Elon Musk Brands Himself An ‘Idiot’ In Thai Cave Rescue Defamation Lawsuit

[sirineou]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

Vern reacted to Musk using the boys trapped in the cave to publicise his own business and turning the rescue into the Elon Musk rescue attempt

They all have their justifications  of why and how they reacted. 

[GroveHillWanderer]

9 hours ago, sanemax said:

Musk was quite insistent that Vern was guilty and he made the accusation numerous times and Musk suggested that he had evidence to back his claims up .

 This was a direct allegation, rather than just "tittle-tattle"

Don't forget that Musk also paid a convicted fraudster to dig up dirt on Unsworth and then, even though he knew the information wasn't verified, got the so-called 'investigator' to spread lies about Unsworth being a paedophile to the British press. For me, that's almost worse than making the original allegations.

[Odysseus123]

Yes the nefarious discombobulated tweetings (not to mention the insane ravings) must come as quite a shock to a society and culture whose sole criteria for success is money...

 

Or as George Clemenceau once put it.."America is the only country that I know of that went from barbarism to decadence without any intervening stages.."

 

The guy has no ballast.

[JamJar]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

I would consider all options and not insult those who try to help.

Though I don't condone Musk's reaction, I don't excuse Vern's action. IMO he started this whole thing.

 

Your post has graduated directly from the school playground. "He started it!" Ridiculous...

 

Why don't you and your facsimile, Musk, just stop digging?

[JamJar]

2 hours ago, sirineou said:

I would consider all options and not insult those who try to help.

Though I don't condone Musk's reaction, I don't excuse Vern's action. IMO he started this whole thing.

 

He considered it and obviously came to the conclusion that it was akin to a pile of steaming dung that needed to be swept away.

[Stargeezr]

This story is sooo last year, just like the cave rescue. How about some good stories for

this year, like that shiny steel rocket concept for mars.  Rah Rah.

Geezer

[Puccini]

On 10/12/2019 at 2:47 AM, pacovl46 said:

He literally begged Unsworth to sue him! So, now it’s time to cough up! 

More than begged. From what I have read on the Thaivisa news forum, Musk FORCED Unsworth to file the law suit by writing – on  Twitter, I believe – that the fact that Unsworth had not sued him was confirmation that Unsworth was a paedophile.

[ukrules]

We all know Elon Musk can be an idiot at times, that's not disputed.

 

It's time for him to pay up for his crazy ramblings on Twitter.

[sirineou]

4 minutes ago, ukrules said:

We all know Elon Musk can be an idiot at times, that's not disputed.

Who can't ?

 

4 minutes ago, ukrules said:

t's time for him to pay up for his crazy ramblings on Twitter.

we all pay for our idiocy why not him.

 

[Sheryl]

More than begged. From what I have read on the Thaivisa news forum, Musk FORCED Unsworth to file the law suit by writing – on  Twitter, I believe – that the fact that Unsworth had not sued him was confirmation that Unsworth was a paedophile.

Yes, he did.

And hired an investigstor to try to prove it (failing).

So much for the defense that "pedo" didn't mean "pedophile"

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[sanemax]

16 hours ago, Stargrazer9889 said:

This story is sooo last year, just like the cave rescue. How about some good stories for

this year, like that shiny steel rocket concept for mars.  Rah Rah.

Geezer

This story is about the current lawsuits happening now

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

On 10/11/2019 at 3:27 PM, FritsSikkink said:

He only admits it to get a lesser sentence.

 

The case in question is a civil defamation lawsuit being heard in federal court in the U.S.  There is no federal criminal defamation statute in the U.S., unlike Thailand where it can be pursued as a crime. Thus there will be no "sentence," only an eventual verdict in the civil case.

 

The only thing Musk will be on the hook for presumably is his money, and his already battered reputation.

 

[plachon]

On 10/13/2019 at 10:52 AM, Odysseus123 said:

Yes the nefarious discombobulated tweetings (not to mention the insane ravings) must come as quite a shock to a society and culture whose sole criteria for success is money...

 

Or as George Clemenceau once put it.."America is the only country that I know of that went from barbarism to decadence without any intervening stages.."

 

The guy has no ballast.

I would say that it is highly questionable proposition that the US has ever actually left the "barbarism" phase. The present POTUS tends to underline the doubt. 

[bigginhill]

On 10/12/2019 at 2:53 PM, monkfish said:

Nope no need to split hairs because he's not a diver simple as that.

He had mapped the caves, the people that actually dived had been there shortly before, known Vern. So when the disaster struck he called them and having mapped the caves could help organise the rescue. He was essential, he knew the formation of the caves, he knew specialist divers, that I guess must be less than a handful in the world, who in turn knew an anesthesist that could dive in the these conditions. He was fundamental. 

The map of the inside of the cave clearly showed that a rigid tube was not going to go up over, down, and round obstacles. 

I hope he gets more than asked and something can be donated to the memory and family of the Thai diver who tragicaly died. 

[canopy]

8 hours ago, bigginhill said:

The map of the inside of the cave clearly showed that a rigid tube was not going to go up over, down, and round obstacles. 

Most ridiculous post in the world. AND JUST WHO EXACTLY SAID IT WOULD? Elon certainly knew that made subs for each area of the cave tuned to the unique requirements he received from the cave experts in Thailand. The below sub was made for the area known as the "choke point". Absolutely phenomenal work to assemble the experts, design, develop, test, and deliver such amazing and highly useful technology to Thailand in such record time. Hats off to everyone involved.

 

 

[Damrongsak]

Musk is a a brilliant creep who needs to be slapped upside the head.  Really creepy guy. 

[monkfish]

Vernon Unsworth should also be punished for what he said on CNN as well it was very ugly.

Musk tried to help the trapped boys in what way he could.
He sent engineers to help not only about building subs but surveying, drilling, pumping, electric etc.
Then Unsworth goes on CNN a day after the rescue and tells the World Musks efforts were nothing but a Publicity Stunt!
That was a disgusting and if I was Musk I would also have been Upset and Angry about it.
Why couldn't they all just shake hands and congratulate each other on a successful joint effort?
But no Unsworth wanted all the limelight well now he's got it.
P.s just wondering if what Unsworth said on CNN wasn't meant to bait Musk?
 

[canopy]

Unsorth's anger at Musk wasn't just that bizarre outburst on CNN where he had nothing at all to say about the rescue other than to insult Elon in front of millions of people. Unsworth was also furious when Elon rolled up his sleeves and personally went to Thailand and to the cave to help with the rescue should he be called upon. Vern was so furious by this that he blurted to everyone that Elon was told to leave quickly. What??? Vern also said things that are not true about the submarine. While everyone else was relieved and overjoyed after the rescue, this fellow just couldn't keep his vile mouth shut. It's not clear what caused Vern to become so unhinged and obsessed about Elon, spouting all these lines of slander. No one else was doing this. Just look at that cheeky grin. He's just so proud of himself for what he said.

 

 

[gamini]

On 10/11/2019 at 4:23 PM, JamJar said:

 

What is it that irks you about him being branded as a diver? 

Which descriptor would you like?

A fouled mouth lowlife angry at Musk taking away his limelight.  Musk spend a lot of time and money to try and help the cave boys. People accuse Musk of publicity seeking. This is nonsense since he is one of the most talked about and written about personalities in the world. He doesn't need any publicity.
I personally think that his mini submarine would have worked out with a little modification and perhaps been even safer than the method that was actually used. Of course this remark I am making will no doubt ask me who I am to make these assumptions. I have been a commercial diving consultant and more than qualified than anybody in this country. And incidentally the first person to dive in Thailand in 1963. I could go on and on. However I consider that the divers who were involved were very brave and I did a wonderful job. And all the people who were involved and it made me sick when people like Vernon behaved in such lowlife manner. I wouldn't have used the remark that Musk made regarding his insults, I might have said something worse.

[gamini]

Unsworth is a fouled mouth lowlife, angry at Musk taking away his limelight.  Musk spend a lot of time and money to try and help the cave boys. People accuse Musk of publicity seeking. This is nonsense since he is one of the most talked about and written about personalities in the world. He doesn't need any publicity.
I personally think that his mini submarine would have worked out with a little modification and perhaps been even safer than the method that was actually used. Of course this remark I am making will no doubt ask me who I am to make these assumptions. I have been a commercial diving consultant and more than qualified than anybody in this country. And incidentally the first person to dive in Thailand in 1963. I could go on and on. However I consider that the divers who were involved were very brave and I did a wonderful job. And all the people who were involved and it made me angry when people like Unsworth behaved in such lowlife manner. I wouldn't have used the remark that Musk made regarding his insults, I might have said something worse.

[GroveHillWanderer]

17 hours ago, gamini said:

Unsworth is a fouled mouth lowlife, angry at Musk taking away his limelight.  Musk spend a lot of time and money to try and help the cave boys. People accuse Musk of publicity seeking. This is nonsense since he is one of the most talked about and written about personalities in the world. He doesn't need any publicity.

Where's your evidence of him being foul-mouthed? What foul language have you seen or heard him use? Yes, he used a rude expression but there was no foul language in it. 

 

I also don't see any evidence of Unsworth seeking the limelight. He pretty much stayed out of public view throughout the rescue. After it was over, CNN interviewed him once, that's it.

 

Incidentally, his knowledge of the cave system, including providing the best, most accurate map of the caves and recommending calling in the expert cave divers Rick Stanton and John Volanthen who then led the successful diving operations, was absolutely crucial to the success of the rescue. On the other hand Musk's efforts, even if well-intentioned, contributed nothing.

[TKDfella]

Anyone here know some FACTS concerning other divers? Did anyone else complain about E.M. or was it just the one diver?

[sanemax]

22 hours ago, gamini said:

A fouled mouth lowlife angry at Musk taking away his limelight.  Musk spend a lot of time and money to try and help the cave boys. People accuse Musk of publicity seeking. This is nonsense since he is one of the most talked about and written about personalities in the world.

He is now, but before this episode, I had never heard of Musk .

Musk used the rescue to publicise his various companies and how good his drilling machine was .............and that his drilling machine is available for hire commercially  

[billd766]

On 10/15/2019 at 6:49 AM, canopy said:

Most ridiculous post in the world. AND JUST WHO EXACTLY SAID IT WOULD? Elon certainly knew that made subs for each area of the cave tuned to the unique requirements he received from the cave experts in Thailand. The below sub was made for the area known as the "choke point". Absolutely phenomenal work to assemble the experts, design, develop, test, and deliver such amazing and highly useful technology to Thailand in such record time. Hats off to everyone involved.

 

 

But it worked perfectly in an open swimming pool under well lit conditions, no adverse water flows, no bends or narrowing both vertically and horizontally, no rocks sticking out etc. In reality Vern was correct in dismissing it.

He has actually been in the caves and mapped them and has a ton of practical experience as a speleologist though probably not as a cave diver. As he spent a fair amount of time in the UK he most probably knew a lot of of cave divers, certainly well enough to know who to contact.

He also knew that to get to the boys required a good bit of diving experience which he doesn't have. Marry the two teams together and you get knowledge and experience from both sides.

Then along came Musk with no knowledge or skills of anything to do with caving and I can do better than any them.

 

Each to their own trade and hobby. Musk was clearly well out of his depth here (pun intended).

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speleology

Speleology is the scientific study of caves and other karst features, as well as their make-up, structure, physical properties, history, life forms, and the processes by which they form (speleogenesis) and change over time (speleomorphology). The term speleology is also sometimes applied to the recreational activity of exploring caves, but this is more properly known as caving or potholing, or (not usually by participants) by the uncommon American term spelunking. Speleology and caving are often connected, as the physical skills required for in situ study are the same.

Speleology is a cross-disciplinary field that combines the knowledge of chemistry, biology, geology, physics, meteorology, and cartography to develop portraits of caves as complex, evolving systems.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_diving

Cave diving is underwater diving in water-filled caves. It may be done as an extreme sport, a way of exploring flooded caves for scientific investigation, or for the search for and recovery of divers lost while diving for one of these reasons. The equipment used varies depending on the circumstances, and ranges from breath hold to surface supplied, but almost all cave diving is done using scuba equipment, often in specialised configurations with redundancies such as sidemount or backmounted twinset. Recreational cave diving is generally considered to be a type of technical diving due to the lack of a free surface during large parts of the dive, and often involves decompression.

In the United Kingdom, cave diving developed from the locally more common activity of caving. Its origins in the United States are more closely associated to recreational scuba diving. Compared to caving and scuba diving, there are relatively few practitioners of cave diving. This is due in part to the specialized equipment and skill sets required, and in part because of the high potential risks due to the specific environment.

 

[KneeDeep]

On 10/15/2019 at 4:59 AM, canopy said:

Unsorth's anger at Musk wasn't just that bizarre outburst on CNN where he had nothing at all to say about the rescue other than to insult Elon in front of millions of people. Unsworth was also furious when Elon rolled up his sleeves and personally went to Thailand and to the cave to help with the rescue should he be called upon. Vern was so furious by this that he blurted to everyone that Elon was told to leave quickly. What??? Vern also said things that are not true about the submarine. While everyone else was relieved and overjoyed after the rescue, this fellow just couldn't keep his vile mouth shut. It's not clear what caused Vern to become so unhinged and obsessed about Elon, spouting all these lines of slander. No one else was doing this. Just look at that cheeky grin. He's just so proud of himself for what he said.

 

 

 

He was asked about it;

 

 

[canopy]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

In reality Vern was correct in dismissing it.

Vern is not a diver and didn't "dismiss" it so I disagree with both points. Vern said "He can stick his submarine where it hurts". That's an insult, not a dismissal. That's fine for some knee slapping laughs with your buddies on a bar stool, not stepping up to a CNN microphone having just that one thing to say.

 

Now if you see the system the rescuers used to rescue the kids and someone told you Elon designed it you would all be laughing your asses off and explaining how it couldn't work. Why? Simply because the word Elon was in there. The system that was used was horribly fragile, tossed the kids around like rag dolls, had never been tested, no one knew if it would work, everyone knew the odds of making it work were low, the kids were tranquilized to the point the rescuers moving them didn't know if they were alive or corpses and the doctors had signed diplomatic immunity deals to cover themselves. Not a pretty situation but it was all they had to work with. There were a number of very close calls where they almost lost a kid, but by gosh they worked their hearts off and drew off their expertise and saved every single kid. Hats off. I have nothing but admiration for everyone's contribution, including Vern's, but NOT Vern's publicity stunt.

 

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

Then along came Musk with no knowledge or skills of anything to do with caving and I can do better than any them.

Not true. Elon from the very beginning reached out to the cave experts in Thailand and when they talked, Elon listened. The experts immediately dismissed Elon's original idea of a tube pumped up with air the kids could crawl through. So you could say the sub idea can be attributed to the cave experts, not Elon and the experts on the ground encouraged Elon to develop it because in their words, it might well get used. And the other thing is Elon did not seem to be the one personally designing, building, testing, or delivering these subs. Elon connected the dots and drew upon experts who did a phenomenal job. Some were from his companies, others from other companiies. Everyone when called upon was glad to help. There were no tesla logos waved around, no publicity stunts, just nuts and bolts practical products churned out to help save the kids as best as anyone could do.

 

[balo]

Bye Bye Musk ! 

[KneeDeep]

6 hours ago, canopy said:

Vern is not a diver and didn't "dismiss" it so I disagree with both points. Vern said "He can stick his submarine where it hurts". That's an insult, not a dismissal. That's fine for some knee slapping laughs with your buddies on a bar stool, not stepping up to a CNN microphone having just that one thing to say.

 

Now if you see the system the rescuers used to rescue the kids and someone told you Elon designed it you would all be laughing your asses off and explaining how it couldn't work. Why? Simply because the word Elon was in there. The system that was used was horribly fragile, tossed the kids around like rag dolls, had never been tested, no one knew if it would work, everyone knew the odds of making it work were low, the kids were tranquilized to the point the rescuers moving them didn't know if they were alive or corpses and the doctors had signed diplomatic immunity deals to cover themselves. Not a pretty situation but it was all they had to work with. There were a number of very close calls where they almost lost a kid, but by gosh they worked their hearts off and drew off their expertise and saved every single kid. Hats off. I have nothing but admiration for everyone's contribution, including Vern's, but NOT Vern's publicity stunt.

 

Not true. Elon from the very beginning reached out to the cave experts in Thailand and when they talked, Elon listened. The experts immediately dismissed Elon's original idea of a tube pumped up with air the kids could crawl through. So you could say the sub idea can be attributed to the cave experts, not Elon and the experts on the ground encouraged Elon to develop it because in their words, it might well get used. And the other thing is Elon did not seem to be the one personally designing, building, testing, or delivering these subs. Elon connected the dots and drew upon experts who did a phenomenal job. Some were from his companies, others from other companiies. Everyone when called upon was glad to help. There were no tesla logos waved around, no publicity stunts, just nuts and bolts practical products churned out to help save the kids as best as anyone could do.

 

 

You did not see him step up to a microphone and say only that one thing. You seem ok with just making things up to suit your position.

What we see, is an excerpt from an interview where he is asked for an opinion. 

 

As to whether he was right to say it in that manner, I think it was not. But it was his opinion.

It was impolite and hurtful no doubt. But there is a big difference between being someone impolite and someone knowingly telling lies in order to ruin someone's reputation.

Worse still, paying someone to dig up dirt in order to give substance to the lie and then daring the libelled to sue him. in other words, daring Vernon to prove that he was not a paedophile.

 

 

It's not about being the perfect human being. It's about understanding where to draw the line under the matter. Banter is ok. You have a little scuffle in the playground and then show respect to each other afterwards. 

Musk's action was akin to paying someone to attack your opponent in the playground, that's just not right. 

 

[canopy]

2 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

You seem ok with just making things up to suit your position.

I made nothing up. The interview was a man bashing Elon. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

2 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

What we see, is an excerpt from an interview where he is asked for an opinion. 

"He can stick his submarine where it hurts" is not an opinion, it is an insult. Again, that's fine for some knee slapping laughs with your buddies on a bar stool. And I wouldn't be so sure he just happened to be asked in an impromptu interview. Vern would have had many opportunities to talk to the press and declined. Choosing CNN and this single topic exclusively seems to indicate he deliberately sought the largest possible outlet for what he wanted to say and he wanted Elon and the world to hear this trash. And this is supported by the fact he had more insults and lies to throw at Elon publicly on later dates. In fact I have never heard Vern talk about anything other than his hatred of Elon. And that's a shame as Vern surely has a lot in there that would be fascinating to us. But all we get is this childish behavior.

 

2 hours ago, KneeDeep said:

But there is a big difference between being someone impolite and someone knowingly telling lies in order to ruin someone's reputation.

Couldn't agree more. Not being able to see or admit to yourself that Vern was telling lies to ruin Elon's reputation shows you are biased and it blinds you from the truth. I don't get this need for people to act like a cheering section at a boxing match egging the opponent and rooting for their guy. I on the other hand am capable of seeing both men did right, and both men did wrong and leave it at that so I find this behavior very strange.

 

[GroveHillWanderer]

2 hours ago, canopy said:

And this is supported by the fact he had more insults and lies to throw at Elon publicly on later dates. In fact I have never heard Vern talk about anything other than his hatred of Elon.

I can't claim that I necessarily have seen and read everything Unsworth has said about Musk but I have been following this story for a while and am not aware of any other insults or any "lies" spoken by Unsworth in regard to Musk.

 

Do you have a source for these other comments?