computer, and low and behold what came up ? the incident from Suvarnabhumi, big smiles all round as she'd finally found something to pin on me. 
I stayed around for a short while trying to explain the incident but it was basically like talking to the wall. 
I'd already collected my documents so I just walked back to Malay immigration and re-stamped in with a welcome back sir, in sharp contrast to my recent dealings with Thai immigration. 
I currently live a work in Malaysia and have no fears now of crossing borders and encountering irrational individuals who seem to be dead set on destroying peoples travel plans and passports, indeed I've been told recently that Thailand's current policy is that westerners are not welcome anymore.  This really doesn't bother me as I saw the writing on the wall years ago.  
How sad that a country that I've lived in more than half of my life, which I've helped over the years on infrastructure projects I can't  return to having being falsely accused, falsely imprisoned, and now being victimised for absolutely nothing.
I have a girlfriend of over ten years who is suffering with an illness at the moment, my possessions are in Bkk, and now as an innocent man who has never been charged with a criminal offence I now have to prove my innocence at great expense.
Truly an incredible situation, my only consolation is that at least I didn't have another passport destroyed and I currently live in a country that welcomes foreigners...…...

[BritManToo]

You do know you can appeal any refusal to enter Thailand.

If the minister does not review and deny your entry within 7 days, you get to enter.

 

Your first attempt, you should have asked to appeal the moment they refused you entry.

Edited October 10, 2019 by BritManToo

[hackjam]

When initially detained at Airport, is it possible to get some legal assistance, call a Lawyer?? 

[RJRS1301]

Unbelievable situation. It really does appear the at"IO discretion" part of their role, should be removed and retraining needs to occur for all staff on the LAW.

Again it is proof of Thailand being 3rd world in administration

[TheMysteriousMrTesla]

27 minutes ago, Syduan said:

... also the British embassy in London ...

Not doubting the story, but why would there be a British Embassy in London.

 

[BritManToo]

4 minutes ago, hackjam said:

When initially detained at Airport, is it possible to get some legal assistance, call a Lawyer?? 

It is, but most people refused seem to stop thinking and enter a 'blind funk' state.

If I were denied I'd 1st ask to appeal, then 2nd call the immigration solicitor that my gf is friends with.

Just came in on my 10th consecutive non 'o' this weekend at CNX, immigration didn't even look at me.

Edited October 10, 2019 by BritManToo

[metisdead]

Moved to the Thai Visas forum. 

[madmen]

It shouldn't make a difference but did you angry and start yelling?  Its just that there appears like part of the story is missing

[SteveK]

It's getting ridiculous now. These stories need to get out into the public domain, I'm sure there are some newspapers who's be interested in stories such as these.

[sapson]

They really are incredulous, so many basic rights have been ignored!

i wonder with such strong defamation rules here how they get away with stamping in your passport insufficient funds when like many others you had the funds or proof of,so the stamp is fraudulent and asking you to sign a document which clearly is incorrect.

 

Shame this site is a commercial concern and therefore doesnt have the gonads to voice official complaints and make the powers that be fully aware of the total sham, charade fiasco of some crazed immigration officers fabrication and interpretation of visa rules at some points of entry.

 

if i was the OP poster i would share this report with every relevant authority, news organisation,travel agent ,embassy, airline and every possible social media outlet to make the whole bizarre fiasco as public as possible!!

[steven100]

geeeze  …. what a boring life I have compared to yours

[scottiejohn]

39 minutes ago, Syduan said:

I was returning to Thailand from a job

So much detail on some things but no detail on why were you returning to Thailand, what visa/extension were you using, what is your previous history of visas/entries etc to Thailand and so on.

Also as Post 5 asks.  How can you call a British Embassy in London?

[visarunner]

you came in on the wrong visa. 

I know many people have been targeted in the same way. Get a Non O retirement and you are free to enter and leave. 

[Skallywag]

43 minutes ago, Syduan said:

Upon my arrival at the immigration desk I was asked a few questions as to why I was in Thailand ? and then I was informed by the immigration officer that she believed that I was looking for work in Thailand

What was your answer to the "few questions"?  Are you on a retirement visa, Non-Imm O? 

 

46 minutes ago, Syduan said:

which I've previously worked on the largest projects in the country as a professional Engineer, on the Skytrain project, the underground project, PTT, and latterly the extension to Suvarnabhumi airport, all with work permits I might add, which I can supply. 

So you do not have a work permit in Thailand now?   

[stevenl]

How did you enter first time, on a tourist visa, visa exempt, non-immigrant visa or re-entry permit on extension of stay?

 

Many of these stories of people living in country on tourist visa getting rejected, so my bet would be on one of the first 2.

[madmen]

13 minutes ago, SteveK said:

It's getting ridiculous now. These stories need to get out into the public domain, I'm sure there are some newspapers who's be interested in stories such as these.

Your talking anonymous posters .Anybody can say what the want and trolls on TV are a dime a dozen..so how do you expect newspapers to buy it?

 

Not saying it didn't happen but no way to prove it

[SteveK]

14 minutes ago, madmen said:

Not saying it didn't happen but no way to prove it

I agree, if this story was fully genuine and he had done no wrong, he shouldn't be concerned but it does seem that there are some holes in the story.

 

It should be criminal for them to refuse you entry on not having sufficient funds when you have 20k in your wallet and a Thai bank book with you. Why don't they have another reason for refusal such as "person attempted to enter on incorrect visa type", rather than using the same old insufficient funds as a catch all to deny anyone?

Edited October 10, 2019 by SteveK

[Tayaout]

It's easy to understand what happened. He had a long history of stay in Thailand. Multiple previous work permits. He tried coming on visa exempt so they denied him.

 

It comes as a shock for those who stayed here for a long time with this kind of pattern but they tightened the screw and the IO don't use critical thinking. 

 

This is unlikely to happen for non-o marriage/retirement or elite but you better start thinking about a Thai health insurance. 

Edited October 10, 2019 by Tayaout

[sillyfool]

someone has to be that guy so i will ask.

 

what is your visa and stamp history over say the past 2 or 3 years entering and exiting thailand ?

 

sorry to hear about the whole ordeal. i don't wish that on anyone. 

[Tayaout]

7 minutes ago, SteveK said:

It should be criminal for them to refuse you entry on not having sufficient funds when you have 20k in your wallet and a Thai bank book with you. Why don't they have another reason for refusal such as "person attempted to enter on incorrect visa type", rather than using the same old insufficient funds as a catch all to deny anyone?

12.9 is for not having 20K. They denied him under 12.2 no appropriate means of living in thailand (this is no necessarily about money) and 12.3 because they suspect him of working in Thailand since he has a lot of previous work permit. 

[WorriedNoodle]

49 minutes ago, TheMysteriousMrTesla said:

Not doubting the story, but why would there be a British Embassy in London.

I gave up reading when I saw that bit.

[benjieboy]

5 minutes ago, WorriedNoodle said:

I gave up reading when I saw that bit.

He probably meant the british foreign office

 

[madmen]

22 minutes ago, benjieboy said:

He probably meant the british foreign office

 

So why did he say British embassy? nothing alike

[stevenl]

2 minutes ago, madmen said:

So why did he say British embassy? nothing alike

Simple mistake.

 

I see no reason to doubt the OP's story, quite a few refusals of people living here but trying to enter on tourist visas or visa exempt lately.

[phuketrichard]

I see NO MENTION of how many visas, visa exempts the OP had previous to the original denial.

without this info, we cant make a decision if he was unlucky or he <deleted> up and has been scamming the system for years

[tabarin]

People often say that a clean passport doesn't help because it doesn't change the systems. 

I beg the difference as these type of refusals is almost never due to the computer system but due to the IO his/her discretion,
and almost always after seeing many many used pages with visa's in the psychical passport. 

However, when they see visa's like the non-o, they seem to not abuse this discretion + be careless of the history.
Any IO loves a clean thin passport with a brand new visa. I would have done that if refused already.

All that aside, I guess me is very lucky, I still have the same passport with even a 1y blacklist stamp in it.

Edited October 10, 2019 by tabarin

[andy72]

isnt he pretty enough for a story he spent twice as long in the toilet accommodation
 

two days in hell

BKK thailands premier airport

 

there is always something missing in these stories
its a blank passport 
only a Malaysia stamp in it and a SETV
SHOULD HAVE BEEN A WALK OVER AT pb

Edited October 10, 2019 by andy72

[sillyfool]

6 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

I see NO MENTION of how many visas, visa exempts the OP had previous to the original denial.

without this info, we cant make a decision if he was unlucky or he F#@ked up and has been scamming the system for years

this crucial information seems to always be lacking in many of the posts that keep popping up. had it been me i would have included that in my original post. that's just me though.

[andy72]

& no mention of fingerprint system 
I flew into CM may 31 system was up and running but they did not print me only Chinese 
but 6 weeks ago I came in through Sungai Kolok and was completely printed

 

[moe666]

If you live in Thailand why not a proper visa, retirement or even the elite.