Brexit deal can be done by October 31, Ireland says after 'positive' Johnson meeting

[NanLaew]

8 hours ago, sanemax said:

Is that the same Tommy Robinson who got attacked by Remainers ?

Attacked or lynched?

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, elliss said:

 

  May i add ,  surely the Irish people both North and South , 

      must be allowed a free vote on their destiny , regarding  EU or UK.  in or out.

     Boris,  is a minority group..

 

Yes they are allowed under the GFA but Sinn Fein said some time ago it is a matter of timing. They have to get it right or it would be another 7 years.

A problematic brexit and every chance NI is history, probably what the UK is looking for with the blame on someone else.

[sandyf]

44 minutes ago, tebee said:

And the DUP are now damned if they support Johnson's deal, damned if they don't .

 

Truly Brexit is cursed - it will destroy all that embrace it .

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/12/dup-options-johnson-eu-deal-reject-or-endorse-dilemma

Boris Johnson‘s hopes of securing a Brexit deal have been dealt a blow after the DUP‘s deputy leader warned that the plan reportedly being considered by UK and EU officials “cannot work”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-boris-johnson-deal-dup-nigel-dodds-ireland-a9153631.html

[sandyf]

10 hours ago, sanemax said:

No they cannot .

The UK all voted already , and the vote has been caste .

Its also nothing to do with EIRE . Its the UK's decision .

If the Northern Irish want to vote on leaving the UK, that is a separate issue

All one and the same.

A reunification referendum would be a vote open to all of Ireland and under the cloud of brexit it would be based on NI leaving the UK and joining the EU.

People tend to forget that the EU was instrumental in putting together the GFA and have been funding the peace process since the agreement was made.

[NanLaew]

30 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Boris Johnson‘s hopes of securing a Brexit deal have been dealt a blow after the DUP‘s deputy leader warned that the plan reportedly being considered by UK and EU officials “cannot work”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-news-boris-johnson-deal-dup-nigel-dodds-ireland-a9153631.html

Cannot work or he desperately doesn't want it to work?

 

Nigel Dodds tweeted, “Northern Ireland being held in the customs union without Great Britain is an obvious breach of the principle of consent in the Belfast Agreement. This would stir up problems in Northern Ireland long after Brexit is resolved.”

 

But it doesn't matter as that would no longer be the EU's problem and solely a British problem and a problem that could be much better handled if the DUP would admit to the folly of their leader's previous corrupt practices as First Minister thus getting Sinn Fein out of their funk and Stormont reopened. In fact isn't part of these 11th-hour deals entail having the concerned Irish parties review the border and Customs 'situation' every 4 years or so? It would be nice if NI started using their parliamentary palace before that. Right now there's a bunch of civil servants muddling along as there are no ministers to actually make decisions. But not much hope of that...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/11/northern-ireland-parties-play-down-stormont-being-revived-brexit

 

 

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, sandyf said:

People tend to forget that the EU was instrumental in putting together the GFA and have been funding the peace process since the agreement was made.

They were? I must have missed that bit.

[stephenterry]

13 hours ago, NanLaew said:

That's exactly why we've been spinning our wheels these last 3 plus years.

 

Elected MP's are entrusted to carry out the will of the people that elected them. End of.

 

Queue the ignorant, racist, old and uneducated Brexit voter spiel...

It might surprise you, but that is false. They are entrusted, most of all, in to decide what's best for the country they serve - i.e. 65 million people, not a minority 17 million. That's political democracy in action in the UK.

 

As for 'the will of the people' this is the 17 million minority who voted to leave the EU in 2016. As far as today's MPS are concerned, what a 17 million minority want is not a democratic rationale in 2019. 

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

People's Vote Please - Deal vs Remain and the election and then we all get our lives back. Only an extremist or a political opportunist without the country's best interests at heart wouldn't want that. See you next Saturday in London. Don't worry no-one will get lynched we are nice people on the Remain side - but bring a milkshake  - to drink........ There maybe a few of these nethanderals roaming around though hopefully plod will sort them out and put Tommy back where he belongs.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/12/support-grows-for-new-brexit-poll-amid-fears-pm-plan#img-1

 

 

[sanemax]

4 hours ago, sandyf said:

All one and the same.

A reunification referendum would be a vote open to all of Ireland and under the cloud of brexit it would be based on NI leaving the UK and joining the EU.

People tend to forget that the EU was instrumental in putting together the GFA and have been funding the peace process since the agreement was made.

Would EIRE want unification ?

I've heard quite often Southerners stating that unification would be more trouble than its worth and they are happy the way it is and they dont want the trouble that unification will bring 

[beautifulthailand99]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Would EIRE want unification ?

I've heard quite often Southerners stating that unification would be more trouble than its worth and they are happy the way it is and they dont want the trouble that unification will bring 

Yes why would they want the DUP in the their Parliament when we barely want them in ours. 

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

They were? I must have missed that bit.

Mr Mitchell said the European Union played a part in thawing relations between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom which enabled the Northern Ireland peace process and was central to the Good Friday Agreement.

"I don't think the European Union was essential in the [Good Friday Agreement] talks themselves, but I believe the talks would never have occurred had there not been a European Union."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42412972

 

When the EU received the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize, Northern Ireland’s peace process undoubtedly influenced the decision. EU policymakers were supportive of both civil society activists and programme managers throughout the worst days of “The Troubles”, when what was to become the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement seemed utopian.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/03/we-helped-negotiate-good-friday-agreement-we-cannot-allow-brexit-destroy-it

[beautifulthailand99]

Could I take this opportunity to totally and unreservedly condemn this cowardly attack on a Conservative Brexit supporter offices. If I lived in South Warwickshire I would put the bay tree back in the pot and remove the sticker. Special Branch should get involved. That bay tree should have remained in the pot where it was no doubt quite happy. There are also ugly rumours of an empty milkshake cup left on the step as a chilling warning. I note that the Tories are trying to finger the LibDems for this in their hashtag call out if true then this is a stark warning of the social disorder alienated libdems are capable of. First they came for the gnomes and pot plants.....

 

 

[beautifulthailand99]

5 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Mr Mitchell said the European Union played a part in thawing relations between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom which enabled the Northern Ireland peace process and was central to the Good Friday Agreement.

"I don't think the European Union was essential in the [Good Friday Agreement] talks themselves, but I believe the talks would never have occurred had there not been a European Union."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42412972

 

When the EU received the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize, Northern Ireland’s peace process undoubtedly influenced the decision. EU policymakers were supportive of both civil society activists and programme managers throughout the worst days of “The Troubles”, when what was to become the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement seemed utopian.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/03/we-helped-negotiate-good-friday-agreement-we-cannot-allow-brexit-destroy-it

[sandyf]

4 hours ago, NanLaew said:

But it doesn't matter as that would no longer be the EU's problem and solely a British problem

With the EU on one side of the border and the UK on the other, it is never going to be solely a British problem.

 

[sandyf]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Would EIRE want unification ?

I've heard quite often Southerners stating that unification would be more trouble than its worth and they are happy the way it is and they dont want the trouble that unification will bring 

"the way it is" - is going to change, just waiting to see how.

When things change, points of view also tend to.

[sanemax]

17 minutes ago, sandyf said:

"the way it is" - is going to change, just waiting to see how.

When things change, points of view also tend to.

What is going to change ?

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

It might surprise you, but that is false. They are entrusted, most of all, in to decide what's best for the country they serve - i.e. 65 million people, not a minority 17 million. That's political democracy in action in the UK.

 

As for 'the will of the people' this is the 17 million minority who voted to leave the EU in 2016. As far as today's MPS are concerned, what a 17 million minority want is not a democratic rationale in 2019. 

 

 

So all those MP's that get all pontifical on television interviews and say they are simply there to serve the needs of their constituents ARE LYING?

 

I am soooo gutted.

 

What are you on about 65 million people? Only THOSE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE can vote; a little over 46 million of them, not all 65 million. Sheesh!

 

When you consider that only about 33.5 million of them bothered to tick a box in 2016, your paltry 17 million is STILL the majority. Take you shoes and socks off if you don't trust you fingers to do the arithmetic.

 

But I'm sure this was all cleared up many, many, MANY years ago.

 

So why do Remainers persist in their straw clutching?

 

I mean beyond 'because they can'?

 

 

 

 

[sandyf]

18 minutes ago, sanemax said:

What is going to change ?

Can't believe you actually asked that.

Personally I would hope nothing but not much chance of that.

[NanLaew]

46 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Mr Mitchell said the European Union played a part in thawing relations between the Republic of Ireland and the United Kingdom which enabled the Northern Ireland peace process and was central to the Good Friday Agreement.

"I don't think the European Union was essential in the [Good Friday Agreement] talks themselves, but I believe the talks would never have occurred had there not been a European Union."

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-northern-ireland-42412972

 

When the EU received the 2012 Nobel Peace Prize, Northern Ireland’s peace process undoubtedly influenced the decision. EU policymakers were supportive of both civil society activists and programme managers throughout the worst days of “The Troubles”, when what was to become the Belfast/Good Friday Agreement seemed utopian.

https://www.newstatesman.com/2018/03/we-helped-negotiate-good-friday-agreement-we-cannot-allow-brexit-destroy-it

And there was me thinking it was all enabled by Bill Clinton and Senator Mitchell.

 

Reading your BBC article, Mitchell does indeed say, "The Good Friday Agreement would never have happened without the European Union, ..."

 

But speaking to BBC's Talkback, he also goes on to say, "Brexit was a mistake..."

 

Now that fits the Remainers narrative masterfully especially coming up a year and a half after the Brexit vote and only 6 months after Theresa May's catastrophic snap election threw a lifeline to the Remainers.

 

Give him his due he does also say, "...the vote to leave the EU must be respected."

 

But he's tainted goods. Sorry.

[beautifulthailand99]

As ever Conservative Home stripped of rhetoric lays out the hurdles that Johnson has to overcome and quickly...

 

Then there is the prospect of vote on a second EU referendum next weekend – which Keir Starmer and Tory Remainers alike will push for.
Our best guess is that the numbers will not be there for a referendum in the event of a deal, but could be if there is No Deal.  How many of the 21 want to stop a No Deal Brexit – and how many to stop Brexit altogether? A referendum vote next weekend would tell us.

 

Whether there’s an extension or not, Johnson will need the DUP, the Spartans, some of the 21 and some Labour MPs not only for any votes next weekend, but for those on any Bill which seeks to implement his deal.  It isn’t just next Saturday that could be a nightmare for the Conservative Whips.

 

https://www.conservativehome.com/thetorydiary/2019/10/ten-hurdles-that-johnson-must-leap-even-if-a-deal-is-agreed-this-week.html

[SheungWan]

So all those MP's that get all pontifical on television interviews and say they are simply there to serve the needs of their constituents ARE LYING?
 
I am soooo gutted.
 
What are you on about 65 million people? Only THOSE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE can vote; a little over 46 million of them, not all 65 million. Sheesh!
 
When you consider that only about 33.5 million of them bothered to tick a box in 2016, your paltry 17 million is STILL the majority. Take you shoes and socks off if you don't trust you fingers to do the arithmetic.
 
But I'm sure this was all cleared up many, many, MANY years ago.
 
So why do Remainers persist in their straw clutching?
 
I mean beyond 'because they can'?
 
 
 
 

What counts is the voting in Parliament. Hard Brexiteer moaning on the sidelines notwithstanding.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[beautifulthailand99]

Farage live on LBC now saying biggest fear now is Parliament votes for deal attached to referendum. Which he considers quite possible. 

 

Swinson backing  , Labour to whip ongoing talks with Nats and Indies......

 

Farage saying BP will boycott any such ref. 

[Rookiescot]

6 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Farage live on LBC now saying biggest fear now is Parliament votes for deal attached to referendum. Which he considers quite possible. 

Oh dear God yes. Please make this happen.

The gammonplosion would be a joy to behold.

[beautifulthailand99]

17 minutes ago, Rookiescot said:

Oh dear God yes. Please make this happen.

The gammonplosion would be a joy to behold.

It is the only logical remain ++ route forward anymore and one which clips Johnson's wings. One problem is SNP may worry that remaining may stymie any indyref2 - Corbyn would probably have to offer that to get them onboard. Leave Labour candidates can offer it up as Brexit option given back to the people. If Cons ultimately accept a successful referendum vote then Farage will go full out to target Cons at election. 

[Rookiescot]

12 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

It is the only logical remain ++ route forward anymore and one which clips Johnson's wings. One problem is SNP may worry that remaining may stymie any indyref2 - Corbyn would probably have to offer that to get them onboard. Leave Labour candidates can offer it up as Brexit option given back to the people. If Cons ultimately accept a successful referendum vote then Farage will go full out to target Cons at election. 

Cant argue with any of that except to say the SNP will vote for anything which will cancel Brexit. They have been utterly consistent in that line.

If Brexit is cancelled and still no section 30 order to allow another indyref then the Scottish government will take it to the EU courts arguing that it is the right of any country to determine its own destiny.

So stop Brexit then become independent anyway. Dont think there will be the same resistance to Scotland going independent as there was the last time. Farrage will probably start a campaign to get us thrown out of the UK ???? 

[SheungWan]

Farage live on LBC now saying biggest fear now is Parliament votes for deal attached to referendum. Which he considers quite possible. 
 
Swinson backing  , Labour to whip ongoing talks with Nats and Indies......
 
Farage saying BP will boycott any such ref. 

The Hard Brexiteers are neither interested in a deal or remain. Off the cliff only.

Sent from my SM-N935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[elliss]

20 hours ago, sanemax said:

You're nearly old enough to be my dad

 

     Links ?.  Downloads accepted , in good faith . 555 

 

     Bttopic ,   Plan B,  aka as plan Boris ,  will be rejected ,  by our elected informed, UK Parliament members...

      OCT 31 ,    mark it in your diary .  brexiteers welcome .

          

 

 

[stephenterry]

17 hours ago, NanLaew said:

So all those MP's that get all pontifical on television interviews and say they are simply there to serve the needs of their constituents ARE LYING?

 

I am soooo gutted.

 

What are you on about 65 million people? Only THOSE ELIGIBLE TO VOTE can vote; a little over 46 million of them, not all 65 million. Sheesh!

 

When you consider that only about 33.5 million of them bothered to tick a box in 2016, your paltry 17 million is STILL the majority. Take you shoes and socks off if you don't trust you fingers to do the arithmetic.

 

But I'm sure this was all cleared up many, many, MANY years ago.

 

So why do Remainers persist in their straw clutching?

 

I mean beyond 'because they can'?

 

 

 

 

A failure to understand what's best for Britain. Last time I looked, there are c.65 million people in the UK. The MPs serve the needs of their constituents  - that means ALL of them, whether they voted or not, and certainly not just pandering to a minority whether it's leavers or remainers.

 

In case you don't realise, their constituents have more important domestic issues that they're concerned about, like loss of jobs, medical care, pension entitlements, benefits, and government austerity programmes, not some ideological folly which hasn't materially affected them at all - apart from now having to pay for it in the future.   

 

 

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, NanLaew said:

And there was me thinking it was all enabled by Bill Clinton and Senator Mitchell.

 

Reading your BBC article, Mitchell does indeed say, "The Good Friday Agreement would never have happened without the European Union, ..."

 

But speaking to BBC's Talkback, he also goes on to say, "Brexit was a mistake..."

 

Now that fits the Remainers narrative masterfully especially coming up a year and a half after the Brexit vote and only 6 months after Theresa May's catastrophic snap election threw a lifeline to the Remainers.

 

Give him his due he does also say, "...the vote to leave the EU must be respected."

 

But he's tainted goods. Sorry.

Well you are consistent, analyse a small piece of text and use it as a distraction. Everything else becomes insignificant.

Really surprised you didn't make out the Nobel Peace Prize was a mistake, after all according to the brexiteer the EU is evil personified.

 

[sandyf]

51 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

In case you don't realise, their constituents have more important domestic issues that they're concerned about, like loss of jobs, medical care, pension entitlements, benefits, and government austerity programmes, not some ideological folly which hasn't materially affected them at all - apart from now having to pay for it in the future.   

 

Exactly. This is why a GE can never be used as the answer to the brexit question, would only create an even more contentious result.