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I was given a warning by an IO at DMK - Thoughts?


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Hey all, 

 

Here's the run-down and my entry history. I'd appreciate your thoughts on how to proceed. 

 

Warning at DMK Immigration

  • I spent about 5-7 minutes at the counter. No one else was in line since it was 1:30 am and I was in the domestic transfer line. 
  • The officer was male. 
  • Original point of departure was the US, where I'd been for 5 weeks, but I'd just flown from Tokyo. 
  • The IO flipped through my passport extensively and spent quite a bit of time looking at data in the computer. 
  • I was asked to show a return flight ticket out of Thailand. When I gave it to him, he spent several minutes typing in the computer and glancing at my booking confirmation. 
  • I was in possession of a 60 day SETV, which I'd gotten from the embassy in Los Angeles. 
  • He asked if I was alone and what I was doing in Thailand. I replied that I'm traveliing and working, and showed him proof of income (invoices) for my online business. He did not ask to see these. 

 

At the end of the questioning, he let me in, but I was told that next time I need to allow 1 to 2 months between tourist visas if I'm staying long-term. 

 

Visa and exempt history

  • 10/18: Visa exempt by air
  • 11/18: Visa exempt by air
  • 12/18: Visa exempt by land
  • 03/19: Tourist visa from US
  • 07/19: Visa exempt by air
  • 10/19: Tourist visa from US

Questions

  1. Will I have any trouble getting a 30-day extension in Chiang Mai? Do you think notes were entered on my record that I have an onward flight booked (that I may not use if I decide to extend)? 
  2. Should I cross over by land next time, with a tourist visa in-hand? 
  3. Related to #2, I've only used (1) of my (2) land border exempt crossings for 2019. I was thinking about using my second one right before the new year. Think this is a good idea given my history and the warning?

 

Thanks for all of your help! 

Edited by Onestepforward
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15 minutes ago, Onestepforward said:

It could very well be. Am considering an ED visa at this point. 

A common strategy that Consulates are on to. You may (or may not) get the first one but don’t count on a second. Why are they cracking down? Because people are abusing the visa process. If you go for an ED at least do so with the intention of actually wanting to study something. 

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Actually OP declared he was working online officially its work it negates the TV
OP also fails to show 2019 land crossing  12/18 doesnt count clock resets Jan of each year
he does not say if he has extended any visas 
so he will be 5 months possibly more at the end of current visa 
That is cutting it close to the 180 days 

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3 minutes ago, Martyp said:

A common strategy that Consulates are on to. You may (or may not) get the first one but don’t count on a second. Why are they cracking down? Because people are abusing the visa process. If you go for an ED at least do so with the intention of actually wanting to study something. 

Or dodge something.....????

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A common strategy that Consulates are on to. You may (or may not) get the first one but don’t count on a second. Why are they cracking down? Because people are abusing the visa process. If you go for an ED at least do so with the intention of actually wanting to study something. 

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, if people are showing up for classes and doing what they need to do, does it really matter 'why' they're enrolled? Sure, I would love to learn Thai. And yes, my intention would be to stay longer in the country legitimately. Do they have to be mutually exclusive? The only way I would classify it as abuse is if people sign up for the visa and then never show up for class and follow the outlined procedure. 

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1 hour ago, andy72 said:

Actually OP declared he was working online officially its work it negates the TV
OP also fails to show 2019 land crossing  12/18 doesnt count clock resets Jan of each year
he does not say if he has extended any visas 
so he will be 5 months possibly more at the end of current visa 
That is cutting it close to the 180 days 

Oops, my mistake. In looking further, I haven't used either of my (2) land border exempts this year. The last was in December of 2018.

 

54 minutes ago, Martyp said:

To work in Thailand you need a work permit. You cannot (officially) work inside Thailand as a digital nomad. If you are physically inside Thailand it doesn’t matter if your business in outside Thailand. Of course it is difficult to catch someone working as a nomad but it probably isn’t wise to tell an IO that you are coming to travel and work.

Ah, I didn't realize. I thought they were really only interested in catching people who were working illegaly in a job physically located in Thailand. I've read lots of reports of people who were denied entry under that suspicion., thus my willingness to show that I'm not taking a job from a Thai person. 

Edited by Onestepforward
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1 minute ago, Onestepforward said:

I understand what you're saying, but at the same time, if people are showing up for classes and doing what they need to do, does it really matter 'why' they're enrolled? Sure, I would love to learn Thai. And yes, my intention would be to stay longer in the country legitimately. Do they have to be mutually exclusive? The only way I would classify it as abuse is if people sign up for the visa and then never show up for class and follow the outlined procedure. 

I will give you the benefit of the doubt.

 

BTW. If you are under 50 years old and you are planning to stay long term the research your limited options. You might consider the Elite visa program. 

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3 minutes ago, Onestepforward said:

For what reason? 

My guess is because it's a gray area. Some think it's illegal but evidence seems to show the opposite. There is also some hate coming from peoples who live on a short budget and worked all their life for a pension while some young people make good money staying anywhere they want with a very flexible schedule.

 

Since I was a teenager my step father kept telling there is no future in computers and also that I can't spend my life travelling. He thought the only valid work has to give you sweat at least 40h a week. 

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1 hour ago, Martyp said:

You cannot (officially) work inside Thailand as a digital nomad. If you are physically inside Thailand it doesn’t matter if your business in outside Thailand.

When we look at what immigration police and department of employment actually did in the past, then we see that what you say is wrong. Currently they don't consider working online as working in Thailand, even if the person is physically located in Thailand.

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14 minutes ago, jackdd said:

When we look at what immigration police and department of employment actually did in the past, then we see that what you say is wrong. Currently they don't consider working online as working in Thailand, even if the person is physically located in Thailand.

What do you mean in the past? You mean last week or 5 years ago? Anyway, he can easily find out by explaining it to IO officers during his frequent visits, telling them he is here to work and showing them his business invoices. 

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6 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

jealousy to start with.  imagine how you look to someone who works 12 hours a day to make 8 dollars?

Agree. At my condo I can see many sour expat faces when they see me sometimes working online outside in the condo complex (I'm not a digital nomad but work mostly out of office from all around the world.) I see them going to work at 7 AM and coming back 12 hours later, through the hellish traffic of BKK, and with a teacher's salary that is hard to live on. Some older ones just don't get the concept of remote work. 

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24 minutes ago, jackdd said:

When we look at what immigration police and department of employment actually did in the past, then we see that what you say is wrong. Currently they don't consider working online as working in Thailand, even if the person is physically located in Thailand.

I thought this was the current climate as well, though I admit I was taking unnecessary risk in forfeiting that I worked online. I just didn't want to be accused of working illegally in a job physically located in Thailand. I know that DMK shakes down more than it's fair share of people. 

 

13 minutes ago, DEKEM said:

jealousy to start with.  imagine how you look to someone who works 12 hours a day to make 8 dollars?

I get it, but it seems like a silly thing to hold against people in a public forum. 

 

7 minutes ago, Martyp said:

What do you mean in the past? You mean last week or 5 years ago? Anyway, he can easily find out by explaining it to IO officers during his frequent visits, telling them he is here to work and showing them his business invoices. 

I wasn't denied entry, so it seems that this particular IO officer didn't see anything wrong with the fact that I was working online while in Thailand. That being said, I think it's pretty clear that IO officers tend to run with their own rules at times. 

Edited by Onestepforward
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I don't understand any hate perhaps jealous though work is work whatever way you look at it
But a while back they were looking at Nomads as being tax dodgers because you are in Thailand Working.
Would get a visa extension  rather than a border run Takes you to sometime in January

This gives you 90 days to decide what you want from Thailand  in terms of long term staying 
and that;s your 180 days for 2019 

Edited by andy72
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2 hours ago, Onestepforward said:

Lucky in what sense? I provided invoices for my online business. Could you clarify? 

The people who work online usually advise you to keep your mouth shut.

Because it is a gray area. I know you are working for a company overseas and for for a Thai company or Thai clients, but still you are "working in Thailand" depending on how interprets it. This is not allowed without a work permit. So whenever a IO asks whether you work you should deny it.

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16 minutes ago, Martyp said:

I’m retired. I already put my time in and have no problem with digital nomads. I wish there was a visa or work permit for them. At least they are working for a living. Why anyone would be jealous of DN is beyond me. It’s work like any work.

Why not an Elite then? 

 

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