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I was given a warning by an IO at DMK - Thoughts?


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8 hours ago, Martyp said:

To work in Thailand you need a work permit. You cannot (officially) work inside Thailand as a digital nomad. If you are physically inside Thailand it doesn’t matter if your business in outside Thailand. Of course it is difficult to catch someone working as a nomad but it probably isn’t wise to tell an IO that you are coming to travel and work.

yes, no need give info that u are working,,  bad move..

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Just now, Seeall said:

yes, no need give info that u are working,,  bad move..

 

Just now, Seeall said:

yes, no need give info that u are working,,  bad move..

you did not need to say that.. are you trying to spoil that for the rest of us?  There is not much black and white with who you are dealing with, half the time they dont know.. its the wild east all grey area and dealing with the mentality and understanding of a toddler..

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7 hours ago, Onestepforward said:

... The only way I would classify it as abuse is if people sign up for the visa and then never show up for class and follow the outlined procedure. 

How about the ones that front up on SETV's but have a Thai bank account, rent an apartment and own a car or motorbike?

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5 hours ago, BritManToo said:

National Insurance payments (British pension) for offshore workers in the Uk is 2.50 GBP/week.

You can set it up to automatically be debited from your bank account, or pay a year at a time, or in arrears up to 5 years. 

Most Euro countries have similar arrangements.

 

Yes, also in the US you pay social security as a self employed person ...Thai Dream went on a rampage of misinformation and nonsense.

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Yes, also in the US you pay social security as a self employed person ...Thai Dream went on a rampage of misinformation and nonsense.
Lots of people barely make any money for real contribution (15% for FICA) and many people conviniently lie on their taxes when self employed if one does not get 1099 Misc like digital nomads selling on Amazon, selling how to become digital nomads dream, etc. For example, PayPal will never report your income received for item slave on 1099. Many British and European companies also don't report. At one time I was earning 6000USD/month but my 1099Misc was only around 1200. Even if they report 100%, nomads are tempted to take a lots of business deduction. Bottom lime, they reduce their income and pay very little in income taxes. 15% of that is very little money for FICA contribution.

Sent from my Hi9plus using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

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15 hours ago, jackdd said:

IOs are not actively looking for people working online, would be easy to find many of them in the various co working spaces across the country.

Would make for some nice photos for the IOs, when they deport these law breaking foreigners, wouldn't it? (if they were breaking the law...)

 

In the last years there was afaik not any credible news where somebody who was just doing some remote work for a foreign business was deported for this. When people working online were caught in some raid in the past years the people were let go, and not charged for working illegally.

IO decide over who gets in the country. It isn't their job to look for illegal workers in the country. They are breaking several laws: not the right visa, no work permit while working and not paying tax. Stop fooling yourself and others.

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It is a good point not to mention a rented condo, bank account etc.

On the arrival form last time I entered visa exempt I specified the Condo name without "Condo" at the end. It is still the correct name, address etc. but no need to make them angry with the word condo. This way it could as well be a hotel.

Perhaps does not make a difference in any way because of the TM30 registered address, just do not want to see the officer "condo" when I entered visa-exempt.

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11 minutes ago, cerox said:

It is a good point not to mention a rented condo, bank account etc.

On the arrival form last time I entered visa exempt I specified the Condo name without "Condo" at the end. It is still the correct name, address etc. but no need to make them angry with the word condo. This way it could as well be a hotel.

Perhaps does not make a difference in any way because of the TM30 registered address, just do not want to see the officer "condo" when I entered visa-exempt.

 

Unnecessary with TM6 being scrapped.

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7 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

I don't disagree with what Thai Dream has written, except his views on healthcare. However, he's free to express his views honestly. Not everyone agrees with your views and should not be put down others for expressing them. If you simply shut down and refuse to listen to opposing views how can you listen. 

Using terms like "rampage of misinformation and nonsense" shows the narrowness of thoughts. 

 

Fred in a few posts, ThaiDream made several factual mistakes, they are not opinions.  Regarding SS and taxes and things, I read it several hours ago and I don’t feel like going over it again, he blatantly contradicted himself within the post, which is why I used the word nonsense ...as in ...it made no sense.  

 

Thank you for your efforts to control me.  I notice you do that often with people.

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16 hours ago, amykat said:

Yes, also in the US you pay social security as a self employed person ...Thai Dream went on a rampage of misinformation and nonsense.

So you are saying that all people working on line in Thailand are paying taxes to their home country and if American they are registered as being self employed and their  company is also providing benefits.  Not happening

 

Self employed people in the US have their business registered with the Government and have an ID number issued.  They are required to pay Social Security and Medicare  taxes -double the amount that is normally split  between a worker and an employer.  In addition- they are required to pay  Federal, State and local taxes.

 

Hardly misinformation- and I don't go on rampages- I simply tell it like it is.  If American- You may want to check the IRS Regulations as well as the US Social Security Administration.

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6 hours ago, FredGallaher said:

Just trying to keep an open mind, but never control.

If I made factual mistakes- you can certainly point them out. However as I have already stated- I seriously doubt that on line working Americans- are paying into the Social Security System at double the rate which is required as self employed business people and also into the medicare system.  They are normally listed as contractors and receive a 1099 for which lists the amount they make and which is subject to payment of federal state and local taxes .  Many compamies don't even provide the 1099s

 

Frankly, I could care less whether they are on line people or not or their tax status- My point being that if they are not paying anything into the Social Security system when they come of retirement age they will not be getting a pension or medicare- they will and are wasting their best earning years trying to 'live the dream' when they could be getting a university education  and/or working for an established company that pays  much more than they can make on line.

 

However, at the end of the day- it is their choice.  They , like us all, have to live with the consequences of their actions.

 

 

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5 hours ago, Thaidream said:

So you are saying that all people working on line in Thailand are paying taxes to their home country and if American they are registered as being self employed and their  company is also providing benefits.  Not happening

 

Self employed people in the US have their business registered with the Government and have an ID number issued.  They are required to pay Social Security and Medicare  taxes -double the amount that is normally split  between a worker and an employer.  In addition- they are required to pay  Federal, State and local taxes.

 

Hardly misinformation- and I don't go on rampages- I simply tell it like it is.  If American- You may want to check the IRS Regulations as well as the US Social Security Administration.

Here we go, I didn’t want to bother going back and quoting your old posts with contradictions, and wrong information.  I am not on a computer so that is more difficult.  But now you are adding things I don’t remember being in the discussion at all, such as are they “paying benefits”.  I thought we were talking about digital nomads which I see as freelance work, more or less.  Not people with employees.  That takes everything in a whole different direction doesn’t it?  

 

You tend to write things in a way that makes the meaning incorrect ...like above, the way you talk about SS and Medicare taxes, your statement says that a self employed person must pay double the amount that is paid by the employer and employee normally.  I know I think what you mean, but that is not what you wrote.  Maybe you are not American and truly didn’t understand ....I’m not sure??  But if you are self employed you pay your employee share as normal, and you pay the employer share, since you are also the employer ...making that amount double what it was when you were only an employee of a company, since that tax is split equally.   But you don’t pay double that total amount.

 

Then your your comment about paying Federal and State taxes ...well all 

Americans have to pay Federal taxes no matter where they live, so it doesn’t matter a lot what way they are doing business or getting their money, for a small guy working alone, he is not a corporation.  He doesn’t have to pay state tax if he is not a legal resident of any state.  He doesn’t owe sales tax, he is not selling things. 

 

Just because people you work with don’t 1099 you doesn’t mean you are not responsible to report your income.  If they are all paying their taxes or not, I don’t know but many business owners and freelancers who live in the US cheat like hell so what is the difference??  You don’t have to register to be a freelance worker.

 

I think one reason we had a lot of digital nomads, is because younger people could not find good jobs after 2008, some people who also got laid off from previously decent jobs, they took off to low cost of living areas, just like retirees, and decided to enjoy the time, see the world before they had a house and 3 kids, and they got by some lean years this way.  They may have used some benefits, some savings, done some work however they could, and passed five years on the road, good for them ....better than wasting away for minimum wage getting depressed and doing nothing important anyway.  Those jobs were not going to be paying a pension ...no jobs do anymore, if American they don’t get health insurance usually, get no BENEFITS ...many of you baby boomers had a great career situation that is not happening the same way these days.

 

I have a feeling you aren’t American and got a few facts off ...maybe ...the fact that you would even say providing benefits as if that is a legal right ...that is not an American thing ...getting paid is about the only legal right you have.

 

 

 

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9 hours ago, amykat said:

I have a feeling you aren’t American and got a few facts off ...maybe ...the fact that you would even say providing benefits as if that is a legal right ...that is not an American thing ...getting paid is about the only legal right you have.

I am  American and have worked both domestic and overseas for 50 years and I am quite familiar with the tax code and social Security.   I am already retired; live a quiet and decent life and wish no one harm.

 

Just to clarify- when I used the term paying double- it was meant to illustrate that a self emplyed person  pays around 15% for Social Security/Medicare while a person employed  as a worker in a company pays 7.65% for SS/Medicare- meaning the employer pays their share and the woker their share.

 

I will say it again- digital nomads mostly are  contractos and therefore receive a 1099 form- which is to be used to file US taxes and Americans owe taxes no matter where they are. Whether they folow the law is up to them.   They mostly receive no benefits like retirement or health and I do not beleive they can pay into the Social Security system and if they can- most do not do it.

 

The whple purpose of my post was not to discuss  US tax law but to warn those working online that unless they are indeed thinking about what will happen when they retire-and get into a situation where they are putting funds into the US Social Security Scheme they will not have a retirment.  People in the age group 20-50 would be better off getting a University Degree in an occupation that is saleable and then a Master's or techincal degree and  working for a company in the Top 50.  

 

I completely understand why a young person feels alienated for several reasons- I never really enjoyed working 12 hours per day every day; going off to places at the whim of my employer and sometimes  the hardship that i endured.  Howver- there is nothing easy -people pay their dues and there is no way around it.

 

Millenials want to live the dream because they rationilize they have no future and they are going to live life to the fullest right now.  Instead- they are selling their future for momentary gratification.   In the 50 years, I have been in and out of Thailand- I have  known 5 foreigners that have made a substantial living by staying in Thailand and the rest couldn't make it and eventually left; died; or ended up as alcoholics or addicts.

 

At the end of the day- I wish people well-  I would love to see more foreigners succeed; make an impact in Thailand and the World and show the Thai people what real success means.

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It’s all good to show invoices etc but next time don’t say you work. Just say you have an online business and show your income source like you did. Earning money from outside Thailand is legal while traveling 100%. Working isn’t unless it’s answering emails etc. I remember reading somewhere they switched law recently for short term tourists regarding that part making it legal.

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1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

I am  American and have worked both domestic and overseas for 50 years and I am quite familiar with the tax code and social Security.   I am already retired; live a quiet and decent life and wish no one harm.

 

Just to clarify- when I used the term paying double- it was meant to illustrate that a self emplyed person  pays around 15% for Social Security/Medicare while a person employed  as a worker in a company pays 7.65% for SS/Medicare- meaning the employer pays their share and the woker their share.

 

I will say it again- digital nomads mostly are  contractos and therefore receive a 1099 form- which is to be used to file US taxes and Americans owe taxes no matter where they are. Whether they folow the law is up to them.   They mostly receive no benefits like retirement or health and I do not beleive they can pay into the Social Security system and if they can- most do not do it.

 

The whple purpose of my post was not to discuss  US tax law but to warn those working online that unless they are indeed thinking about what will happen when they retire-and get into a situation where they are putting funds into the US Social Security Scheme they will not have a retirment.  People in the age group 20-50 would be better off getting a University Degree in an occupation that is saleable and then a Master's or techincal degree and  working for a company in the Top 50.  

 

I completely understand why a young person feels alienated for several reasons- I never really enjoyed working 12 hours per day every day; going off to places at the whim of my employer and sometimes  the hardship that i endured.  Howver- there is nothing easy -people pay their dues and there is no way around it.

 

Millenials want to live the dream because they rationilize they have no future and they are going to live life to the fullest right now.  Instead- they are selling their future for momentary gratification.   In the 50 years, I have been in and out of Thailand- I have  known 5 foreigners that have made a substantial living by staying in Thailand and the rest couldn't make it and eventually left; died; or ended up as alcoholics or addicts.

 

At the end of the day- I wish people well-  I would love to see more foreigners succeed; make an impact in Thailand and the World and show the Thai people what real success means.

Most yes. But Thailand is cheaper than US and some people pay their taxes. It’s easier to save a retirement here in that aspect.
 

Also I’ve only been in thailand for 3 years so my view is different but I’ve got friends who been here for 3-5 years (under 25) and they’re pretty stable. We still party like once every 1-4 weeks but nowadays even mostly thai clubs and have thai friends. Other than that they’re doing fine, one took his wife to England, another doesn’t drink nor party nowadays and only focuses on healthy stuff and is learning thai and getting a drive license here at same time he runs his business. The last one is fully focused on his business. Then again you right. Most of us move on. Like two of my friends moved back to us since then. Thing is Thailand is like a life phase, unless you end up having close friends or happen to be in a relationship there’s not much reason to stay here long term when you can move somewhere new and experience new things. 
 

In fact many better places to live than bkk in terms of respect. People here are really rude to forgeiners. But ye just pretend you don’t understand them I guess. ^ before anyone acuse that’s my own girlfriend who complained so many thai people are rude af to me. I notice it too. She was <deleted> about it. 

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On 10/11/2019 at 5:52 AM, Tayaout said:

There is a lot of hate toward online workers "digital nomad" on this forum. 

 

 

On 10/11/2019 at 7:15 AM, Onestepforward said:

For what reason? 

Envy? They want the same, but don't have the skills?

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On 10/13/2019 at 1:12 PM, Thaidream said:

People in the age group 20-50 would be better off getting a University Degree in an occupation that is saleable and then a Master's or techincal degree and  working for a company in the Top 50.  

People in the age group 20 to 30 will most likely see office and manual jobs disappear as AI/ robotics takes over most human occupations.

Jobs requiring human reasoning and empathy like nursing should be safe enough, for a generation at least.

IMO most of the people being born today will end up subsisting on a "living benefit" with zero hope of advancement.

Even fast food jobs will soon disappear, and a robot will be asking if you want fries with that.

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3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

People in the age group 20 to 30 will most likely see office and manual jobs disappear as AI/ robotics takes over most human occupations.

Jobs requiring human reasoning and empathy like nursing should be safe enough, for a generation at least.

IMO most of the people being born today will end up subsisting on a "living benefit" with zero hope of advancement.

Even fast food jobs will soon disappear, and a robot will be asking if you want fries with that.

I retired from an industrial automation job. Technology has always changed the nature of work. The idea, though, that office and manual work is going away any time soon is a fantasy. Just because you can automate something (and that is by no means certain) doesn’t mean you should automate something.

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